This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||
|
Currently, there is a discussion regarding this issue, since I believe that the term "Old Toronto" is very ambiguous. Johnny Au ( talk/ contributions) 21:33, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
Why are we still discussing this? Inertia? We (Torontonians) still refer to Scarborough, East York, Etobicoke, Toronto, etc. Canada Post still delivers to the cities of Scarborough, Toronto, etc. so to call Toronto Old Toronto is simply not right. I've never heard of Toronto being referred to as Old Toronto. This is the first and only time (in my 14 years in Toronto and 2 months out in the wilds of Scarborough) I've ever heard that name. City of Toronto indicates that you're talking about the unwieldy, dysfunctional megacity we're saddled with. If you want to distinguish between Toronto and the City of Toronto you could always use 'Metro Toronto'. People may refer to Metro Toronto when talking about the city of Toronto that existed before the megacity City of Toronto was foisted upon us. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.71.255.227 ( talk) 02:23, 5 November 2014 (UTC)
The article is currently titled Old Toronto, but the only mention of that phrase within the article is in the third paragraph where it says "The old city is also called Old Toronto, but this term has historically referred to Toronto's boundaries before the Great Toronto Fire of 1904." The lead paragraph refers to the Old City of Toronto and goes on to define several alternative terms.
So "Old Toronto" has another meaning and is not really the name of the former Toronto. In addition, having "Old" as the first word of the title gives the false impression that it has to be capitalized, when still another version that people actually is "(the) old Toronto".
It would therefore make more sense the article to be retitled to Toronto (old city). (Some other alternatives are Toronto (pre-1998 city) or Toronto (pre-amalgamation) or Toronto (pre-megacity) or just Toronto (old). But I think the first one is clearest.)
Currently a whole bunch of pages about TTC subway stations, like this one, say in an infobox that the station is in a "district" (whatever that is) called "Old Toronto", which links to this page. These should also be updated to say "Toronto (old city)". -- 208.76.104.133 ( talk) 08:48, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
How about calling this article City of Toronto (Old) or City of Toronto (Former)? JosephIWMolto ( talk) 04:18, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
-slightly different naming patters have developed for each. Despite being otherwise completely inconsistent in their naming pattern, most articles on regions have the designation in the title: 'York County, Ontario', 'Metropolitan Toronto' and 'Regional Municipality of York' so the current 'megacity' of Toronto (if we treat it as a region which it effectively is, if not officially) should be 'City of Toronto' (current, post 1998 city) which leaves 'Toronto, Ontario' for the old (1834-1998) city in line with the article names for the other defunct local governments within the City of Toronto. Then the effective rule would be:
- 'Toronto' would lead to 'City of Toronto' (post 1998) or a Toronto disambiguation page. In this case would it be problematic calling the article on the old city (1834-1998) Toronto, Ontario?
If we are looking for some sort of consistency, there are two other possible solutions I think:
-One other thing to keep in mind is that the last solution treats a former municipality as only an entity of the past while, in effect, Toronto, Etobicoke, Scarborough etc. can also be considered current 'regions' or 'super neighbourhoods' of the current 'megacity' in which case we could be treating them more like neighbourhoods (many of which are also defunct municipalities while many others were never more the postal communities or commercial developments). Not that that helps much, there is little consistency in the naming of Toronto neighbourhoods except a tendency towards a hierarchichal style X, Toronto (such as Riverdale, Toronto) which would lead us back to the unacceptable name Toronto, Toronto (mega neighbourhood of Toronto in the modern City of Toronto)?!? If it is possible(?) to develop any general guidelines it could help with other naming questions! JosephIWMolto ( talk) 09:32, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: page moved per discussion Ronhjones (Talk) 02:34, 31 December 2010 (UTC)
Toronto (former) →
City of Toronto — I see
there is an old discussion above regarding this topic but thought a better discussion could be generated here. "City of Toronto" is the name of the settlement with its original boundaries created in 1834. A similar scheme of naming can be seen with
London and
City of London. The qualifier "former" does not seem appropriate for use as a Wikipedia article title.
EelamStyleZ (
talk) 03:17, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
(outdent) I think we must be talking past each other - the "thing wrong" with naming it simply "City of Toronto" is that this phrase (as I understand it) does not primarily refer to the City of Toronto of the period we're talking about. Have I misunderstood? Are you claiming that the phrase does primarily refer to the area of the old city rather than the present-day one? If that's the case, then there's no problem with having it as the title; but if it isn't, surely you can see the objection?-- Kotniski ( talk) 08:43, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||
|
Currently, there is a discussion regarding this issue, since I believe that the term "Old Toronto" is very ambiguous. Johnny Au ( talk/ contributions) 21:33, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
Why are we still discussing this? Inertia? We (Torontonians) still refer to Scarborough, East York, Etobicoke, Toronto, etc. Canada Post still delivers to the cities of Scarborough, Toronto, etc. so to call Toronto Old Toronto is simply not right. I've never heard of Toronto being referred to as Old Toronto. This is the first and only time (in my 14 years in Toronto and 2 months out in the wilds of Scarborough) I've ever heard that name. City of Toronto indicates that you're talking about the unwieldy, dysfunctional megacity we're saddled with. If you want to distinguish between Toronto and the City of Toronto you could always use 'Metro Toronto'. People may refer to Metro Toronto when talking about the city of Toronto that existed before the megacity City of Toronto was foisted upon us. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.71.255.227 ( talk) 02:23, 5 November 2014 (UTC)
The article is currently titled Old Toronto, but the only mention of that phrase within the article is in the third paragraph where it says "The old city is also called Old Toronto, but this term has historically referred to Toronto's boundaries before the Great Toronto Fire of 1904." The lead paragraph refers to the Old City of Toronto and goes on to define several alternative terms.
So "Old Toronto" has another meaning and is not really the name of the former Toronto. In addition, having "Old" as the first word of the title gives the false impression that it has to be capitalized, when still another version that people actually is "(the) old Toronto".
It would therefore make more sense the article to be retitled to Toronto (old city). (Some other alternatives are Toronto (pre-1998 city) or Toronto (pre-amalgamation) or Toronto (pre-megacity) or just Toronto (old). But I think the first one is clearest.)
Currently a whole bunch of pages about TTC subway stations, like this one, say in an infobox that the station is in a "district" (whatever that is) called "Old Toronto", which links to this page. These should also be updated to say "Toronto (old city)". -- 208.76.104.133 ( talk) 08:48, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
How about calling this article City of Toronto (Old) or City of Toronto (Former)? JosephIWMolto ( talk) 04:18, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
-slightly different naming patters have developed for each. Despite being otherwise completely inconsistent in their naming pattern, most articles on regions have the designation in the title: 'York County, Ontario', 'Metropolitan Toronto' and 'Regional Municipality of York' so the current 'megacity' of Toronto (if we treat it as a region which it effectively is, if not officially) should be 'City of Toronto' (current, post 1998 city) which leaves 'Toronto, Ontario' for the old (1834-1998) city in line with the article names for the other defunct local governments within the City of Toronto. Then the effective rule would be:
- 'Toronto' would lead to 'City of Toronto' (post 1998) or a Toronto disambiguation page. In this case would it be problematic calling the article on the old city (1834-1998) Toronto, Ontario?
If we are looking for some sort of consistency, there are two other possible solutions I think:
-One other thing to keep in mind is that the last solution treats a former municipality as only an entity of the past while, in effect, Toronto, Etobicoke, Scarborough etc. can also be considered current 'regions' or 'super neighbourhoods' of the current 'megacity' in which case we could be treating them more like neighbourhoods (many of which are also defunct municipalities while many others were never more the postal communities or commercial developments). Not that that helps much, there is little consistency in the naming of Toronto neighbourhoods except a tendency towards a hierarchichal style X, Toronto (such as Riverdale, Toronto) which would lead us back to the unacceptable name Toronto, Toronto (mega neighbourhood of Toronto in the modern City of Toronto)?!? If it is possible(?) to develop any general guidelines it could help with other naming questions! JosephIWMolto ( talk) 09:32, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: page moved per discussion Ronhjones (Talk) 02:34, 31 December 2010 (UTC)
Toronto (former) →
City of Toronto — I see
there is an old discussion above regarding this topic but thought a better discussion could be generated here. "City of Toronto" is the name of the settlement with its original boundaries created in 1834. A similar scheme of naming can be seen with
London and
City of London. The qualifier "former" does not seem appropriate for use as a Wikipedia article title.
EelamStyleZ (
talk) 03:17, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
(outdent) I think we must be talking past each other - the "thing wrong" with naming it simply "City of Toronto" is that this phrase (as I understand it) does not primarily refer to the City of Toronto of the period we're talking about. Have I misunderstood? Are you claiming that the phrase does primarily refer to the area of the old city rather than the present-day one? If that's the case, then there's no problem with having it as the title; but if it isn't, surely you can see the objection?-- Kotniski ( talk) 08:43, 14 December 2010 (UTC)