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There's sources saying she's 68 as well, including the Globe and Mail, Reuters, Winnipeg Free Press...: [1] Connormah ( talk) 19:12, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
Where is there any source saying she was born in 1942? PARLINFO says 1943, and the supposed sources for Sept 1, 1942, only say she is 68. They may know for a fact that her birthday was earlier in the year or they may just be subtracting 1943 from 2011. The CBC saying she was 67 as of Jul 30 could mean they actually know her birthday had not passed as of that date, it could mean they looked at file information from the election earlier this year saying she was 67 and carried it forward, or it could mean they did their sums wrong. In any event, there is no evidence whatever for the proposition she was born on Sept 1, 1942. The only affirmative statement of her birthdate is PARLINFO, and each of the other sources can be reconciled with it. - Rrius ( talk) 03:27, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
I would like to step back, and look at the bigger picture again. Both sides have claimed there are multiple articles supporting their number. I have performed multiple Google News searches for Nycole Turmel between July 25 and August 1, 2011. 1 says she is 67 ( CBC News), 4 say she is 68 ( The Globe and Mail, National Post, Radio-Canada, l'Écho du Nord/canoe.ca), 2 say she was born September 1, 1942 ( Edition Beauce, Tornonto Sun/Reuters), 1 says she was born in 1943 ( straight.com), and the (what should be official source) Parliament of Canada says born in 1943. If we chalk up the first article as bad math, the next four place her birthdate between August 2, 1942, and July 24, 1943, which can support both dates. We all agree that the Parliament of Canada is a valid reliable source, but are Edition Beauce (which admits it took its photo from Wikipedia) and the Toronto Sun valid? 117Avenue ( talk) 00:14, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
I don't know when she was born. I don't know how Wikipedia should handle this pending more information. I'm equally frustrated by the fact that she was Associate President (Labour) of the party for two (I assume) years, which may have been 1997-9, but the federal party has never yet published a full bio on her. The Parliamentary website has only what someone (?) told them, which is only a year when it should be a full date, and is therefore suspect. The reason I thought the Edition Beauce article must be accurate is that it was a telephone interview with Nycole Turmel herself. But that doesn't prove they checked the date with her, they may have gotten it from Wikipedia. So I remain confused. Wait for clarification, I say. Wilfred Day ( talk) 01:52, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
Did any of the news today mention her birthdate? 117Avenue ( talk) 02:00, 23 August 2011 (UTC)
Now I'm really glad I sent that e-mail. Here's the response I got:
Parlinfo has since been corrected, so we can put this behind us. I chalk this up as a win for Wikipedia. Our push for well-sourced information has actually improved a source. I love when that happens. - Rrius ( talk) 20:04, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
Turmel is properly called the "Interim" Leader of the NDP, and has been since July 28. The main argument for "acting" appears to be its use at PARLINFO, but that is not the definitive source for this question: the NDP is. The following NDP statements all call her "Interim Leader": Layton's statement announcing his leave, Turmel's statement after being appointed Interim Leader, a statement calling her "Interim Leader" in the title, and a similar one. Layton's Letter to Canadians also calls her such. - Rrius ( talk) 05:00, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
Also, this seems to be an editorial choice at PARLINFO rather than a one-off terminology difference with the NDP. The Liberal Party, in its constitution, statements, and the like, uses "Interim Leader", but PARLINFO uses the "(Acting)" formulation just as it does for Turmel. [2] [3] [4] - Rrius ( talk) 05:26, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
The introduction says "Turmel is a long-time unionist". Does this mean "unionist" in the political sense, or "trade unionist"? Deb ( talk) 18:44, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
By undoing my edits CjCurrie has put mistakes in this article: 1) Ms. Turmel's bill does not seek to give full National Park status to Gatineau Park. Bill C-565 seeks to amend the National Capital Act; 2) the source given for the criticisms is valid: Le Droit is a recognized French-language Ottawa Daily; and Philippe Orfali is a well-known parliamentary reporter. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.27.141.124 ( talk) 19:58, 31 December 2013 (UTC)
Okay: I'll re-write under political career. I'll say the bill received support from the organizations mentioned in Le Droit. However, I disagree with CJCurrie's statement "The wording that I restored does not assert that Bill C-565 grants full National Park status to Gatineau Park. It rather asserts that Turmel's 2011 campaign focused on securing full National Park status for Gatineau Park. These statements are not the same thing." That's nonsense. If Ms. Turmel was seeking to secure full National Park status, she would have advocated amending the National Parks Act. She never did that. The title of her bill: "An Act to amend the National Capital Act (Gatineau Park) and to make a related amendment to the Department of Canadian Heritage Act." Saying she wants full National Park status is not only wrong, it's misleading. Below, please find a copy of her press release on the issue from the 2011 campaign. Mistakes and all. Nowhere does it mention she wants to create a national park.
PRESS RELEASE Friday, April 15, 2011 For immediateg release Protection for Gatineau Park
Nycole Turmel wants to table a bill as her first action as MP
GATINEAU – The NDP candidate for Hull-Aylmer, Nycole Turmel, is committing to make the protection of the boundaries of Gatineau Park, the centre of the first bill she will table to the House of Commons following the federal elections. “It’s been six years since Ed Broadbent tried, for the first time, to give Gatineau Park a legislative framework giving it the same protection as a national park. It is now time to make it happen,” believes the NDP candidate. She says her bill will put an end to future development projects and will protect the integrity of the territory as delimited in 1960, and will also include grandfather clauses protecting the property of the current residents of the Park and will not give the National Capital Commission a right of first refusal when a property comes up for sale.
Turmel disagrees with the wait-and-see attitude that has been showed by her Hull-Aylmer Liberal opponent, Marcel Proulx. In its June 9, 2009 edition, the newspaper Le Droit reported that for Marcel Proulx, some concepts stated in Bill C-34 (sic: Note: It was C-37), tabled by the Conservatives and later diluted before being abandoned because of the prorogation, were worrying him, “be it the idea of ‘user rights’, the designation of ‘national interest lands’ or the preservation of the ecological integrity” of Gatineau Park.”
“Gatineau Park will be continuously under the threat of the developers if we were to adopt Marcel Proulx’ attitude,” says Turmel. “It is obvious that the protection of Gatineau Park cannot be half-protected. The people of Hull-Aylmer want to increase protection, and they want it now. It is clear that we must preserve the ecological integrity of this territory and that they are national interest lands. The user rights must be included in such a legislation if we want to give it some teeth.”
A poll published in Le Droit in April 2009 revealed that a legislation to protect Gatineau Park was supported by 86%of the residents while in March 2006, a Decima-Ottawa Citizen poll showed 82% of the Ottawa region population agreed that it should receive national park status.
Senator Mira Spivak and Ottawa-Centre NDP MP Paul Dewar also tried in the past to have such legislation adopted, without success. According to Turmel, such an initiative coming from a Hull-Aylmer MP would have a lot more weight. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.27.142.248 ( talk) 19:07, 1 January 2014 (UTC)
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There's sources saying she's 68 as well, including the Globe and Mail, Reuters, Winnipeg Free Press...: [1] Connormah ( talk) 19:12, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
Where is there any source saying she was born in 1942? PARLINFO says 1943, and the supposed sources for Sept 1, 1942, only say she is 68. They may know for a fact that her birthday was earlier in the year or they may just be subtracting 1943 from 2011. The CBC saying she was 67 as of Jul 30 could mean they actually know her birthday had not passed as of that date, it could mean they looked at file information from the election earlier this year saying she was 67 and carried it forward, or it could mean they did their sums wrong. In any event, there is no evidence whatever for the proposition she was born on Sept 1, 1942. The only affirmative statement of her birthdate is PARLINFO, and each of the other sources can be reconciled with it. - Rrius ( talk) 03:27, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
I would like to step back, and look at the bigger picture again. Both sides have claimed there are multiple articles supporting their number. I have performed multiple Google News searches for Nycole Turmel between July 25 and August 1, 2011. 1 says she is 67 ( CBC News), 4 say she is 68 ( The Globe and Mail, National Post, Radio-Canada, l'Écho du Nord/canoe.ca), 2 say she was born September 1, 1942 ( Edition Beauce, Tornonto Sun/Reuters), 1 says she was born in 1943 ( straight.com), and the (what should be official source) Parliament of Canada says born in 1943. If we chalk up the first article as bad math, the next four place her birthdate between August 2, 1942, and July 24, 1943, which can support both dates. We all agree that the Parliament of Canada is a valid reliable source, but are Edition Beauce (which admits it took its photo from Wikipedia) and the Toronto Sun valid? 117Avenue ( talk) 00:14, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
I don't know when she was born. I don't know how Wikipedia should handle this pending more information. I'm equally frustrated by the fact that she was Associate President (Labour) of the party for two (I assume) years, which may have been 1997-9, but the federal party has never yet published a full bio on her. The Parliamentary website has only what someone (?) told them, which is only a year when it should be a full date, and is therefore suspect. The reason I thought the Edition Beauce article must be accurate is that it was a telephone interview with Nycole Turmel herself. But that doesn't prove they checked the date with her, they may have gotten it from Wikipedia. So I remain confused. Wait for clarification, I say. Wilfred Day ( talk) 01:52, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
Did any of the news today mention her birthdate? 117Avenue ( talk) 02:00, 23 August 2011 (UTC)
Now I'm really glad I sent that e-mail. Here's the response I got:
Parlinfo has since been corrected, so we can put this behind us. I chalk this up as a win for Wikipedia. Our push for well-sourced information has actually improved a source. I love when that happens. - Rrius ( talk) 20:04, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
Turmel is properly called the "Interim" Leader of the NDP, and has been since July 28. The main argument for "acting" appears to be its use at PARLINFO, but that is not the definitive source for this question: the NDP is. The following NDP statements all call her "Interim Leader": Layton's statement announcing his leave, Turmel's statement after being appointed Interim Leader, a statement calling her "Interim Leader" in the title, and a similar one. Layton's Letter to Canadians also calls her such. - Rrius ( talk) 05:00, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
Also, this seems to be an editorial choice at PARLINFO rather than a one-off terminology difference with the NDP. The Liberal Party, in its constitution, statements, and the like, uses "Interim Leader", but PARLINFO uses the "(Acting)" formulation just as it does for Turmel. [2] [3] [4] - Rrius ( talk) 05:26, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
The introduction says "Turmel is a long-time unionist". Does this mean "unionist" in the political sense, or "trade unionist"? Deb ( talk) 18:44, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
By undoing my edits CjCurrie has put mistakes in this article: 1) Ms. Turmel's bill does not seek to give full National Park status to Gatineau Park. Bill C-565 seeks to amend the National Capital Act; 2) the source given for the criticisms is valid: Le Droit is a recognized French-language Ottawa Daily; and Philippe Orfali is a well-known parliamentary reporter. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.27.141.124 ( talk) 19:58, 31 December 2013 (UTC)
Okay: I'll re-write under political career. I'll say the bill received support from the organizations mentioned in Le Droit. However, I disagree with CJCurrie's statement "The wording that I restored does not assert that Bill C-565 grants full National Park status to Gatineau Park. It rather asserts that Turmel's 2011 campaign focused on securing full National Park status for Gatineau Park. These statements are not the same thing." That's nonsense. If Ms. Turmel was seeking to secure full National Park status, she would have advocated amending the National Parks Act. She never did that. The title of her bill: "An Act to amend the National Capital Act (Gatineau Park) and to make a related amendment to the Department of Canadian Heritage Act." Saying she wants full National Park status is not only wrong, it's misleading. Below, please find a copy of her press release on the issue from the 2011 campaign. Mistakes and all. Nowhere does it mention she wants to create a national park.
PRESS RELEASE Friday, April 15, 2011 For immediateg release Protection for Gatineau Park
Nycole Turmel wants to table a bill as her first action as MP
GATINEAU – The NDP candidate for Hull-Aylmer, Nycole Turmel, is committing to make the protection of the boundaries of Gatineau Park, the centre of the first bill she will table to the House of Commons following the federal elections. “It’s been six years since Ed Broadbent tried, for the first time, to give Gatineau Park a legislative framework giving it the same protection as a national park. It is now time to make it happen,” believes the NDP candidate. She says her bill will put an end to future development projects and will protect the integrity of the territory as delimited in 1960, and will also include grandfather clauses protecting the property of the current residents of the Park and will not give the National Capital Commission a right of first refusal when a property comes up for sale.
Turmel disagrees with the wait-and-see attitude that has been showed by her Hull-Aylmer Liberal opponent, Marcel Proulx. In its June 9, 2009 edition, the newspaper Le Droit reported that for Marcel Proulx, some concepts stated in Bill C-34 (sic: Note: It was C-37), tabled by the Conservatives and later diluted before being abandoned because of the prorogation, were worrying him, “be it the idea of ‘user rights’, the designation of ‘national interest lands’ or the preservation of the ecological integrity” of Gatineau Park.”
“Gatineau Park will be continuously under the threat of the developers if we were to adopt Marcel Proulx’ attitude,” says Turmel. “It is obvious that the protection of Gatineau Park cannot be half-protected. The people of Hull-Aylmer want to increase protection, and they want it now. It is clear that we must preserve the ecological integrity of this territory and that they are national interest lands. The user rights must be included in such a legislation if we want to give it some teeth.”
A poll published in Le Droit in April 2009 revealed that a legislation to protect Gatineau Park was supported by 86%of the residents while in March 2006, a Decima-Ottawa Citizen poll showed 82% of the Ottawa region population agreed that it should receive national park status.
Senator Mira Spivak and Ottawa-Centre NDP MP Paul Dewar also tried in the past to have such legislation adopted, without success. According to Turmel, such an initiative coming from a Hull-Aylmer MP would have a lot more weight. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.27.142.248 ( talk) 19:07, 1 January 2014 (UTC)
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