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Archive 1 |
seems to be a lot of origional research and article currently doesn't cite sources.-- Sefringle 03:13, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
It is my first time on wikipedia. I was hoping to add some information on the Christmas in Finland article. I like to tell people about my homeland and wanted to enhance the article. For example, the article states that people light candles on the Christmas tree. I grew up there and visited hundreds and hundreds of friends and families homes and have never seen candles on a tree. Perphaps the article should say that "in the Olden Days they used candles... but now everyone uses Christmas lights". "Traditionally" should not be used in that sentence since it really doesn't happen now (whereas other traditions are still followed to this day). Also, I have never seen or eaten cod fish and think this might be a regional thing. I can certainly research that to find out for sure but I feel that much more popular Christmas foods should be mentioned such as porkkana laatikko, lanttu laatikko (= carrot and rutabaga casseroles), rosolli (= a Christmas salad) as well as maybe joulutorttu (=Christmas star pastry with prune filling). In addition, I think it is awkward to say people in Finland say "Merry Yule". Instead it would be better to say Christmas in Finnish is "Joulu" or Yule. People wish each other "Hyvää Joulua". Thank you. Kirjastotäti ( talk) 16:12, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
On January 13 (locally known as knutdagen), 20 days after Christmas, the Christmas celebrations come to an end and all Christmas decorations are removed.
I spent the winter of 1999-2000 in Ljungby, Sweden and most people kept their Christnas lights up till Shrove Tuesday. I was told this was quite normal. Note I said the lights.
The line, "Santa Claus has nothing to do with the real Christmas story. Santa came in when Christmas go comercialized." really needs to be modified in some way. For now I've deleted it. Some of the christmas symbols are christmas bells and the bible. I am Trying to help my friend so please edit some more some of the drinks are eggnog, hot chocolate and coffee as well as milk. And last but not least the traditions are to leave cookies and milk for santa. as well as go to sleep early. also ice skating and hockey are traditions of chrismas
Ice skating and hockey are simply winter traditions and are not directly associated with Christmas. Many Americans, however may go around their neighborhood Christmas caroling. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.109.38.4 ( talk) 17:45, 4 January 2012 (UTC)
I'm rearranging the article, and I cut this, because it doesn't belong in this page, it belongs in Christmas proper:
-- Carl 09:06, 21 May 2005 (UTC)
Why cannot this go in the article? ~ Also the traditional main meal it is not turkey in the United Kingdom but Roast Goose, as geese are more native and turkey was introduced by American culture. ~Again also, can we please refer from using England to describe the whole of the United Kingdom as in the caption under the image of on Regent Street, London, "England" should be replaced with on Regent Street, London, UK (not that many people will get it confused with London, Kentucky) -- Lemonade100 ( talk) 15:42, 2 November 2008 (GMT)
Advent candles. Three Pink and One Purple is plain wrong. If anything, it is three purple and one pink. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Neely1 ( talk • contribs) 17:16, 27 December 2008 (UTC)
Christmas" is bizarre! You never hear this and never would It doesn't make any sense!! 'Santa' is derived from 'saint' as in Saint Nicholas. 64.208.49.28 ( talk) 13:14, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
I'm not sure why the Bondi stunt is so emphasised. Similar stunts (multiple Santas on milling about on snow skis) occur in Northern Hemisphere countries, and Bondi is a single location on a big continent. Isn't that Bondi thing especially catering for displaced UK and New Zealand tourists and backpackers away from their families so unlikely to be attendeding traditional family gatherings? Most actual Australians would not be at Bondi but instead be at family gatherings. I might try to add something but I'm not sure how to approach it. Original section is below... Asa01 23:22, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
In Commonwealth countries in the southern hemisphere, Christmas is still celebrated on December 25, despite the fact that this is the height of their summer season. This rather clashes with the traditional winter based iconography of Christmas, resulting in anachronisms such as a red fur-coated Santa Claus surfing in for a turkey barbecue on Bondi Beach. The Australian and New Zealand traditions are quite similar to North Americas and The British.
What is the Svyatki (Святки) in Russia about?-- Hhielscher 14:06, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
What's with all the sample images, headline texts and u's? It looks like someone used this article as a sandbox. ChibiKareshi 12:23, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
This photo was at the top of the Germany (or German-speaking Europe) section. But in fact, it has little to do with Christmas, and even fewer with its traditions. You can buy the Pflaumentoffel at Christmas markets, like many other things. From ist history, this thing is linked with children working as chimney sweep. (see: de:Pflaumentoffel). The photo is removed from the article. ---- Schwab7000 ( talk) 13:46, 2 July 2011 (UTC)
Germany most certainly doesn't belong to 'Central Europe' as defined in this article. It ought to be mentioned in the 'Western Europe' section. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.233.220.185 ( talk) 16:14, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
I think someone also needs to check the section on Germany. I'm pretty sure some of the details on the "Krampus" are actually quotations from the "Venture Bros. Christmas Special" which my brother showed me last night after I had mentioned the Krampus. The line about "the Pope casting the Krampus into Purgatory" most definitely comes from the show. It may very well be that the details are correct (I don't personally know much about the Krampus), but the fact that they so closely echo lines from what was essentially a parody of traditional Christmas programming set off a few warning signals in my mind. Macroidtoe 04:18, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
My boyfriend lived in South Korea for seven years, and he's never heard of Santa Claus called "Santa Haraboji." He just said Santa Claus. tweetychick630 22:01, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
It's been proposed that Romanian Christmas traditions be merged into this article. Actually it was also proposed that it be moved here. There seems no proposal to merge (or move) the other articles from Category:Christmas traditions by country, perhaps that's coming, or perhaps it just wasn't very well thought out.
Oppose the merge, anyway. Andrewa 12:32, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
Discuss the merge of the Romanian Christmas traditions article.-- Sefringle 22:45, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
Support The article is a stub, and belongs as a subcategory on this article. As long as it remains a stub, it should be moved.-- Sefringle 07:29, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
I have copied the imformation on the Romanian Christmas traditions article and have put it here. I will nominate that article for deletion soon if appropiate changes are not made soon.-- Sefringle 03:20, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
"Sinterklaas" is not "Santa-ish". Santa Claus is clearly inspired by Sinterklaas.
Someone should look into the regionalization here. For example, Germany is not Northern Europe, while on the other hand, UK and Ukraine (!!) do not belong to Southern Europe. Georgia belongs to Central Asia.
About the traditions in Germany and The Netherlands at Dec 6, they are not largely identical, and the German "Nikolaus"-day does not at all resemble British Christmas (I`m German, so I guess I have a faint idea about this). The Dutch tradition sees Dec 6 as their main event, while in Germany, the "Nikolaus" is a small event; purposefully not celebrated as large as Christmas. It is true that children take their shoes outside (or sometimes stockings), to be filled overnight with a few small sweets or small presents, though.
Also, in Germany are many christmas-figures mixed. It might depend on the region, but there can easily a Christkind (baby Jesus) and Santa Claus exist next to each other.
This page has been vandalised. Under the Japan heading. 67.91.66.218 ( talk) 17:50, 20 December 2007 (UTC)Andre
The headline for Sweden has disappeared, yet underneath the Norwegian entry there is information about Christmas in Sweden. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
81.230.90.194 (
talk)
17:31, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
Can you please write about Christmas in Croatia (December 25), Serbia (January 7), Bosnia and Herzegovina (January 7), Macedonia (January 7)? Armenia as well. They celebrate it on January the 6. -- comment by 67.91.66.218 moved from article page by William Avery ( talk) 11:34, 26 December 2007 (UTC).
I added some stuff about us, the American Jews and our Christmas habits. Feel free to delete anything you don't think is relevant. סרסלי, קײק פּלז ( talk) 08:46, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
This article's been the subject of quite a lot of vandalism. When restoring, please be careful to review recent edits to ensure you restore properly. I'll be keeping an eye on this to see if it needs semi or full protection. -- Dweller ( talk) 12:43, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
Again there has been vandalism between 26 Sept and 28 Sept 2009 by anonymouis users. Can someone revert it? 92.77.140.138 ( talk) 19:17, 30 September 2009 (UTC)
January 2011 - Someone has been randomly removing citations. Don't do this. Then it comes up, that the area of the article needs an appropriate citation, when one already existed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.242.71.27 ( talk) 16:04, 15 January 2011 (UTC)
Joren, I'm sorry but you are getting a little power crazed. You are not in charge here. I replaced the citation with one that meets your stipulation. It was removed, and I have replaced it with yet another one. Both of these meet your original stipulation and are in fact appropriate references. Don't remove them. Don't threaten me or another editor if they are removed, and then replaced again. Don't delegate other editors to threaten me (or another editor) about this issue again.
The orginal reference was appropriate however too. Even though it was a self published site, we will assume that someone who travels and promotes tourism among English speakers to the city of Treviso is in fact an "expert" on the subject. You are not going to find lots and lots of information in English about regional Epiphany folk customs. Wikipedia is that source, because it offers a space where information on topics (of ecyclopedic merit) can be discovered preserved and transmitted regardless of whether other offical channels (news media, publishing companies etc.) consider it significant. Wikipedia is radically democratic in that regard. Furthermore, this again is a folk tradition, and one that happens in open view every single year. When a blog reports on this it is not the same as a blog, say that reports on the author's personal take on the quadratic equation and why it needs to be revamped. First of all there is lots of other objective information on the quadratic equation. (There simply isn't on local relgious customs.) Secondly, a new quadratic equation would be something that might reasonably be considered controversial. This is by no means the case with the information being referenced here. If someone should someday write up on the discussion page, that no, there are not bonfires at Epiphany in Treviso, then we could consider the information in reasonable doubt and the citation in need of verification. (That however will not happen. This information can be multiply referenced and with photographs.) Until that happens however, we should have assumed that the reference was ok for the reasons above. This is not what happened, there was no mention in the talk page, the reference was simply removed. This is what prompted me to start discussion on the talk page - in other words, to pursue propper channels. Here is the original reference for your information thttp://www.blogdolcevita.com/post/2663/epiphany-in-italy-celebrating-la-befana
I am going to urge you to be very sensitive to matters like this in the future. Preserving and documenting culture and traditions are of the greatest important to people everywhere, and have been since before the dawn of time. In one sense, this is not what makes us societies or groups, but what makes us human. In the case of Treviso's particular tradtion, there is in fact no lack of documentation to use here. What about the festival traditions of the Mursi though? Notice we don't see information about them on this page. To find out how they celebrate their holidays and culture, it might take a westerner going in with cameras and crews, and producing an anthropological article at the expense of tens of thousands of dollars. Or not. You see though, by holding otherwise credible information to the standards suggested by some (no self published work, etc.) we discriminate against regional and minority groups. This sounds a great deal like colonialism, cultural and intellctual supression, and very much less like the democracy and freedom which has made wikipedia so hugely popular, and which in fact simply has made it.
We need not recourse to such a dramatic example however. How do Waldensians, in northern Italy or Greco-Albanian Byzantine Catholics in Sicily celebrate Christmas? It is not surprising that this information is not found here, although the article proposes to report on Christmas traditions worldwide, and devotes an entire section to Italy.
Ultimately, I am not going to come up with new references for whatever new stipulations on references gratuitously captious editors may come up with in the future, but simply replace will the reference with one that meets the original stipulation of no self published work. I want you to see the new reference: http://www.trevisoinfo.com/bonfires-veneto.htm This is an official info site on the city. It is an appropriate reference. If it is removed, I will replace it, and then again ask in the talk section that references not be removed, only to be requested. I am not requesting, and certainly do not welcome, a drawn-out discussion on this with you. I simply ask you understand my perspective. "Thanks for understanding." MattDiClemente ( talk) 13:29, 24 January 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by MattDiClemente ( talk • contribs) 13:07, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
Joren, I already told you, I do not want to hear from you anymore. Please don't bother me anymore. I worked on the article because it needed citations. I put citations on the article. They are appropriate and they are there. Find something better to do with your time. If you continue these persecutions over the citations, it must be something personal. — Preceding unsigned comment added by MattDiClemente ( talk • contribs) 17:33, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
"There is more vandalism on this page, and I see the article is semi-protected or I'd fix it myself. During communism, when countries of Central Europe were under Soviet influence, communist authorities strongly pushed Russian traditional Ded Moroz ("Grandfather Frost") in the place of Little Jesus won. Now Santa Claus is attacking, by means of advertising and Hollywood film production." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.131.246.137 ( talk) 13:09, 14 December 2018 (UTC)
The section on Sweden follows under the "Norway" header, with the "Sweden" header missing.
Can't fix myself since the article is locked. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Malesca ( talk • contribs) 18:02, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
Some comments on the Swedish section: "layed" should be "laid"? Is this correct grammar? And a simple typo: "Notrh" should be "North". 84.49.116.43 ( talk) 21:58, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
Thanks. No, porrige is not knocked out.
Warrington ( talk) 22:39, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
The last paragraph under 'Denmark', beginning with "The Christmas feast, in Denmark,..." has a number of issues. The first 3 sentences merely repeat what is already stated above it, except for the mention of good luck, which is a detail I am not familiar with. The rest has a few errors and could be worded better in my opinion. I propose the following paragraph to replace it:
"In Denmark, Santa Claus is known as Julemanden (literally "the Yule Man") and is said to arrive with presents for the children. He is assisted with his Yuletide chores by elves known as julenisser (or simply nisser), who are traditionally believed to live in attics, barns or similar places. In some traditions, to maintain the favor and protection of these nisser, children leave out rice pudding or other treats for them and are delighted to find the food gone on Christmas morning." -- Adcoon ( talk) 14:57, 25 December 2008 (UTC)
Sure
Warrington ( talk) 15:33, 25 December 2008 (UTC)
While 15% of Americans affiliate as non-religious, predominantly of Christian heritage,[citation needed], according to a poll by Fox News, 96% of the people in the United States celebrate Christmas,[6] while only 78% of Americans are observant Christians according to the CIA World Factbook.[7]
Why is it necessary to note this for the US and Canada and no other country? It seems like a meaningless statistic if the point of the article is to note how Christmas is celebrated as a holiday. To do so is to say that the purpose of the celebration of Christmas is strictly as a religious observance
--
Eddylyons (
talk)
01:53, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
Noticed that today, links to some (but not all) countries were removed, citing WP:Overlink. I mainly wanted to post to see if there was existing consensus as far as which countries to link to and which not to. (It seemed odd to me that Israel is linked while Japan is now unlinked...is there a specific guideline being followed?)
My 2 cents... I believe it is useful and not over-linking to have one (and only one) link in each country's section to the country it is named for. However, references to other countries in the section should NOT be linked to. E.g. in the section on Bangladesh, Bangladesh should be linked, but India should not. National links are relevant in that Christmas celebrations are very much dependent on the culture of said countries, and is likely to be a springboard for wanting to click through to articles about those cultures. (at least in this article, I have clicked through myself to many of these links). I also think it would be wise where possible/relevant to link to articles about the country's culture in preference to the country itself. In areas where Christmas celebrations of multiple areas are described in the same heading, perhaps links like United States and Canada and German language in Europe would be appropriate?
Thoughts? -- Joren ( talk) 07:56, 1 February 2010 (UTC)
I have found a minor error in the Hungary paragraph. It states that Santa Claus traditionally has nothing to do with Christmas, as "child Jesus, or the Angel" delivers the present. This is relatively correct, and this used to be the hungarian tradition, yet most people in Hungary don't talk about child Jesus when discussing Christmas events, rather (possibly following the western example ) they mention Santa Claus as the giver of presents on the 24th of December. On the 6th of December, on the other hand, it's "Mikulás" (Nicolas) Who places gifts in children's shoes. It is culturally inconsistent, as both persons are supposed to be the same, but yea......guess the mass media and the influence of western culture doesn't really give a damn to preserve cultural consitency. At any rate, I think it's worth mentioning that nowadays, Santa brings the presents here in Hungary, as far as most people are concerned. The original tradition still features child Jesus though. At least when I was a child, that's what my parents told me. About 14 Years later though, hardly any people mention Jesus, which just kills the whole point of christmas, but this arguement doesn't really belong here thb. Source: Being a hungarian —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.92.203.84 ( talk) 13:16, 3 December 2010 (UTC)
The 7th of January is the Eastern Orthodox Christmas and the official state holiday in Kazakhstan. I think it should be added to the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.59.199.137 ( talk) 23:03, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
I'm reinsertinting information on Italy again.
The information relates to Epiphany celebrations in Italy. As the article ends now, it says celebrations continue to the end of the year and then to Epiphany, but without citing this information. I am adding back information that explains how Epiphany is integral to the Christmas season in Italy, along with citations. The citations are reliable travel sites, and describe customs which take place every year in plain view. They are not controversial. These are not personal sites, and are appropriate references, especially for this topic.
In a seperate issue, I've kept all the information included from the last edit (not made by me), but have rearranged the article a little. New information was added, about the Molise Christmas Eve tradition, and about St. Lucy's day, North and South. This helps organize and interegrate the new information by putting everything in chronological flow: Dec 8, Dec 13, Dec. 24/25, Dec 26, Dec 31/Jan 1, Jan 6, and the customs associated with those days. While an older conceptual template seems to exist back at some level, which we are working over now, that is Italian Christmas by region, it is one that can be incorparated into and organized by chronology. It might be harder to do that the other way around, starting "In Molise", "In Treviso", etc., and jumping from date to date. MattDiClemente ( talk) 23:35, 28 January 2011 (UTC)
Isn't the UK widely considered a part of Northern Europe? It is according to other wikipedia articles. I'd move it myself, but I don't quite know how to delete a section. Tommkin ( talk) 19:01, 11 April 2011 (UTC)
Some Israeli Jews in fact do celebrate Christmas. Therefor your claim in the page, is wrong. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.229.45.251 ( talk) 17:59, 8 October 2011 (UTC)
On 16 November 2011, for some reason, an IP user decided to remove all the <ref> tags in the article, thus causing all the footnotes to be inserted into the middle of the prose. In order to fix this, I reverted the article to the previous version. However, I was unable to figure out what all of the changes that had been made since then consisted of. If anyone else had made good edits which got reverted as part of this, please feel free to restore your good edits, because my reversion was not directed at them. -- Metropolitan90 (talk) 07:31, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
..in the Australian section. Third paragraph. Can't find any refs to this tradition anywhere.....funnily enough. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.161.24.202 ( talk) 10:33, 2 January 2012 (UTC)
I removed the split tag because there was no discussion and if I understood the intentions correctly then the split off articles would not be viable. It may be better if the article formed a table of traditions v country with prose only for an introduction and unusual cases. Some of the information is highly detailed for such a general article. Op47 ( talk) 16:32, 14 April 2012 (UTC)
Could you consider including a section under the UK about the Nine Lessons & Carols tradition? I don't see any mention of church services anywhere in this section. Yip1982 ( talk) 05:57, 5 May 2013 (UTC)
Why the hell are Taiwan and Japan under the point Hong Kong?-- 2.245.72.79 ( talk) 00:15, 1 October 2013 (UTC)
This article has been quite unnecessarily butchered around Christmas time 2013. These facts are not controversial, but quite well know undisputed customs of Christmas celebration. Please do not mass-remove every sentence that doesn’t have an inline citation, just add a citation if indeed is needed and somebody will find those sources. Here, this starts again. And also, some things removed were actually sourced. Hafspajen ( talk) 15:51, 25 January 2014 (UTC)
Such an unusual title change ("Geography"?) requires a discussion on the article talk page which seems like it hasn't occurred yet. I don't see how a holiday has a geography, it's a metaphor which is not appropriate for an article title. Liz Read! Talk! 16:43, 7 April 2014 (UTC)
MAybe, Liz, you take a look at User talk:Drmies# A title, section A title, there is some discussion... Hafspajen ( talk) 17:03, 7 April 2014 (UTC)
Why change Christmas worldwide to Geography of Christmas?? It gives the feeling of climbing around trees, hams and candy- Hafspajen ( talk) 22:13, 6 April 2014 (UTC)
This is a matter that should be taken up with Neelix. I don't have much of an opinion yet, but maybe Neelix can explain: there seem to be significant objections. Drmies ( talk) 04:37, 7 April 2014 (UTC)
I notice that Neelix would support a move to Christmas traditions. Looks like an old redirect-, or? Hafspajen ( talk) 21:18, 7 April 2014 (UTC)
Good joke! By your logic Germany can be described as a part of Polish/Slavic speaking Europe, Turkic speaking Europe or Romani speaking Europe (minorities) huh? 159.134.212.155 ( talk) 21:04, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
Move comment from my talk to generate discussion. Gerda Arendt let me know what you think. Hafspajen ( talk) 21:20, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
Yes, minorities live there, But 1.4.1 is Central Europe - Austria should come first - thus placing the German speaking countries Austria and Germany on top, what's the problem. Hafspajen ( talk) 21:37, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
..Well, it doesn't really suggest that Hungary, Poland, Romania and Moldova are part of "German speaking Europe ... All are part of Central Europe. Hafspajen ( talk) 22:27, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
Silesia? Walter Görlitz ( talk) 05:28, 18 December 2014 (UTC)
Since the article is "protected" I can't fix misspelling of shepherd under Lebanon. 24.111.148.106 ( talk) 00:18, 26 December 2014 (UTC)
Hi,
I'm removing the Yule Log text for Scandinavia. People who believe you can put a whole tree in a fireplace and use it to heat for a week a) have never been inside a log farm house and b) should not edit Wikipedia. The source is an anonymous blog under an online Santa Claus figurine shop. Just saying.
T 2001:4610:A:5E:0:0:0:16E1 ( talk) 23:41, 19 February 2015 (UTC)
Hi, I know it's not an english speaking source, but this is Store Norske Leksikon on "Jul": https://snl.no/jul. No mention of logs. If you want to present the yule log as a Scandinavian custom, you need to provide a RS for that claim. T 2001:4610:A:5E:0:0:0:16E1 ( talk) 23:02, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved. At this time there is not a consensus to rename this article. Jenks24 ( talk) 05:18, 28 December 2015 (UTC)
Christmas traditions →
Christmas customs by country – I already made the move as I thought it would be uncontroversial, but apparently it is controversial and was reverted. How is this an article about "Christmas traditions" if it is basically describing the legal status of Christmas, and whether it is observed, in countries around the world. The section on Malaysia for example: "There has been controversy over whether or not the national government has exerted pressure on Malaysian Christians not to use Christian religious symbols and hymns that specifically mention Jesus Christ". How is this about traditions rather than about a more general article on the status of Christmas around the world? If this article was about traditions it would be a description of the varying traditions at Christmas, not the way countries do or do not legalize/celebrate the holiday. We can create a separate article about Christmas traditions, but this article is not that. In fact it was originally titled
Christmas around the world until it was moved, inappropriately, here.
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This article lacks almost all historical perspective. For instance, Christmas trees became popular in the UK after Prince Albert brought them from Germany; you would never know anything about that. The article should be retitled "Christmas practices as of the early 21st century", or else given some kind of larger historical practice. See WP:Recentism, WP:presentism -- Lquilter ( talk) 15:25, 12 January 2017 (UTC)
There should be an article for every country that celebrates Christmas IMO. -- Bigpoliticsfan ( talk) 22:58, 2 July 2017 (UTC)
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This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
seems to be a lot of origional research and article currently doesn't cite sources.-- Sefringle 03:13, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
It is my first time on wikipedia. I was hoping to add some information on the Christmas in Finland article. I like to tell people about my homeland and wanted to enhance the article. For example, the article states that people light candles on the Christmas tree. I grew up there and visited hundreds and hundreds of friends and families homes and have never seen candles on a tree. Perphaps the article should say that "in the Olden Days they used candles... but now everyone uses Christmas lights". "Traditionally" should not be used in that sentence since it really doesn't happen now (whereas other traditions are still followed to this day). Also, I have never seen or eaten cod fish and think this might be a regional thing. I can certainly research that to find out for sure but I feel that much more popular Christmas foods should be mentioned such as porkkana laatikko, lanttu laatikko (= carrot and rutabaga casseroles), rosolli (= a Christmas salad) as well as maybe joulutorttu (=Christmas star pastry with prune filling). In addition, I think it is awkward to say people in Finland say "Merry Yule". Instead it would be better to say Christmas in Finnish is "Joulu" or Yule. People wish each other "Hyvää Joulua". Thank you. Kirjastotäti ( talk) 16:12, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
On January 13 (locally known as knutdagen), 20 days after Christmas, the Christmas celebrations come to an end and all Christmas decorations are removed.
I spent the winter of 1999-2000 in Ljungby, Sweden and most people kept their Christnas lights up till Shrove Tuesday. I was told this was quite normal. Note I said the lights.
The line, "Santa Claus has nothing to do with the real Christmas story. Santa came in when Christmas go comercialized." really needs to be modified in some way. For now I've deleted it. Some of the christmas symbols are christmas bells and the bible. I am Trying to help my friend so please edit some more some of the drinks are eggnog, hot chocolate and coffee as well as milk. And last but not least the traditions are to leave cookies and milk for santa. as well as go to sleep early. also ice skating and hockey are traditions of chrismas
Ice skating and hockey are simply winter traditions and are not directly associated with Christmas. Many Americans, however may go around their neighborhood Christmas caroling. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.109.38.4 ( talk) 17:45, 4 January 2012 (UTC)
I'm rearranging the article, and I cut this, because it doesn't belong in this page, it belongs in Christmas proper:
-- Carl 09:06, 21 May 2005 (UTC)
Why cannot this go in the article? ~ Also the traditional main meal it is not turkey in the United Kingdom but Roast Goose, as geese are more native and turkey was introduced by American culture. ~Again also, can we please refer from using England to describe the whole of the United Kingdom as in the caption under the image of on Regent Street, London, "England" should be replaced with on Regent Street, London, UK (not that many people will get it confused with London, Kentucky) -- Lemonade100 ( talk) 15:42, 2 November 2008 (GMT)
Advent candles. Three Pink and One Purple is plain wrong. If anything, it is three purple and one pink. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Neely1 ( talk • contribs) 17:16, 27 December 2008 (UTC)
Christmas" is bizarre! You never hear this and never would It doesn't make any sense!! 'Santa' is derived from 'saint' as in Saint Nicholas. 64.208.49.28 ( talk) 13:14, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
I'm not sure why the Bondi stunt is so emphasised. Similar stunts (multiple Santas on milling about on snow skis) occur in Northern Hemisphere countries, and Bondi is a single location on a big continent. Isn't that Bondi thing especially catering for displaced UK and New Zealand tourists and backpackers away from their families so unlikely to be attendeding traditional family gatherings? Most actual Australians would not be at Bondi but instead be at family gatherings. I might try to add something but I'm not sure how to approach it. Original section is below... Asa01 23:22, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
In Commonwealth countries in the southern hemisphere, Christmas is still celebrated on December 25, despite the fact that this is the height of their summer season. This rather clashes with the traditional winter based iconography of Christmas, resulting in anachronisms such as a red fur-coated Santa Claus surfing in for a turkey barbecue on Bondi Beach. The Australian and New Zealand traditions are quite similar to North Americas and The British.
What is the Svyatki (Святки) in Russia about?-- Hhielscher 14:06, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
What's with all the sample images, headline texts and u's? It looks like someone used this article as a sandbox. ChibiKareshi 12:23, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
This photo was at the top of the Germany (or German-speaking Europe) section. But in fact, it has little to do with Christmas, and even fewer with its traditions. You can buy the Pflaumentoffel at Christmas markets, like many other things. From ist history, this thing is linked with children working as chimney sweep. (see: de:Pflaumentoffel). The photo is removed from the article. ---- Schwab7000 ( talk) 13:46, 2 July 2011 (UTC)
Germany most certainly doesn't belong to 'Central Europe' as defined in this article. It ought to be mentioned in the 'Western Europe' section. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.233.220.185 ( talk) 16:14, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
I think someone also needs to check the section on Germany. I'm pretty sure some of the details on the "Krampus" are actually quotations from the "Venture Bros. Christmas Special" which my brother showed me last night after I had mentioned the Krampus. The line about "the Pope casting the Krampus into Purgatory" most definitely comes from the show. It may very well be that the details are correct (I don't personally know much about the Krampus), but the fact that they so closely echo lines from what was essentially a parody of traditional Christmas programming set off a few warning signals in my mind. Macroidtoe 04:18, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
My boyfriend lived in South Korea for seven years, and he's never heard of Santa Claus called "Santa Haraboji." He just said Santa Claus. tweetychick630 22:01, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
It's been proposed that Romanian Christmas traditions be merged into this article. Actually it was also proposed that it be moved here. There seems no proposal to merge (or move) the other articles from Category:Christmas traditions by country, perhaps that's coming, or perhaps it just wasn't very well thought out.
Oppose the merge, anyway. Andrewa 12:32, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
Discuss the merge of the Romanian Christmas traditions article.-- Sefringle 22:45, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
Support The article is a stub, and belongs as a subcategory on this article. As long as it remains a stub, it should be moved.-- Sefringle 07:29, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
I have copied the imformation on the Romanian Christmas traditions article and have put it here. I will nominate that article for deletion soon if appropiate changes are not made soon.-- Sefringle 03:20, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
"Sinterklaas" is not "Santa-ish". Santa Claus is clearly inspired by Sinterklaas.
Someone should look into the regionalization here. For example, Germany is not Northern Europe, while on the other hand, UK and Ukraine (!!) do not belong to Southern Europe. Georgia belongs to Central Asia.
About the traditions in Germany and The Netherlands at Dec 6, they are not largely identical, and the German "Nikolaus"-day does not at all resemble British Christmas (I`m German, so I guess I have a faint idea about this). The Dutch tradition sees Dec 6 as their main event, while in Germany, the "Nikolaus" is a small event; purposefully not celebrated as large as Christmas. It is true that children take their shoes outside (or sometimes stockings), to be filled overnight with a few small sweets or small presents, though.
Also, in Germany are many christmas-figures mixed. It might depend on the region, but there can easily a Christkind (baby Jesus) and Santa Claus exist next to each other.
This page has been vandalised. Under the Japan heading. 67.91.66.218 ( talk) 17:50, 20 December 2007 (UTC)Andre
The headline for Sweden has disappeared, yet underneath the Norwegian entry there is information about Christmas in Sweden. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
81.230.90.194 (
talk)
17:31, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
Can you please write about Christmas in Croatia (December 25), Serbia (January 7), Bosnia and Herzegovina (January 7), Macedonia (January 7)? Armenia as well. They celebrate it on January the 6. -- comment by 67.91.66.218 moved from article page by William Avery ( talk) 11:34, 26 December 2007 (UTC).
I added some stuff about us, the American Jews and our Christmas habits. Feel free to delete anything you don't think is relevant. סרסלי, קײק פּלז ( talk) 08:46, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
This article's been the subject of quite a lot of vandalism. When restoring, please be careful to review recent edits to ensure you restore properly. I'll be keeping an eye on this to see if it needs semi or full protection. -- Dweller ( talk) 12:43, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
Again there has been vandalism between 26 Sept and 28 Sept 2009 by anonymouis users. Can someone revert it? 92.77.140.138 ( talk) 19:17, 30 September 2009 (UTC)
January 2011 - Someone has been randomly removing citations. Don't do this. Then it comes up, that the area of the article needs an appropriate citation, when one already existed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.242.71.27 ( talk) 16:04, 15 January 2011 (UTC)
Joren, I'm sorry but you are getting a little power crazed. You are not in charge here. I replaced the citation with one that meets your stipulation. It was removed, and I have replaced it with yet another one. Both of these meet your original stipulation and are in fact appropriate references. Don't remove them. Don't threaten me or another editor if they are removed, and then replaced again. Don't delegate other editors to threaten me (or another editor) about this issue again.
The orginal reference was appropriate however too. Even though it was a self published site, we will assume that someone who travels and promotes tourism among English speakers to the city of Treviso is in fact an "expert" on the subject. You are not going to find lots and lots of information in English about regional Epiphany folk customs. Wikipedia is that source, because it offers a space where information on topics (of ecyclopedic merit) can be discovered preserved and transmitted regardless of whether other offical channels (news media, publishing companies etc.) consider it significant. Wikipedia is radically democratic in that regard. Furthermore, this again is a folk tradition, and one that happens in open view every single year. When a blog reports on this it is not the same as a blog, say that reports on the author's personal take on the quadratic equation and why it needs to be revamped. First of all there is lots of other objective information on the quadratic equation. (There simply isn't on local relgious customs.) Secondly, a new quadratic equation would be something that might reasonably be considered controversial. This is by no means the case with the information being referenced here. If someone should someday write up on the discussion page, that no, there are not bonfires at Epiphany in Treviso, then we could consider the information in reasonable doubt and the citation in need of verification. (That however will not happen. This information can be multiply referenced and with photographs.) Until that happens however, we should have assumed that the reference was ok for the reasons above. This is not what happened, there was no mention in the talk page, the reference was simply removed. This is what prompted me to start discussion on the talk page - in other words, to pursue propper channels. Here is the original reference for your information thttp://www.blogdolcevita.com/post/2663/epiphany-in-italy-celebrating-la-befana
I am going to urge you to be very sensitive to matters like this in the future. Preserving and documenting culture and traditions are of the greatest important to people everywhere, and have been since before the dawn of time. In one sense, this is not what makes us societies or groups, but what makes us human. In the case of Treviso's particular tradtion, there is in fact no lack of documentation to use here. What about the festival traditions of the Mursi though? Notice we don't see information about them on this page. To find out how they celebrate their holidays and culture, it might take a westerner going in with cameras and crews, and producing an anthropological article at the expense of tens of thousands of dollars. Or not. You see though, by holding otherwise credible information to the standards suggested by some (no self published work, etc.) we discriminate against regional and minority groups. This sounds a great deal like colonialism, cultural and intellctual supression, and very much less like the democracy and freedom which has made wikipedia so hugely popular, and which in fact simply has made it.
We need not recourse to such a dramatic example however. How do Waldensians, in northern Italy or Greco-Albanian Byzantine Catholics in Sicily celebrate Christmas? It is not surprising that this information is not found here, although the article proposes to report on Christmas traditions worldwide, and devotes an entire section to Italy.
Ultimately, I am not going to come up with new references for whatever new stipulations on references gratuitously captious editors may come up with in the future, but simply replace will the reference with one that meets the original stipulation of no self published work. I want you to see the new reference: http://www.trevisoinfo.com/bonfires-veneto.htm This is an official info site on the city. It is an appropriate reference. If it is removed, I will replace it, and then again ask in the talk section that references not be removed, only to be requested. I am not requesting, and certainly do not welcome, a drawn-out discussion on this with you. I simply ask you understand my perspective. "Thanks for understanding." MattDiClemente ( talk) 13:29, 24 January 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by MattDiClemente ( talk • contribs) 13:07, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
Joren, I already told you, I do not want to hear from you anymore. Please don't bother me anymore. I worked on the article because it needed citations. I put citations on the article. They are appropriate and they are there. Find something better to do with your time. If you continue these persecutions over the citations, it must be something personal. — Preceding unsigned comment added by MattDiClemente ( talk • contribs) 17:33, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
"There is more vandalism on this page, and I see the article is semi-protected or I'd fix it myself. During communism, when countries of Central Europe were under Soviet influence, communist authorities strongly pushed Russian traditional Ded Moroz ("Grandfather Frost") in the place of Little Jesus won. Now Santa Claus is attacking, by means of advertising and Hollywood film production." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.131.246.137 ( talk) 13:09, 14 December 2018 (UTC)
The section on Sweden follows under the "Norway" header, with the "Sweden" header missing.
Can't fix myself since the article is locked. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Malesca ( talk • contribs) 18:02, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
Some comments on the Swedish section: "layed" should be "laid"? Is this correct grammar? And a simple typo: "Notrh" should be "North". 84.49.116.43 ( talk) 21:58, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
Thanks. No, porrige is not knocked out.
Warrington ( talk) 22:39, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
The last paragraph under 'Denmark', beginning with "The Christmas feast, in Denmark,..." has a number of issues. The first 3 sentences merely repeat what is already stated above it, except for the mention of good luck, which is a detail I am not familiar with. The rest has a few errors and could be worded better in my opinion. I propose the following paragraph to replace it:
"In Denmark, Santa Claus is known as Julemanden (literally "the Yule Man") and is said to arrive with presents for the children. He is assisted with his Yuletide chores by elves known as julenisser (or simply nisser), who are traditionally believed to live in attics, barns or similar places. In some traditions, to maintain the favor and protection of these nisser, children leave out rice pudding or other treats for them and are delighted to find the food gone on Christmas morning." -- Adcoon ( talk) 14:57, 25 December 2008 (UTC)
Sure
Warrington ( talk) 15:33, 25 December 2008 (UTC)
While 15% of Americans affiliate as non-religious, predominantly of Christian heritage,[citation needed], according to a poll by Fox News, 96% of the people in the United States celebrate Christmas,[6] while only 78% of Americans are observant Christians according to the CIA World Factbook.[7]
Why is it necessary to note this for the US and Canada and no other country? It seems like a meaningless statistic if the point of the article is to note how Christmas is celebrated as a holiday. To do so is to say that the purpose of the celebration of Christmas is strictly as a religious observance
--
Eddylyons (
talk)
01:53, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
Noticed that today, links to some (but not all) countries were removed, citing WP:Overlink. I mainly wanted to post to see if there was existing consensus as far as which countries to link to and which not to. (It seemed odd to me that Israel is linked while Japan is now unlinked...is there a specific guideline being followed?)
My 2 cents... I believe it is useful and not over-linking to have one (and only one) link in each country's section to the country it is named for. However, references to other countries in the section should NOT be linked to. E.g. in the section on Bangladesh, Bangladesh should be linked, but India should not. National links are relevant in that Christmas celebrations are very much dependent on the culture of said countries, and is likely to be a springboard for wanting to click through to articles about those cultures. (at least in this article, I have clicked through myself to many of these links). I also think it would be wise where possible/relevant to link to articles about the country's culture in preference to the country itself. In areas where Christmas celebrations of multiple areas are described in the same heading, perhaps links like United States and Canada and German language in Europe would be appropriate?
Thoughts? -- Joren ( talk) 07:56, 1 February 2010 (UTC)
I have found a minor error in the Hungary paragraph. It states that Santa Claus traditionally has nothing to do with Christmas, as "child Jesus, or the Angel" delivers the present. This is relatively correct, and this used to be the hungarian tradition, yet most people in Hungary don't talk about child Jesus when discussing Christmas events, rather (possibly following the western example ) they mention Santa Claus as the giver of presents on the 24th of December. On the 6th of December, on the other hand, it's "Mikulás" (Nicolas) Who places gifts in children's shoes. It is culturally inconsistent, as both persons are supposed to be the same, but yea......guess the mass media and the influence of western culture doesn't really give a damn to preserve cultural consitency. At any rate, I think it's worth mentioning that nowadays, Santa brings the presents here in Hungary, as far as most people are concerned. The original tradition still features child Jesus though. At least when I was a child, that's what my parents told me. About 14 Years later though, hardly any people mention Jesus, which just kills the whole point of christmas, but this arguement doesn't really belong here thb. Source: Being a hungarian —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.92.203.84 ( talk) 13:16, 3 December 2010 (UTC)
The 7th of January is the Eastern Orthodox Christmas and the official state holiday in Kazakhstan. I think it should be added to the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.59.199.137 ( talk) 23:03, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
I'm reinsertinting information on Italy again.
The information relates to Epiphany celebrations in Italy. As the article ends now, it says celebrations continue to the end of the year and then to Epiphany, but without citing this information. I am adding back information that explains how Epiphany is integral to the Christmas season in Italy, along with citations. The citations are reliable travel sites, and describe customs which take place every year in plain view. They are not controversial. These are not personal sites, and are appropriate references, especially for this topic.
In a seperate issue, I've kept all the information included from the last edit (not made by me), but have rearranged the article a little. New information was added, about the Molise Christmas Eve tradition, and about St. Lucy's day, North and South. This helps organize and interegrate the new information by putting everything in chronological flow: Dec 8, Dec 13, Dec. 24/25, Dec 26, Dec 31/Jan 1, Jan 6, and the customs associated with those days. While an older conceptual template seems to exist back at some level, which we are working over now, that is Italian Christmas by region, it is one that can be incorparated into and organized by chronology. It might be harder to do that the other way around, starting "In Molise", "In Treviso", etc., and jumping from date to date. MattDiClemente ( talk) 23:35, 28 January 2011 (UTC)
Isn't the UK widely considered a part of Northern Europe? It is according to other wikipedia articles. I'd move it myself, but I don't quite know how to delete a section. Tommkin ( talk) 19:01, 11 April 2011 (UTC)
Some Israeli Jews in fact do celebrate Christmas. Therefor your claim in the page, is wrong. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.229.45.251 ( talk) 17:59, 8 October 2011 (UTC)
On 16 November 2011, for some reason, an IP user decided to remove all the <ref> tags in the article, thus causing all the footnotes to be inserted into the middle of the prose. In order to fix this, I reverted the article to the previous version. However, I was unable to figure out what all of the changes that had been made since then consisted of. If anyone else had made good edits which got reverted as part of this, please feel free to restore your good edits, because my reversion was not directed at them. -- Metropolitan90 (talk) 07:31, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
..in the Australian section. Third paragraph. Can't find any refs to this tradition anywhere.....funnily enough. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.161.24.202 ( talk) 10:33, 2 January 2012 (UTC)
I removed the split tag because there was no discussion and if I understood the intentions correctly then the split off articles would not be viable. It may be better if the article formed a table of traditions v country with prose only for an introduction and unusual cases. Some of the information is highly detailed for such a general article. Op47 ( talk) 16:32, 14 April 2012 (UTC)
Could you consider including a section under the UK about the Nine Lessons & Carols tradition? I don't see any mention of church services anywhere in this section. Yip1982 ( talk) 05:57, 5 May 2013 (UTC)
Why the hell are Taiwan and Japan under the point Hong Kong?-- 2.245.72.79 ( talk) 00:15, 1 October 2013 (UTC)
This article has been quite unnecessarily butchered around Christmas time 2013. These facts are not controversial, but quite well know undisputed customs of Christmas celebration. Please do not mass-remove every sentence that doesn’t have an inline citation, just add a citation if indeed is needed and somebody will find those sources. Here, this starts again. And also, some things removed were actually sourced. Hafspajen ( talk) 15:51, 25 January 2014 (UTC)
Such an unusual title change ("Geography"?) requires a discussion on the article talk page which seems like it hasn't occurred yet. I don't see how a holiday has a geography, it's a metaphor which is not appropriate for an article title. Liz Read! Talk! 16:43, 7 April 2014 (UTC)
MAybe, Liz, you take a look at User talk:Drmies# A title, section A title, there is some discussion... Hafspajen ( talk) 17:03, 7 April 2014 (UTC)
Why change Christmas worldwide to Geography of Christmas?? It gives the feeling of climbing around trees, hams and candy- Hafspajen ( talk) 22:13, 6 April 2014 (UTC)
This is a matter that should be taken up with Neelix. I don't have much of an opinion yet, but maybe Neelix can explain: there seem to be significant objections. Drmies ( talk) 04:37, 7 April 2014 (UTC)
I notice that Neelix would support a move to Christmas traditions. Looks like an old redirect-, or? Hafspajen ( talk) 21:18, 7 April 2014 (UTC)
Good joke! By your logic Germany can be described as a part of Polish/Slavic speaking Europe, Turkic speaking Europe or Romani speaking Europe (minorities) huh? 159.134.212.155 ( talk) 21:04, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
Move comment from my talk to generate discussion. Gerda Arendt let me know what you think. Hafspajen ( talk) 21:20, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
Yes, minorities live there, But 1.4.1 is Central Europe - Austria should come first - thus placing the German speaking countries Austria and Germany on top, what's the problem. Hafspajen ( talk) 21:37, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
..Well, it doesn't really suggest that Hungary, Poland, Romania and Moldova are part of "German speaking Europe ... All are part of Central Europe. Hafspajen ( talk) 22:27, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
Silesia? Walter Görlitz ( talk) 05:28, 18 December 2014 (UTC)
Since the article is "protected" I can't fix misspelling of shepherd under Lebanon. 24.111.148.106 ( talk) 00:18, 26 December 2014 (UTC)
Hi,
I'm removing the Yule Log text for Scandinavia. People who believe you can put a whole tree in a fireplace and use it to heat for a week a) have never been inside a log farm house and b) should not edit Wikipedia. The source is an anonymous blog under an online Santa Claus figurine shop. Just saying.
T 2001:4610:A:5E:0:0:0:16E1 ( talk) 23:41, 19 February 2015 (UTC)
Hi, I know it's not an english speaking source, but this is Store Norske Leksikon on "Jul": https://snl.no/jul. No mention of logs. If you want to present the yule log as a Scandinavian custom, you need to provide a RS for that claim. T 2001:4610:A:5E:0:0:0:16E1 ( talk) 23:02, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved. At this time there is not a consensus to rename this article. Jenks24 ( talk) 05:18, 28 December 2015 (UTC)
Christmas traditions →
Christmas customs by country – I already made the move as I thought it would be uncontroversial, but apparently it is controversial and was reverted. How is this an article about "Christmas traditions" if it is basically describing the legal status of Christmas, and whether it is observed, in countries around the world. The section on Malaysia for example: "There has been controversy over whether or not the national government has exerted pressure on Malaysian Christians not to use Christian religious symbols and hymns that specifically mention Jesus Christ". How is this about traditions rather than about a more general article on the status of Christmas around the world? If this article was about traditions it would be a description of the varying traditions at Christmas, not the way countries do or do not legalize/celebrate the holiday. We can create a separate article about Christmas traditions, but this article is not that. In fact it was originally titled
Christmas around the world until it was moved, inappropriately, here.
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This article lacks almost all historical perspective. For instance, Christmas trees became popular in the UK after Prince Albert brought them from Germany; you would never know anything about that. The article should be retitled "Christmas practices as of the early 21st century", or else given some kind of larger historical practice. See WP:Recentism, WP:presentism -- Lquilter ( talk) 15:25, 12 January 2017 (UTC)
There should be an article for every country that celebrates Christmas IMO. -- Bigpoliticsfan ( talk) 22:58, 2 July 2017 (UTC)
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