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In the article is mentioned "After Fryslân (now the Dutch province Friesland) lost its independence and became part of the Dutch Republic, Old Frisian lost its status as official language. The period 1550 - 1800 is designated Middle Frisian, when the language was rarely recorded in writing."
I always thougt that the historic Frisia or Fryslân was a much larger area than the present day Friesland or Fryslân. This is only the area between roughly Groningen en the IJsselmeer, the former Zuiderzee. I thought the original area where Old frision was spoken was the entire region between Alkmaar and Hamburg. Does anybody know how this area is defined precisely? Migdejong 08:13, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
This article says,
But [[ Frisians]] says,
This should be sorted out.
—
Ruakh
TALK
14:50, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
If you read the original work on which the above-mentioned rather tendentious newspaper article is based, you may come to an altogether different conclusion: DE LATE PREHISTORIE EN PROTOHISTORIE VAN HOLOCEEN NOORD-NEDERLAND (in Dutch). There is no wholesale depopulation of Friesland in the 4-5th c., but the cultural continuity, as seen in pottery and such, is disputed. That's something entirely different.-- Joostik ( talk) 21:57, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
In het laatste komt echter in de loop van de derde eeuw verandering: de Friese aardewerktraditie gaat geheel verloren en wordt vervangen door aardewerk van de Driesum-stijl. Een sterke achteruitgang in het aantal kustbewoners – volgens Taayke komt het tot een ‘homeopatische verdunning’ van de Friezen - loopt parallel met genoemde ontwikkeling.
So even in the article you link to the conclusion is drawn that there is no direct link between the Frisians in Tacitus and the Frisians of King Redbad. Unless ofcourse you think there is something in homeopathy. Chardon ( talk) 18:19, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
I've moved the following from the lead to here:
Whether the speakers of Frisian are the immediate descendants of the Frisians of Roman times or immigrants from North Germany and Denmark is a moot point.
This reads nothing like an encyclopedia article and more like a response to something someone else has said in conversation. If the point is moot, it shouldn't be mentioned. That said, if there's any verifiable information behind whether or not the speakers are Roman-age Frisians, immigrants or both, the sentence should be re-added. 60.241.179.28 ( talk) 06:04, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
There is absolutely no reason to doubt they are their descendants, and much to support they are. For those who read Dutch, see the talk page nl:wiki/Overleg:Frisii and Bazelmans. -- Joostik ( talk) 16:08, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
According to the phonological development section, there should be an affricate /ts/, but it is not present on the consonant IPA table. I would just make an edit, but I have neither the source used nor a different source.
Next is the masculine a-stem plural ending "-ar". I've seen this elsewhere as well, but I am uncertain of its validity in Old Frisian. Modern descendants tend to use an "-s" ending, which would be weird if the ancestral form is "-ar". Is this what's recorded in the Old Frisian corpus? Cynemund ( talk) 21:47, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
In the article is mentioned "After Fryslân (now the Dutch province Friesland) lost its independence and became part of the Dutch Republic, Old Frisian lost its status as official language. The period 1550 - 1800 is designated Middle Frisian, when the language was rarely recorded in writing."
I always thougt that the historic Frisia or Fryslân was a much larger area than the present day Friesland or Fryslân. This is only the area between roughly Groningen en the IJsselmeer, the former Zuiderzee. I thought the original area where Old frision was spoken was the entire region between Alkmaar and Hamburg. Does anybody know how this area is defined precisely? Migdejong 08:13, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
This article says,
But [[ Frisians]] says,
This should be sorted out.
—
Ruakh
TALK
14:50, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
If you read the original work on which the above-mentioned rather tendentious newspaper article is based, you may come to an altogether different conclusion: DE LATE PREHISTORIE EN PROTOHISTORIE VAN HOLOCEEN NOORD-NEDERLAND (in Dutch). There is no wholesale depopulation of Friesland in the 4-5th c., but the cultural continuity, as seen in pottery and such, is disputed. That's something entirely different.-- Joostik ( talk) 21:57, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
In het laatste komt echter in de loop van de derde eeuw verandering: de Friese aardewerktraditie gaat geheel verloren en wordt vervangen door aardewerk van de Driesum-stijl. Een sterke achteruitgang in het aantal kustbewoners – volgens Taayke komt het tot een ‘homeopatische verdunning’ van de Friezen - loopt parallel met genoemde ontwikkeling.
So even in the article you link to the conclusion is drawn that there is no direct link between the Frisians in Tacitus and the Frisians of King Redbad. Unless ofcourse you think there is something in homeopathy. Chardon ( talk) 18:19, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
I've moved the following from the lead to here:
Whether the speakers of Frisian are the immediate descendants of the Frisians of Roman times or immigrants from North Germany and Denmark is a moot point.
This reads nothing like an encyclopedia article and more like a response to something someone else has said in conversation. If the point is moot, it shouldn't be mentioned. That said, if there's any verifiable information behind whether or not the speakers are Roman-age Frisians, immigrants or both, the sentence should be re-added. 60.241.179.28 ( talk) 06:04, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
There is absolutely no reason to doubt they are their descendants, and much to support they are. For those who read Dutch, see the talk page nl:wiki/Overleg:Frisii and Bazelmans. -- Joostik ( talk) 16:08, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
According to the phonological development section, there should be an affricate /ts/, but it is not present on the consonant IPA table. I would just make an edit, but I have neither the source used nor a different source.
Next is the masculine a-stem plural ending "-ar". I've seen this elsewhere as well, but I am uncertain of its validity in Old Frisian. Modern descendants tend to use an "-s" ending, which would be weird if the ancestral form is "-ar". Is this what's recorded in the Old Frisian corpus? Cynemund ( talk) 21:47, 6 October 2023 (UTC)