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Archive on Talk:Nikola Tesla/Nationality and ethnicity "Tesla" is the romanian word for a tool that carpenters use. If you search "tesla cu maner de lemn" = tesla with handle (made) of wood you'll se what i'm on about. Tesla has nothing to do with weaving. In Romania we learn about Nicolae Tesla in school.
Teslea is a romanian familly name naturally derived from tesator. Tesator (romanian)= tessatore (italian)= tisserand (french)= weaver (english)
Someone who makes the textile (english), tesut (romanian), tissu (french).
Or someone who produces manufactured goods like clothes and similar using his hands, a Weaveler somehow.
This word would then take a more famillar form like in other latin languages :
In French language : four -> four + ie -> four(n)ier -> fournier We add "ie".
We do create names the same way in Romanian language : Tes (ator)-> Tes + ea -> Tes(l)ea -> Teslea We add "ea" sometimes pronounced "ia" in some dialects.
If French people had an equivalent name it would be : tisse (rand)-> tisse + ie -> tisse(l)ier -> tisselier
If Nicola would have been french his name would have been Tisselier.
The americans would still call him Teasler because in english is easy spell.
In english : weaver -> weave(l)er
I know I am coming to this discussion late, and see it is quite heated. Anyway to add an bit of pepper to the spicy argument. According to the following link (translated from Romanian), Nicholas Tesla had ethnic Istro-Romanian descent, possibly in addition to Serb ethnicity, as stated here:
It is considered as an immigrant American biographies Serbian. In reality he was Istro-Romanian, born the night of 9 to 10 July 1856 as the son of Milutin Tesla Orthodox priest and the Gica Măndici. Family father was anti-Ottoman border guards in the former Austro-Hungarian Empire. Originally the family was Draghici, but he was replaced in time by the nickname of Tesla, after the craft passed within the family, the carpenter (teslari). http://translate.google.com/translate?prev=hp&hl=en&js=y&u=http://ro.altermedia.info/stiintatehnologie/nicolae-tesla-sau-un-roman-venit-din-alt-spaiu-i_3263.html&sl=ro&tl=en&history_state0= —Preceding unsigned comment added by Chrisc62 ( talk • contribs) 14:30, 14 September 2009 (UTC)
Why not listen to what Tesla says/wants to be himself, and end all nationalist fights there?
He said this on 1 June 1892 in Belgrade:
And after that day he said to the students of the Belgrade Big School, just before he went to meet with King of Serbia Aleksandar Obrenović:
Tesla in the west kept always with him The Mountain Wreath of Petar II Petrović-Njegoš, and the numerous songs of Vojislav Ilić, Jovan Jovanović Zmaj and Đura Jakšić. In May of 1894 in the Century Magazine he wrote an article about Zmaj, about the suffers of Tesla's people on Kosovo and the tragedies faced ever since the Battle of Amsfeld and ends with "from that fatal battle all the way to the most recent time, for the Serbs there is a dark darkness, with only one star in the sky - Montenegro".
So just leave it to there, lol. -- PaxEquilibrium 09:50, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
==The irony will not be lost on this reader that croats are fighting for one serb born in Krajina to be considered a croatian citizen.There is still hope then for return for the 300'000 "croats" born in Krajina to come back one day to their "homeland"...
Ethnicity is one thing, religious affiliation (or certificate of baptism) is another==
What many people from former Yugoslavia can’t see is that an ethnicity or race of a person cannot be determined solely on religion. I’ve always thought that the denominations “ Croat”, “ Serb” and “ Bosniak” are just tools to (try to) justify what happened during the Yugoslav Wars of the 1990s. As a secularist, believe much more in Croatians, Serbians and Bosnians that speak the same Serbo-Croatian language than anything else. The rest it’s just ignorance, obscurantism, religious intolerance and propaganda at the service of corrupt politicians.
Telsa died many decades before all these tragedies happened in the poor and sad Balkans. And by the time of his birth he was born outside Serbia, and was an Austrian citizen from Dalmatia who was baptized Orthodox but wasn’t religious nor Serbian nationalist. And the concepts of Serbo-Croatian, Serbian or Croatian languages were still being developed during the 19th century — the official language of Austrian Empire was German.
So, to call Tesla and “ethnic Serb” sounds very bad to the ear. It should be better to define Tesla as an Austrian- Croatian, Yugoslav or simply Serbo-Croatian, I.M.H.O..-- MaGioZal 19:34, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
MaGioZal, please read through the loads of previous discussion on this issue on the talk page. You've came here and unilaterally started making edits against the previous established consensus. Take some time to review the previous discussions and consensus instead of just edit warring to "your" version. // laughing man 20:24, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
Is this guy for real? :) -- Methodius 22:22, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
Exactly like it, actually and for all the same reasons, which boil down to wishful thinking by nationalist/ethnicist/religious zealots. Incidentally, there are no ‘races’ at all, much less “Germanics” and “Slavs”. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.195.192.175 ( talk) 13:39, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
It would be easier if you would just put serbo-croatian scientist.But no,wikipedia needs to complicate things.Why don't you put also austrian scientist.One more thing i would shut down croatian and bosnian wikipedia because they said that he was born in Croatia.Oh my god how could they do such a thing,maybe because he really was born in Croatia and that is the fact.That doesn't make him a serb because Croatia is not Serbia.Just put serbo-croatian scientist because that is the most correct.
Gentlemen, Kingdom of Croatia was a Constituent land of Austrian Empire with it's own parliament and Croatian language being one of the official languages of the empire. Tesla was born in, what was then called, Croatian Military Frontier. As for his nationality, he himself wrote in 1930ies that he is "equally proud of his Serbian descent and Croatian homeland" trying to bring Serbs and Croatians closer together, so it would be more precise to call him Serbo-Croatian inventor and close the debate... Especially since he would probably be appalled by use of his name in this display of nationalism which victimized people of Balkans trough history... Slaven0 ( talk) 12:09, 29 September 2013 (UTC)
(mv'ing this here ... J. D. Redding 04:24, 27 May 2007 (UTC))
When it comes about Tesla’s nationality everyone says things that are not true. Nobody knows the truth or accept the truth. They say he is either Serbian or Croatian but in fact he is an Istro-Romanian!
His original last name was Draghici, but over the years this name got replaced by his nickname “Tesla” (tesla – Romanian therm for adze ) because Nikola’s family were carpeters.
Henry Coandă has presented him as a „bănăţean” from Serbian Banat but he was a Istro-Romanian. Current revision - Scipione01 17:38, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
What can't you understand,he never said that he is a serb,he said:"ponosan sam svojim srpskim rodom i svojom hrvatskom domovinom".Why is it hard for all of you to understand this.He said that his motherland is Croatia,he had only Serb ancestry because of his roots.His grandmother was a croat,he has never been in Serbia, and Lika the Teslas birthplace was always a Croatian teritory.
It is refreshing to see that at least one serb is welcome in Croatia. True, it is a dead one, but still good news.
At the very least we should mention he was born in croatia upfront. It's ridiculous not to mention his place of birth at the very begining of his bio. Even if you're a stark raving serb nationalist, you have to acknowledge that he was *physically* born in croatia. If you later want to go on and say he was the archetypical Serb, go on by all means, but do *mention* where he was born. Frankman 19:10, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
Frankman 14:49, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
In this article, this is not mentioned at all, so the backgrounds of Nikola Tesla was not presented in an objective way. Moreoever, in the the new, updated information about the new memorial center and the museum built recently in his birthplace in Smiljan, is mising the fact that it is located in Croatia. In fact, in the whole article it seems to be tendency not to use word Croatia, although he was born, raised and finished high school there. The essential, important influence on him was made by his professor of mathematic and phisics in high school near Karlovac, Croatia. After he moved away, he visit Croatia several times and he was pronounced as honorary doctor at the University of Zagreb in Croatia. Nikola Tesla once stated that he is proud of his Serbian origin and of his country of Croatia. This quote should definitely exist in his biography, because it says a lot about him.
Consensus is not important because where you are afraid to write that he is born in today Croatia you are writing POV article. To answer why I will give examples how are written other articles:
You will not believe but custom on wiki is to write where is today people place of birth if they have been born in states or territory which today do not exist. To show how are users of this article against Croatia example is that nowhere is writen that Nikola Tesla is born in Croatian krajina but you write Military to evade Croatia question ?? This is very, very sad. Imagine what revert war will start when we from Croatia start to add place of birth Croatia and when user from Serbia deleted that !! Rjecina 5:03, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
For great "neutral" historians 1 other info. In XVI c. because of turkish attacks Croatia has been divided in military and civilian Croatia. Military Croatia has been Croatian and Slavonian krajina (you will say military frontier) and civilian Croatia has been Kingdom of Croatia. Rjecina 08:30, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
Maybe that was Serbia where Tesla was born? You would probably liked that, but even if the place was few miles south or wherever from the border of Croatia, do you really think that more important are your words that words of him who said: I AM PROUD OF MY COUNTRY CROATIA. I guess this is really difficult to her to you. I am just wandering are you aware of your animosity (to say it soft) towards Croatia - you are counting miles just not to accept what is hurting you. And I am just wandering, what would you say if they put that somebody born at that time was born in the Kingdom of Croatia and Slavonia, and that he was born in Zemun. For somebody who supports radicals and seselj, what you probably do, it could be as somebody hits you, although it's true.
You can say what you want but this are words of BBC:
"The scientist once famously stated that he was equally proud of his Serb origin and Croatian homeland. " [1]
I am sure that somebody very, very wise after long thinking will say that this is POV of BBC, like 1 other user from Serbia (PANONIAN) that UN has been POV in resolutions against Serbia during Yugoslav wars. This has Tesla been saying and this will be writen. We will have 1 very nice revert war is you do not want to accept Tesla words :)) --- Rjecina 9:52, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
I have no problem with the quote, assuming that the citation is valid, but it does not belong in the lead section, which is already too long. According to the Manual of Style, the lead should not be longer than 4 paragraphs. I'd also suggest that the addition of quotes to the lead is not within the spirit of the style guidelines for the lead. GlassFET 16:03, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
Again we need to believe you and not BBC. You want that we believe person which write that Tesla is not born in Croatian Krajina or which is deleting that Tesla is born in place which is today Croatia. "Your" article is having 1 very great mistake. In article is writen that "Tesla is honoured in both Croatia and Serbia". Reading article we know why is honoured in Serbia but we do not know why in Croatia. What is connection between Tesla and Croatia. Article is POV and your reverts are POV. Try to make somebody else afraid with tendentious editing. If something about that happen in worst scenario for me we will both be blocked. --- Rjecina 18:23, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
Lets are be clear I am always right :))
(Deputy Secretary General of the Council of Europe)
My finding of this sites has been really ease and fast using Google.
There is no way that somebody can defeat all this sites and original sources of Nikola Tesla words including telegraph message and book My Inventions from 1919. I will give you until 40 hours to come in agreement with sources. Then I will return Tesla words in article. If there will be problems wiki administrators will need to enter game and say who is right I or you all. --- Rjecina 20:38, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
To stop this story about telegram I think it will be best to show link for telegram site. This is only photto of telegram because original is in Belgrade Museum of Nikola Tesla. I hope that now this problem will in the end be solved. http://www.teslasociety.com/teslavillage.htm I am really interested if there will be any more question about that. In my personal thinking and thinking of Tesla historians he has been strong supporter of Yugoslavia so end of telegram is in his style. 1 other stuff about nobody speak in this article when Tesla has come to USA he has identified himself as being born in Croatia. It is real important to say he has not spoken in Immigration office about Military Frontier, Austria or Serbia but about Croatia. Will this problem be now solved ? --- Rjecina 01:00, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
Đorđe ti si glup ko kurac,ti uopce ne bi smio uređivati nista o tesli zato što si srbin i svaki dokaz koji govori da je tesla hrvat ti ces reci da nije zato jer si srbin i neznam ko ti daje pravo da sereš jer nemas pojma nista o hrvatskoj.Hrvatska je u to vrijeme postojala samo sto ti to negiras zato da ne bi ispalo ni slucajno da je tesla imalo hrvat jel to bi unistilo valjda jedinog veceg znanstvenika kojeg "imate".Uostalom ti tolko volis svoju domovinu i ponosan si na nju i njezinu povijest da si napisao da se zoves george.Majmun si i sram te moze biti.Vazno da seres o hrvatskoj,a ne postujes ni srbiju.GLUPANE,NEMOJ SRAT VISE.
Oprosti mi molim te,nisam ja kriv što si ti tako pametan.Po tvojim razmišljanjima Tesla je bio Austrijanac.Sigurno su ljudi rođeni u vojnoj krajini nazivani Austrijancima ili vojno krajinašima.Pošto je moj deda bio Srbin,i što imam nešto Srbske krvi da li to mene čini Srbinom.Naravno da me ne čini,imam Hrvatsko državljanstvo,a ne Srbsko.Rođen sam u Hrvatskoj,a ne u Srbiji.Pošto ti navodiš da je Tesla bio rođen u nečem što je danas Hrvatska,onda su svi koje znam Jugoslaveni,a ne Hrvati,Srbi,Slovenci,......i ostalih nacionalnosti.Onda u svim dokumentima treba pisati da su ljudi rođeni u Jugoslaviji,Jugoslaveni i sad bi trebali imati Jugoslavensko državljanstvo. http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=466276,gledaj spomen ploču,slika 15 po redu.
I have not known that in XIX century has been more of 2 parts :)) Why Croatian krajina and not Military Frontier ? Answer is simple: Article will have peace without nationalistic revert wars. Second reason with which maybe you will not agree that in the end this (something like this) has been wish of Tesla if we look what he is saying in 1884 (immigration office in USA) and in 1936 (telegram false or not it has been from his lifetime so he has opportunity to say that it is false) -- Rjecina 17:44, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
Lets look for consensus so that article start with "Born in Smiljan, Croatian Krajina, he was an ethnic Serb". Reasons for starting article in this way are:
In the end revert wars are not important but only important are Tesla words.
I will wait for 7 days that somebody give arguments which will defeat this 4 for writing Croatian Krajina. If nobody can defeat them I will change article begining in Croatian Krajina. -- Rjecina 21:14, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
Uh!
"Croatian Frontier" and "Banat Frontier" are all just stupid unofficial names for a part of the Military Frontier that, as such, never really existed.
If you want to go more in precise of the Military Frontier, say Karlovac Generalate and then Smiljan, Gospic.
Perhaps you should write that the birthplace of people in south Italy is "Megale Hellas" or people born in Kosovo, Macedonia and Sanjak with "Old Serbia" their birthplace. Of course not.
I live in Croatia and I demand that it be put that he was born in present-day Croatia. But born in Hrvatska Krajina - thats not even nationalistic, thats just false. -- 195.29.129.126 12:51, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
"As a son of my homeland I feel it is my duty to help the city of Zagreb in every respect with my advice and work (Smatram svojom duznoscu da kao rodjeni sin svoje zemlje pomognem gradu Zagrebu u svakom pogledu savjetom i cinom)" Nikola Tesla 24 May 1892
Croatian Krajina: never exsisted. This isn't a neutral listing and goes against Wikipedia ethics. In its current form, it is massively Serb-biased. Simple. The listing should say Smiljan, Lika, Croatia which was then part of the Austo-Hungarian Empire. Why are the pure facts not stated here? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tooma2 ( talk • contribs) 03:14, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
Article is POV because editors do not allow that Tesla words about his nationality and homeland be written in begining of article. First explanation for refusal has been that there is not evidence for that statement. When evidence has been found new reason has become that this is not for begining of article. Finding new reasons for refusal of statement is evidence of POV thinking. Rjecina 17:38, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
Regardless of that quote, Smiljan is obviously in Croatia now. It's ridiculous that this fact is never mentioned in the intro nor in the infobox. Zocky | picture popups 22:22, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
There are many true and untrue things here. Fact # 1 - Croatia did exist at that time. Croatia was in union under Habsburg crown, but it was not just some abstract area, it was in fact kingdom that elected Ferdinand I as a king (1527). Fact # 2 - it is true that when Tesla was born, Smiljan was under Military Frontier (Vojna Krajina), which was a temporary zone along the border with Ottoman Empire and administered directly by the military authorities of Habsburg Monarchy, not by Croatian Sabor and Ban. It returned under the civil administration of Croatia in 1881. Fact # 3 - It would be absolutely correct thing to say that Tesla was born in Croatia and that he was ethnic Serb and that he accepted both identities.(Even if the area was under military administration, it was still Croatia. So, what, Lastovo was not Croatia or Boka was not Montenegro or Batajnica was not Serbia because it was administered by JNA???) That would be the only correct thing to say. But, I guess this place is a pissing match between Serbs and Croats (for example, I am Croatian, but ethnic Slovenian. And I have no problem with this dual identity, and I think that people should accept Tesla's) Potjernik
I have given until now 3 options of article beginnings but you have all until now refused. this options have been:
I do not have time now to play (start great revert war) about this article, but when I start end text will be:
Simple speaking who is playing with sword .... Rjecina 14:35, 10 august 2007 (UTC)
In these discussions, I've seen comments of blood, like Serbian blood. Do you people really think there is something like 'blood'? Or that the 'blood' of a Serb differs from the 'blood' of a Russian or an Englishman? Let's put it like this! You are an Englishman. You have a terrible car accident somewhere in Bosnia, year is 1983 A.D. Let's say you have all the gear and devices to transfer blood. There are other English people there with you, and some German people. They check each others blood types and realise none of them can give you blood. None of them is type O, and you have a B- blood type. You are dying and in desperate need of help. Your English and German buddies drive you 2 miles east of the place of your accident and you enter a village, or better said a small town full of people. Three friends, Josip, Osman and Nemanja, sitting at the Cafe bar look at you all, and see that your friends are carrying you, all covered in blood. They start shouting 'Do you need help?', and your friends say that they need blood immediately and if some of them is healthy and has B- blood type or O- blood type, can he give blood? They are all healthy, but Josip is A+, Osman is A+ as well and Nemanja is O-. Nemanja, a young Serb gives blood to you. You get better and survive. This is not a joke nor it is a coincidence. It is the Serbian blood, the great Serbian blood that saved you. And now, you have become a Serb, or at least a bit Serb, because you are carrying Serbian blood. You may say goodbye to Englishdom, because Serbdom is your life now. You should be proud, because the blood of Serbs is what Tesla also had. It was the blood, not just any blood but the Serb blood. Tesla had Serbian blood. A man of his scientifical range would be worthless without being a Serb. People don't fool yourselves. Ideas aren't important. It's the blood that's important, all that matters. Customs and agenda are also useless. It's the blood that defines us. Our familiy lines, and our antcestors have existed since the forming of our nations. I myself a Croat haven't got any antcestors before the 7th century. God created my first antcestor then (in 698. A.D.) and God said:"You will forever be Croat. I am giving you Croat blood, for Croatdom to exist from now on to eternity! Long live Croats, may the Croat blood give them glory!" People, don't try to trick me because i won't believe you. You cannot convince me that I had some antcestors in 2357. B.C. That is impossible. But maybe, just maybe i had. But then they were Croats even then and that proves that Croats are in fact 3000 years older than it was until now believed. Blood, yes!
Retrieved from " http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Nikola_Tesla/Archive_10"
Tesla must have been a geneticaly determined Serb. We shouldn't care about ideas. Just the genetics that matters. His ascedent antcestor that lived 4 million years ago was a monkey looking Serb. Or a Serb looking monkey? But the point is Serbdom and it's genes.
You disagree with me Džordže? About the 'Serb blood'. It's mentioned in the discussion at least two times. Such comments of Serbian blood, or English blood are nowadays primitive wouldn't you say? Tesla was a Serb, but his work is 0.000000000000000001% related to the Serbian state. How long was Tesla in Serbia again? Tesla should be part of Wikiproject Austria. Wasn't Austria where he was born and grew up? And Wikiproject United States.
In all others wikipedia in begining of article is writen text that he is of Serb origin and born in Smiljan (today Croatia). Few users (2 or 3)of english wiki are reverting all users which write that Nikola Tesla is born in today Croatia. Rjecina 17:14, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
After first non truth about consensus now there is another. On this discussion page users George D. Božović, Potjernik, Zocky, Frankman and I have supported writing that he is born in today Croatia. Against are users Simões, Overhere and you ?? This is 5 : 3 for writing that he is born in today Croatia. I will tell truth that I have not looked text under number 3 and 4 because his nationality is without question Serbian. Now you can please explain from where there are your numbers 2 for writing today Croatia and 6 against ?? Rjecina 20:20, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
Who will say which arguments are stronger ? You. I only know that your english wiki version is against all others wiki and this argument need to be stronger of any other if this is wikipedia. After saying that I still do not understand why is my version historically inaccurate if only change is that his birth place is now in Croatia ? I will be happy to her reasons for that Rjecina 21:38, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
Just coming lured by the RfC. A few remarks.
I just want to ask a question,where were Teslas parents born?I don't mean in what country but in what city,because now Serbia will probably fall apart on only Beograd and local surroundings.I mean because Kosovo will now be an independent country like Crna Gora,so if Tesla's parents were born in any of this future countrys then you won't be able to say that he is a Serbian, but you wil need to say that his roots are from one of these countrys. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 89.172.51.123 ( talk)
So Tesla and his parents were born in Vojna Krajina.How can you say then that he was a Serb?His only connection with Serbia could be his religion.But you have to take in observation that many people were then Pravoslavci and religion shouldn't take role in figuring out nationality. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 89.172.41.78 ( talk) 11:18, August 23, 2007 (UTC)
But he has to have a connection with Serbia what Tesla didn't have.He can't be an ethnic Serb from nowhere.Please explain your words.
Also when did Tesla declare that he is a Serb.
I understand this now but the problem is that Tesla was born in what is today Croatia and it should also say that he is a Croatian scientist because he went to school here,also when someone said that Tesla said that he was equally proud of his Serbian stock and Croatian homeland someone said that this was made up so I can also say that Tesla din't declare as a Serbian and that this was made up.Here is a link http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=466276,gledaj ,look at the 15th picture.Also I see from your words that you accept Crna Gora,Vojvodina & Kosovo as their own nation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.1.112.252 ( talk) 21:05, August 25, 2007 (UTC)
According to your logic,you should go tell all croats born in Bosnia that they are bosnians. Good luck with that (write your will before you do that)
Nikola Tesla's a CROAT. It doesnt matter his Serb origin - he didnt even spend A DAY in Serbia. The current article is proChetnik because it writes that he's Serb. STOP COUNTING BLODCELS!!! —The preceding
unsigned comment was added by
UstashkiDom (
talk •
contribs) 19:25, August 23, 2007 (UTC).
"I'm equally proud of my Serbian origin and my Croatian homeland."
some idiot removed the reference which was clearly written in a pre-WWII telegram. can someone explain this? -- 83.131.18.67 11:39, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
The intro calls his homeland Croatian Krajina when back then it was Serbian Krajina, and if Croatians felt that everyone who lived in Croatia then why did they expel 250,000 Serbians in 1995? Do you think Nikola Tesla a Serb by blood and religon would have been so proud then? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.194.187.81 ( talk) 17:02, August 28, 2007 (UTC)
Dear god why do idiots like you exist. First of all it is proven with documentation that those Serbs were ordered to leave by the Serbian generals in the area. Croats did not expel them. Second, what does that have to do with Tesla being born in Croatia or not. How delusional are you?
Why is this article WikiProject Serbia.This article doesn't talk about Serbia and this should be changed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.172.33.29 ( talk) 13:23, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
Here we go again,you can't say that he was a 100 precent Serb.He was not only a Serbian scientist and I have seen many artciles about scientists and it doesn't say this is a part of wikiproject some-country. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.1.116.200 ( talk) 15:08, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
I came to this article from the "Lamest Edit Wars" page to check about this particular question. It's worse than I thought. Would you find the sentence "He was an ethnic Serb subject of the blablabla" in Britannica? I doubt it, and honestly I don't care about that. Ethnicity is a dubious concept, not backed by much science, it would be much better to mostly leave it out of an encyclopedia except where really necessary or relevant. Isn't there a better way to put it without invoking "ethnicity"? 213.114.83.242 11:44, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
I know nothing about the Serbian/Croatian debate, and I'm completely neutral on the subject, coming from the Request for Comment. It seems clear to me that a compromise is in order, mentioning that Tesla was born in what was then known as ________ and is now Croatia, and that he was ethnically Serbian.-- Gloriamarie 22:44, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
He was a Serb and a scientist. But not a Serbian scientist (in a sense that he belonged to Serbian science), simply because his scientific work and education had nothing to do with Serbia. But the article states that he was a Serbian, twice. First reference is "Serbian inventor, physicist, mechanical engineer, and electrical engineer" and later it's again written that he was a Serb. One of those statements should certainly be removed as it's abundant information. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.164.33.220 ( talk) 23:06, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
It appears that Serb and Croat nationalists have decided to make this talk page a battleground for their squabbling over Tesla's ethnicity. The talk page for the 0.999... article has a special page where arguments against the proofs given in the article are placed (to avoid cluttering up the main talk page with unproductive comments). Would anyone object to the same being done here for the serb/croat stuff? Simões ( talk/ contribs) 14:03, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
Update: It's funny how fast another ethnicity argument started. The subtalkpage is born, and things are already a lot quieter. Good day! Simões ( talk/ contribs) 15:08, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
It's all so silly. Croats and Serbs should just be proud that he's from the Balkans and then consider the fact that he wouldn't give a rat's a** about them since one of his proudest moments was becoming an American. haha Maîtresse 07:46, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
Tesla was a Serb, born in Croatia. The article is not objective, and I think objectivity is important. One harmless example of that is presenting banknote of Serbia with his image and not presenting the croatian one. Apparently this wiki page is edited by serbian wiki page, and that's why it's not objective. I suggest that the page should be edited by another wiki project. That's how we will stop counting Tesla's blood cells and manipulating with the history. Give Tesla in the hands of neutral party. Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.164.35.251 ( talk) 12:04, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
- Tesla was a Serb and only because some other politicians from some other country where he was born are trying to associate Tesla's name to their country doesnt make him non-Serb. If this is not clear to you guys than do some research on his past and than you will see who is right and who is wrong(and what is true and whats not) rather than just making a vague decision's while being neutral. Very accurate article here on Wiki.
-Tesla was of wallach - serb heritage that's clear. He was born in Croatia, that's clear too. I think we should stick to his words: "i am proud of my heritage but i am also proud of my croatian homeland". That's the end of it guys. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.230.154.155 ( talk) 18:56, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
there should be an edit where it is saying hes a serbian inventor since most of the article contradicts the serbian part, since hes croatian:
Nikola Tesla (Serbian Cyrillic: Никола Тесла) (10 July 1856 – 7 January 1943) was a Serbian inventor, physicist, mechanical engineer, and electrical engineer. Born in Smiljan, Croatian Krajina, Military Frontier, he was an ethnic Serb subject of the Austrian Empire and later became an American citizen.
any 1 who knows how to change, plz do
(i meen if i die and it turns out some one in my fam. tree was spanish or somethin, and i made a famous invention, woulnt the spanish then try to claim me sayin im a spanish person too ?)
else claim tesla for africa, thats where human life is said to have originated from
—Preceding unsigned comment added by Mitsuruki ( talk • contribs) 19:47, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
First of all excuse me for my English! But: I don't understand why you consider Tesla as a Serbian inventor. Well, Tesla was born and bring up in Croatia and is famous his phrase "I'm proud of Serbian origins and of Croatian homeland", therefore it's clear that he considered Croatia as his homeland. At the contrary I ask you: who are the Americans? In your logic almost anybody is American because all are Englishmen, Italian, Frenchmen, Germans, Polishes, etc. The question of Austro-Hungarian Empire is also stupid in my opinion. First of all because the same Tesla said "I'm proud of [..] Croatian homeland" so it's stupid make undo over this. Secondary for example Dante Alighieri is considered on of the biggest Italian author of XIII century, but Italy as unique state is just from XIX century. Now an other example. Mike Bongiorno is one of the most famous Italian showman of television. He was born in New York but his parents was Italian and he feel to be Italian. He always says "My homeland is Italy, in particular Sicily". So if Tesla was proud of his homeland Croatia, why we must delete his will?! Jovan Dučić from Montenegro consider that "Tesla" is an Montenegrin-origin surname so we be able to consider Tesla as a Montenegrin Inventor. Well... with this logic can excavate and excavate in the past of Tesla's family and see how he is an African inventor. The Croatians were always victim of a barbaric serbianization! Lupo90100 —Preceding comment was added at 13:48, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
How can yo say that Tesla was Serbian by ethinicity if Tesla said that his homeland was Croatia?! (and I repeat that was Croatia and not Austrian Empire, Tesla's words). He was born and bring up in Croatia, in Croatian schools and at last but not least his mother was Croatian. Here we speak only about his father side but never about his mother side. As a mattar of fact his mother was a inventor with very good memory, abilities which Tesla inherited by the mom, as the same Tesla said many times. After the marriage with Tesla's father, she converted herself in orthodox, but the religion can't be synonym of his nationality. About Mike Bongiorno I want to say that he is Italian because he feel himself as Italian. At the contrary all the world would consider him American. For Tesla is the same with the difference that Tesla was also born in Croatia. So Tesla was born in Croatia and felt Croatia as his homeland. In addition his mother was Croatian. So many things versus the idea that he was a Serbian. Lupo90100 —Preceding comment was added at 19:24, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
Are you sure that both parents were Serbs?! In "Nikola Tesla, covjek koji je izumio 20. vijek" I think I read something about his Croatian mother. About Austrian Empire / Croatia is famouse Tesla's phrase "I'm proud of my Serbian origins and of my Croatian homeland". This is the exact phrase said by Tesla wich was also repeted at the commemoration of 150 years from Tesla's death organized by both country: Serbia and Croatia! (So already at the time Tesla was conscious of an idea of Croatia). An other his phrase was always "I'm prooud of my Croatian birth and Serbian people" because his mother was Croatian. I'm quite sure of this. When I'll have the opportunity to read again the book, I'll confimr or no this information. He told about "serbian people" because at the time the descendence was adopted by father-side. At the end you don't replace me about idea of "americans". For you who are the Americans? If we must see their parents and granparents almost nobody would be American, but Englishmen, Franchmen, Germans, Italians, etc. also for etnicity. For example the actress Gabriela Spanic is Venezuelan actress even if his father is Croatian. And this because she born in Venezuela. Dante Alighieri is Italian, even if at his time Italy didin't exist. So also Croatia. In Austrian Empire was a reality the concept of Croatia. At last Croatia enter in Austrian Empire because asked protection to the Austria from turkish invasion. At contary Mike Bongiorno who feel as his homeland Italy, is considered Italian, even if we be able to consider him American (as a mattar of fact exist many Americans that feel themeselves so but that have foreign parents).
Why Tesla after became USA-ian?! Why he can become USA-ian and not Croatian? Being he born and live in Croatia, he adopted Croatian culture. For me it's simple. I can't undestand why he become USA-ian and why he not become Croatian (for being born in it). For me Tesla was Croatian or jugoslavian and not only Serbian.
Sorry my English. Lupo90100 —Preceding comment was added at 21:35, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
it's a SHAME that a croat is to be listed in here as a serb. shamefull. he was a croat, born in croatia, in a part of the country called Lika, his mother was a native in a small village in Lika.
also, the term 'croatian krajina' never egzisted. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
195.29.140.115 (
talk)
15:20, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | → | Archive 5 |
Archive on Talk:Nikola Tesla/Nationality and ethnicity "Tesla" is the romanian word for a tool that carpenters use. If you search "tesla cu maner de lemn" = tesla with handle (made) of wood you'll se what i'm on about. Tesla has nothing to do with weaving. In Romania we learn about Nicolae Tesla in school.
Teslea is a romanian familly name naturally derived from tesator. Tesator (romanian)= tessatore (italian)= tisserand (french)= weaver (english)
Someone who makes the textile (english), tesut (romanian), tissu (french).
Or someone who produces manufactured goods like clothes and similar using his hands, a Weaveler somehow.
This word would then take a more famillar form like in other latin languages :
In French language : four -> four + ie -> four(n)ier -> fournier We add "ie".
We do create names the same way in Romanian language : Tes (ator)-> Tes + ea -> Tes(l)ea -> Teslea We add "ea" sometimes pronounced "ia" in some dialects.
If French people had an equivalent name it would be : tisse (rand)-> tisse + ie -> tisse(l)ier -> tisselier
If Nicola would have been french his name would have been Tisselier.
The americans would still call him Teasler because in english is easy spell.
In english : weaver -> weave(l)er
I know I am coming to this discussion late, and see it is quite heated. Anyway to add an bit of pepper to the spicy argument. According to the following link (translated from Romanian), Nicholas Tesla had ethnic Istro-Romanian descent, possibly in addition to Serb ethnicity, as stated here:
It is considered as an immigrant American biographies Serbian. In reality he was Istro-Romanian, born the night of 9 to 10 July 1856 as the son of Milutin Tesla Orthodox priest and the Gica Măndici. Family father was anti-Ottoman border guards in the former Austro-Hungarian Empire. Originally the family was Draghici, but he was replaced in time by the nickname of Tesla, after the craft passed within the family, the carpenter (teslari). http://translate.google.com/translate?prev=hp&hl=en&js=y&u=http://ro.altermedia.info/stiintatehnologie/nicolae-tesla-sau-un-roman-venit-din-alt-spaiu-i_3263.html&sl=ro&tl=en&history_state0= —Preceding unsigned comment added by Chrisc62 ( talk • contribs) 14:30, 14 September 2009 (UTC)
Why not listen to what Tesla says/wants to be himself, and end all nationalist fights there?
He said this on 1 June 1892 in Belgrade:
And after that day he said to the students of the Belgrade Big School, just before he went to meet with King of Serbia Aleksandar Obrenović:
Tesla in the west kept always with him The Mountain Wreath of Petar II Petrović-Njegoš, and the numerous songs of Vojislav Ilić, Jovan Jovanović Zmaj and Đura Jakšić. In May of 1894 in the Century Magazine he wrote an article about Zmaj, about the suffers of Tesla's people on Kosovo and the tragedies faced ever since the Battle of Amsfeld and ends with "from that fatal battle all the way to the most recent time, for the Serbs there is a dark darkness, with only one star in the sky - Montenegro".
So just leave it to there, lol. -- PaxEquilibrium 09:50, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
==The irony will not be lost on this reader that croats are fighting for one serb born in Krajina to be considered a croatian citizen.There is still hope then for return for the 300'000 "croats" born in Krajina to come back one day to their "homeland"...
Ethnicity is one thing, religious affiliation (or certificate of baptism) is another==
What many people from former Yugoslavia can’t see is that an ethnicity or race of a person cannot be determined solely on religion. I’ve always thought that the denominations “ Croat”, “ Serb” and “ Bosniak” are just tools to (try to) justify what happened during the Yugoslav Wars of the 1990s. As a secularist, believe much more in Croatians, Serbians and Bosnians that speak the same Serbo-Croatian language than anything else. The rest it’s just ignorance, obscurantism, religious intolerance and propaganda at the service of corrupt politicians.
Telsa died many decades before all these tragedies happened in the poor and sad Balkans. And by the time of his birth he was born outside Serbia, and was an Austrian citizen from Dalmatia who was baptized Orthodox but wasn’t religious nor Serbian nationalist. And the concepts of Serbo-Croatian, Serbian or Croatian languages were still being developed during the 19th century — the official language of Austrian Empire was German.
So, to call Tesla and “ethnic Serb” sounds very bad to the ear. It should be better to define Tesla as an Austrian- Croatian, Yugoslav or simply Serbo-Croatian, I.M.H.O..-- MaGioZal 19:34, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
MaGioZal, please read through the loads of previous discussion on this issue on the talk page. You've came here and unilaterally started making edits against the previous established consensus. Take some time to review the previous discussions and consensus instead of just edit warring to "your" version. // laughing man 20:24, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
Is this guy for real? :) -- Methodius 22:22, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
Exactly like it, actually and for all the same reasons, which boil down to wishful thinking by nationalist/ethnicist/religious zealots. Incidentally, there are no ‘races’ at all, much less “Germanics” and “Slavs”. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.195.192.175 ( talk) 13:39, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
It would be easier if you would just put serbo-croatian scientist.But no,wikipedia needs to complicate things.Why don't you put also austrian scientist.One more thing i would shut down croatian and bosnian wikipedia because they said that he was born in Croatia.Oh my god how could they do such a thing,maybe because he really was born in Croatia and that is the fact.That doesn't make him a serb because Croatia is not Serbia.Just put serbo-croatian scientist because that is the most correct.
Gentlemen, Kingdom of Croatia was a Constituent land of Austrian Empire with it's own parliament and Croatian language being one of the official languages of the empire. Tesla was born in, what was then called, Croatian Military Frontier. As for his nationality, he himself wrote in 1930ies that he is "equally proud of his Serbian descent and Croatian homeland" trying to bring Serbs and Croatians closer together, so it would be more precise to call him Serbo-Croatian inventor and close the debate... Especially since he would probably be appalled by use of his name in this display of nationalism which victimized people of Balkans trough history... Slaven0 ( talk) 12:09, 29 September 2013 (UTC)
(mv'ing this here ... J. D. Redding 04:24, 27 May 2007 (UTC))
When it comes about Tesla’s nationality everyone says things that are not true. Nobody knows the truth or accept the truth. They say he is either Serbian or Croatian but in fact he is an Istro-Romanian!
His original last name was Draghici, but over the years this name got replaced by his nickname “Tesla” (tesla – Romanian therm for adze ) because Nikola’s family were carpeters.
Henry Coandă has presented him as a „bănăţean” from Serbian Banat but he was a Istro-Romanian. Current revision - Scipione01 17:38, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
What can't you understand,he never said that he is a serb,he said:"ponosan sam svojim srpskim rodom i svojom hrvatskom domovinom".Why is it hard for all of you to understand this.He said that his motherland is Croatia,he had only Serb ancestry because of his roots.His grandmother was a croat,he has never been in Serbia, and Lika the Teslas birthplace was always a Croatian teritory.
It is refreshing to see that at least one serb is welcome in Croatia. True, it is a dead one, but still good news.
At the very least we should mention he was born in croatia upfront. It's ridiculous not to mention his place of birth at the very begining of his bio. Even if you're a stark raving serb nationalist, you have to acknowledge that he was *physically* born in croatia. If you later want to go on and say he was the archetypical Serb, go on by all means, but do *mention* where he was born. Frankman 19:10, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
Frankman 14:49, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
In this article, this is not mentioned at all, so the backgrounds of Nikola Tesla was not presented in an objective way. Moreoever, in the the new, updated information about the new memorial center and the museum built recently in his birthplace in Smiljan, is mising the fact that it is located in Croatia. In fact, in the whole article it seems to be tendency not to use word Croatia, although he was born, raised and finished high school there. The essential, important influence on him was made by his professor of mathematic and phisics in high school near Karlovac, Croatia. After he moved away, he visit Croatia several times and he was pronounced as honorary doctor at the University of Zagreb in Croatia. Nikola Tesla once stated that he is proud of his Serbian origin and of his country of Croatia. This quote should definitely exist in his biography, because it says a lot about him.
Consensus is not important because where you are afraid to write that he is born in today Croatia you are writing POV article. To answer why I will give examples how are written other articles:
You will not believe but custom on wiki is to write where is today people place of birth if they have been born in states or territory which today do not exist. To show how are users of this article against Croatia example is that nowhere is writen that Nikola Tesla is born in Croatian krajina but you write Military to evade Croatia question ?? This is very, very sad. Imagine what revert war will start when we from Croatia start to add place of birth Croatia and when user from Serbia deleted that !! Rjecina 5:03, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
For great "neutral" historians 1 other info. In XVI c. because of turkish attacks Croatia has been divided in military and civilian Croatia. Military Croatia has been Croatian and Slavonian krajina (you will say military frontier) and civilian Croatia has been Kingdom of Croatia. Rjecina 08:30, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
Maybe that was Serbia where Tesla was born? You would probably liked that, but even if the place was few miles south or wherever from the border of Croatia, do you really think that more important are your words that words of him who said: I AM PROUD OF MY COUNTRY CROATIA. I guess this is really difficult to her to you. I am just wandering are you aware of your animosity (to say it soft) towards Croatia - you are counting miles just not to accept what is hurting you. And I am just wandering, what would you say if they put that somebody born at that time was born in the Kingdom of Croatia and Slavonia, and that he was born in Zemun. For somebody who supports radicals and seselj, what you probably do, it could be as somebody hits you, although it's true.
You can say what you want but this are words of BBC:
"The scientist once famously stated that he was equally proud of his Serb origin and Croatian homeland. " [1]
I am sure that somebody very, very wise after long thinking will say that this is POV of BBC, like 1 other user from Serbia (PANONIAN) that UN has been POV in resolutions against Serbia during Yugoslav wars. This has Tesla been saying and this will be writen. We will have 1 very nice revert war is you do not want to accept Tesla words :)) --- Rjecina 9:52, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
I have no problem with the quote, assuming that the citation is valid, but it does not belong in the lead section, which is already too long. According to the Manual of Style, the lead should not be longer than 4 paragraphs. I'd also suggest that the addition of quotes to the lead is not within the spirit of the style guidelines for the lead. GlassFET 16:03, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
Again we need to believe you and not BBC. You want that we believe person which write that Tesla is not born in Croatian Krajina or which is deleting that Tesla is born in place which is today Croatia. "Your" article is having 1 very great mistake. In article is writen that "Tesla is honoured in both Croatia and Serbia". Reading article we know why is honoured in Serbia but we do not know why in Croatia. What is connection between Tesla and Croatia. Article is POV and your reverts are POV. Try to make somebody else afraid with tendentious editing. If something about that happen in worst scenario for me we will both be blocked. --- Rjecina 18:23, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
Lets are be clear I am always right :))
(Deputy Secretary General of the Council of Europe)
My finding of this sites has been really ease and fast using Google.
There is no way that somebody can defeat all this sites and original sources of Nikola Tesla words including telegraph message and book My Inventions from 1919. I will give you until 40 hours to come in agreement with sources. Then I will return Tesla words in article. If there will be problems wiki administrators will need to enter game and say who is right I or you all. --- Rjecina 20:38, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
To stop this story about telegram I think it will be best to show link for telegram site. This is only photto of telegram because original is in Belgrade Museum of Nikola Tesla. I hope that now this problem will in the end be solved. http://www.teslasociety.com/teslavillage.htm I am really interested if there will be any more question about that. In my personal thinking and thinking of Tesla historians he has been strong supporter of Yugoslavia so end of telegram is in his style. 1 other stuff about nobody speak in this article when Tesla has come to USA he has identified himself as being born in Croatia. It is real important to say he has not spoken in Immigration office about Military Frontier, Austria or Serbia but about Croatia. Will this problem be now solved ? --- Rjecina 01:00, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
Đorđe ti si glup ko kurac,ti uopce ne bi smio uređivati nista o tesli zato što si srbin i svaki dokaz koji govori da je tesla hrvat ti ces reci da nije zato jer si srbin i neznam ko ti daje pravo da sereš jer nemas pojma nista o hrvatskoj.Hrvatska je u to vrijeme postojala samo sto ti to negiras zato da ne bi ispalo ni slucajno da je tesla imalo hrvat jel to bi unistilo valjda jedinog veceg znanstvenika kojeg "imate".Uostalom ti tolko volis svoju domovinu i ponosan si na nju i njezinu povijest da si napisao da se zoves george.Majmun si i sram te moze biti.Vazno da seres o hrvatskoj,a ne postujes ni srbiju.GLUPANE,NEMOJ SRAT VISE.
Oprosti mi molim te,nisam ja kriv što si ti tako pametan.Po tvojim razmišljanjima Tesla je bio Austrijanac.Sigurno su ljudi rođeni u vojnoj krajini nazivani Austrijancima ili vojno krajinašima.Pošto je moj deda bio Srbin,i što imam nešto Srbske krvi da li to mene čini Srbinom.Naravno da me ne čini,imam Hrvatsko državljanstvo,a ne Srbsko.Rođen sam u Hrvatskoj,a ne u Srbiji.Pošto ti navodiš da je Tesla bio rođen u nečem što je danas Hrvatska,onda su svi koje znam Jugoslaveni,a ne Hrvati,Srbi,Slovenci,......i ostalih nacionalnosti.Onda u svim dokumentima treba pisati da su ljudi rođeni u Jugoslaviji,Jugoslaveni i sad bi trebali imati Jugoslavensko državljanstvo. http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=466276,gledaj spomen ploču,slika 15 po redu.
I have not known that in XIX century has been more of 2 parts :)) Why Croatian krajina and not Military Frontier ? Answer is simple: Article will have peace without nationalistic revert wars. Second reason with which maybe you will not agree that in the end this (something like this) has been wish of Tesla if we look what he is saying in 1884 (immigration office in USA) and in 1936 (telegram false or not it has been from his lifetime so he has opportunity to say that it is false) -- Rjecina 17:44, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
Lets look for consensus so that article start with "Born in Smiljan, Croatian Krajina, he was an ethnic Serb". Reasons for starting article in this way are:
In the end revert wars are not important but only important are Tesla words.
I will wait for 7 days that somebody give arguments which will defeat this 4 for writing Croatian Krajina. If nobody can defeat them I will change article begining in Croatian Krajina. -- Rjecina 21:14, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
Uh!
"Croatian Frontier" and "Banat Frontier" are all just stupid unofficial names for a part of the Military Frontier that, as such, never really existed.
If you want to go more in precise of the Military Frontier, say Karlovac Generalate and then Smiljan, Gospic.
Perhaps you should write that the birthplace of people in south Italy is "Megale Hellas" or people born in Kosovo, Macedonia and Sanjak with "Old Serbia" their birthplace. Of course not.
I live in Croatia and I demand that it be put that he was born in present-day Croatia. But born in Hrvatska Krajina - thats not even nationalistic, thats just false. -- 195.29.129.126 12:51, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
"As a son of my homeland I feel it is my duty to help the city of Zagreb in every respect with my advice and work (Smatram svojom duznoscu da kao rodjeni sin svoje zemlje pomognem gradu Zagrebu u svakom pogledu savjetom i cinom)" Nikola Tesla 24 May 1892
Croatian Krajina: never exsisted. This isn't a neutral listing and goes against Wikipedia ethics. In its current form, it is massively Serb-biased. Simple. The listing should say Smiljan, Lika, Croatia which was then part of the Austo-Hungarian Empire. Why are the pure facts not stated here? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tooma2 ( talk • contribs) 03:14, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
Article is POV because editors do not allow that Tesla words about his nationality and homeland be written in begining of article. First explanation for refusal has been that there is not evidence for that statement. When evidence has been found new reason has become that this is not for begining of article. Finding new reasons for refusal of statement is evidence of POV thinking. Rjecina 17:38, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
Regardless of that quote, Smiljan is obviously in Croatia now. It's ridiculous that this fact is never mentioned in the intro nor in the infobox. Zocky | picture popups 22:22, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
There are many true and untrue things here. Fact # 1 - Croatia did exist at that time. Croatia was in union under Habsburg crown, but it was not just some abstract area, it was in fact kingdom that elected Ferdinand I as a king (1527). Fact # 2 - it is true that when Tesla was born, Smiljan was under Military Frontier (Vojna Krajina), which was a temporary zone along the border with Ottoman Empire and administered directly by the military authorities of Habsburg Monarchy, not by Croatian Sabor and Ban. It returned under the civil administration of Croatia in 1881. Fact # 3 - It would be absolutely correct thing to say that Tesla was born in Croatia and that he was ethnic Serb and that he accepted both identities.(Even if the area was under military administration, it was still Croatia. So, what, Lastovo was not Croatia or Boka was not Montenegro or Batajnica was not Serbia because it was administered by JNA???) That would be the only correct thing to say. But, I guess this place is a pissing match between Serbs and Croats (for example, I am Croatian, but ethnic Slovenian. And I have no problem with this dual identity, and I think that people should accept Tesla's) Potjernik
I have given until now 3 options of article beginnings but you have all until now refused. this options have been:
I do not have time now to play (start great revert war) about this article, but when I start end text will be:
Simple speaking who is playing with sword .... Rjecina 14:35, 10 august 2007 (UTC)
In these discussions, I've seen comments of blood, like Serbian blood. Do you people really think there is something like 'blood'? Or that the 'blood' of a Serb differs from the 'blood' of a Russian or an Englishman? Let's put it like this! You are an Englishman. You have a terrible car accident somewhere in Bosnia, year is 1983 A.D. Let's say you have all the gear and devices to transfer blood. There are other English people there with you, and some German people. They check each others blood types and realise none of them can give you blood. None of them is type O, and you have a B- blood type. You are dying and in desperate need of help. Your English and German buddies drive you 2 miles east of the place of your accident and you enter a village, or better said a small town full of people. Three friends, Josip, Osman and Nemanja, sitting at the Cafe bar look at you all, and see that your friends are carrying you, all covered in blood. They start shouting 'Do you need help?', and your friends say that they need blood immediately and if some of them is healthy and has B- blood type or O- blood type, can he give blood? They are all healthy, but Josip is A+, Osman is A+ as well and Nemanja is O-. Nemanja, a young Serb gives blood to you. You get better and survive. This is not a joke nor it is a coincidence. It is the Serbian blood, the great Serbian blood that saved you. And now, you have become a Serb, or at least a bit Serb, because you are carrying Serbian blood. You may say goodbye to Englishdom, because Serbdom is your life now. You should be proud, because the blood of Serbs is what Tesla also had. It was the blood, not just any blood but the Serb blood. Tesla had Serbian blood. A man of his scientifical range would be worthless without being a Serb. People don't fool yourselves. Ideas aren't important. It's the blood that's important, all that matters. Customs and agenda are also useless. It's the blood that defines us. Our familiy lines, and our antcestors have existed since the forming of our nations. I myself a Croat haven't got any antcestors before the 7th century. God created my first antcestor then (in 698. A.D.) and God said:"You will forever be Croat. I am giving you Croat blood, for Croatdom to exist from now on to eternity! Long live Croats, may the Croat blood give them glory!" People, don't try to trick me because i won't believe you. You cannot convince me that I had some antcestors in 2357. B.C. That is impossible. But maybe, just maybe i had. But then they were Croats even then and that proves that Croats are in fact 3000 years older than it was until now believed. Blood, yes!
Retrieved from " http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Nikola_Tesla/Archive_10"
Tesla must have been a geneticaly determined Serb. We shouldn't care about ideas. Just the genetics that matters. His ascedent antcestor that lived 4 million years ago was a monkey looking Serb. Or a Serb looking monkey? But the point is Serbdom and it's genes.
You disagree with me Džordže? About the 'Serb blood'. It's mentioned in the discussion at least two times. Such comments of Serbian blood, or English blood are nowadays primitive wouldn't you say? Tesla was a Serb, but his work is 0.000000000000000001% related to the Serbian state. How long was Tesla in Serbia again? Tesla should be part of Wikiproject Austria. Wasn't Austria where he was born and grew up? And Wikiproject United States.
In all others wikipedia in begining of article is writen text that he is of Serb origin and born in Smiljan (today Croatia). Few users (2 or 3)of english wiki are reverting all users which write that Nikola Tesla is born in today Croatia. Rjecina 17:14, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
After first non truth about consensus now there is another. On this discussion page users George D. Božović, Potjernik, Zocky, Frankman and I have supported writing that he is born in today Croatia. Against are users Simões, Overhere and you ?? This is 5 : 3 for writing that he is born in today Croatia. I will tell truth that I have not looked text under number 3 and 4 because his nationality is without question Serbian. Now you can please explain from where there are your numbers 2 for writing today Croatia and 6 against ?? Rjecina 20:20, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
Who will say which arguments are stronger ? You. I only know that your english wiki version is against all others wiki and this argument need to be stronger of any other if this is wikipedia. After saying that I still do not understand why is my version historically inaccurate if only change is that his birth place is now in Croatia ? I will be happy to her reasons for that Rjecina 21:38, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
Just coming lured by the RfC. A few remarks.
I just want to ask a question,where were Teslas parents born?I don't mean in what country but in what city,because now Serbia will probably fall apart on only Beograd and local surroundings.I mean because Kosovo will now be an independent country like Crna Gora,so if Tesla's parents were born in any of this future countrys then you won't be able to say that he is a Serbian, but you wil need to say that his roots are from one of these countrys. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 89.172.51.123 ( talk)
So Tesla and his parents were born in Vojna Krajina.How can you say then that he was a Serb?His only connection with Serbia could be his religion.But you have to take in observation that many people were then Pravoslavci and religion shouldn't take role in figuring out nationality. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 89.172.41.78 ( talk) 11:18, August 23, 2007 (UTC)
But he has to have a connection with Serbia what Tesla didn't have.He can't be an ethnic Serb from nowhere.Please explain your words.
Also when did Tesla declare that he is a Serb.
I understand this now but the problem is that Tesla was born in what is today Croatia and it should also say that he is a Croatian scientist because he went to school here,also when someone said that Tesla said that he was equally proud of his Serbian stock and Croatian homeland someone said that this was made up so I can also say that Tesla din't declare as a Serbian and that this was made up.Here is a link http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=466276,gledaj ,look at the 15th picture.Also I see from your words that you accept Crna Gora,Vojvodina & Kosovo as their own nation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.1.112.252 ( talk) 21:05, August 25, 2007 (UTC)
According to your logic,you should go tell all croats born in Bosnia that they are bosnians. Good luck with that (write your will before you do that)
Nikola Tesla's a CROAT. It doesnt matter his Serb origin - he didnt even spend A DAY in Serbia. The current article is proChetnik because it writes that he's Serb. STOP COUNTING BLODCELS!!! —The preceding
unsigned comment was added by
UstashkiDom (
talk •
contribs) 19:25, August 23, 2007 (UTC).
"I'm equally proud of my Serbian origin and my Croatian homeland."
some idiot removed the reference which was clearly written in a pre-WWII telegram. can someone explain this? -- 83.131.18.67 11:39, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
The intro calls his homeland Croatian Krajina when back then it was Serbian Krajina, and if Croatians felt that everyone who lived in Croatia then why did they expel 250,000 Serbians in 1995? Do you think Nikola Tesla a Serb by blood and religon would have been so proud then? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.194.187.81 ( talk) 17:02, August 28, 2007 (UTC)
Dear god why do idiots like you exist. First of all it is proven with documentation that those Serbs were ordered to leave by the Serbian generals in the area. Croats did not expel them. Second, what does that have to do with Tesla being born in Croatia or not. How delusional are you?
Why is this article WikiProject Serbia.This article doesn't talk about Serbia and this should be changed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.172.33.29 ( talk) 13:23, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
Here we go again,you can't say that he was a 100 precent Serb.He was not only a Serbian scientist and I have seen many artciles about scientists and it doesn't say this is a part of wikiproject some-country. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.1.116.200 ( talk) 15:08, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
I came to this article from the "Lamest Edit Wars" page to check about this particular question. It's worse than I thought. Would you find the sentence "He was an ethnic Serb subject of the blablabla" in Britannica? I doubt it, and honestly I don't care about that. Ethnicity is a dubious concept, not backed by much science, it would be much better to mostly leave it out of an encyclopedia except where really necessary or relevant. Isn't there a better way to put it without invoking "ethnicity"? 213.114.83.242 11:44, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
I know nothing about the Serbian/Croatian debate, and I'm completely neutral on the subject, coming from the Request for Comment. It seems clear to me that a compromise is in order, mentioning that Tesla was born in what was then known as ________ and is now Croatia, and that he was ethnically Serbian.-- Gloriamarie 22:44, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
He was a Serb and a scientist. But not a Serbian scientist (in a sense that he belonged to Serbian science), simply because his scientific work and education had nothing to do with Serbia. But the article states that he was a Serbian, twice. First reference is "Serbian inventor, physicist, mechanical engineer, and electrical engineer" and later it's again written that he was a Serb. One of those statements should certainly be removed as it's abundant information. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.164.33.220 ( talk) 23:06, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
It appears that Serb and Croat nationalists have decided to make this talk page a battleground for their squabbling over Tesla's ethnicity. The talk page for the 0.999... article has a special page where arguments against the proofs given in the article are placed (to avoid cluttering up the main talk page with unproductive comments). Would anyone object to the same being done here for the serb/croat stuff? Simões ( talk/ contribs) 14:03, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
Update: It's funny how fast another ethnicity argument started. The subtalkpage is born, and things are already a lot quieter. Good day! Simões ( talk/ contribs) 15:08, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
It's all so silly. Croats and Serbs should just be proud that he's from the Balkans and then consider the fact that he wouldn't give a rat's a** about them since one of his proudest moments was becoming an American. haha Maîtresse 07:46, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
Tesla was a Serb, born in Croatia. The article is not objective, and I think objectivity is important. One harmless example of that is presenting banknote of Serbia with his image and not presenting the croatian one. Apparently this wiki page is edited by serbian wiki page, and that's why it's not objective. I suggest that the page should be edited by another wiki project. That's how we will stop counting Tesla's blood cells and manipulating with the history. Give Tesla in the hands of neutral party. Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.164.35.251 ( talk) 12:04, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
- Tesla was a Serb and only because some other politicians from some other country where he was born are trying to associate Tesla's name to their country doesnt make him non-Serb. If this is not clear to you guys than do some research on his past and than you will see who is right and who is wrong(and what is true and whats not) rather than just making a vague decision's while being neutral. Very accurate article here on Wiki.
-Tesla was of wallach - serb heritage that's clear. He was born in Croatia, that's clear too. I think we should stick to his words: "i am proud of my heritage but i am also proud of my croatian homeland". That's the end of it guys. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.230.154.155 ( talk) 18:56, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
there should be an edit where it is saying hes a serbian inventor since most of the article contradicts the serbian part, since hes croatian:
Nikola Tesla (Serbian Cyrillic: Никола Тесла) (10 July 1856 – 7 January 1943) was a Serbian inventor, physicist, mechanical engineer, and electrical engineer. Born in Smiljan, Croatian Krajina, Military Frontier, he was an ethnic Serb subject of the Austrian Empire and later became an American citizen.
any 1 who knows how to change, plz do
(i meen if i die and it turns out some one in my fam. tree was spanish or somethin, and i made a famous invention, woulnt the spanish then try to claim me sayin im a spanish person too ?)
else claim tesla for africa, thats where human life is said to have originated from
—Preceding unsigned comment added by Mitsuruki ( talk • contribs) 19:47, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
First of all excuse me for my English! But: I don't understand why you consider Tesla as a Serbian inventor. Well, Tesla was born and bring up in Croatia and is famous his phrase "I'm proud of Serbian origins and of Croatian homeland", therefore it's clear that he considered Croatia as his homeland. At the contrary I ask you: who are the Americans? In your logic almost anybody is American because all are Englishmen, Italian, Frenchmen, Germans, Polishes, etc. The question of Austro-Hungarian Empire is also stupid in my opinion. First of all because the same Tesla said "I'm proud of [..] Croatian homeland" so it's stupid make undo over this. Secondary for example Dante Alighieri is considered on of the biggest Italian author of XIII century, but Italy as unique state is just from XIX century. Now an other example. Mike Bongiorno is one of the most famous Italian showman of television. He was born in New York but his parents was Italian and he feel to be Italian. He always says "My homeland is Italy, in particular Sicily". So if Tesla was proud of his homeland Croatia, why we must delete his will?! Jovan Dučić from Montenegro consider that "Tesla" is an Montenegrin-origin surname so we be able to consider Tesla as a Montenegrin Inventor. Well... with this logic can excavate and excavate in the past of Tesla's family and see how he is an African inventor. The Croatians were always victim of a barbaric serbianization! Lupo90100 —Preceding comment was added at 13:48, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
How can yo say that Tesla was Serbian by ethinicity if Tesla said that his homeland was Croatia?! (and I repeat that was Croatia and not Austrian Empire, Tesla's words). He was born and bring up in Croatia, in Croatian schools and at last but not least his mother was Croatian. Here we speak only about his father side but never about his mother side. As a mattar of fact his mother was a inventor with very good memory, abilities which Tesla inherited by the mom, as the same Tesla said many times. After the marriage with Tesla's father, she converted herself in orthodox, but the religion can't be synonym of his nationality. About Mike Bongiorno I want to say that he is Italian because he feel himself as Italian. At the contrary all the world would consider him American. For Tesla is the same with the difference that Tesla was also born in Croatia. So Tesla was born in Croatia and felt Croatia as his homeland. In addition his mother was Croatian. So many things versus the idea that he was a Serbian. Lupo90100 —Preceding comment was added at 19:24, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
Are you sure that both parents were Serbs?! In "Nikola Tesla, covjek koji je izumio 20. vijek" I think I read something about his Croatian mother. About Austrian Empire / Croatia is famouse Tesla's phrase "I'm proud of my Serbian origins and of my Croatian homeland". This is the exact phrase said by Tesla wich was also repeted at the commemoration of 150 years from Tesla's death organized by both country: Serbia and Croatia! (So already at the time Tesla was conscious of an idea of Croatia). An other his phrase was always "I'm prooud of my Croatian birth and Serbian people" because his mother was Croatian. I'm quite sure of this. When I'll have the opportunity to read again the book, I'll confimr or no this information. He told about "serbian people" because at the time the descendence was adopted by father-side. At the end you don't replace me about idea of "americans". For you who are the Americans? If we must see their parents and granparents almost nobody would be American, but Englishmen, Franchmen, Germans, Italians, etc. also for etnicity. For example the actress Gabriela Spanic is Venezuelan actress even if his father is Croatian. And this because she born in Venezuela. Dante Alighieri is Italian, even if at his time Italy didin't exist. So also Croatia. In Austrian Empire was a reality the concept of Croatia. At last Croatia enter in Austrian Empire because asked protection to the Austria from turkish invasion. At contary Mike Bongiorno who feel as his homeland Italy, is considered Italian, even if we be able to consider him American (as a mattar of fact exist many Americans that feel themeselves so but that have foreign parents).
Why Tesla after became USA-ian?! Why he can become USA-ian and not Croatian? Being he born and live in Croatia, he adopted Croatian culture. For me it's simple. I can't undestand why he become USA-ian and why he not become Croatian (for being born in it). For me Tesla was Croatian or jugoslavian and not only Serbian.
Sorry my English. Lupo90100 —Preceding comment was added at 21:35, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
it's a SHAME that a croat is to be listed in here as a serb. shamefull. he was a croat, born in croatia, in a part of the country called Lika, his mother was a native in a small village in Lika.
also, the term 'croatian krajina' never egzisted. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
195.29.140.115 (
talk)
15:20, 18 February 2008 (UTC)