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This is better than the copyvio page that was here before. I'm concerned, however, by the repeated use to words like "greatest", "gifted", "eloquent" and what not. All have the smell of POV to them. This article is not supposed to convince the reader of Rabbi Lamm's greatness; a reasonable reader can make inference without having to be bombarded with commendations as to Reb Norman's oratorial skill. I have left most of these words in place for now.
Another concern is the link to the article on the controversy between Rabbi Lamm and Rabbi Elya Svei. Is this pertinent to the article? Is it a chillul hashem?
JFW |
T@lk
13:56, 19 May 2004 (UTC)
It would make no sense to say that "no-one" considers him great - IZAK, I wasn't saying this at all. But: this is an encyclopedia article, not aimed at lauding Rabbi Lamm, who is effectively leading Modern Orthodoxy and has written and spoken about very important issues facing Judaism nowadays.
The article on Rabbi Lamm will stand without promotional terms as to his oratorial skills; this is a matter of personal preference and therefore POV.
I was making the chillul Hashem comment more tongue-in-cheek than in any other form. But: the purpose of this link might be worthy of reexamination.
The link doesn't work, by the way. The "hatespeech" page has moved to
Relationship between segments of Judaism, which is a much more NPOV title anywayz.
JFW |
T@lk
08:21, 21 May 2004 (UTC)
This article is crammed with the most outragous POV. I'm only removing the obvious poiints that clearly defy the guidelines. jucifer 18:33, 11 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Really? Who is "Rabbi Nissim Cahn"? Where did he criticize Lamm? Jayjg (talk) 23:21, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
There are no other sources posted; you've invented Cahn. Please stop playing games. Jayjg (talk) 23:43, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
By the way, 0 Google hits. Jayjg (talk) 23:47, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
Who is he then? Please provide some credible reference. Jayjg (talk) 23:55, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
I agree. The Zionism section desperately needs an objective rewrite. I will look into it -- FeldBum 23:18, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
Shykee 05:05, 12 June 2006 (UTC)shykee
The section about TuM is horribly slanted. The idea that those who espouse TuM do so out of convenience whereas those who oppose it do so out of a concern for "purity" is insane. There is not one major proponent of TuM who would claim that the strength of TuM lies in any way in its convenience. Furthermore, I highly doubt how many of those who oppose TuM have actually read R. Lamm's book, so before we go about trumpeting the "purity" of R. Lamm's opponents, let's source this section a little better (or just keep it as I just left it - even though the comparison between Hirschian Torah Im Derekh Eretz and TuM is also awful). ---JSMajor
Removing unverifiedimage see: [1]. IZAK 06:13, 16 May 2005 (UTC)
Can someone add some sources to this? -- FeldBum 22:00, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
What about the (in)famous "Gifter Shechts Lamm on Pesach" speech? NeverWorker ( Drop me a line) 07:58, 5 October 2009 (UTC) Yes, its definitely enclopedic and important to mention. Rabbi Gifter gave over the Haredi take on Lamm and his views. Jackthepriest
Can't find that name anywhere so I deleted the part of the article mentioning him. I have a feeling it's a spelling error. -- Yodamace1 19:02, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
Someone should add a sexual abuse scandal section. Also what is his current mental health status? (i.e. dementia) and is he actually still involved in YU like the current article says? This isn't a great source since it's an opinion piece but see the following Beacon article that says he has dementia and is no longer involved with YU. http://thebeaconmag.com/2012/12/opinions/unneccessary-evil-the-crimes-of-a-newspaper/ Infoinfoinfo123 ( talk) 19:19, 6 January 2013 (UTC)
I do not think the explanation is accurate. Centrist Orthodoxy has little to do with modern orthodoxy itself. I believe MO is a category outside of the idea of centrist versus right/left orthodoxy. Centrist orthodoxy could maybe attached to traditionalist yeshivot that are more centered. 184.59.65.106 ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 03:05, 2 June 2013 (UTC)
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This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
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This is better than the copyvio page that was here before. I'm concerned, however, by the repeated use to words like "greatest", "gifted", "eloquent" and what not. All have the smell of POV to them. This article is not supposed to convince the reader of Rabbi Lamm's greatness; a reasonable reader can make inference without having to be bombarded with commendations as to Reb Norman's oratorial skill. I have left most of these words in place for now.
Another concern is the link to the article on the controversy between Rabbi Lamm and Rabbi Elya Svei. Is this pertinent to the article? Is it a chillul hashem?
JFW |
T@lk
13:56, 19 May 2004 (UTC)
It would make no sense to say that "no-one" considers him great - IZAK, I wasn't saying this at all. But: this is an encyclopedia article, not aimed at lauding Rabbi Lamm, who is effectively leading Modern Orthodoxy and has written and spoken about very important issues facing Judaism nowadays.
The article on Rabbi Lamm will stand without promotional terms as to his oratorial skills; this is a matter of personal preference and therefore POV.
I was making the chillul Hashem comment more tongue-in-cheek than in any other form. But: the purpose of this link might be worthy of reexamination.
The link doesn't work, by the way. The "hatespeech" page has moved to
Relationship between segments of Judaism, which is a much more NPOV title anywayz.
JFW |
T@lk
08:21, 21 May 2004 (UTC)
This article is crammed with the most outragous POV. I'm only removing the obvious poiints that clearly defy the guidelines. jucifer 18:33, 11 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Really? Who is "Rabbi Nissim Cahn"? Where did he criticize Lamm? Jayjg (talk) 23:21, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
There are no other sources posted; you've invented Cahn. Please stop playing games. Jayjg (talk) 23:43, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
By the way, 0 Google hits. Jayjg (talk) 23:47, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
Who is he then? Please provide some credible reference. Jayjg (talk) 23:55, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
I agree. The Zionism section desperately needs an objective rewrite. I will look into it -- FeldBum 23:18, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
Shykee 05:05, 12 June 2006 (UTC)shykee
The section about TuM is horribly slanted. The idea that those who espouse TuM do so out of convenience whereas those who oppose it do so out of a concern for "purity" is insane. There is not one major proponent of TuM who would claim that the strength of TuM lies in any way in its convenience. Furthermore, I highly doubt how many of those who oppose TuM have actually read R. Lamm's book, so before we go about trumpeting the "purity" of R. Lamm's opponents, let's source this section a little better (or just keep it as I just left it - even though the comparison between Hirschian Torah Im Derekh Eretz and TuM is also awful). ---JSMajor
Removing unverifiedimage see: [1]. IZAK 06:13, 16 May 2005 (UTC)
Can someone add some sources to this? -- FeldBum 22:00, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
What about the (in)famous "Gifter Shechts Lamm on Pesach" speech? NeverWorker ( Drop me a line) 07:58, 5 October 2009 (UTC) Yes, its definitely enclopedic and important to mention. Rabbi Gifter gave over the Haredi take on Lamm and his views. Jackthepriest
Can't find that name anywhere so I deleted the part of the article mentioning him. I have a feeling it's a spelling error. -- Yodamace1 19:02, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
Someone should add a sexual abuse scandal section. Also what is his current mental health status? (i.e. dementia) and is he actually still involved in YU like the current article says? This isn't a great source since it's an opinion piece but see the following Beacon article that says he has dementia and is no longer involved with YU. http://thebeaconmag.com/2012/12/opinions/unneccessary-evil-the-crimes-of-a-newspaper/ Infoinfoinfo123 ( talk) 19:19, 6 January 2013 (UTC)
I do not think the explanation is accurate. Centrist Orthodoxy has little to do with modern orthodoxy itself. I believe MO is a category outside of the idea of centrist versus right/left orthodoxy. Centrist orthodoxy could maybe attached to traditionalist yeshivot that are more centered. 184.59.65.106 ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 03:05, 2 June 2013 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Norman Lamm. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 23:39, 14 December 2017 (UTC)