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I removed this statement, because it was not accurate:
The NTSB was not able to determine the condition of that CB, prior to the crash, becaus it was too badly damaged. They could not tell if the CB was open or closed. They could only determine that the CAWS was not powered. This is the replacement text I have inserted:
Specifically, the NTSB could not determine if that P-40 CB had been tripped, or intentionally opened, or if electrical current failed to flow thru that CB, to the CAWS, while the CB remained closed.
EditorASC ( talk) 21:04, 28 December 2008 (UTC)
The NTSB report lists a few injuries among the many fatalities, and the link showing that the crash killed "all the passengers except for a four-year old girl" is dead. Could somebody clear this up? Also, the contributing (not immediate cause) electrical malfunction cited in the NTSB report should be listed. Bayerischermann 21:33, 14 September 2005 (UTC)
This is a true deal. The MD-82 was on the flight when it crashed on takeoff. When it went down, it crashed onto a freeway just outside of the airport. Of all the passengers and crew aboard this flight, the sole survivor of this crash was a 4-year-old girl who was more or less smothered by the mother at impact. Because of this, she was shielded from the explosive imapact when the plane hit the ground. I can't remember if she lived through the recovery and is alive today, but I do remember that Northwest was in pretty deep trouble because of the accident for about 2-3 years. In the end, Northwest completely revamped pre-flight checklists on all aircraft.
Jonathon, Bethel, AK 9.16.05
I believe that the three other injuries were probably people in vehicles along the freeway, while the four-year-old girl was the fourth injury, and the only survivor of those who were actually onboard the aircraft. Alex, Prescott WI 9.25.05
Actually the full NTSB report indicates that the mother was found 30 ft from the 4 year old girl and had NOTHING to do with saving here. This was make up by the media to be a feel good story.
-Regarding the previous entry about little Cecelia's Mom being found 30 feet away from her at the scene...(bless her soul), I could not find that fact in the NTSB report (AAR88-05) as you mentioned. I may have simply missed it - Can anyone verify this? -And please state your information source(s). Thanks, Russ, Tempe, AZ 2.3.06
We can safely remove the dispute here. This NTSB link confirms 154 passenger/crew fatalities, 1 passenger survivor, 2 fatalities on the ground, 5 injuries on the ground. http://www.ntsb.gov/publictn/1988/AAR8805.htm
As to the question above about the sole survivor, Cecelia Cichan, the article correctly states that she is still alive today. In fact she appears to have corrected the spelling of her name in a few wikipedia articles in 2004. http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Special:Contributions&target=68.220.220.149
Other links that confirm the stats can be found on this page: http://www.flight255memorial.com/thecrash.html
I thought Cecelia was only 2 yrs old at the time. 9-25-06
RE: "...the sole survivor of this crash was a 4-year-old girl who was more or less smothered by the mother at impact. Because of this, she was shielded from the explosive imapact when the plane hit the ground."
RE: "Actually the full NTSB report indicates that the mother was found 30 ft from the 4 year old girl and had NOTHING to do with saving here. This was make up by the media to be a feel good story."
EditorASC ( talk) 18:21, 28 December 2008 (UTC)
i remember reading somewhere that the crew was in a big hurry because of a curfew at john wayne airport in orange county, california -- they were borderline to arrive there in time and would have been re-routed to LAX had they not made it, which was evidently a major hassle. in their haste to get airborne, they screwed up.
anyone have anything on this? 68.108.16.108 ( talk) 01:24, 16 August 2008 (UTC)
"Annuciated" is a rather arcane word, which seems to mean "foretold", "presaged". Did the writer mean "announced" (or "enunciated"?). In any case, none of these seems quite right, but it needs someone with more knowledge of the incident to clarify e.g. how were the warnings given, were they not acknowledged? 84.92.241.186 ( talk) 13:28, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
Just as an FYI - I spoke with a pilot about this crash; I was told that the airline, with that type aircraft, at that time taxied out on one engine to save fuel. That one engined taxi required high revs - the alarm would sound for improper configuration for takeoff with the high engine speed as the trigger. The crews would disable the alarm would sound for improper configuration. Add the failure to extend flaps/slats to no alarm (disabled) ..... 112.203.247.168 ( talk) 04:53, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
A review of the MD-82 systems and cockpit layout suggests that the above speculation is not based in fact. The P40 circuit breaker is located at the outboard edge of a breaker panel located behind the Captain's seat. Why would a flight crew member get up from his seat, spend time looking behind the Captain's seat looking for the P40 breaker and pull it, when all that is necessary to silence the horn is to retard the power setting once the aircraft starts moving? It's not like TOGA power on one engine is necessary for the entire taxi time. Nor is there any indication in the CVR/cockpit area microphone transcript (available in the public domain) of single engine taxi being used, a warning horn sounding, or any discussion about pulling a circuit breaker, any one of which might be normally expected if the intentional opening of P40 had occurred.
Nor does the article include sufficient information from the NTSB final report about the failure modes of P40 and the associated circuit other than intentional opening. The NTSB report goes into great detail about how tests from Douglas and Klixon (the subsidiary of Texas Instruments that manufactured the circuit breaker) showed that there was a failure mode where the breaker could open without any visual indication. Twominutesinverted ( talk) 12:09, 16 August 2014 (UTC)
I propose that the Cecelia Cichan be merged here. The article is very short and could be accommodated as a section or subsection here without undue weight. It is also encouraged by the fact that Cichan is an individual notable for one event. 86.41.93.214 ( talk) 02:29, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
I think it is also fair to ponder that the survivor herself does not like undue publicity, as stated in the References. Aldo L ( talk) 02:09, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
What about Korean Air Flight 801, which crashed in Guam with 228 casaulties? Yeah, I know Guam isn't a state, but it's still United States territory. 76.6.155.76 ( talk) 17:55, 16 November 2013 (UTC)
"The MD-82 went into a stall and rolled 40 degrees to the left when it struck a light pole near the end of the runway", this is the way the article reads now but nowhere in the NTSB report does it state 40 degrees, it does say the wings rocked back and forth 35 degrees. Opinions? -- Daffydavid ( talk) 21:41, 8 April 2014 (UTC)
Cyberbot II has detected links on Northwest Airlines Flight 255 which have been added to the blacklist, either globally or locally. Links tend to be blacklisted because they have a history of being spammed or are highly inappropriate for Wikipedia. The addition will be logged at one of these locations: local or global If you believe the specific link should be exempt from the blacklist, you may request that it is white-listed. Alternatively, you may request that the link is removed from or altered on the blacklist locally or globally. When requesting whitelisting, be sure to supply the link to be whitelisted and wrap the link in nowiki tags. Please do not remove the tag until the issue is resolved. You may set the invisible parameter to "true" whilst requests to white-list are being processed. Should you require any help with this process, please ask at the help desk.
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Someone who has more interest in this article than me should review the addition of the image File:McDonnell Douglas MD-82, Republic Airlines JP6652136.jpg. Aside from a typo in the caption it seems unnecessary. I have reverted a lot of this users images from articles today but I want to give him the benefit of the doubt on this one. Arbalest Mike ( talk) 23:42, 19 October 2015 (UTC)
Possibly related, someone keeps adding in info about the plane's livery. I'd rather not battle over its inclusion, but I found an appropriate supporting source and cleaned up the description for clarity. IMO it's not necessary, but if it's going to be there it should at least be there properly. Shelbystripes ( talk) 18:12, 18 January 2016 (UTC)
It feels like we just started calling Cecelia by her married name with only a small warning that I specified but still looks confusing. We should have segued into it. Should change the article and refer Cecelia by her maiden name, Chichan, to make it sound less confusing and more clear? Or keep the article the same and just continuing referring to her by her married last name? I suggest the first option but I'm just saying! And to be safe, I'm not taking action until I receive answers. Tigerdude9 ( talk) 21:28, 14 June 2018 (UTC)
I went on airliner.net and asked everyone who had a photo of N312RC if it was ok with them to use it, but I have gotten no response from them in a month,so I asked them again, and I still have no response. I could ask the ASN, but I usually save them as a last resort. What should I do? Tigerdude9 ( talk) 16:55, 21 October 2018 (UTC)
So on check six there a link that downloads the final seconds of the CVR recording in WAV. format. Is that considered free (though i doubt it) and should it be uploaded? Tigerdude9 ( talk) 19:33, 25 January 2019 (UTC)
Alright, we've been having a bit of an edit war over whether or not sole survivor Cecelia Cichan should be mentioned by name. So I wanted to create a place where everyone who would like to help improve this article can discuss this. LearyTheSquid ( talk) 22:24, 3 August 2019 (UTC)
Alright, it has been almost 3 months and we have had nothing other than constant reverted edits. I want all of us to have an actual discussion so we can come to a consensus on this issue beyond the context of the 1943 Gibraltar B-24 crash. So allow me to start.
Personally, I think that the rule of not naming any dead or survivors unless they are Wikipedia notable, while good intentioned, is too strict, or at least is being too strictly enforced. When we are talking about articles on historic events, sometimes there are people involved in those events that, in telling the story properly, it would make sense to name, even though they are only notable for that event and it isn't enough to warrant an entire Wikipedia page.
Why do we name the pilots in most crash articles even though they aren't Wikipedia notable? It's because the pilots are a notable part of any plane crash. I mean, that's obvious, they're the ones flying the plane that crashed, but this shouldn't be limited to the pilots. Sole survivors like Cichan are a good example of this as their survival often becomes one of the most infamous parts of a crash like Northwest 255. Just look at something like the film Sole Survivor to prove that.
Again, these are just my thoughts. If you agree with me feel free to expand upon my arguments. If you disagree with me feel free to counter my arguments civilly. Let me know if I made some sort of mistake, too. I'm still quite new here but I think this is something we really need to sort out. LearyTheSquid ( talk) 02:00, 21 November 2019 (UTC)
I mean the survivors of other accidents are mentioned by name on most other articles, even non notable ones so why not here?
This probably is an issue due to “Mayday:Air Disasters” being syndicated internationally, but Smithsonian Channel lists the episode for this incident, “Alarming Silence”, as Season 2, Episode 5, first aired in 2012. Revbayer ( talk) 22:28, 6 September 2020 (UTC)
A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on August 16, 2007, August 16, 2008, August 16, 2012, and August 16, 2017. |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
I removed this statement, because it was not accurate:
The NTSB was not able to determine the condition of that CB, prior to the crash, becaus it was too badly damaged. They could not tell if the CB was open or closed. They could only determine that the CAWS was not powered. This is the replacement text I have inserted:
Specifically, the NTSB could not determine if that P-40 CB had been tripped, or intentionally opened, or if electrical current failed to flow thru that CB, to the CAWS, while the CB remained closed.
EditorASC ( talk) 21:04, 28 December 2008 (UTC)
The NTSB report lists a few injuries among the many fatalities, and the link showing that the crash killed "all the passengers except for a four-year old girl" is dead. Could somebody clear this up? Also, the contributing (not immediate cause) electrical malfunction cited in the NTSB report should be listed. Bayerischermann 21:33, 14 September 2005 (UTC)
This is a true deal. The MD-82 was on the flight when it crashed on takeoff. When it went down, it crashed onto a freeway just outside of the airport. Of all the passengers and crew aboard this flight, the sole survivor of this crash was a 4-year-old girl who was more or less smothered by the mother at impact. Because of this, she was shielded from the explosive imapact when the plane hit the ground. I can't remember if she lived through the recovery and is alive today, but I do remember that Northwest was in pretty deep trouble because of the accident for about 2-3 years. In the end, Northwest completely revamped pre-flight checklists on all aircraft.
Jonathon, Bethel, AK 9.16.05
I believe that the three other injuries were probably people in vehicles along the freeway, while the four-year-old girl was the fourth injury, and the only survivor of those who were actually onboard the aircraft. Alex, Prescott WI 9.25.05
Actually the full NTSB report indicates that the mother was found 30 ft from the 4 year old girl and had NOTHING to do with saving here. This was make up by the media to be a feel good story.
-Regarding the previous entry about little Cecelia's Mom being found 30 feet away from her at the scene...(bless her soul), I could not find that fact in the NTSB report (AAR88-05) as you mentioned. I may have simply missed it - Can anyone verify this? -And please state your information source(s). Thanks, Russ, Tempe, AZ 2.3.06
We can safely remove the dispute here. This NTSB link confirms 154 passenger/crew fatalities, 1 passenger survivor, 2 fatalities on the ground, 5 injuries on the ground. http://www.ntsb.gov/publictn/1988/AAR8805.htm
As to the question above about the sole survivor, Cecelia Cichan, the article correctly states that she is still alive today. In fact she appears to have corrected the spelling of her name in a few wikipedia articles in 2004. http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Special:Contributions&target=68.220.220.149
Other links that confirm the stats can be found on this page: http://www.flight255memorial.com/thecrash.html
I thought Cecelia was only 2 yrs old at the time. 9-25-06
RE: "...the sole survivor of this crash was a 4-year-old girl who was more or less smothered by the mother at impact. Because of this, she was shielded from the explosive imapact when the plane hit the ground."
RE: "Actually the full NTSB report indicates that the mother was found 30 ft from the 4 year old girl and had NOTHING to do with saving here. This was make up by the media to be a feel good story."
EditorASC ( talk) 18:21, 28 December 2008 (UTC)
i remember reading somewhere that the crew was in a big hurry because of a curfew at john wayne airport in orange county, california -- they were borderline to arrive there in time and would have been re-routed to LAX had they not made it, which was evidently a major hassle. in their haste to get airborne, they screwed up.
anyone have anything on this? 68.108.16.108 ( talk) 01:24, 16 August 2008 (UTC)
"Annuciated" is a rather arcane word, which seems to mean "foretold", "presaged". Did the writer mean "announced" (or "enunciated"?). In any case, none of these seems quite right, but it needs someone with more knowledge of the incident to clarify e.g. how were the warnings given, were they not acknowledged? 84.92.241.186 ( talk) 13:28, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
Just as an FYI - I spoke with a pilot about this crash; I was told that the airline, with that type aircraft, at that time taxied out on one engine to save fuel. That one engined taxi required high revs - the alarm would sound for improper configuration for takeoff with the high engine speed as the trigger. The crews would disable the alarm would sound for improper configuration. Add the failure to extend flaps/slats to no alarm (disabled) ..... 112.203.247.168 ( talk) 04:53, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
A review of the MD-82 systems and cockpit layout suggests that the above speculation is not based in fact. The P40 circuit breaker is located at the outboard edge of a breaker panel located behind the Captain's seat. Why would a flight crew member get up from his seat, spend time looking behind the Captain's seat looking for the P40 breaker and pull it, when all that is necessary to silence the horn is to retard the power setting once the aircraft starts moving? It's not like TOGA power on one engine is necessary for the entire taxi time. Nor is there any indication in the CVR/cockpit area microphone transcript (available in the public domain) of single engine taxi being used, a warning horn sounding, or any discussion about pulling a circuit breaker, any one of which might be normally expected if the intentional opening of P40 had occurred.
Nor does the article include sufficient information from the NTSB final report about the failure modes of P40 and the associated circuit other than intentional opening. The NTSB report goes into great detail about how tests from Douglas and Klixon (the subsidiary of Texas Instruments that manufactured the circuit breaker) showed that there was a failure mode where the breaker could open without any visual indication. Twominutesinverted ( talk) 12:09, 16 August 2014 (UTC)
I propose that the Cecelia Cichan be merged here. The article is very short and could be accommodated as a section or subsection here without undue weight. It is also encouraged by the fact that Cichan is an individual notable for one event. 86.41.93.214 ( talk) 02:29, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
I think it is also fair to ponder that the survivor herself does not like undue publicity, as stated in the References. Aldo L ( talk) 02:09, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
What about Korean Air Flight 801, which crashed in Guam with 228 casaulties? Yeah, I know Guam isn't a state, but it's still United States territory. 76.6.155.76 ( talk) 17:55, 16 November 2013 (UTC)
"The MD-82 went into a stall and rolled 40 degrees to the left when it struck a light pole near the end of the runway", this is the way the article reads now but nowhere in the NTSB report does it state 40 degrees, it does say the wings rocked back and forth 35 degrees. Opinions? -- Daffydavid ( talk) 21:41, 8 April 2014 (UTC)
Cyberbot II has detected links on Northwest Airlines Flight 255 which have been added to the blacklist, either globally or locally. Links tend to be blacklisted because they have a history of being spammed or are highly inappropriate for Wikipedia. The addition will be logged at one of these locations: local or global If you believe the specific link should be exempt from the blacklist, you may request that it is white-listed. Alternatively, you may request that the link is removed from or altered on the blacklist locally or globally. When requesting whitelisting, be sure to supply the link to be whitelisted and wrap the link in nowiki tags. Please do not remove the tag until the issue is resolved. You may set the invisible parameter to "true" whilst requests to white-list are being processed. Should you require any help with this process, please ask at the help desk.
Below is a list of links that were found on the main page:
\brobertankony\.com\b
on the local blacklistIf you would like me to provide more information on the talk page, contact User:Cyberpower678 and ask him to program me with more info.
From your friendly hard working bot.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 21:11, 14 April 2015 (UTC)
Someone who has more interest in this article than me should review the addition of the image File:McDonnell Douglas MD-82, Republic Airlines JP6652136.jpg. Aside from a typo in the caption it seems unnecessary. I have reverted a lot of this users images from articles today but I want to give him the benefit of the doubt on this one. Arbalest Mike ( talk) 23:42, 19 October 2015 (UTC)
Possibly related, someone keeps adding in info about the plane's livery. I'd rather not battle over its inclusion, but I found an appropriate supporting source and cleaned up the description for clarity. IMO it's not necessary, but if it's going to be there it should at least be there properly. Shelbystripes ( talk) 18:12, 18 January 2016 (UTC)
It feels like we just started calling Cecelia by her married name with only a small warning that I specified but still looks confusing. We should have segued into it. Should change the article and refer Cecelia by her maiden name, Chichan, to make it sound less confusing and more clear? Or keep the article the same and just continuing referring to her by her married last name? I suggest the first option but I'm just saying! And to be safe, I'm not taking action until I receive answers. Tigerdude9 ( talk) 21:28, 14 June 2018 (UTC)
I went on airliner.net and asked everyone who had a photo of N312RC if it was ok with them to use it, but I have gotten no response from them in a month,so I asked them again, and I still have no response. I could ask the ASN, but I usually save them as a last resort. What should I do? Tigerdude9 ( talk) 16:55, 21 October 2018 (UTC)
So on check six there a link that downloads the final seconds of the CVR recording in WAV. format. Is that considered free (though i doubt it) and should it be uploaded? Tigerdude9 ( talk) 19:33, 25 January 2019 (UTC)
Alright, we've been having a bit of an edit war over whether or not sole survivor Cecelia Cichan should be mentioned by name. So I wanted to create a place where everyone who would like to help improve this article can discuss this. LearyTheSquid ( talk) 22:24, 3 August 2019 (UTC)
Alright, it has been almost 3 months and we have had nothing other than constant reverted edits. I want all of us to have an actual discussion so we can come to a consensus on this issue beyond the context of the 1943 Gibraltar B-24 crash. So allow me to start.
Personally, I think that the rule of not naming any dead or survivors unless they are Wikipedia notable, while good intentioned, is too strict, or at least is being too strictly enforced. When we are talking about articles on historic events, sometimes there are people involved in those events that, in telling the story properly, it would make sense to name, even though they are only notable for that event and it isn't enough to warrant an entire Wikipedia page.
Why do we name the pilots in most crash articles even though they aren't Wikipedia notable? It's because the pilots are a notable part of any plane crash. I mean, that's obvious, they're the ones flying the plane that crashed, but this shouldn't be limited to the pilots. Sole survivors like Cichan are a good example of this as their survival often becomes one of the most infamous parts of a crash like Northwest 255. Just look at something like the film Sole Survivor to prove that.
Again, these are just my thoughts. If you agree with me feel free to expand upon my arguments. If you disagree with me feel free to counter my arguments civilly. Let me know if I made some sort of mistake, too. I'm still quite new here but I think this is something we really need to sort out. LearyTheSquid ( talk) 02:00, 21 November 2019 (UTC)
I mean the survivors of other accidents are mentioned by name on most other articles, even non notable ones so why not here?
This probably is an issue due to “Mayday:Air Disasters” being syndicated internationally, but Smithsonian Channel lists the episode for this incident, “Alarming Silence”, as Season 2, Episode 5, first aired in 2012. Revbayer ( talk) 22:28, 6 September 2020 (UTC)