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@ Drmies: the talk page was recently archived. The case is too complex to simply again write about it, and after so many time it is quite tiresome. See the recent noticeboard discussion (and through it follow many discussions which were previously held in article's and user's talk pages, watch for possible archiving), and the two replies (almost the same, the first is a few days more recent draft) to the drafts Draft talk:Hunno-Bulgars and Draft talk:The origin of the Bulgars. It is not the matter of a simple dispute resolution, it includes many serious issues. Some of the info was previously properly included in related articles, but the intention of those socks is not WP:NPOV, but a total rewrite and revision of what is generally considered. It's not in a good faith. The sock-puppetry, which started in March 2015 by User:PavelStaykov and I testify almost a year, has a substantial history, and it needs to be properly handled for once and for all.-- Crovata ( talk) 16:22, 7 February 2016 (UTC)
Dude it's better to explain to the readers why you have deleted 15 books from the article (most of them published by Cambridge) and have replaced them with the writings of Peter Golden. WP is not an advertisement board of Peter Golden. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.254.219.92 ( talk) 17:16, 7 February 2016 (UTC)
And because you will not answer - I'll do it for you. You are the so called "official" vandal here on WP. Someone who has editor account from years and using it to impose his ideas. That's why you have deleted whole sections from many articles and replaced them with the speculations of a single scholar. What is the moral of this story? If you need reliable information on controversial topic - search it everywhere but not on WP - here are too many anonymous manafs as you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.254.219.92 ( talk) 17:44, 7 February 2016 (UTC) and this is my sign 359 988 744815
Anon, you should have realized that the approach you are trying to push on other editors leads nowhere. If you want to share your knowledge with the readers of WP you should accept basic WP policies, including WP:NOR and WP:civility. Instead of compulsively (maybe braindeadly) repeating your edits, would you summarize here what you want to present in the article? Borsoka ( talk) 06:50, 23 March 2016 (UTC)
I was right : the Hun's of Attila, the Kutrigurs were a tribe from the Little Yuezhi, who brought the name Hu, Hun to Europe. The rest of the little Yuezhi entered Europe in mid 6th century under the name Uar or Var, Avar and struck terror among the rest of the hunnogurs who took them for the historical Mongols, the Wuhuan �� (*Awar). The dicothomy Hun-Massgetae is actually Little Yuezhi - Great Yuezhi. I knew that the idea Yuezhi-Xiongnu composition of western Huns is impossible due to the history of these people. Check out here: http://www.worldlibrary.org/article/whebn0000310053/uar The little Yuezhi spent 3 centuries under Xiongnu rule, so after all it turns out that the idea European Huns = Xiongnu is not so wrong idea - indeed people who really were part of Xiongnu moved to Europe. Kutrigurs is from kutre in Bulgarian language, kutre is the "little finger" or the "pinkie" (you can check it with google translate - кутре - slavonic) -> hence small people. This coincide with the historical description that the Huns were short of stature. It would be interesting to find out information about the physical appearance of the little Yuezhi. ( I am sure it would be the same). Also, all this explains another very important question : when the Utigur Bulgars ( Unogundurs) founded Danube Bulgaria in 681 AD, the Kutrigurs didn't join them, but they stay with the Avars in Pannonia. This is strange, and suggests that Kutrigurs were the same as the Avars, and not Utigurs (as it is usually assumed). Only when the Avar khaganat was destroyed in the beginning of 9th century they moved to Bulgaria. All graves with skeletons with mongoloid admixture from Bulgar graves are dated to be from 9th century and none from 8th century. Another important score here. Also the burial orientation of the Kutrigurs is western, but it is northern for the Utigurs. But probably I am wasting my time, turkic editors will not allow such information to be presented on the articles. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.243.183.72 ( talk) 16:12, 7 April 2016 (UTC)
Dude, it's not polite to interrupt people's conversation. What you should understand is that someone might have some other motives than hatred toward Turks. For example - to know its own origin( based on sth more than mere similarity of 15 personal names and 3-4 administrative terms). I do not hate Turks, and I do not love them, and to be honest, I do not give a damn shit about them. Neither about Turkish Turks, nor about Turkic Turks. You have 19 points posted on the talk page Bulgars - focus on answering them(and improving the article), instead of deleting them. Thank you.
@ Borsoka: Yes, roughly speaking your understanding is correct, on all the 3 points. Instead of posting quotes here, I would suggest you to read the article on the website I have provided you. It is my personal website, the article is written (by me) in a similar manner as WP articles, it contains references to almost 100 sources and also images to support the information. To prove you that it is my personal website I will post your nickname(Borsoka) just below the headline. Probably you can help me to improve it and may be to include some of the information into WP articles.
(N.B. I will be able to maintain your nick name below the heading only for a couple of days - I have posted links to the website also on other encyclopedias (including Britannica) and it will look silly if I maintain some strange name right below the central heading. Sorry. Here is the link again: http://dulo.myfreesites.net/ )
I see that these articles and also their talk pages will remain locked. For sure you will not answer these points because you can't. Despite the fact that the answer is in front of you, on page 23 ref№ 4 of your favorite P Golden:
Turkae were the nearest neighbors of Thyssagetae...
Who were these Thyssagetae dude? Who might live near them? check out on my website: http://dulo.myfreesites.net/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.100.143.130 ( talk) 00:53, 28 March 2016 (UTC)
this is a very hard question for you, dude, that's why I will add it as point Number 20 on the talk page Bulgars. 121.100.143.130 ( talk) 01:22, 28 March 2016 (UTC)
Thank you dude. It is obvious that Turkae = the Great Yuezhi. As I told you it is not so hard to find who were these " Sarmatized Turks or Turkicized Sarmatians" who practiced artificial cranial deformation of the circular type:
"The artificially deformed skulls in proto-Bulgarian graves cannot be separated from those in the graves of the Sarmatizeđ Turks or Turkicized Sarmatians of the post-Attilanic graves in the South Russian steppes." [2]
Here are, especially for you, tips/samples how to write great articles on WP in the future: https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Talk:Bulgars&oldid=712397764#GERMANS — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.152.217.110 ( talk) 09:25, 29 March 2016 (UTC)
References
onogurs = gara people [2] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.39.89.29 ( talk) 06:48, 22 January 2017 (UTC)
The article mentions the Onogur city Βακάθ without giving an English name for it. The name Βακάθ is a Hellenic name. The English name for the city is Vakath. Please add this fact to the article. OnogurHun ( talk) 03:41, 31 July 2017 (UTC)
An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect On-oq. Please participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so. signed, Rosguill talk 15:08, 3 October 2019 (UTC)
The 10th century Movses Kaghankatvatsi recorded, considered late 4th century, certain Honagur, "a Hun from the Honk" who raided Persia, which were related to the Onoghurs, and located near Transcaucasia and the Sassanian Empire. Can someone who understands this sentence rewrite it? It seems garbled and I can't make sense of it. What is "the Honk"? -- 92.76.26.76 ( talk) 18:00, 18 May 2022 (UTC)
"[...] and terms of equestrian culture ló 'horse', nyereg 'saddle', fék 'bridle', ostor 'whip' [...]"
See: [3] http://uralonet.nytud.hu
[4] https://uesz.nytud.hu/index.html
Summarizing with my own words:
2001:4C4E:1E9C:2300:FDAD:A7CB:AB35:1782 ( talk) 03:09, 24 July 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Onogurs article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1 |
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
@ Drmies: the talk page was recently archived. The case is too complex to simply again write about it, and after so many time it is quite tiresome. See the recent noticeboard discussion (and through it follow many discussions which were previously held in article's and user's talk pages, watch for possible archiving), and the two replies (almost the same, the first is a few days more recent draft) to the drafts Draft talk:Hunno-Bulgars and Draft talk:The origin of the Bulgars. It is not the matter of a simple dispute resolution, it includes many serious issues. Some of the info was previously properly included in related articles, but the intention of those socks is not WP:NPOV, but a total rewrite and revision of what is generally considered. It's not in a good faith. The sock-puppetry, which started in March 2015 by User:PavelStaykov and I testify almost a year, has a substantial history, and it needs to be properly handled for once and for all.-- Crovata ( talk) 16:22, 7 February 2016 (UTC)
Dude it's better to explain to the readers why you have deleted 15 books from the article (most of them published by Cambridge) and have replaced them with the writings of Peter Golden. WP is not an advertisement board of Peter Golden. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.254.219.92 ( talk) 17:16, 7 February 2016 (UTC)
And because you will not answer - I'll do it for you. You are the so called "official" vandal here on WP. Someone who has editor account from years and using it to impose his ideas. That's why you have deleted whole sections from many articles and replaced them with the speculations of a single scholar. What is the moral of this story? If you need reliable information on controversial topic - search it everywhere but not on WP - here are too many anonymous manafs as you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.254.219.92 ( talk) 17:44, 7 February 2016 (UTC) and this is my sign 359 988 744815
Anon, you should have realized that the approach you are trying to push on other editors leads nowhere. If you want to share your knowledge with the readers of WP you should accept basic WP policies, including WP:NOR and WP:civility. Instead of compulsively (maybe braindeadly) repeating your edits, would you summarize here what you want to present in the article? Borsoka ( talk) 06:50, 23 March 2016 (UTC)
I was right : the Hun's of Attila, the Kutrigurs were a tribe from the Little Yuezhi, who brought the name Hu, Hun to Europe. The rest of the little Yuezhi entered Europe in mid 6th century under the name Uar or Var, Avar and struck terror among the rest of the hunnogurs who took them for the historical Mongols, the Wuhuan �� (*Awar). The dicothomy Hun-Massgetae is actually Little Yuezhi - Great Yuezhi. I knew that the idea Yuezhi-Xiongnu composition of western Huns is impossible due to the history of these people. Check out here: http://www.worldlibrary.org/article/whebn0000310053/uar The little Yuezhi spent 3 centuries under Xiongnu rule, so after all it turns out that the idea European Huns = Xiongnu is not so wrong idea - indeed people who really were part of Xiongnu moved to Europe. Kutrigurs is from kutre in Bulgarian language, kutre is the "little finger" or the "pinkie" (you can check it with google translate - кутре - slavonic) -> hence small people. This coincide with the historical description that the Huns were short of stature. It would be interesting to find out information about the physical appearance of the little Yuezhi. ( I am sure it would be the same). Also, all this explains another very important question : when the Utigur Bulgars ( Unogundurs) founded Danube Bulgaria in 681 AD, the Kutrigurs didn't join them, but they stay with the Avars in Pannonia. This is strange, and suggests that Kutrigurs were the same as the Avars, and not Utigurs (as it is usually assumed). Only when the Avar khaganat was destroyed in the beginning of 9th century they moved to Bulgaria. All graves with skeletons with mongoloid admixture from Bulgar graves are dated to be from 9th century and none from 8th century. Another important score here. Also the burial orientation of the Kutrigurs is western, but it is northern for the Utigurs. But probably I am wasting my time, turkic editors will not allow such information to be presented on the articles. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.243.183.72 ( talk) 16:12, 7 April 2016 (UTC)
Dude, it's not polite to interrupt people's conversation. What you should understand is that someone might have some other motives than hatred toward Turks. For example - to know its own origin( based on sth more than mere similarity of 15 personal names and 3-4 administrative terms). I do not hate Turks, and I do not love them, and to be honest, I do not give a damn shit about them. Neither about Turkish Turks, nor about Turkic Turks. You have 19 points posted on the talk page Bulgars - focus on answering them(and improving the article), instead of deleting them. Thank you.
@ Borsoka: Yes, roughly speaking your understanding is correct, on all the 3 points. Instead of posting quotes here, I would suggest you to read the article on the website I have provided you. It is my personal website, the article is written (by me) in a similar manner as WP articles, it contains references to almost 100 sources and also images to support the information. To prove you that it is my personal website I will post your nickname(Borsoka) just below the headline. Probably you can help me to improve it and may be to include some of the information into WP articles.
(N.B. I will be able to maintain your nick name below the heading only for a couple of days - I have posted links to the website also on other encyclopedias (including Britannica) and it will look silly if I maintain some strange name right below the central heading. Sorry. Here is the link again: http://dulo.myfreesites.net/ )
I see that these articles and also their talk pages will remain locked. For sure you will not answer these points because you can't. Despite the fact that the answer is in front of you, on page 23 ref№ 4 of your favorite P Golden:
Turkae were the nearest neighbors of Thyssagetae...
Who were these Thyssagetae dude? Who might live near them? check out on my website: http://dulo.myfreesites.net/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.100.143.130 ( talk) 00:53, 28 March 2016 (UTC)
this is a very hard question for you, dude, that's why I will add it as point Number 20 on the talk page Bulgars. 121.100.143.130 ( talk) 01:22, 28 March 2016 (UTC)
Thank you dude. It is obvious that Turkae = the Great Yuezhi. As I told you it is not so hard to find who were these " Sarmatized Turks or Turkicized Sarmatians" who practiced artificial cranial deformation of the circular type:
"The artificially deformed skulls in proto-Bulgarian graves cannot be separated from those in the graves of the Sarmatizeđ Turks or Turkicized Sarmatians of the post-Attilanic graves in the South Russian steppes." [2]
Here are, especially for you, tips/samples how to write great articles on WP in the future: https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Talk:Bulgars&oldid=712397764#GERMANS — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.152.217.110 ( talk) 09:25, 29 March 2016 (UTC)
References
onogurs = gara people [2] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.39.89.29 ( talk) 06:48, 22 January 2017 (UTC)
The article mentions the Onogur city Βακάθ without giving an English name for it. The name Βακάθ is a Hellenic name. The English name for the city is Vakath. Please add this fact to the article. OnogurHun ( talk) 03:41, 31 July 2017 (UTC)
An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect On-oq. Please participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so. signed, Rosguill talk 15:08, 3 October 2019 (UTC)
The 10th century Movses Kaghankatvatsi recorded, considered late 4th century, certain Honagur, "a Hun from the Honk" who raided Persia, which were related to the Onoghurs, and located near Transcaucasia and the Sassanian Empire. Can someone who understands this sentence rewrite it? It seems garbled and I can't make sense of it. What is "the Honk"? -- 92.76.26.76 ( talk) 18:00, 18 May 2022 (UTC)
"[...] and terms of equestrian culture ló 'horse', nyereg 'saddle', fék 'bridle', ostor 'whip' [...]"
See: [3] http://uralonet.nytud.hu
[4] https://uesz.nytud.hu/index.html
Summarizing with my own words:
2001:4C4E:1E9C:2300:FDAD:A7CB:AB35:1782 ( talk) 03:09, 24 July 2024 (UTC)