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It's a Serbian tradition stolen by Croats because of geography and politics, but ethnically it's a Serbian tradition. Even the photo in the actual article shows the festival in Moštanica that has cyrillic writings, and we all know that Croats hate cyrillic and think it represents something non and anti-croat... Just use your head and open your eyes — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.228.241.194 ( talk) 17:39, 18 December 2015 (UTC)
It appears that user there is an attempt to include any tidbit possible to to insert any form of "Serbianism" to Ojkanje. Ojkanje is a style of singing originating in modern day Croatia and a staple of it's culture. Due to emigration and influence, it has spread to various places in Croatia, Bosnia-Herzegovina, and Serbia. The article is not about the latter.
These additions are disconcerting on many levels. They are cherry-picked sentences from vast pieces of work added abruptly into the article with no additional commentary explaining the meaning. These sentences stick out like a sore thumb: In Stanko Opačić Ćanica]]'s "Narodne pjesme Korduna" (Folk songs of Kordun, 1972), he says that the domestic ojkača was called "to sing in Cyrillic" or "Cyrillic-singing. What relevance is this? How does it add to the promotion of the Ojkanje page in lines with WP:Notability.
Another example: Ludvík Kuba is not a Balkan anthropologist or any kind of expert on Ojkanje and what it is. From what information I can gather, he traveled the area and recorded what he noticed. While his statements could be an interesting read, it is not to be considered fact. The source is not reliable or notable.
These addition all have one thing in common: they all attempt to remove any trace of Croats from Ojkanje and claim it as a solely Serbian Orthodox phenomenon. See, only Serbs sang it. It was called Cyrillic. Others have written about the local Serb population singing Ojkanje, so they must be the only ones. All other sources added show this is absolute ludicrous. It is documented that Croats and local Serbs and Muslims living in the Dalmatian and Lika area participated in Ojkanje.
-- Jesuislafete ( talk) 04:22, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
Nearly all the "Ojkanje is Serbian" edits are from articles that quote Nenad Grujičić. He is not exulting facts, that for sure. A "Further reading" section was for some reason added with Nenad Grujičić as a source.
Here are some quotes by Grujičić which show he is not interested in discussing Ojkanje in any way but as a Serbian way. He takes great pains to avoid mentioned the "H" words (Hrvatska, Hrvati, etc.) and only mentions regions such as Kordun, Dalmatia, and Lika. And no, Croats do not nor have ever sang Ojkanje, just Serbs (translations by me in bold):
Here he shows perhaps his most despicable Greater Serbian ideas, subscribing to the Virovitica-Karlovac-Karlobag line idea:
( http://www.riznicasrpska.net/muzika/index.php?topic=985.0)
-- Jesuislafete ( talk) 05:08, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
Please don't put "riznicasrpska" as reliable source. It is Pro-Serb and even Pro-Chetnick. It's like I put some stuff Ante Starcevic said as my source. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.239.19.94 ( talk) 17:37, 4 June 2015 (UTC)
To clear up exactly what Ojkanje singing is: it is described as, "the accepted term for the oldest layer of archaic traditional singing in Croatian regions which, according to the established ethnological division, belong to the Dinaric cultural region. This is a type of archaic singing which characterizes a specific shaking of the voice achieved through a special technique of singing ‘from the throat’." (UNESCO) As noted, it is unique in that it belongs to a very specific region and that is utilizes a very specific shaking of the throat.
User Sadko brings up ojkanje found in Užice, Serbia. Anyone with knowledge of folk singing knows that there are other similar genres of "oj" style of singing throughout the Dinaric range, which spans several countries and many ethnic groups. However, this does not mean those singing styles are ojkanje. This was addressed by the Report on the Satus of an Element Inscribed on the List of Intangible Cultural Heritage in Need of Urgent Safeguarding submitted to UNESCO in December 2018 by the Republic of Croatia, co-authored by ethnomusicologist dr. Joško Ćaleta:
Certain styles of singing found in Bosnia and Herzegovina, Serbia, and Montenegro is Dinaric in origins and style, but not ojkanje. For this reason, I removed those lines. If interested, we can add a mention of other similar styles related to ojkanje to show the relationships along the Dinaric regions. -- Jesuislafete ( talk) 20:43, 23 November 2019 (UTC)
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
It's a Serbian tradition stolen by Croats because of geography and politics, but ethnically it's a Serbian tradition. Even the photo in the actual article shows the festival in Moštanica that has cyrillic writings, and we all know that Croats hate cyrillic and think it represents something non and anti-croat... Just use your head and open your eyes — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.228.241.194 ( talk) 17:39, 18 December 2015 (UTC)
It appears that user there is an attempt to include any tidbit possible to to insert any form of "Serbianism" to Ojkanje. Ojkanje is a style of singing originating in modern day Croatia and a staple of it's culture. Due to emigration and influence, it has spread to various places in Croatia, Bosnia-Herzegovina, and Serbia. The article is not about the latter.
These additions are disconcerting on many levels. They are cherry-picked sentences from vast pieces of work added abruptly into the article with no additional commentary explaining the meaning. These sentences stick out like a sore thumb: In Stanko Opačić Ćanica]]'s "Narodne pjesme Korduna" (Folk songs of Kordun, 1972), he says that the domestic ojkača was called "to sing in Cyrillic" or "Cyrillic-singing. What relevance is this? How does it add to the promotion of the Ojkanje page in lines with WP:Notability.
Another example: Ludvík Kuba is not a Balkan anthropologist or any kind of expert on Ojkanje and what it is. From what information I can gather, he traveled the area and recorded what he noticed. While his statements could be an interesting read, it is not to be considered fact. The source is not reliable or notable.
These addition all have one thing in common: they all attempt to remove any trace of Croats from Ojkanje and claim it as a solely Serbian Orthodox phenomenon. See, only Serbs sang it. It was called Cyrillic. Others have written about the local Serb population singing Ojkanje, so they must be the only ones. All other sources added show this is absolute ludicrous. It is documented that Croats and local Serbs and Muslims living in the Dalmatian and Lika area participated in Ojkanje.
-- Jesuislafete ( talk) 04:22, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
Nearly all the "Ojkanje is Serbian" edits are from articles that quote Nenad Grujičić. He is not exulting facts, that for sure. A "Further reading" section was for some reason added with Nenad Grujičić as a source.
Here are some quotes by Grujičić which show he is not interested in discussing Ojkanje in any way but as a Serbian way. He takes great pains to avoid mentioned the "H" words (Hrvatska, Hrvati, etc.) and only mentions regions such as Kordun, Dalmatia, and Lika. And no, Croats do not nor have ever sang Ojkanje, just Serbs (translations by me in bold):
Here he shows perhaps his most despicable Greater Serbian ideas, subscribing to the Virovitica-Karlovac-Karlobag line idea:
( http://www.riznicasrpska.net/muzika/index.php?topic=985.0)
-- Jesuislafete ( talk) 05:08, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
Please don't put "riznicasrpska" as reliable source. It is Pro-Serb and even Pro-Chetnick. It's like I put some stuff Ante Starcevic said as my source. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.239.19.94 ( talk) 17:37, 4 June 2015 (UTC)
To clear up exactly what Ojkanje singing is: it is described as, "the accepted term for the oldest layer of archaic traditional singing in Croatian regions which, according to the established ethnological division, belong to the Dinaric cultural region. This is a type of archaic singing which characterizes a specific shaking of the voice achieved through a special technique of singing ‘from the throat’." (UNESCO) As noted, it is unique in that it belongs to a very specific region and that is utilizes a very specific shaking of the throat.
User Sadko brings up ojkanje found in Užice, Serbia. Anyone with knowledge of folk singing knows that there are other similar genres of "oj" style of singing throughout the Dinaric range, which spans several countries and many ethnic groups. However, this does not mean those singing styles are ojkanje. This was addressed by the Report on the Satus of an Element Inscribed on the List of Intangible Cultural Heritage in Need of Urgent Safeguarding submitted to UNESCO in December 2018 by the Republic of Croatia, co-authored by ethnomusicologist dr. Joško Ćaleta:
Certain styles of singing found in Bosnia and Herzegovina, Serbia, and Montenegro is Dinaric in origins and style, but not ojkanje. For this reason, I removed those lines. If interested, we can add a mention of other similar styles related to ojkanje to show the relationships along the Dinaric regions. -- Jesuislafete ( talk) 20:43, 23 November 2019 (UTC)