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![]() | Freiwilligen was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 17 September 2009 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into Non-Germans in the German armed forces during World War II. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here. |
I've cut the following sections from the article. It's about a compilation album of songs, at least the majority being marches, from the Axis side in World War II. It may deserve an article of its own (it's hard to say, because there is no information about whether this is even a commercially released record; and compilation CDs, even if commercially released, are not necessarily notable), but I don't think a track listing belongs here merely because this term was used as its title. This all will probably involve a disambiguation page if this material is worth having at all. -- Jmabel | Talk 06:22, Apr 1, 2005 (UTC)
Although this article is just a stub, I am concerned to see an article about volunteers who served in the Nazi military that gives as references four books, that are as far as I can tell (and please correct me if I am wrong) all sympathetic to the Nazi cause. -- Jmabel | Talk 06:31, Apr 1, 2005 (UTC)
In (German) WWII usage, the term "europäische Freiwillige" generally only refers—as the article originally formulated it—to non-German units of Nazi Germany's armed forces, i.e. the Waffen-SS and (to a more limited degree) the Wehrmacht. The term really only gains circulation after 1943, and in particularly in 1944. Thus, references to other groups, especially those local SS auxiliaries created to specifically murder Jews in the Holocaust, only clouds the issue for the reader. I've therefore decided to make this a separate topic heading. In the future, I suggest removing some of the books that are only specifically related to the Einsatzgruppen from the list of references for this article. Zalktis 08:38, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
I've read very widely on the Second World War, and I can't recall ever seeing the term 'Europäische Freiwillige' used to describe these people. As this is not the term used in English-language sources, I'd suggest that the article be moved to something like Non-Germans in the Germany military during World War II. The use of the term 'volunteers' should be avoided as many of these men were either directly or in-effect conscripted. Nick-D ( talk) 23:41, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
Since there already is an article called Waffen-SS foreign volunteers and conscripts, why didn't you simply change the name of this one into Wehrmacht foreign volunteers and conscripts? Or did you intend this article to be on a higher level and include sub chapters, of which the SS volunteers are one?
As it is much of the text in the article seems geared to what happened to the Europeans who volunteered for the SS, which is fairly natural since the original title was geared towards that, but since you changed the title the ss stuff should probably have been put in the SS article instead?
So, please tell me what the idea is. Is this an umbrella article for all types of formations, including such as national militias in Lithuania that collaborated with the Germans, or is it a specialized article on the armed forces, i.e. the Wehrmacht? The answer to that will affect what info to put in here and what to lift out.-- Stor stark7 Speak 19:19, 16 October 2009 (UTC)
Hi
I created the article Freiwilligen and after an AFD nomination it was decided I should merge it into this article.
I will try and do that in next week or two, but can anyone tell me how to leave the freiwilligen article as a redirect ??
thanks Chaosdruid ( talk) 01:31, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
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An image used in this article,
File:BergmanArmenian.jpg, has been nominated for deletion at
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A discussion will now take place over on Commons about whether to remove the file. If you feel the deletion can be contested then please do so (
commons:COM:SPEEDY has further information). Otherwise consider finding a replacement image before deletion occurs.
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This article appears to contain original research used in compilation of various lists. I tagged the article accordingly. K.e.coffman ( talk) 14:43, 21 June 2016 (UTC)
Is the SS navbox needed? The article covers those who served in the Wehrmacht frontline units, Hiwis, etc, not just Waffen-SS. It appears only tangentially related. Should it be removed? K.e.coffman ( talk) 03:16, 29 June 2016 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Moved. (non-admin closure) Kharkiv07 ( T) 04:29, 7 July 2016 (UTC)
European non-Germans in the German armed forces during World War II →
Non-Germans in the German armed forces during World War II – Article scope has increased recently to include non-European units
K.e.coffman (
talk) 03:58, 30 June 2016 (UTC)
To Kierzek's point above, I had previously thought that this article was redundant. But Obernritter did a nice job rescuing the article. It now discusses what motivated these people and what the historical context was.
On the other two articles, Wehrmacht foreign volunteers and conscripts and Waffen-SS foreign volunteers and conscripts, they are mostly lists of units. Another difference is that they both include ethnic Germans in their discussions, while this article does not. On the other hand, Wehrmacht units, formed from foreign conscripts, were later transferred to the Waffen-SS, so there are some synergies there.
So one option may be to merge all three into one comprehensive article
Foreign volunteers and conscripts in the German armed forces during World War II. The other option would be to keep three separate articles. There's some overlap but it's not significant, IMO, so a merge would be fairly easy. Opinions?
K.e.coffman (
talk) 17:02, 2 July 2016 (UTC)
"For the majority of volunteers from Muslim communities, their animosity against the Soviets stemmed from their anti-Russian feelings, religious impulses (their disdain for Soviet atheism for example), coupled by the negative experience of Stalin's policies on nationality, and by the corresponding disruption to their way of life." Interesting how this passage does not even imply the most clear reason any nation hated soviets, and that is that it was a totalitarian communist country that suffered huge poverty and provided no civic liberties to it's citizenry. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.254.128.6 ( talk) 17:59, 12 May 2017 (UTC)
Should Wehrmacht foreign volunteers and conscripts be merged with this article? — Brigade Piron ( talk) 10:41, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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![]() | Freiwilligen was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 17 September 2009 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into Non-Germans in the German armed forces during World War II. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here. |
I've cut the following sections from the article. It's about a compilation album of songs, at least the majority being marches, from the Axis side in World War II. It may deserve an article of its own (it's hard to say, because there is no information about whether this is even a commercially released record; and compilation CDs, even if commercially released, are not necessarily notable), but I don't think a track listing belongs here merely because this term was used as its title. This all will probably involve a disambiguation page if this material is worth having at all. -- Jmabel | Talk 06:22, Apr 1, 2005 (UTC)
Although this article is just a stub, I am concerned to see an article about volunteers who served in the Nazi military that gives as references four books, that are as far as I can tell (and please correct me if I am wrong) all sympathetic to the Nazi cause. -- Jmabel | Talk 06:31, Apr 1, 2005 (UTC)
In (German) WWII usage, the term "europäische Freiwillige" generally only refers—as the article originally formulated it—to non-German units of Nazi Germany's armed forces, i.e. the Waffen-SS and (to a more limited degree) the Wehrmacht. The term really only gains circulation after 1943, and in particularly in 1944. Thus, references to other groups, especially those local SS auxiliaries created to specifically murder Jews in the Holocaust, only clouds the issue for the reader. I've therefore decided to make this a separate topic heading. In the future, I suggest removing some of the books that are only specifically related to the Einsatzgruppen from the list of references for this article. Zalktis 08:38, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
I've read very widely on the Second World War, and I can't recall ever seeing the term 'Europäische Freiwillige' used to describe these people. As this is not the term used in English-language sources, I'd suggest that the article be moved to something like Non-Germans in the Germany military during World War II. The use of the term 'volunteers' should be avoided as many of these men were either directly or in-effect conscripted. Nick-D ( talk) 23:41, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
Since there already is an article called Waffen-SS foreign volunteers and conscripts, why didn't you simply change the name of this one into Wehrmacht foreign volunteers and conscripts? Or did you intend this article to be on a higher level and include sub chapters, of which the SS volunteers are one?
As it is much of the text in the article seems geared to what happened to the Europeans who volunteered for the SS, which is fairly natural since the original title was geared towards that, but since you changed the title the ss stuff should probably have been put in the SS article instead?
So, please tell me what the idea is. Is this an umbrella article for all types of formations, including such as national militias in Lithuania that collaborated with the Germans, or is it a specialized article on the armed forces, i.e. the Wehrmacht? The answer to that will affect what info to put in here and what to lift out.-- Stor stark7 Speak 19:19, 16 October 2009 (UTC)
Hi
I created the article Freiwilligen and after an AFD nomination it was decided I should merge it into this article.
I will try and do that in next week or two, but can anyone tell me how to leave the freiwilligen article as a redirect ??
thanks Chaosdruid ( talk) 01:31, 12 December 2009 (UTC)
![]() |
An image used in this article,
File:BergmanArmenian.jpg, has been nominated for deletion at
Wikimedia Commons in the following category: Media without a source as of 19 July 2011
|
A discussion will now take place over on Commons about whether to remove the file. If you feel the deletion can be contested then please do so (
commons:COM:SPEEDY has further information). Otherwise consider finding a replacement image before deletion occurs.
This notification is provided by a Bot -- CommonsNotificationBot ( talk) 15:23, 20 July 2011 (UTC) |
This article appears to contain original research used in compilation of various lists. I tagged the article accordingly. K.e.coffman ( talk) 14:43, 21 June 2016 (UTC)
Is the SS navbox needed? The article covers those who served in the Wehrmacht frontline units, Hiwis, etc, not just Waffen-SS. It appears only tangentially related. Should it be removed? K.e.coffman ( talk) 03:16, 29 June 2016 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Moved. (non-admin closure) Kharkiv07 ( T) 04:29, 7 July 2016 (UTC)
European non-Germans in the German armed forces during World War II →
Non-Germans in the German armed forces during World War II – Article scope has increased recently to include non-European units
K.e.coffman (
talk) 03:58, 30 June 2016 (UTC)
To Kierzek's point above, I had previously thought that this article was redundant. But Obernritter did a nice job rescuing the article. It now discusses what motivated these people and what the historical context was.
On the other two articles, Wehrmacht foreign volunteers and conscripts and Waffen-SS foreign volunteers and conscripts, they are mostly lists of units. Another difference is that they both include ethnic Germans in their discussions, while this article does not. On the other hand, Wehrmacht units, formed from foreign conscripts, were later transferred to the Waffen-SS, so there are some synergies there.
So one option may be to merge all three into one comprehensive article
Foreign volunteers and conscripts in the German armed forces during World War II. The other option would be to keep three separate articles. There's some overlap but it's not significant, IMO, so a merge would be fairly easy. Opinions?
K.e.coffman (
talk) 17:02, 2 July 2016 (UTC)
"For the majority of volunteers from Muslim communities, their animosity against the Soviets stemmed from their anti-Russian feelings, religious impulses (their disdain for Soviet atheism for example), coupled by the negative experience of Stalin's policies on nationality, and by the corresponding disruption to their way of life." Interesting how this passage does not even imply the most clear reason any nation hated soviets, and that is that it was a totalitarian communist country that suffered huge poverty and provided no civic liberties to it's citizenry. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.254.128.6 ( talk) 17:59, 12 May 2017 (UTC)
Should Wehrmacht foreign volunteers and conscripts be merged with this article? — Brigade Piron ( talk) 10:41, 8 April 2020 (UTC)