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Malcom X, Betty X, and Cassius Clay are all dead names. However in February of 1964 these were their names and hence the name of the characters in the film. Samurai Kung fu Cowboy ( talk) 23:29, 15 January 2021 (UTC)
Another note. You are continually changing it both anonymously and under an account that has very few edits, in spite of the talk page and me messaging you, asking you to discuss it on here. Samurai Kung fu Cowboy ( talk) 14:18, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
Pinging @ Facu-el Millo:: @ Rusted AutoParts:: @ The Grand Delusion:: @ Some Dude From North Carolina:, for further input. Samurai Kung fu Cowboy ( talk) 14:48, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
On the movie's IMBD page, the character is referred to as Ali. I am fine with having both Cassius Clay and Ali in the character name section but omitting Ali's name entirely is not how the movie is advertised. It is advertised as Ali. The writer of this character refers to them as Ali. -- 2601:140:8B80:5F50:9C2:6FA5:79D8:BD29 ( talk) 16:17, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
I have brought up the name change on Malik Shabazz's page Samurai Kung fu Cowboy ( talk) 16:17, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
When you use "and" instead of "later known as" or "also known as" it implies that the actor played two different character. He did not. This is the same character.-- 2601:140:8B80:5F50:9C2:6FA5:79D8:BD29 ( talk) 16:34, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
@ Facu-el Millo: I believe we're going down a rabbit hole. I hear you about DiCaprio. That conversation is over with. What I'm saying is that it does not apply to Malik Shabazz. Samurai Kung fu Cowboy ( talk) 16:49, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
To the anon user. You are clearly editing anonymously for a reason. Samurai Kung fu Cowboy ( talk) 16:50, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
I said believe. Not that it's a fact but it's certainly based in logic when looking at the history of edits. Samurai Kung fu Cowboy ( talk) 16:51, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
@ Facu-el Millo: Ok. I understand the comparison now. Thank you for your input. I hope you understand my confusion. Samurai Kung fu Cowboy ( talk) 16:59, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
To anon. It wasn't done in bad faith. It was done based on the history of the page and a logical assumption. Samurai Kung fu Cowboy ( talk) 17:04, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
And your lack of an edit history and yet an extensive knowledge of Wikipedia, appear to favor my opinion, I believe. Samurai Kung fu Cowboy ( talk) 17:05, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
Okay. This needs to stop. @
Samurai Kung fu Cowboy: you can try to open a
WP:Sockpuppet investigation if you want to, but both these editors seem to be widly different in the way they express themselves. Naiman2020 has attacked you repeatedly, accusing you of racism and hate for being Jewish without any basis whatsoever, and saying that you play the "victim card"
. The IP on the other hand seems to be quite reasonable and respectful in comparison, both in their comments here and in their edit summaries in the article. Were an SP investigation to be rejected or to be concluded as these two users being different people, you can take Naiman2020 to
WP:ANI for their bad-faith attacks towards you. —
El Millo (
talk)
17:45, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
@ Naiman2020:You clearly inferred I was anti-Muslim because of my religion. You stated I must have a problem with "Muhammad names" because of my religion. Although I do not really practice Judaism, it clearly states that I'm Jewish and it's my heritage on my page. The fact that I was raised by non-Zionist hippies completely throws your theory out of the window. However, it doesn't matter. What matters are your baseless, bigoted statements and the fact that you're now denying them. Samurai Kung fu Cowboy ( talk) 17:58, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
Unless, your religion teaches you to hate others and especially those with Muhammad names?edit summary by Naiman2020, reverting an edit by Samurai. — El Millo ( talk) 18:16, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
@ Facu-el Millo: I have already brought up this editor on the Administrator's noticeboard and notified them about it. I mostly focused on their bigotry but I also brought up the sock puppetry. Samurai Kung fu Cowboy ( talk) 18:01, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
@ Naiman2020: I see you have now edited your last comment with an apology which I appreciate and mostly accept. Will you acknowledge that your statement was because of my Jewish heritage? It was clear it was directed towards me and what my user page says. Will you take responsibility for targeting me based on my assumed religion and my race? You made that comment before I ever brought it up on here. Samurai Kung fu Cowboy ( talk) 18:13, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
Malik Shabazz is a Muslim name. Malcolm X is not. And your statement was clearly anti-Jewish. You apologized and then wrote that? That's unfortunate. Samurai Kung fu Cowboy ( talk) 18:15, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
This....is why I don't have a Wikipedia account. Good luck! I'm out unless it's directly related to the page. -- 2601:140:8B80:5F50:9C2:6FA5:79D8:BD29 ( talk) 18:21, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
He changed his name from one he used with an organization that ultimately murdered him and yet that's the name he's commonly referred by. Let alone because he made his Hajj to Mecca, which completely changed his view on himself and the world through Islam and his relationship with it. Samurai Kung fu Cowboy ( talk) 18:23, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
@ Facu-el Millo: Now that you have seen the comment and the attempt to deny it, I hope you see why I don't believe anything this editor says. Thank you for posting it. Samurai Kung fu Cowboy ( talk) 19:34, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
To Anon. Puff Daddy is irrelevant here. He changed his MC monicker. Shabazz legally changed his name based on a complete change in how he saw humanity, race, justice, his religion, and the world, and how he identified himself in it. Samurai Kung fu Cowboy ( talk) 19:36, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
@ The Grand Delusion: There was no reason to say that. Just don't say anything. At the time I pinged you we needed a consensus one way or another. I pinged you because I valued your insight. Not to waste time. Clearly there was a disagreement. Now we have a consensus. Don't worry. It won't happen again. Samurai Kung fu Cowboy ( talk) 20:04, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
@ Naiman2020:As I stated I don't practice Judaism. That's an assumption you made based on me being Jewish. However, you most definitely did make that statement and Facu even posted it on here word for word. I also highly doubt you're Jewish. However, if you are, making bigoted comments towards other Jews is still unacceptable. Samurai Kung fu Cowboy ( talk) 21:28, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
To Anon. Thanks for posting that. It was a good interview and I see your point. I still stand by what I said but you're right. My guess is he did that because it's how the masses already knew him which certainly lends weight to keeping his name as X on Wikipedia. The question becomes does Wikipedia prioritize his individual identity now even though it didn't happen in the mid 60's. I don't think a trans person's identity would be widely respected or acknowledged on public TV at that time either. But nowadays it's starting to be different and Wikipedia has a policy acknowledging and respecting this. Him not making a big protest of it does not mean it was still his name. Samurai Kung fu Cowboy ( talk) 21:59, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
@ 2601:140:8B80:5F50:9C2:6FA5:79D8:BD29: Anon unfortunately I can't seem to privately message an anonymous user. However, I appreciate your time and am sorry for accusing you of sockpuppetry. I have no evidence to back that up and after speaking to you, I now don't think it's possible you are the same user. Samurai Kung fu Cowboy ( talk) 02:26, 22 January 2021 (UTC)
This is a comment, not an edit. After the early use of the full name “Malcolm X,” he is subsequently referred to as “X.” This is absurd! Many male members of the Nation of Islam took “X” as their surname in order to call attention their repudiation of their so-called slave name. So “X” could refer to dozens of men. I am a 68-year old African American who became a magazine editor (Ms. from 1975-78; Essence as a contributing editor from 1978-81), then earned a Ph.D. from Yale, where I eventually held a joint appointment in African American Studies and Art History from 1994-98. Please trust me when I say the preferred way to refer to Malcolm X when you don’t want to use his full name is simply as “Malcolm.”
Can provide sources but in general this is how Malcolm is referred to. Please see his Wikipedia page for guidance. Agree with the gentleman who pointed this out earlier.
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
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Malcom X, Betty X, and Cassius Clay are all dead names. However in February of 1964 these were their names and hence the name of the characters in the film. Samurai Kung fu Cowboy ( talk) 23:29, 15 January 2021 (UTC)
Another note. You are continually changing it both anonymously and under an account that has very few edits, in spite of the talk page and me messaging you, asking you to discuss it on here. Samurai Kung fu Cowboy ( talk) 14:18, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
Pinging @ Facu-el Millo:: @ Rusted AutoParts:: @ The Grand Delusion:: @ Some Dude From North Carolina:, for further input. Samurai Kung fu Cowboy ( talk) 14:48, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
On the movie's IMBD page, the character is referred to as Ali. I am fine with having both Cassius Clay and Ali in the character name section but omitting Ali's name entirely is not how the movie is advertised. It is advertised as Ali. The writer of this character refers to them as Ali. -- 2601:140:8B80:5F50:9C2:6FA5:79D8:BD29 ( talk) 16:17, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
I have brought up the name change on Malik Shabazz's page Samurai Kung fu Cowboy ( talk) 16:17, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
When you use "and" instead of "later known as" or "also known as" it implies that the actor played two different character. He did not. This is the same character.-- 2601:140:8B80:5F50:9C2:6FA5:79D8:BD29 ( talk) 16:34, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
@ Facu-el Millo: I believe we're going down a rabbit hole. I hear you about DiCaprio. That conversation is over with. What I'm saying is that it does not apply to Malik Shabazz. Samurai Kung fu Cowboy ( talk) 16:49, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
To the anon user. You are clearly editing anonymously for a reason. Samurai Kung fu Cowboy ( talk) 16:50, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
I said believe. Not that it's a fact but it's certainly based in logic when looking at the history of edits. Samurai Kung fu Cowboy ( talk) 16:51, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
@ Facu-el Millo: Ok. I understand the comparison now. Thank you for your input. I hope you understand my confusion. Samurai Kung fu Cowboy ( talk) 16:59, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
To anon. It wasn't done in bad faith. It was done based on the history of the page and a logical assumption. Samurai Kung fu Cowboy ( talk) 17:04, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
And your lack of an edit history and yet an extensive knowledge of Wikipedia, appear to favor my opinion, I believe. Samurai Kung fu Cowboy ( talk) 17:05, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
Okay. This needs to stop. @
Samurai Kung fu Cowboy: you can try to open a
WP:Sockpuppet investigation if you want to, but both these editors seem to be widly different in the way they express themselves. Naiman2020 has attacked you repeatedly, accusing you of racism and hate for being Jewish without any basis whatsoever, and saying that you play the "victim card"
. The IP on the other hand seems to be quite reasonable and respectful in comparison, both in their comments here and in their edit summaries in the article. Were an SP investigation to be rejected or to be concluded as these two users being different people, you can take Naiman2020 to
WP:ANI for their bad-faith attacks towards you. —
El Millo (
talk)
17:45, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
@ Naiman2020:You clearly inferred I was anti-Muslim because of my religion. You stated I must have a problem with "Muhammad names" because of my religion. Although I do not really practice Judaism, it clearly states that I'm Jewish and it's my heritage on my page. The fact that I was raised by non-Zionist hippies completely throws your theory out of the window. However, it doesn't matter. What matters are your baseless, bigoted statements and the fact that you're now denying them. Samurai Kung fu Cowboy ( talk) 17:58, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
Unless, your religion teaches you to hate others and especially those with Muhammad names?edit summary by Naiman2020, reverting an edit by Samurai. — El Millo ( talk) 18:16, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
@ Facu-el Millo: I have already brought up this editor on the Administrator's noticeboard and notified them about it. I mostly focused on their bigotry but I also brought up the sock puppetry. Samurai Kung fu Cowboy ( talk) 18:01, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
@ Naiman2020: I see you have now edited your last comment with an apology which I appreciate and mostly accept. Will you acknowledge that your statement was because of my Jewish heritage? It was clear it was directed towards me and what my user page says. Will you take responsibility for targeting me based on my assumed religion and my race? You made that comment before I ever brought it up on here. Samurai Kung fu Cowboy ( talk) 18:13, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
Malik Shabazz is a Muslim name. Malcolm X is not. And your statement was clearly anti-Jewish. You apologized and then wrote that? That's unfortunate. Samurai Kung fu Cowboy ( talk) 18:15, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
This....is why I don't have a Wikipedia account. Good luck! I'm out unless it's directly related to the page. -- 2601:140:8B80:5F50:9C2:6FA5:79D8:BD29 ( talk) 18:21, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
He changed his name from one he used with an organization that ultimately murdered him and yet that's the name he's commonly referred by. Let alone because he made his Hajj to Mecca, which completely changed his view on himself and the world through Islam and his relationship with it. Samurai Kung fu Cowboy ( talk) 18:23, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
@ Facu-el Millo: Now that you have seen the comment and the attempt to deny it, I hope you see why I don't believe anything this editor says. Thank you for posting it. Samurai Kung fu Cowboy ( talk) 19:34, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
To Anon. Puff Daddy is irrelevant here. He changed his MC monicker. Shabazz legally changed his name based on a complete change in how he saw humanity, race, justice, his religion, and the world, and how he identified himself in it. Samurai Kung fu Cowboy ( talk) 19:36, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
@ The Grand Delusion: There was no reason to say that. Just don't say anything. At the time I pinged you we needed a consensus one way or another. I pinged you because I valued your insight. Not to waste time. Clearly there was a disagreement. Now we have a consensus. Don't worry. It won't happen again. Samurai Kung fu Cowboy ( talk) 20:04, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
@ Naiman2020:As I stated I don't practice Judaism. That's an assumption you made based on me being Jewish. However, you most definitely did make that statement and Facu even posted it on here word for word. I also highly doubt you're Jewish. However, if you are, making bigoted comments towards other Jews is still unacceptable. Samurai Kung fu Cowboy ( talk) 21:28, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
To Anon. Thanks for posting that. It was a good interview and I see your point. I still stand by what I said but you're right. My guess is he did that because it's how the masses already knew him which certainly lends weight to keeping his name as X on Wikipedia. The question becomes does Wikipedia prioritize his individual identity now even though it didn't happen in the mid 60's. I don't think a trans person's identity would be widely respected or acknowledged on public TV at that time either. But nowadays it's starting to be different and Wikipedia has a policy acknowledging and respecting this. Him not making a big protest of it does not mean it was still his name. Samurai Kung fu Cowboy ( talk) 21:59, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
@ 2601:140:8B80:5F50:9C2:6FA5:79D8:BD29: Anon unfortunately I can't seem to privately message an anonymous user. However, I appreciate your time and am sorry for accusing you of sockpuppetry. I have no evidence to back that up and after speaking to you, I now don't think it's possible you are the same user. Samurai Kung fu Cowboy ( talk) 02:26, 22 January 2021 (UTC)
This is a comment, not an edit. After the early use of the full name “Malcolm X,” he is subsequently referred to as “X.” This is absurd! Many male members of the Nation of Islam took “X” as their surname in order to call attention their repudiation of their so-called slave name. So “X” could refer to dozens of men. I am a 68-year old African American who became a magazine editor (Ms. from 1975-78; Essence as a contributing editor from 1978-81), then earned a Ph.D. from Yale, where I eventually held a joint appointment in African American Studies and Art History from 1994-98. Please trust me when I say the preferred way to refer to Malcolm X when you don’t want to use his full name is simply as “Malcolm.”
Can provide sources but in general this is how Malcolm is referred to. Please see his Wikipedia page for guidance. Agree with the gentleman who pointed this out earlier.