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Sayhellotomylittlefriend (
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:::Ah, didn't catch it. Cheers.--[[User:Cymbelmineer|Cymbelmineer]] ([[User talk:Cymbelmineer|talk]]) 12:50, 6 October 2010 (UTC) |
:::Ah, didn't catch it. Cheers.--[[User:Cymbelmineer|Cymbelmineer]] ([[User talk:Cymbelmineer|talk]]) 12:50, 6 October 2010 (UTC) |
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== Error regarding "relations" == |
|||
Why show a photo from 2002, i.e. almost a decade ago, when Putin met the dictator Kim? And, as for recent years and given the situation today, it's wrong to say that North Korea has any close relations to Russia - besides, of course, being geographical neighbours. Before the fully justified editing the presented information in the beginning of the section seemed quite biased and gave wrong information about the relations between N.K. and other countries, in this case N.K. and Russia. For example - why not a picture of Kim meeting his South Korean or Chinese counterparts? Note: Any further act to change this is going to be seen as vandalism, and an attempt to falsify the actual political situation. But feel free to update the information in line with the actual and current situation in the relationship-question, and with the above said in mind. |
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One may also note that the actual relationships with the former Eastern block is mentioned in the next sentence; one way to go with the photo-issue could be to insert a picture of a N.K-leader meeting a Chinese or Soviet leader in the old days, when the relationship actually was a strong one - today N.K. is quite isolated; even the sole undisputable international 'partner' today, China, is sometimes of different opinion than the regime in N.K. <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Sayhellotomylittlefriend|Sayhellotomylittlefriend]] ([[User talk:Sayhellotomylittlefriend|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Sayhellotomylittlefriend|contribs]]) 00:48, 10 October 2010 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
|||
:Don't threaten to mark something as vandalism; that's disruptive editing and can get you blocked. One of the reasons we use that image is because we don't have images of the other scenarios you've given. And that's not an excuse to go uploading images of them - at least, not unless you can find one that fulfills licensing issues. We take what we can get here, and that's all we've got. — [[User:HelloAnnyong|'''<span style="color: #aaa">Hello</span><span style="color: #666">Annyong</span>''']] <sup>[[User talk:HelloAnnyong|(say whaaat?!)]]</sup> 04:23, 10 October 2010 (UTC) |
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== North Korean literature == |
== North Korean literature == |
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This article should be updated to remove all references to NK as a communist state, outside of historical discussion. The constitution was amended in 2009 to change the political basis from Marxism-Leninism to songun (military first). It is, even by its own description, a military state rather than a communist state. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.65.216.123 ( talk) 16:21, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
The article calls it a "Juche" state - that's another made up word self-applied by North Korea. I suspect there's no shortage of reliable sources that describe it as a "communist dictatorship". Rklawton ( talk) 04:50, 21 February 2010 (UTC)
Very interesting discussion. I believe that all of the terms you have touched on ( communism, militarism, Stalinism, and nationalism) could be applied to North Korea, and have played a part in shaping the ruling regime's government. I've also heard it described as a Rogue state due to its utter self reliance policy (internally called " Juche"). Time will only tell if it can remain in uneasy equilibrium, or if recent events (See ROKS Cheonan sinking) will cause it to crumble due to external and internal belligerent pressure....-- Gniniv ( talk) 04:35, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
I think that it should be clarified in a general discussion what is meant by describing a state as communist, nationalist, republic, kingdom, or whatever. Is this designation intended to reflect the respective goverment's wording, the de-facto style of government, or what? If we say that we describe the de-facto government style, then (if it becomes clear that Kim Jong-Un will be the next head of state) then it may well be appropriate to call North Korea a de-facto absolute hereditary monarchy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.185.126.78 ( talk) 14:44, 28 July 2010 (UTC)
This whole article is one sided pro DPRK. There is nothing mentioned about the poverty of people living there.
This article looks like a DPRK guided propaganda tour of North Korea. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.81.36.77 ( talk) 09:27, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
I agree, this article is ridiculously pro-North Korea. The New York Times just published a recent article showing how miserable and what an enormous failure this country is. It is clearly a FAIL. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.108.28.14 ( talk) 11:58, 14 June 2010 (UTC)
Problems with the economic section - there is no mention made of rampant starvation, the fact that most of the country exists without electricity, or that most N. Korean industry either sits idle or makes products no one wants. Cell phone use is cited as an example of N. Korea's wonderful growth and modernization - how about comparing cell phone ownership/usage rates with S. Korea and China? Why is there no mention whatsoever at the inability of the N. Korean government to provide even the most basic needs of its citizens, and procluding individual efforts for meeting those needs, so that there is the starvation mentioned before as well as repeated attempts by many to leave the country, in spite of grave repercussions to those who make the attempt and their families. The tone of the economy section makes N. Korea sound like a really wonderful place, but the data used to make this assumption comes soley from a biased data from within N. Korea and has no counter-balance (FAO uses almost entirely self-reported data). Compare with tone on economy section for US or Brazil - problems are mentioned repeatedly. There is no such counterbalance in the N. Korea article. If this is what passes for Wikipedia's standards, Wikipedia will not continue as a useful resource. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.184.231.42 ( talk) 20:02, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
This article is one of the most one-sided articles on Wikipedia that I have ever read. It is obviously written by/for the DPRK. 173.165.120.65 ( talk) 19:16, 27 September 2010 (UTC)
Currently the article reads: "Almost 100% of the population has access to water and sanitation, but it is not completely potable." I wonder if there are any data to support this statement, or to further qualify what is meant by "not completely potable". Does anyone have examples of waterborne disease outbreaks in North Korea, or any data on the percentage of the population served by treated water? I can't-unsurprisingly-find anything particularly useful on the internet to back up the statement either way. 2008 census data (reported on here apparently indicates that 85% of the population in North Korea is served by drinking water. This recent report from Amnesty International states that "Oxfam halted its aid operation on clean water in and around the capital Pyongyang because of the difficulties assessing the impact of its aid programme in North Korea". We might suppose that if aid agencies are providing water around the capital, then the drinking water infrastructure is in a very poor state. It also states that health facilities are frequently without running water. Jimjamjak ( talk) 13:55, 15 July 2010 (UTC)
{{
editsemiprotected}}
the text says "North Korea continues to have strong ties with its socialist southeast Asian allies in Vietnam, Laos, and Cambodia."
Cambodia is not a socialist country
158.169.131.14 (
talk)
15:32, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
There seems to be conflicting statements on the title of the presiding officer of the SPA Presidium. The title in the infobox appears as President of the Presidium, where as in the list of heads of state of North Korea, it is Chairman. The Constitution [1] itself has conflicting titles, firstly naming the presiding officer as "President", then going on to say "The SPA shall elect its chairman and vice chairmen. The chairman shall preside over the sessions." Which title should be used?-- The Taerkasten ( talk) 12:21, 29 July 2010 (UTC)
From the lede:
'It is reported as having one of the world's worst human rights records.[23] After the collapse of the Soviet Union, there was a famine which killed an estimated 2-3 million.'
2-3 million what? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.101.184.139 ( talk • contribs) 15:08, August 8, 2010
Thanks. I agree it was obvious but we shouldn't be asking the reader to make assumptions - especially in the lede. -- 78.100.235.101 ( talk) 10:25, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
Hey there. I'm sure that it would be more fitting to refer to North Korea as DPRK in the opening sentence of the article, as I have done in my recent edit, but I would also see it necessary to move the article to Democratic People's Republic of Korea, even if the rest of the article referred to NK. All other states' respective articles, that I know of, should surely refer to the full title of the country at the article's beginning, and possibly under /wiki/Official_Name? Just a thought · AarnKrry · Words speak louder than actions · 18:33, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
Wouldn't it be more accurate to describe north korea as an absolute monarchy, rather than a dictatorship? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.171.71.216 ( talk • contribs) 22:43, August 22, 2010
Kim Il-Sung passed power to his son Kim-jung il. and he plans to pass power to his son Jong Un. that sounds like an absolute monarchy to me. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.171.71.216 ( talk) 04:15, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
Recently an addition has been made to the wikipedia article "Sports in North Korea" under the section of "Domestic Football". The addition reads as followed:
In September 2010, the first official friendly match between a domestic football team and a foreign club took place in the Kim Il-Sung Stadium. In these two matches Singapore-based "German All Stars" (GAS) played two matches against the 2nd and 3rd team of Pyongyang. The matches ended 1-0 respectively 4-2 for the Korean side. GAS Midfielder Matthias Bertl became the first German footballer to ever score a goal in the DPRK and also the first ever to score two goals. Further first-time records were set by Rene Schieber with the first ever shot on goal by a German footballer and Hendrik Bohne being the first footballer to nutmeg a DPRK player during an official match. As part of the team Simone Magnani become the first ever Italian to play a friendly in the DPRK. The Team was led by Florian Schmidt as the Captain for the opening match and consisted further of Steffen Schacher, Ingo Hartmann, Joerg Buenzel, Dr. Hermann Bergmann, Denis Mecklenburg, Philipp von Pein, Helge Muenkel and Thomas Berner in addition to previous mentioned players.
This addition is referring to the first official friendly match between a foreign team and a domestic football team and was conceived by the North Korean site as a very important gesture of friendship - especially in times of rising sanctions that mainly effect the people of the DPRK rather than the government.
We therefore would like to request to add this section to the sports section of the article "North Korea" to show that there is in fact interaction with outside countries besides the Olympics, World Cup (Qualifiers) and other official tournaments which shall have a signaling effect to all readers.
Thank you very much for your consideration
HBohne ( talk) 13:10, 17 September 2010 (UTC)
According to the Temporary capital article...
Is this view correct? If so, is it worth mentioning it in this article?
Well, North Korea's 1972 constitution says... (according to http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Constitution_of_North_Korea_(1972) )
but the constitution has been revised in 1992 and 1998... KPUFFERFİSH Ṫ• Ċ 09:58, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
the article would look much better. I have the image, but do not know anything about formatting it. The article is defintiely improving since IK last saw it, by the way, well done.-- Cymbelmineer ( talk) 10:01, 6 October 2010 (UTC)
Maybe some information on North Korean Literature should be inserted? Or at least there should be short section with a link to the wikipage "North Korean Literature"? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sayhellotomylittlefriend ( talk • contribs) 01:18, 10 October 2010 (UTC)
This isn't a big deal, but the article is locked, so I can't do anything about it. There is a sentence in the opening paragraph that reads: "The country's government follows the Juche ideology of self-reliance, developed by the country's former President, Kim Il-Sung." The main article on Juche however, in the section "criticism" states "...Juche is nothing but a sham developed to establish Kim Il-sung as a political thinker alongside Mao Zedong." with reasons for this given afterwords.
I think it would be a good idea to perhaps say "The country's government claims to follow the Juche ideology..." or maybe "The country's government purportedly follows the Juche ideology..."
Small change, but I can't do it, and in the name of accuracy, I think it's important. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.202.225.227 ( talk) 00:43, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
m
Reverted edits by
Sayhellotomylittlefriend (
talk) to last revision by HelloAnnyong (
HG
(Custom)) |
No edit summary |
||
Line 164: | Line 164: | ||
:::Ah, didn't catch it. Cheers.--[[User:Cymbelmineer|Cymbelmineer]] ([[User talk:Cymbelmineer|talk]]) 12:50, 6 October 2010 (UTC) |
:::Ah, didn't catch it. Cheers.--[[User:Cymbelmineer|Cymbelmineer]] ([[User talk:Cymbelmineer|talk]]) 12:50, 6 October 2010 (UTC) |
||
== Error regarding "relations" == |
|||
Why show a photo from 2002, i.e. almost a decade ago, when Putin met the dictator Kim? And, as for recent years and given the situation today, it's wrong to say that North Korea has any close relations to Russia - besides, of course, being geographical neighbours. Before the fully justified editing the presented information in the beginning of the section seemed quite biased and gave wrong information about the relations between N.K. and other countries, in this case N.K. and Russia. For example - why not a picture of Kim meeting his South Korean or Chinese counterparts? Note: Any further act to change this is going to be seen as vandalism, and an attempt to falsify the actual political situation. But feel free to update the information in line with the actual and current situation in the relationship-question, and with the above said in mind. |
|||
One may also note that the actual relationships with the former Eastern block is mentioned in the next sentence; one way to go with the photo-issue could be to insert a picture of a N.K-leader meeting a Chinese or Soviet leader in the old days, when the relationship actually was a strong one - today N.K. is quite isolated; even the sole undisputable international 'partner' today, China, is sometimes of different opinion than the regime in N.K. <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Sayhellotomylittlefriend|Sayhellotomylittlefriend]] ([[User talk:Sayhellotomylittlefriend|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Sayhellotomylittlefriend|contribs]]) 00:48, 10 October 2010 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
|||
:Don't threaten to mark something as vandalism; that's disruptive editing and can get you blocked. One of the reasons we use that image is because we don't have images of the other scenarios you've given. And that's not an excuse to go uploading images of them - at least, not unless you can find one that fulfills licensing issues. We take what we can get here, and that's all we've got. — [[User:HelloAnnyong|'''<span style="color: #aaa">Hello</span><span style="color: #666">Annyong</span>''']] <sup>[[User talk:HelloAnnyong|(say whaaat?!)]]</sup> 04:23, 10 October 2010 (UTC) |
|||
== North Korean literature == |
== North Korean literature == |
Template:Outline of knowledge coverage
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
North Korea article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
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Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
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Index,
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![]() | Please stay calm and civil while commenting or presenting evidence, and do not make personal attacks. Be patient when approaching solutions to any issues. If consensus is not reached, other solutions exist to draw attention and ensure that more editors mediate or comment on the dispute. |
![]() | Please stay calm and civil while commenting or presenting evidence, and do not make personal attacks. Be patient when approaching solutions to any issues. If consensus is not reached, other solutions exist to draw attention and ensure that more editors mediate or comment on the dispute. |
![]() | This article is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on 12 dates. show |
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
North Korea article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives:
Index,
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This article should be updated to remove all references to NK as a communist state, outside of historical discussion. The constitution was amended in 2009 to change the political basis from Marxism-Leninism to songun (military first). It is, even by its own description, a military state rather than a communist state. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.65.216.123 ( talk) 16:21, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
The article calls it a "Juche" state - that's another made up word self-applied by North Korea. I suspect there's no shortage of reliable sources that describe it as a "communist dictatorship". Rklawton ( talk) 04:50, 21 February 2010 (UTC)
Very interesting discussion. I believe that all of the terms you have touched on ( communism, militarism, Stalinism, and nationalism) could be applied to North Korea, and have played a part in shaping the ruling regime's government. I've also heard it described as a Rogue state due to its utter self reliance policy (internally called " Juche"). Time will only tell if it can remain in uneasy equilibrium, or if recent events (See ROKS Cheonan sinking) will cause it to crumble due to external and internal belligerent pressure....-- Gniniv ( talk) 04:35, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
I think that it should be clarified in a general discussion what is meant by describing a state as communist, nationalist, republic, kingdom, or whatever. Is this designation intended to reflect the respective goverment's wording, the de-facto style of government, or what? If we say that we describe the de-facto government style, then (if it becomes clear that Kim Jong-Un will be the next head of state) then it may well be appropriate to call North Korea a de-facto absolute hereditary monarchy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.185.126.78 ( talk) 14:44, 28 July 2010 (UTC)
This whole article is one sided pro DPRK. There is nothing mentioned about the poverty of people living there.
This article looks like a DPRK guided propaganda tour of North Korea. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.81.36.77 ( talk) 09:27, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
I agree, this article is ridiculously pro-North Korea. The New York Times just published a recent article showing how miserable and what an enormous failure this country is. It is clearly a FAIL. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.108.28.14 ( talk) 11:58, 14 June 2010 (UTC)
Problems with the economic section - there is no mention made of rampant starvation, the fact that most of the country exists without electricity, or that most N. Korean industry either sits idle or makes products no one wants. Cell phone use is cited as an example of N. Korea's wonderful growth and modernization - how about comparing cell phone ownership/usage rates with S. Korea and China? Why is there no mention whatsoever at the inability of the N. Korean government to provide even the most basic needs of its citizens, and procluding individual efforts for meeting those needs, so that there is the starvation mentioned before as well as repeated attempts by many to leave the country, in spite of grave repercussions to those who make the attempt and their families. The tone of the economy section makes N. Korea sound like a really wonderful place, but the data used to make this assumption comes soley from a biased data from within N. Korea and has no counter-balance (FAO uses almost entirely self-reported data). Compare with tone on economy section for US or Brazil - problems are mentioned repeatedly. There is no such counterbalance in the N. Korea article. If this is what passes for Wikipedia's standards, Wikipedia will not continue as a useful resource. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.184.231.42 ( talk) 20:02, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
This article is one of the most one-sided articles on Wikipedia that I have ever read. It is obviously written by/for the DPRK. 173.165.120.65 ( talk) 19:16, 27 September 2010 (UTC)
Currently the article reads: "Almost 100% of the population has access to water and sanitation, but it is not completely potable." I wonder if there are any data to support this statement, or to further qualify what is meant by "not completely potable". Does anyone have examples of waterborne disease outbreaks in North Korea, or any data on the percentage of the population served by treated water? I can't-unsurprisingly-find anything particularly useful on the internet to back up the statement either way. 2008 census data (reported on here apparently indicates that 85% of the population in North Korea is served by drinking water. This recent report from Amnesty International states that "Oxfam halted its aid operation on clean water in and around the capital Pyongyang because of the difficulties assessing the impact of its aid programme in North Korea". We might suppose that if aid agencies are providing water around the capital, then the drinking water infrastructure is in a very poor state. It also states that health facilities are frequently without running water. Jimjamjak ( talk) 13:55, 15 July 2010 (UTC)
{{
editsemiprotected}}
the text says "North Korea continues to have strong ties with its socialist southeast Asian allies in Vietnam, Laos, and Cambodia."
Cambodia is not a socialist country
158.169.131.14 (
talk)
15:32, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
There seems to be conflicting statements on the title of the presiding officer of the SPA Presidium. The title in the infobox appears as President of the Presidium, where as in the list of heads of state of North Korea, it is Chairman. The Constitution [1] itself has conflicting titles, firstly naming the presiding officer as "President", then going on to say "The SPA shall elect its chairman and vice chairmen. The chairman shall preside over the sessions." Which title should be used?-- The Taerkasten ( talk) 12:21, 29 July 2010 (UTC)
From the lede:
'It is reported as having one of the world's worst human rights records.[23] After the collapse of the Soviet Union, there was a famine which killed an estimated 2-3 million.'
2-3 million what? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.101.184.139 ( talk • contribs) 15:08, August 8, 2010
Thanks. I agree it was obvious but we shouldn't be asking the reader to make assumptions - especially in the lede. -- 78.100.235.101 ( talk) 10:25, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
Hey there. I'm sure that it would be more fitting to refer to North Korea as DPRK in the opening sentence of the article, as I have done in my recent edit, but I would also see it necessary to move the article to Democratic People's Republic of Korea, even if the rest of the article referred to NK. All other states' respective articles, that I know of, should surely refer to the full title of the country at the article's beginning, and possibly under /wiki/Official_Name? Just a thought · AarnKrry · Words speak louder than actions · 18:33, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
Wouldn't it be more accurate to describe north korea as an absolute monarchy, rather than a dictatorship? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.171.71.216 ( talk • contribs) 22:43, August 22, 2010
Kim Il-Sung passed power to his son Kim-jung il. and he plans to pass power to his son Jong Un. that sounds like an absolute monarchy to me. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.171.71.216 ( talk) 04:15, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
Recently an addition has been made to the wikipedia article "Sports in North Korea" under the section of "Domestic Football". The addition reads as followed:
In September 2010, the first official friendly match between a domestic football team and a foreign club took place in the Kim Il-Sung Stadium. In these two matches Singapore-based "German All Stars" (GAS) played two matches against the 2nd and 3rd team of Pyongyang. The matches ended 1-0 respectively 4-2 for the Korean side. GAS Midfielder Matthias Bertl became the first German footballer to ever score a goal in the DPRK and also the first ever to score two goals. Further first-time records were set by Rene Schieber with the first ever shot on goal by a German footballer and Hendrik Bohne being the first footballer to nutmeg a DPRK player during an official match. As part of the team Simone Magnani become the first ever Italian to play a friendly in the DPRK. The Team was led by Florian Schmidt as the Captain for the opening match and consisted further of Steffen Schacher, Ingo Hartmann, Joerg Buenzel, Dr. Hermann Bergmann, Denis Mecklenburg, Philipp von Pein, Helge Muenkel and Thomas Berner in addition to previous mentioned players.
This addition is referring to the first official friendly match between a foreign team and a domestic football team and was conceived by the North Korean site as a very important gesture of friendship - especially in times of rising sanctions that mainly effect the people of the DPRK rather than the government.
We therefore would like to request to add this section to the sports section of the article "North Korea" to show that there is in fact interaction with outside countries besides the Olympics, World Cup (Qualifiers) and other official tournaments which shall have a signaling effect to all readers.
Thank you very much for your consideration
HBohne ( talk) 13:10, 17 September 2010 (UTC)
According to the Temporary capital article...
Is this view correct? If so, is it worth mentioning it in this article?
Well, North Korea's 1972 constitution says... (according to http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Constitution_of_North_Korea_(1972) )
but the constitution has been revised in 1992 and 1998... KPUFFERFİSH Ṫ• Ċ 09:58, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
the article would look much better. I have the image, but do not know anything about formatting it. The article is defintiely improving since IK last saw it, by the way, well done.-- Cymbelmineer ( talk) 10:01, 6 October 2010 (UTC)
Maybe some information on North Korean Literature should be inserted? Or at least there should be short section with a link to the wikipage "North Korean Literature"? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sayhellotomylittlefriend ( talk • contribs) 01:18, 10 October 2010 (UTC)
This isn't a big deal, but the article is locked, so I can't do anything about it. There is a sentence in the opening paragraph that reads: "The country's government follows the Juche ideology of self-reliance, developed by the country's former President, Kim Il-Sung." The main article on Juche however, in the section "criticism" states "...Juche is nothing but a sham developed to establish Kim Il-sung as a political thinker alongside Mao Zedong." with reasons for this given afterwords.
I think it would be a good idea to perhaps say "The country's government claims to follow the Juche ideology..." or maybe "The country's government purportedly follows the Juche ideology..."
Small change, but I can't do it, and in the name of accuracy, I think it's important. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.202.225.227 ( talk) 00:43, 11 October 2010 (UTC)