This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Nuclear weapons of the United Kingdom article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Nuclear weapons of the United Kingdom has been listed as one of the Warfare good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||
Nuclear weapons of the United Kingdom is the main article in the Nuclear weapons and the United Kingdom series, a featured topic. This is identified as among the best series of articles produced by the Wikipedia community. If you can update or improve it, please do so. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article is rated A-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
On 6 December 2023, it was proposed that this article be moved to United Kingdom and nuclear weapons. The result of the discussion was not moved. |
An abridged copy of the papers presented at the Royal Aeronautical Society Symposium on Chevaline 2004 and subsequently published as ISBN 1-85768-109-6 is available as a free email download (approx 450kb zipped-up) from Brian.Burnell Contact via wiki email facility on User page. Brian.Burnell 01:09, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
I just added a link [1] to a well researched table of UK nuclear weapons systems / bomb models. At some future point, someone with some bandwidth should take that and its source materials and expand the article out. Georgewilliamherbert 06:51, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
This is a nice article but I am hesitant to approve it with so many sections listed as being stubs. Several sections are both stubs and have links to a Main Article this is probably redundant since a section with a main article should be little more than a stub. Eluchil404 21:46, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
Cheung1303 04:50, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
I have added a section regarding the recently released documents for the 1979 Warsaw Pact plan "Seven Days to the River Rhine", and have noted the lack of nuclear strikes on France and the United Kingdom. A relevant news story is: http://www.guardian.co.uk/russia/article/0,2763,1651315,00.html#article_continue
I have also noted how the UK and French strategies regarding "Counter Value" nuclear strikes may have influenced the lack of strikes on both nations. I cannot claim inspiration or originality regarding this position, as I have seen it put forth on several discussion fora.
-- Wbd 17:03, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
Was already there in the following section headed 'Number of Warheads'. Two citations were supplied; the Strategic Defence Review and one other. Brian.Burnell 18:11, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
'Failure' was a common misconception based on folk-tales with no research evidence in support. What evidence there is suggests that the reason for cancellation was not because of project 'failure' but because military requirements had changed and had been changing rapidly. Like all similar land-based liquid-fuelled ballistic missiles sited close to coastlines, or the Eastern European launch sites of the USSR, Blue Streak was vulnerable to a pre-emptive attack, because of the time needed to fuel the weapon. An added factor was the unsuitability of British geology and geography for silo construction. Such sites need to be in the centre of large land-masses, remote from large population centres; not possible in a small overcrowded island. The same military logic led to the removal of UK-based Thor IRBMs and Jupiter IRBMs based in Italy and Turkey. Because they were just too vulnerable. Blue Streak went on to a successful second career as the first-stage booster for a European collaborative programme of civil satellite launches. The withdrawal of Jupiter IRBMs was implicated in a tit-for-tat deal after the Cuban Missile Crisis. But the Jupiters were militarily worthless anyway. Use of the word 'failure' suggests to me a partisan POV. Brian.Burnell 18:36, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
All of this POV section was based on the false premise that UK targetting policy was a so-called 'Counter-Value' strategy. Consequently the whole passage was speculative and promoting a POV, which was not sustained by any evidence. It is now known from material declassified in relation to the Chevaline project, and elsewhere, that the UK never adopted any strategy other than one designed to 'decapitate' the Soviet leadership in Moscow. The 'Moscow Criteria' referred to elsewhere in this article and duly cited to hard evidence of its veracity demolishes the speculation about 'Counter-Value', entertaining though it was. Brian.Burnell 16:00, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
http://63.99.108.76/forums/index.php?showtopic=13477&hl=seven+days+to+the+river+rhine
“ | If you don't want your writing to be edited mercilessly or redistributed by others do not submit it. | ” |
-- Wbd 15:06, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
Removed Section Arghh...I've somehow gone very wrong here. I have removed the entire section and agree with your critique. Please accept my apologies for the troubles caused, as I have caused you and others trouble undeservedly. Whatever viewpoints that were NPOV that I placed in the article do not belong, and those that were POV definitely needed removal.
Thank-you for pointing these issues out.
-- Wbd 16:51, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
I'm happy to be able to help. But if I'd had the foresight to illustrate it with the Chevaline example sooner it could have been acheived with less anst for both of us. Maury Markowitz has recently completed an excellent rewrite of the Chevaline article that I can recommend for its insight into targetting strategy. Regards
Brian.Burnell
15:05, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
I have serious doubts about the suitability of this passage for inclusion. Wikipedia is not a political pamphlet, its an encyclopaedia, and a passage promoting a recent speech by a prominent politician seems to me to be too much like political posturing for my personal taste. Perhaps the best place for it might be a biog of Brown? Would others out there like to justify its continued inclusion? Brian.Burnell 17:18, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
It may be true that a Windows-based system has been installed recently, but there is no evidence presented that this minor change is in any way related to replacement plans for Trident (if they yet exist). It is quite normal in the lifespan of all weapon systems for aged components to be replaced; often by more modern components than before. The reason for this can be no more sinister than that the older components are no longer being produced. One example being Windows XP SP1, whose upgrades and support will cease in Oct 2006 for all users, military and civilian. The passage is simply not relevant to the debate about Trident replacement, which is unlikely to take effect before 2025. Use of the word 'probably' is also indicative of the provenance of the passage. Wikipedia is an encyclopaedia, not a soapbox. It requires content to be verifiable. Speculation, however well-intentioned does not belong here, because by its very nature, speculation is not verifiable. Brian.Burnell 10:31, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
This page is titled Nuclear weapons and the United Kingdom and its purpose is to give an overview of British nuclear weapons history from inception to the present day. What is not its purpose is to duplicate the Trident missile page, although the Trident system should of course feature in any well-balanced article about the United Kingdom's nuclear weapons. Nor is its purpose is to be a platform for a section about ship/submarine control software. However well-written or informative that section may be, it is irrelevant to the subject matter of Nuclear weapons and the United Kingdom and should be located elsewhere. On a dedicated page. From a careful reading of the text (and its links to other places) inserted here on the Windows control system it becomes clear, even to a non-specialist, that this has nothing whatsoever to do with either nuclear weapons, or their delivery systems, or their targetting or launch procedures. The Windows system is a purely ship and submarine control system that is NOT unique to the Vanguard class SSBNs, but is a system common to many types of vessel, some conventionally-powered, some not; some are armed with conventional weapons only, some like the Vanguard class are not; some are nuclear-powered submarines, and some are surface vessels, eg, frigates and destroyers. Some are of the British Royal Navy, and others are Dutch, Italian, German etc. These states do not possess nuclear weapons or nuclear-powered vessels, yet use this Windows-based operating system for some of their ships. Nor is this page the appropriate place to elaborate on the merits or lack of merit of the Windows operating system, that has no connection whatsoever with British nuclear weapons.
It is absolutely clear that this section on Windows for Warhips is completely irrelevant to the Nuclear weapons and the United Kingdom page. The page is not a vehicle for those with some kind of axe to grind about a topic that should be located elsewhere. The Windows section unbalances this page and it is a misuse of this article to repeatedly place it here after having the issues discussed earlier at great length, and solutions suggested for suitable links to a dedicated page. In that sense it is bordering on vandalism IMHO. Brian.Burnell 09:43, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
The reference to BAE Sytems is likewise unverifiable. No citable source is offered for the assertion that BAe is "one of the most powerful lobbyists ...". It may well be a perfectly reasonable view to hold; but Wikipedia is not a soapbox for such views, or of opposing views. The proper place for these is elsewhere, perhaps in a political pamphlet. Wikipedia is for encyclopaedic, verifiable content. Of course no contributor can ever be free of political bias, especially about such a contentious issue as Trident. But unless we strive to avoid using Wiki as a soapbox it will quickly degenerate into a forum where two opposing viewpoints crowd out all information that does not support their viewpoint. I note that the above passage ref 'Trident and Gordon Brown' posted one month ago dated 10 Aug 2006 has not attracted a single comment from contributors in favour of retaining it. Brian.Burnell 10:31, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
There is no evidence that the changes referred to are in any way connected with plans to replace Trident, which will not expire of old age until around 2025. There is no evidence that replacement plans even exist. Any assertion that there are such plans can only be speculation and unverifiable to the standards that Wikipedia requires. The software changes referred to are possibly no more than a routine replacement of worn-out equipment such as happens as a matter of course with all aging machinery. See above at 'Probably the first use of Microsoft Windows ...' If there is any hard evidence that the replacement software is in any way a neccessary precursor for replacement of the whole missile and submarine system then produce it, and the deleted material can be reinstated as compliant with Wikis requirements for verifiable encyclopaedic content. Wiki is not a soapbox for POV. Brian.Burnell 23:21, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
Well, because of the highly classified nature of these programmes, it is a little difficult to produce hard evidence of this kind from public sources. The few openly available references I am able to produce (Hansard, company news releases, etc) you keep removing, which makes it difficult for others to look up what limited source material is available. Shlgww 07:28, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
Has never been one of massive retaliation. The UK has never possessed sufficient bombs to permit that strategy. Since Polaris, and probably earlier, strategy has followed three paths. First, the UK strategic and tactical weapons since 1960 or earlier were assigned to NATO, and SACEUR determined targetting plans (with input from UK staffs). That was true of the V-bombers weapons and is still true today. Second, in the unlikely situation where the UK launched a strike without allied support, the only strategic strategy was the so-called 'Moscvow Criteria' where the intention was to decapitate the Soviet leadership concentrated around Moscow, leaving the remaining USSR untouched and hopefully detached from the regime. To do that it was necessary to defeat the ABM defences protecting Moscow (but nowhere else). That was the raison-d'etre for the Chevaline project, that was not needed for any other targetting plan. It seems unlikely that that targetting strategy has changed significantly; although we are unlikely to have hard evidence for many years yet. Thirdly, the free-fall bombs deployed with the RAF and Royal Navy were also able to be used as a sub-strategic weapon against less well-defended targets on the periphery of the USSR or elsewhere. Nothing has changed since these bombs were retired, and their functions as a sub-strategic deterrent have been assigned to Trident missiles equipped with a suitable low-yield warhead. Note though that the 'sub-strategic' WE.177 warheads ranged from a minimum of 10 kilotons to 200 kt and 450 kt, depending on model used. Note also that 'sub-strategic' can mean many things; eg. there are declassified plans in the PRO for a tactical (or sub-strategic) strike from Navy carriers at ports on the coast of Burma should the UK's committments to SEATO be invoked by a Chinese attack into Vietnam or SE Asia. Burma is not usually regarded as worthy of such a strike, and doubtless there were other plans. Brian.Burnell 16:18, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
The phase was inserted in good faith to illustrate how public opinion as expressed by the quality press, has changed since the 1954 decision to develop a British thermonuclear weapon. Although it could perhaps have been better phased, the purpose of illustrating changing public opinion is a perfectly legitimate objective in the context of the narrative. Hopefully, the changes made and the additional references provided will meet with Palpatine's approval. Brian.Burnell 17:38, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
I'm not sure I agree with the link to tactical weapons in the first section. As I understand it, a 'sub-strategic' attack today would use reduced-yield strategic weapons against specific (probably political) targets. This is slightly different to the battlefield deployment of low-yield tactical nuclear weaponry against military formations/targets. I think 'sub-strategic' and 'tactical' are not the same thing, but easily confused. Can I suggest that a link to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_warfare#sub-strategic might be better? Betdud 13:51, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
Someone has deleted this external reference:
Why? Vernon White (talk) 18:22, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
There doesnt seem to be any mention of the signigicant testing of atomic weapons in Australia. This was agreed to by Robert Menzies, the Australian Prime Minsister at the time. Significant numbers of above ground tests were carried out at Maralinga and other locations in South Australia. These resulted in significant radiation exposure to Australian and UK servicemen, and local Aboriginal people. I do not have the details, but someone may like to include this information. Patrats 06:15, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
There is an article British nuclear tests at Maralinga, however this page should reference it in the section about tests, as it was a significant part of the UK test programme. It should also mention either in the test section, or possible the politics section below the details of the ongoing saga over compensation for service personnel who suffered significant health problems as a result, and are currently still seeking compensation from the Uk gvt. This is seen as a significant issue in Australia, and deserves a mention on this page in my opinion. I would be tempted to write it myself, but am alreadty struggling to catch up with all the ongoing pages I am working on, I really don't think i can get involved in another new project at this time. Anyone who is more oriented to the nuclear subject want to volunteer? Rac fleming 07:54, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
Am I alone in thinking that we should include mention of domestic opposition to nuclear weapons and CND in particular? I would think that at least passing reference to these would be useful context for the article (which is terrific by the way).-- Smcgrother 18:35, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
Am I the only one who reckons there is far too much use of the prase (propaganda slogan ?) nuclear deterrent in these articles. Other countries have nuclear weapons or (if not our friends) weapons of mass destruction but only the UK has a nuclear deterrent ! 213.40.226.94 ( talk) 16:12, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
this section-
"A submarine's load of warheads were reduced from 96 to 48. This reduced the explosive power of the warheads on a Vanguard class Trident submarine to "one third less than a Polaris submarine armed with Chevaline." However, a fact that the 1998 Strategic Defence Review glosses over is that 48 warheads per Trident submarine represents a 50% increase on the 32 warheads per submarine of Chevaline. Total explosive power has been in decline for decades as the accuracy of missiles has improved, therefore requiring less power to destroy each target. Trident can destroy 48 targets per submarine, as opposed to 32 targets that could be destroyed by Chevaline."
The bit i've highlighted should probably read 32 targets? Because of the last line. Confusing but.. Cheers -- maxrspct ping me 13:36, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
Dunno.. look closer. i'm not great at maths but.. This is confusing. -- maxrspct ping me 21:13, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
Where is 32 wareheads in cheveline - its not in chevaline article (??)-- maxrspct ping me 21:17, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
Quoted from the article: "UK nuclear posture during the cold war was informed by interdependence with the United States. Operational control of the UK Polaris force was assigned to SACLANT". Who exactly controlls SACLANT? In other word, in the event that the UK wants to drop a nuclear weapon but the US disagrees with this, could the UK alone drop it? Does anyone have a source for this? I think this is a very important question that needs to be clarified. Herve661 15:34, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
Polaris Missiles required US firing codes to fire, so they were dependant on the US, the later Trident missiles were more independant though, Submarine commanders were in charge of the codes to actually launch a missile but the missiles themselves are sent to the US for maintenance and upgrades every few years, the US retained control of the technology to build and maintain them.
83.104.138.141 (
talk)
03:00, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
Added a brief section on the government legal position in defence to the Sands and Singh reports given already which give a solely 'against' pov - ie not npov - perhaps could do with some more detail or attention of an expert. Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.96.243.127 ( talk) 21:09, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
Image:Blue Danube Bomb.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot ( talk) 04:59, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
To my mind, the rationale has always been political as well. If the UK ceases to have nuclear forces, France will be the only European country with them, and will start to act like it. It is unlikely that this would impinge on negotiations on the direction of the EU, with the French favouring a more socialist and less "Anglo-Saxon" model, but whatever the reality, diehard British fear of an arrogant and powerful France is a key factor behind keeping it.
The other key concern is fear of Germany. Almost all large European countries have a noisy and uncouth neo-nazi minority of overbearing unemployed young men. Any electoral advances eg. in Austria by anyone described sometimes unfairly as of the "far right" gets left-wing media outlets in a frenzy. But it is much more alarming from a military perspective when German parties like the NDP do well, even in city and state elections. The argument is that if in the highly unlikely event that Germany (currently a NATO ally) ever did become nationalist or militaristic again, there is no point in rearming to take on all the old enemies, including Britain, since Britain and France already have nuclear weapons, and for as long as Germany does not, it is the weaker power and all attempts to re-establish a greater Germany through force fall at the first hurdle. Put bluntly, the ability of London to (however destructive to Europe's environment overall) hit German cities with instant destruction makes all such efforts blatantly futile from a military perspective and thus doomed to irrelevance from a political one. Such ridiculous and backward-looking ideas simply never get off the ground.
These are the two actual reasons for keeping them. Those who say we have nobody to throw them at who we would wish to are quite right. We would never take on any rogue states without America anyway. I don't think Russia either wishes to dominate Europe any more and I don't think French or British weapons make any difference. We are already much too economically dependent on Moscow to attack it and vice versa.
The article should reflect these actual political rationales and calculations. This stuff may not be obvious to the public and the MOD probably would never say these to avoid painting NATO allies as potential enemies.
Civil servants may have argued that we "could annihilate Eastern Europe" but we didn't want to and couldn't then and certainly wouldn't now.
-- 81.105.243.17 ( talk) 00:13, 21 July 2008 (UTC)
The image Image:Orange Herald warhead.jpg is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check
The following images also have this problem:
This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. -- 00:55, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
If the UK would not renew trident, would the UK still have other deploy-able nuclear weapons? How many of which ones? Chendy ( talk) 08:45, 30 April 2010 (UTC)
The exact number of nuclear warheads which the UK has in total and has operational is 225/160.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5ge06eimPo1oS2tR3pGmTv836hE4gD9FUJIEO0
Can this article (and others) now be updated with this please. David ( talk) 15:40, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
For those interested in the subject then this new book by Richard Moore might provide some answers: Nuclear Illusion, Nuclear Reality: Britain, the United States and Nuclear Weapons, 1958-64 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.112.59.174 ( talk) 21:55, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
The United Kingdom was the third country to test an independently developed nuclear weapon, - surely it wasn't third, it was second after the USSR - the US didn't independently develop a nuclear weapon, it did it with British and Canadian help, so that's hardly 'independently developed'. The US developed a bomb with the help of the UK and Canada and then after the passing of the McMahon Act and reneging on the deal to share information under the Quebec Agreement, Britain then had to do it all again on its own. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.112.83.125 ( talk) 10:23, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
The first paragraph after the title "Thermonuclear weaponry" states:
A month after Britain's first atomic weapons test, America tested the first thermonuclear bomb. The Soviets tested their first in 1953.[34] Although Penney believed that Britain could not afford developing a hydrogen bomb,[19] these developments alarmed Churchill and a decision was made on 27 July 1954 to begin development of a thermonuclear bomb, making use of the more powerful nuclear fusion reaction rather than nuclear fission.[34]
The problems are:
1. Grammer: Perhaps it should read "...Britain could not afford to develop a hydrogen bomb..."?
2. Technical issue: "making use of the more powerful nuclear fusion reaction rather than nuclear fission". Fusion reactions are actually less enegetic per reaction but more energetic by mass. Perhaps this should be reworded "making use of nuclear fusion to provide a higher yeild than nuclear fission "?
2.217.150.216 ( talk) 17:01, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
I am very surprised that there is no mention of the USA backstabbing the British by releasing (directly against British wishes and knowledge) all the serial numbers and highly classified data on the UK's nuclear arsenal to the Russians during the New Start negotiations, the act basically completely and utterly destroyed Britains deterrent. 82.31.236.245 ( talk) 23:59, 2 April 2012 (UTC)
http://bos.sagepub.com/content/67/5/89.full.pdf+html
Phd8511 ( talk) 18:31, 14 June 2012 (UTC)
"The British remembered that the United States had declined to bomb German V-1 and V-2 sites that threatened England." - what? For starters, in all my years of reading on the war I've never come across any such information. Secondly, the V-2's had mobile launchers, and at that time bombing them was impossible. Nor would it have been a "United States" decision, as the UK had it's own bombers. The Allied advance into Europe captured or destroyed these rockets and their launch-crews - Eisenhower responded to Churchill's request that this be given priority. FOR NOW, I am going to remove this line and ask for some pretty heavy support in scholarly materials for it to be put back in. Btw, the linked Wiki articles for the V weapons have no mention of any such 'decline' by the U.S. - which in the case of the V-2, wouldn't make any sense anyway. HammerFilmFan ( talk) 10:42, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
"An independent test programme would see the UK numbers soar to French levels." I think this is highly speculative, which in itself is a reason to delete that sentence (or at the very least give a source).
I also disagree with the conclusion itself, in view of the ridiculously excessive amount of nuclear tests that the French have conducted. France has carried out 210 tests, for a peak stockpile of only 540 warheads. This is a full 0.39 tests per warhead. In relative terms, that's TEN times more than the United States (0.034 tests per warhead) and even TWENTY times more than the Soviet Union! (0.016 tests per warhead)-- Cancun771 ( talk) 15:56, 7 May 2013 (UTC)
The article says: "After British scientists demonstrated to the United States in late 1957 that they had developed a Teller-Ulam design different from American methods and thus understood how to build a hydrogen bomb, the 1958 US-UK Mutual Defence Agreement made fully developed and tested American designs available more quickly and more cheaply." This does not read very well when you consider that the "Teller-Ulam design" was itself an American invention. 194.176.105.153 ( talk) 12:20, 10 October 2013 (UTC)
Testing sites can be moved into Nuclear weapons and the United Kingdom as it is a part of the same. Cheers AKS 10:10, 3 January 2014 (UTC)
Support merging these articles. Given the time period between the proposal and the current time, and given the lack of opposition, the article should be merged immediately. Dingomate ( talk) 05:09, 15 May 2015 (UTC)
(1) I didn't understand these statements: "From 1955 the government chose to emphasize the nuclear deterrent and deemphasize conventional forces,[51] a decision The Economist, the New Statesman, and many left-wing newspapers supported. Their view (in 1954–55) is fairly summarised as being not opposed to nuclear deterrence and nuclear weapons, but in their view that of the United States would suffice, and that of the costs of the 'nuclear umbrella' was best left to be borne by the United States alone." The first sentence made it sound as though the Economist, New Statesman and many leftwing newspapers supported the decision to emphasise the UK's nuclear deterrent. But then the second statement says that these papers believed the US nuclear deterrent would have been enough on its own and that the US should bear the costs alone - which is the complete opposite of saying that the UK should emphasise its nuclear deterrent, a view these papers had allegedly supported. What's the truth of the matter, and can the article be made to reflect it in clear language? (2) Am I read this right: Wilson regarded nuclear deterrence as an irrelevance, a Tory pretence, but didn't make any move to abolish it - and actually secretly spent huge amounts of money on a programme to upgrade the weapons. If the electorate had endorsed his view that the weapons were a pretence, why did he feel the need to spend a huge amount upgrading them? 86.138.85.255 ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 20:31, 19 September 2015 (UTC)
I feel it is not scholarly neutrality for US, UK, and Israel to have 'nuclear weapons', while Russia, France, India, Pakistan, China, North Korea have 'weapons of mass destruction'. This is in effect political propaganda. I suggest they all have 'nuclear weapons'. Aptos8080 ( talk) 23:59, 27 October 2015 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to one external link on
Nuclear weapons and the United Kingdom. Please take a moment to review
my edit. If necessary, add {{
cbignore}}
after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{
nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}}
to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 19:37, 11 January 2016 (UTC)
I updated the Replacement for Trident section about the new Successor-class submarines (House of Commons vote on 18 July). However, there has been recent discussion of morality and the value of the Trident program. I think the article should be updated to incorporate some of that as well.
For example, see http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-trident-debate-nuclear-bomb-yes-live-latest-news-a7143386.html AND https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jul/18/theresa-may-takes-aim-at-jeremy-corbyn-over-trident-renewal AND http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/17/corbyn-puts-trident-fore-labour-divisions-deepen and https://next.ft.com/content/3b239c2a-4c15-11e6-8172-e39ecd3b86fc Peter K Burian ( talk) 16:10, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 3 external links on Nuclear weapons and the United Kingdom. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 02:05, 21 May 2017 (UTC)
GA toolbox |
---|
Reviewing |
Reviewer: Nick-D ( talk · contribs) 01:16, 5 August 2018 (UTC)
It's great to see the article on this important topic at GAN. Due to its (justified) size, it might take me a few days to finish the review. Here are my comments:
Thanks for undertaking to review this. I realise that these top-level articles are hard to review. Each subsection has its own articles, and only a summary is presented here. Take as long as you like to review, but I have to go away at the end of the week, and while I'll still be able to edit, won't have access to my books. If necessary, we can shelf the review at that point.
@ Nick-D: I am back now. When=re is this at. What still needs to be done? Hawkeye7 (discuss) 02:36, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:France and weapons of mass destruction which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. — RMCD bot 00:31, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Nuclear weapons of the United Kingdom article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Nuclear weapons of the United Kingdom has been listed as one of the Warfare good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||
Nuclear weapons of the United Kingdom is the main article in the Nuclear weapons and the United Kingdom series, a featured topic. This is identified as among the best series of articles produced by the Wikipedia community. If you can update or improve it, please do so. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article is rated A-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
On 6 December 2023, it was proposed that this article be moved to United Kingdom and nuclear weapons. The result of the discussion was not moved. |
An abridged copy of the papers presented at the Royal Aeronautical Society Symposium on Chevaline 2004 and subsequently published as ISBN 1-85768-109-6 is available as a free email download (approx 450kb zipped-up) from Brian.Burnell Contact via wiki email facility on User page. Brian.Burnell 01:09, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
I just added a link [1] to a well researched table of UK nuclear weapons systems / bomb models. At some future point, someone with some bandwidth should take that and its source materials and expand the article out. Georgewilliamherbert 06:51, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
This is a nice article but I am hesitant to approve it with so many sections listed as being stubs. Several sections are both stubs and have links to a Main Article this is probably redundant since a section with a main article should be little more than a stub. Eluchil404 21:46, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
Cheung1303 04:50, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
I have added a section regarding the recently released documents for the 1979 Warsaw Pact plan "Seven Days to the River Rhine", and have noted the lack of nuclear strikes on France and the United Kingdom. A relevant news story is: http://www.guardian.co.uk/russia/article/0,2763,1651315,00.html#article_continue
I have also noted how the UK and French strategies regarding "Counter Value" nuclear strikes may have influenced the lack of strikes on both nations. I cannot claim inspiration or originality regarding this position, as I have seen it put forth on several discussion fora.
-- Wbd 17:03, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
Was already there in the following section headed 'Number of Warheads'. Two citations were supplied; the Strategic Defence Review and one other. Brian.Burnell 18:11, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
'Failure' was a common misconception based on folk-tales with no research evidence in support. What evidence there is suggests that the reason for cancellation was not because of project 'failure' but because military requirements had changed and had been changing rapidly. Like all similar land-based liquid-fuelled ballistic missiles sited close to coastlines, or the Eastern European launch sites of the USSR, Blue Streak was vulnerable to a pre-emptive attack, because of the time needed to fuel the weapon. An added factor was the unsuitability of British geology and geography for silo construction. Such sites need to be in the centre of large land-masses, remote from large population centres; not possible in a small overcrowded island. The same military logic led to the removal of UK-based Thor IRBMs and Jupiter IRBMs based in Italy and Turkey. Because they were just too vulnerable. Blue Streak went on to a successful second career as the first-stage booster for a European collaborative programme of civil satellite launches. The withdrawal of Jupiter IRBMs was implicated in a tit-for-tat deal after the Cuban Missile Crisis. But the Jupiters were militarily worthless anyway. Use of the word 'failure' suggests to me a partisan POV. Brian.Burnell 18:36, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
All of this POV section was based on the false premise that UK targetting policy was a so-called 'Counter-Value' strategy. Consequently the whole passage was speculative and promoting a POV, which was not sustained by any evidence. It is now known from material declassified in relation to the Chevaline project, and elsewhere, that the UK never adopted any strategy other than one designed to 'decapitate' the Soviet leadership in Moscow. The 'Moscow Criteria' referred to elsewhere in this article and duly cited to hard evidence of its veracity demolishes the speculation about 'Counter-Value', entertaining though it was. Brian.Burnell 16:00, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
http://63.99.108.76/forums/index.php?showtopic=13477&hl=seven+days+to+the+river+rhine
“ | If you don't want your writing to be edited mercilessly or redistributed by others do not submit it. | ” |
-- Wbd 15:06, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
Removed Section Arghh...I've somehow gone very wrong here. I have removed the entire section and agree with your critique. Please accept my apologies for the troubles caused, as I have caused you and others trouble undeservedly. Whatever viewpoints that were NPOV that I placed in the article do not belong, and those that were POV definitely needed removal.
Thank-you for pointing these issues out.
-- Wbd 16:51, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
I'm happy to be able to help. But if I'd had the foresight to illustrate it with the Chevaline example sooner it could have been acheived with less anst for both of us. Maury Markowitz has recently completed an excellent rewrite of the Chevaline article that I can recommend for its insight into targetting strategy. Regards
Brian.Burnell
15:05, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
I have serious doubts about the suitability of this passage for inclusion. Wikipedia is not a political pamphlet, its an encyclopaedia, and a passage promoting a recent speech by a prominent politician seems to me to be too much like political posturing for my personal taste. Perhaps the best place for it might be a biog of Brown? Would others out there like to justify its continued inclusion? Brian.Burnell 17:18, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
It may be true that a Windows-based system has been installed recently, but there is no evidence presented that this minor change is in any way related to replacement plans for Trident (if they yet exist). It is quite normal in the lifespan of all weapon systems for aged components to be replaced; often by more modern components than before. The reason for this can be no more sinister than that the older components are no longer being produced. One example being Windows XP SP1, whose upgrades and support will cease in Oct 2006 for all users, military and civilian. The passage is simply not relevant to the debate about Trident replacement, which is unlikely to take effect before 2025. Use of the word 'probably' is also indicative of the provenance of the passage. Wikipedia is an encyclopaedia, not a soapbox. It requires content to be verifiable. Speculation, however well-intentioned does not belong here, because by its very nature, speculation is not verifiable. Brian.Burnell 10:31, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
This page is titled Nuclear weapons and the United Kingdom and its purpose is to give an overview of British nuclear weapons history from inception to the present day. What is not its purpose is to duplicate the Trident missile page, although the Trident system should of course feature in any well-balanced article about the United Kingdom's nuclear weapons. Nor is its purpose is to be a platform for a section about ship/submarine control software. However well-written or informative that section may be, it is irrelevant to the subject matter of Nuclear weapons and the United Kingdom and should be located elsewhere. On a dedicated page. From a careful reading of the text (and its links to other places) inserted here on the Windows control system it becomes clear, even to a non-specialist, that this has nothing whatsoever to do with either nuclear weapons, or their delivery systems, or their targetting or launch procedures. The Windows system is a purely ship and submarine control system that is NOT unique to the Vanguard class SSBNs, but is a system common to many types of vessel, some conventionally-powered, some not; some are armed with conventional weapons only, some like the Vanguard class are not; some are nuclear-powered submarines, and some are surface vessels, eg, frigates and destroyers. Some are of the British Royal Navy, and others are Dutch, Italian, German etc. These states do not possess nuclear weapons or nuclear-powered vessels, yet use this Windows-based operating system for some of their ships. Nor is this page the appropriate place to elaborate on the merits or lack of merit of the Windows operating system, that has no connection whatsoever with British nuclear weapons.
It is absolutely clear that this section on Windows for Warhips is completely irrelevant to the Nuclear weapons and the United Kingdom page. The page is not a vehicle for those with some kind of axe to grind about a topic that should be located elsewhere. The Windows section unbalances this page and it is a misuse of this article to repeatedly place it here after having the issues discussed earlier at great length, and solutions suggested for suitable links to a dedicated page. In that sense it is bordering on vandalism IMHO. Brian.Burnell 09:43, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
The reference to BAE Sytems is likewise unverifiable. No citable source is offered for the assertion that BAe is "one of the most powerful lobbyists ...". It may well be a perfectly reasonable view to hold; but Wikipedia is not a soapbox for such views, or of opposing views. The proper place for these is elsewhere, perhaps in a political pamphlet. Wikipedia is for encyclopaedic, verifiable content. Of course no contributor can ever be free of political bias, especially about such a contentious issue as Trident. But unless we strive to avoid using Wiki as a soapbox it will quickly degenerate into a forum where two opposing viewpoints crowd out all information that does not support their viewpoint. I note that the above passage ref 'Trident and Gordon Brown' posted one month ago dated 10 Aug 2006 has not attracted a single comment from contributors in favour of retaining it. Brian.Burnell 10:31, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
There is no evidence that the changes referred to are in any way connected with plans to replace Trident, which will not expire of old age until around 2025. There is no evidence that replacement plans even exist. Any assertion that there are such plans can only be speculation and unverifiable to the standards that Wikipedia requires. The software changes referred to are possibly no more than a routine replacement of worn-out equipment such as happens as a matter of course with all aging machinery. See above at 'Probably the first use of Microsoft Windows ...' If there is any hard evidence that the replacement software is in any way a neccessary precursor for replacement of the whole missile and submarine system then produce it, and the deleted material can be reinstated as compliant with Wikis requirements for verifiable encyclopaedic content. Wiki is not a soapbox for POV. Brian.Burnell 23:21, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
Well, because of the highly classified nature of these programmes, it is a little difficult to produce hard evidence of this kind from public sources. The few openly available references I am able to produce (Hansard, company news releases, etc) you keep removing, which makes it difficult for others to look up what limited source material is available. Shlgww 07:28, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
Has never been one of massive retaliation. The UK has never possessed sufficient bombs to permit that strategy. Since Polaris, and probably earlier, strategy has followed three paths. First, the UK strategic and tactical weapons since 1960 or earlier were assigned to NATO, and SACEUR determined targetting plans (with input from UK staffs). That was true of the V-bombers weapons and is still true today. Second, in the unlikely situation where the UK launched a strike without allied support, the only strategic strategy was the so-called 'Moscvow Criteria' where the intention was to decapitate the Soviet leadership concentrated around Moscow, leaving the remaining USSR untouched and hopefully detached from the regime. To do that it was necessary to defeat the ABM defences protecting Moscow (but nowhere else). That was the raison-d'etre for the Chevaline project, that was not needed for any other targetting plan. It seems unlikely that that targetting strategy has changed significantly; although we are unlikely to have hard evidence for many years yet. Thirdly, the free-fall bombs deployed with the RAF and Royal Navy were also able to be used as a sub-strategic weapon against less well-defended targets on the periphery of the USSR or elsewhere. Nothing has changed since these bombs were retired, and their functions as a sub-strategic deterrent have been assigned to Trident missiles equipped with a suitable low-yield warhead. Note though that the 'sub-strategic' WE.177 warheads ranged from a minimum of 10 kilotons to 200 kt and 450 kt, depending on model used. Note also that 'sub-strategic' can mean many things; eg. there are declassified plans in the PRO for a tactical (or sub-strategic) strike from Navy carriers at ports on the coast of Burma should the UK's committments to SEATO be invoked by a Chinese attack into Vietnam or SE Asia. Burma is not usually regarded as worthy of such a strike, and doubtless there were other plans. Brian.Burnell 16:18, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
The phase was inserted in good faith to illustrate how public opinion as expressed by the quality press, has changed since the 1954 decision to develop a British thermonuclear weapon. Although it could perhaps have been better phased, the purpose of illustrating changing public opinion is a perfectly legitimate objective in the context of the narrative. Hopefully, the changes made and the additional references provided will meet with Palpatine's approval. Brian.Burnell 17:38, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
I'm not sure I agree with the link to tactical weapons in the first section. As I understand it, a 'sub-strategic' attack today would use reduced-yield strategic weapons against specific (probably political) targets. This is slightly different to the battlefield deployment of low-yield tactical nuclear weaponry against military formations/targets. I think 'sub-strategic' and 'tactical' are not the same thing, but easily confused. Can I suggest that a link to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_warfare#sub-strategic might be better? Betdud 13:51, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
Someone has deleted this external reference:
Why? Vernon White (talk) 18:22, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
There doesnt seem to be any mention of the signigicant testing of atomic weapons in Australia. This was agreed to by Robert Menzies, the Australian Prime Minsister at the time. Significant numbers of above ground tests were carried out at Maralinga and other locations in South Australia. These resulted in significant radiation exposure to Australian and UK servicemen, and local Aboriginal people. I do not have the details, but someone may like to include this information. Patrats 06:15, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
There is an article British nuclear tests at Maralinga, however this page should reference it in the section about tests, as it was a significant part of the UK test programme. It should also mention either in the test section, or possible the politics section below the details of the ongoing saga over compensation for service personnel who suffered significant health problems as a result, and are currently still seeking compensation from the Uk gvt. This is seen as a significant issue in Australia, and deserves a mention on this page in my opinion. I would be tempted to write it myself, but am alreadty struggling to catch up with all the ongoing pages I am working on, I really don't think i can get involved in another new project at this time. Anyone who is more oriented to the nuclear subject want to volunteer? Rac fleming 07:54, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
Am I alone in thinking that we should include mention of domestic opposition to nuclear weapons and CND in particular? I would think that at least passing reference to these would be useful context for the article (which is terrific by the way).-- Smcgrother 18:35, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
Am I the only one who reckons there is far too much use of the prase (propaganda slogan ?) nuclear deterrent in these articles. Other countries have nuclear weapons or (if not our friends) weapons of mass destruction but only the UK has a nuclear deterrent ! 213.40.226.94 ( talk) 16:12, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
this section-
"A submarine's load of warheads were reduced from 96 to 48. This reduced the explosive power of the warheads on a Vanguard class Trident submarine to "one third less than a Polaris submarine armed with Chevaline." However, a fact that the 1998 Strategic Defence Review glosses over is that 48 warheads per Trident submarine represents a 50% increase on the 32 warheads per submarine of Chevaline. Total explosive power has been in decline for decades as the accuracy of missiles has improved, therefore requiring less power to destroy each target. Trident can destroy 48 targets per submarine, as opposed to 32 targets that could be destroyed by Chevaline."
The bit i've highlighted should probably read 32 targets? Because of the last line. Confusing but.. Cheers -- maxrspct ping me 13:36, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
Dunno.. look closer. i'm not great at maths but.. This is confusing. -- maxrspct ping me 21:13, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
Where is 32 wareheads in cheveline - its not in chevaline article (??)-- maxrspct ping me 21:17, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
Quoted from the article: "UK nuclear posture during the cold war was informed by interdependence with the United States. Operational control of the UK Polaris force was assigned to SACLANT". Who exactly controlls SACLANT? In other word, in the event that the UK wants to drop a nuclear weapon but the US disagrees with this, could the UK alone drop it? Does anyone have a source for this? I think this is a very important question that needs to be clarified. Herve661 15:34, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
Polaris Missiles required US firing codes to fire, so they were dependant on the US, the later Trident missiles were more independant though, Submarine commanders were in charge of the codes to actually launch a missile but the missiles themselves are sent to the US for maintenance and upgrades every few years, the US retained control of the technology to build and maintain them.
83.104.138.141 (
talk)
03:00, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
Added a brief section on the government legal position in defence to the Sands and Singh reports given already which give a solely 'against' pov - ie not npov - perhaps could do with some more detail or attention of an expert. Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.96.243.127 ( talk) 21:09, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
Image:Blue Danube Bomb.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot ( talk) 04:59, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
To my mind, the rationale has always been political as well. If the UK ceases to have nuclear forces, France will be the only European country with them, and will start to act like it. It is unlikely that this would impinge on negotiations on the direction of the EU, with the French favouring a more socialist and less "Anglo-Saxon" model, but whatever the reality, diehard British fear of an arrogant and powerful France is a key factor behind keeping it.
The other key concern is fear of Germany. Almost all large European countries have a noisy and uncouth neo-nazi minority of overbearing unemployed young men. Any electoral advances eg. in Austria by anyone described sometimes unfairly as of the "far right" gets left-wing media outlets in a frenzy. But it is much more alarming from a military perspective when German parties like the NDP do well, even in city and state elections. The argument is that if in the highly unlikely event that Germany (currently a NATO ally) ever did become nationalist or militaristic again, there is no point in rearming to take on all the old enemies, including Britain, since Britain and France already have nuclear weapons, and for as long as Germany does not, it is the weaker power and all attempts to re-establish a greater Germany through force fall at the first hurdle. Put bluntly, the ability of London to (however destructive to Europe's environment overall) hit German cities with instant destruction makes all such efforts blatantly futile from a military perspective and thus doomed to irrelevance from a political one. Such ridiculous and backward-looking ideas simply never get off the ground.
These are the two actual reasons for keeping them. Those who say we have nobody to throw them at who we would wish to are quite right. We would never take on any rogue states without America anyway. I don't think Russia either wishes to dominate Europe any more and I don't think French or British weapons make any difference. We are already much too economically dependent on Moscow to attack it and vice versa.
The article should reflect these actual political rationales and calculations. This stuff may not be obvious to the public and the MOD probably would never say these to avoid painting NATO allies as potential enemies.
Civil servants may have argued that we "could annihilate Eastern Europe" but we didn't want to and couldn't then and certainly wouldn't now.
-- 81.105.243.17 ( talk) 00:13, 21 July 2008 (UTC)
The image Image:Orange Herald warhead.jpg is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check
The following images also have this problem:
This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. -- 00:55, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
If the UK would not renew trident, would the UK still have other deploy-able nuclear weapons? How many of which ones? Chendy ( talk) 08:45, 30 April 2010 (UTC)
The exact number of nuclear warheads which the UK has in total and has operational is 225/160.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5ge06eimPo1oS2tR3pGmTv836hE4gD9FUJIEO0
Can this article (and others) now be updated with this please. David ( talk) 15:40, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
For those interested in the subject then this new book by Richard Moore might provide some answers: Nuclear Illusion, Nuclear Reality: Britain, the United States and Nuclear Weapons, 1958-64 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.112.59.174 ( talk) 21:55, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
The United Kingdom was the third country to test an independently developed nuclear weapon, - surely it wasn't third, it was second after the USSR - the US didn't independently develop a nuclear weapon, it did it with British and Canadian help, so that's hardly 'independently developed'. The US developed a bomb with the help of the UK and Canada and then after the passing of the McMahon Act and reneging on the deal to share information under the Quebec Agreement, Britain then had to do it all again on its own. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.112.83.125 ( talk) 10:23, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
The first paragraph after the title "Thermonuclear weaponry" states:
A month after Britain's first atomic weapons test, America tested the first thermonuclear bomb. The Soviets tested their first in 1953.[34] Although Penney believed that Britain could not afford developing a hydrogen bomb,[19] these developments alarmed Churchill and a decision was made on 27 July 1954 to begin development of a thermonuclear bomb, making use of the more powerful nuclear fusion reaction rather than nuclear fission.[34]
The problems are:
1. Grammer: Perhaps it should read "...Britain could not afford to develop a hydrogen bomb..."?
2. Technical issue: "making use of the more powerful nuclear fusion reaction rather than nuclear fission". Fusion reactions are actually less enegetic per reaction but more energetic by mass. Perhaps this should be reworded "making use of nuclear fusion to provide a higher yeild than nuclear fission "?
2.217.150.216 ( talk) 17:01, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
I am very surprised that there is no mention of the USA backstabbing the British by releasing (directly against British wishes and knowledge) all the serial numbers and highly classified data on the UK's nuclear arsenal to the Russians during the New Start negotiations, the act basically completely and utterly destroyed Britains deterrent. 82.31.236.245 ( talk) 23:59, 2 April 2012 (UTC)
http://bos.sagepub.com/content/67/5/89.full.pdf+html
Phd8511 ( talk) 18:31, 14 June 2012 (UTC)
"The British remembered that the United States had declined to bomb German V-1 and V-2 sites that threatened England." - what? For starters, in all my years of reading on the war I've never come across any such information. Secondly, the V-2's had mobile launchers, and at that time bombing them was impossible. Nor would it have been a "United States" decision, as the UK had it's own bombers. The Allied advance into Europe captured or destroyed these rockets and their launch-crews - Eisenhower responded to Churchill's request that this be given priority. FOR NOW, I am going to remove this line and ask for some pretty heavy support in scholarly materials for it to be put back in. Btw, the linked Wiki articles for the V weapons have no mention of any such 'decline' by the U.S. - which in the case of the V-2, wouldn't make any sense anyway. HammerFilmFan ( talk) 10:42, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
"An independent test programme would see the UK numbers soar to French levels." I think this is highly speculative, which in itself is a reason to delete that sentence (or at the very least give a source).
I also disagree with the conclusion itself, in view of the ridiculously excessive amount of nuclear tests that the French have conducted. France has carried out 210 tests, for a peak stockpile of only 540 warheads. This is a full 0.39 tests per warhead. In relative terms, that's TEN times more than the United States (0.034 tests per warhead) and even TWENTY times more than the Soviet Union! (0.016 tests per warhead)-- Cancun771 ( talk) 15:56, 7 May 2013 (UTC)
The article says: "After British scientists demonstrated to the United States in late 1957 that they had developed a Teller-Ulam design different from American methods and thus understood how to build a hydrogen bomb, the 1958 US-UK Mutual Defence Agreement made fully developed and tested American designs available more quickly and more cheaply." This does not read very well when you consider that the "Teller-Ulam design" was itself an American invention. 194.176.105.153 ( talk) 12:20, 10 October 2013 (UTC)
Testing sites can be moved into Nuclear weapons and the United Kingdom as it is a part of the same. Cheers AKS 10:10, 3 January 2014 (UTC)
Support merging these articles. Given the time period between the proposal and the current time, and given the lack of opposition, the article should be merged immediately. Dingomate ( talk) 05:09, 15 May 2015 (UTC)
(1) I didn't understand these statements: "From 1955 the government chose to emphasize the nuclear deterrent and deemphasize conventional forces,[51] a decision The Economist, the New Statesman, and many left-wing newspapers supported. Their view (in 1954–55) is fairly summarised as being not opposed to nuclear deterrence and nuclear weapons, but in their view that of the United States would suffice, and that of the costs of the 'nuclear umbrella' was best left to be borne by the United States alone." The first sentence made it sound as though the Economist, New Statesman and many leftwing newspapers supported the decision to emphasise the UK's nuclear deterrent. But then the second statement says that these papers believed the US nuclear deterrent would have been enough on its own and that the US should bear the costs alone - which is the complete opposite of saying that the UK should emphasise its nuclear deterrent, a view these papers had allegedly supported. What's the truth of the matter, and can the article be made to reflect it in clear language? (2) Am I read this right: Wilson regarded nuclear deterrence as an irrelevance, a Tory pretence, but didn't make any move to abolish it - and actually secretly spent huge amounts of money on a programme to upgrade the weapons. If the electorate had endorsed his view that the weapons were a pretence, why did he feel the need to spend a huge amount upgrading them? 86.138.85.255 ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 20:31, 19 September 2015 (UTC)
I feel it is not scholarly neutrality for US, UK, and Israel to have 'nuclear weapons', while Russia, France, India, Pakistan, China, North Korea have 'weapons of mass destruction'. This is in effect political propaganda. I suggest they all have 'nuclear weapons'. Aptos8080 ( talk) 23:59, 27 October 2015 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to one external link on
Nuclear weapons and the United Kingdom. Please take a moment to review
my edit. If necessary, add {{
cbignore}}
after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{
nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}}
to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 19:37, 11 January 2016 (UTC)
I updated the Replacement for Trident section about the new Successor-class submarines (House of Commons vote on 18 July). However, there has been recent discussion of morality and the value of the Trident program. I think the article should be updated to incorporate some of that as well.
For example, see http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-trident-debate-nuclear-bomb-yes-live-latest-news-a7143386.html AND https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jul/18/theresa-may-takes-aim-at-jeremy-corbyn-over-trident-renewal AND http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/17/corbyn-puts-trident-fore-labour-divisions-deepen and https://next.ft.com/content/3b239c2a-4c15-11e6-8172-e39ecd3b86fc Peter K Burian ( talk) 16:10, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 3 external links on Nuclear weapons and the United Kingdom. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 02:05, 21 May 2017 (UTC)
GA toolbox |
---|
Reviewing |
Reviewer: Nick-D ( talk · contribs) 01:16, 5 August 2018 (UTC)
It's great to see the article on this important topic at GAN. Due to its (justified) size, it might take me a few days to finish the review. Here are my comments:
Thanks for undertaking to review this. I realise that these top-level articles are hard to review. Each subsection has its own articles, and only a summary is presented here. Take as long as you like to review, but I have to go away at the end of the week, and while I'll still be able to edit, won't have access to my books. If necessary, we can shelf the review at that point.
@ Nick-D: I am back now. When=re is this at. What still needs to be done? Hawkeye7 (discuss) 02:36, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:France and weapons of mass destruction which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. — RMCD bot 00:31, 6 December 2023 (UTC)