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He's actually on the standby list for the World Cup due to the injuries the Dutch team sustained recently. He may actually be on the roster, so I don't know why it says that he missed the 2006 World Cup before its actually even started.
Nigel de Jong is a disgrace and should have been awarded a red card for the world cup final along with a life time ban. His showed this true colours in the final and the national team must distance itself from him or take accept responsibility as the disgraceful drity team. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 170.170.59.135 ( talk) 14:56, 12 July 2010 (UTC)
Everythime when I see him with his new look it makes me think that he is partially of surinamese-chinese descent,just like Calvin Jong-a-Pin and Cerezo Fung a Wing. Karim Abdul Rashid ( talk) 15:39, 28 February 2009 (UTC)Karim Abdul Rashid Karim Abdul Rashid ( talk) 15:39, 28 February 2009 (UTC)
{{
editsemiprotected}}
In the 2010 FIFA World Cup Final de Jong was issued a yellow card for a challenge on Xabi Alonso for what ESPN commentator Efan Okoku called a "kung-fu style kick." De Jong himself stated that he was surprised to not have received a direct red for the challenge. Berg1115 ( talk) 18:59, 12 July 2010 (UTC)
The article makes the claim that he was brought into the Ajax first team as a regular, then later on found himself relegated to the bench. But the statistics don't bear that out. His first two seasons in the first team, he made 32 and 31 appearances respectively. His final half-season, he made sixteen appearances. Until I just edited it to tone down its florid language, the Manchester City section of the bio was at pains to point out that sixteen is a really impressive number of league appearances for half a season. Binabik80 ( talk) 21:56, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
Wikipedia is a source for relevant information on footballers. Part of that includes their background, ie if they grew up in wealth, poverty, hardship etc and other aspects of their life which may reflect their footballing character. People have been removing this information from de jong's profile without justification. This includes the cited information of how he was abandoned by his footballing father and grew up in council housing on government benefits, and how he now owns a global car dealership. This is directly relevant to a wiki bio. Deleting this info without justification is vandalism —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.188.240.229 ( talk) 05:57, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
Actually, you (Craddocktm) are the person pushing a POV here, throwing around adjectives such as "reckless" without any justification and addressing this latest controversy from a completely superficial, half-assed standpoint so that it reflects much worse on de Jong than it should do. Whether that was intentionally done or not does not really matter. I agree that the article should be about Nigel de Jong not Van Marwijk, however this whole brouhaha was created by the latter's words and actions and he is very much responsible for the current effects on de Jong's reputation (which is the topic that is being addressed here). Therefore those words and actions have to be placed in their proper context. If you are unable to present all the relevant facts and present them in their proper context so that the neutral reader gets a fair impression of what actually occurred then you should refrain from addressing this issue at all.
The facts of the matter are that this tackle was deemed a fair challenge by one of the PL's top referees at the time it occurred and it was not particularly upsetting to either the Newcastle bench or the Newcastle fans either - after the game the Toon fans were much more upset about Newcastle not being awarded a penalty for Lescott's mistimed tackle later in the game, and possibly even the penalty award for the foul on Tevez, than they were about the outcome of de Jong's challenge (which was put down to one of those unfortunate things that sometimes happen in a game). No particularly adverse comments were made about the tackle in the live TV match commentary and post-match analysis either - other than, of course, the obligatory mention that it is sad to see a player be carried off the pitch in that fashion - and in the match highlights that were later broadcast the incident was not even deemed worthy of being included. IOW, there was no controversial incident in that match until Van Marwijk started his attack on de Jong in the media ... after which, everyone with an agenda against either de Jong or Manchester City or both has since jumped on the bandwagon and it has now become open season on de Jong. To completely remove Van Marwijk and his motivations from the equation is to make nonsense of this whole incident.
My edit attempted to inject some of the above cold facts into the article in order to provide the neutral reader with a more balanced overall viewpoint in this controversy. I'm not claiming that my version is perfect and that I have successfully achieved the ideal balance nor that what I added cannot be further improved upon by others, but what I wrote was most certainly an order of magnitude better than the previous coverage of this incident (to which you have now reverted) which, because of its lack of thoroughness, comes across as being quite biased. Just because Van Marwijk and Kevin Poll claim it was a bad tackle does not make it so ... Martin Atkinson, his linesman, the fourth official and the F.A. all say it wasn't and none of those officials have a political agenda to push like Van Marwijk does, nor are they a national embarrassment and tabloid hack like Poll whose standard highly opinionated output borders on being "yellow journalism". To cite articles that present Poll's and Van Marwijk's POV without presenting the true context behind what they are saying is very much a case of presenting an overall distorted POV, as is failing to provide any reference to the more considered and better informed contrary opinions that support de Jong in this highly hyperbolic controversy. I also don't believe you should be citing media pages written by tabloid rag hacks such as Kevin Poll in a Wikipedia article ... they clearly fall into the category of "editorial opinion" and thus lack the objectivity necessary to meet the criterion of being a "reliable source" (RS).
My motivation for editing this area of the article was to add material that counterbalanced the overall biased POV that was presented to the reader by what you (Craddocktm) had written. It certainly wasn't intended to be a case of "unsourced POV pushing". Maybe this is a case of "two wrongs don't make a right". Perhaps what I should have done is simply remove your own incorrect "POV pushing" (backed with selectively chosen non-RS citations) rather than counter it with more of the same. Which is what I am now going to do. If this topic cannot be addressed objectively and fairly (WRT to Nigel de Jong's reputation) then it is much better that it not be addressed at all. Please DO NOT revert my changes a second time back to what you had previously written ... because that would be a case of your pushing your own POV yet a third time.
BTW, I don't necessarily condone de Jong's past tackles against Stuart Holden and Xabi Alonso (even de Jong admits that he should probably have been red carded for that one), but those tackles are not the issue here, although de Jong's reputation as a result of those previous poor tackles is very much the issue in this controversy. Any discussion of de Jong's tackle on Ben Arfa that automatically assumes it was a bad tackle based solely on his prior reputation, rather than on what he actually did, is by its very nature a biased perspective and I will revert it. Similarly, I will also remove any discussion of Van Marwijk's action in dropping de Jong from the Dutch squad that does not also address his true motivations for taking that action because that also presents a distorted POV. If Van Marwijk was at all serious about clamping down on reckless or dirty play then the first person that he needs to drop from the national team is his own son-in-law Van Bommel ... who has received nearly two dozen yellow cards in the last couple of seasons alone.
Mancini's Lasagne invite to Harry Talk
19:17, 8 October 2010 (UTC)
From my observations, if anyone's pushing POV here, its Craddocktm. For you to come on here and and question neutrality, considering you've edited the page god knows how many times just because of de Jong's tackle is a bit naughty, to me it hints that you have a "point of view" opinion that you want on this page (I've already changed "Discipline" to "Reputation" and this opinion from you "moving leg breaking to new section: discipline. at least he didnt break alonso's leg." shows you want this page to be skewed in a certain way). The tackle is much ado about nothing if you ask me. The media have jumped on it, and being the media, they have made a story out of an unfortunate footballing injury, end of. To conclude, I'm not comfortable (nor happy) debating the neutrality of the page with a user who, from my observations, has a opinion skewed against de Jong. I look forward to hearing your explanation. Stevo1000 ( talk) 16:34, 9 October 2010 (UTC)
oh lord. the worst aspects of wikipedia in a series of verbose, anal rants. the keyboard you used for this could have been put to some better use - shame. 129.11.77.198 ( talk) 18:30, 9 October 2010 (UTC)
I give up. No one is calling you "degrading labels" at all. And how can you assume this page is full of Manchester City supporters, just because he plays for them does not mean so. Like I say: referee's view, being dropped by the Dutch team and Newcastle's and City's reactions are more than necessary for a almost "non-event" that has been given hyperbolic prominence in the media considering the referee didn't even stop the game. I believe those four reactions are fair considering their are two each side of the fence. Anything mor than that is giving a fair tackle (according to the laws of the game) completely undue prominence. Stevo1000 ( talk) 22:24, 9 October 2010 (UTC)
There is a lot of hyperbole in the above exchanges, which I guess gives it a similarity to the media circus over the tackle. I would exclude the final comment from Craddocktm from that, as it includes good advice. The article as a whole is very underdeveloped given that de Jong has played for prominent clubs in three countries, and has nearly 50 international caps, including a run to the World Cup final. I intend to address that in the near future, maybe then the Ben Arfa incident can be covered in a manner that suits all parties without any fear of it being undue weight. Oldelpaso ( talk) 20:13, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
I won't investigate further but I know this list is not complete. 82.126.240.103 ( talk) 00:59, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
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This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Nigel de Jong article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
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This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
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He's actually on the standby list for the World Cup due to the injuries the Dutch team sustained recently. He may actually be on the roster, so I don't know why it says that he missed the 2006 World Cup before its actually even started.
Nigel de Jong is a disgrace and should have been awarded a red card for the world cup final along with a life time ban. His showed this true colours in the final and the national team must distance itself from him or take accept responsibility as the disgraceful drity team. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 170.170.59.135 ( talk) 14:56, 12 July 2010 (UTC)
Everythime when I see him with his new look it makes me think that he is partially of surinamese-chinese descent,just like Calvin Jong-a-Pin and Cerezo Fung a Wing. Karim Abdul Rashid ( talk) 15:39, 28 February 2009 (UTC)Karim Abdul Rashid Karim Abdul Rashid ( talk) 15:39, 28 February 2009 (UTC)
{{
editsemiprotected}}
In the 2010 FIFA World Cup Final de Jong was issued a yellow card for a challenge on Xabi Alonso for what ESPN commentator Efan Okoku called a "kung-fu style kick." De Jong himself stated that he was surprised to not have received a direct red for the challenge. Berg1115 ( talk) 18:59, 12 July 2010 (UTC)
The article makes the claim that he was brought into the Ajax first team as a regular, then later on found himself relegated to the bench. But the statistics don't bear that out. His first two seasons in the first team, he made 32 and 31 appearances respectively. His final half-season, he made sixteen appearances. Until I just edited it to tone down its florid language, the Manchester City section of the bio was at pains to point out that sixteen is a really impressive number of league appearances for half a season. Binabik80 ( talk) 21:56, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
Wikipedia is a source for relevant information on footballers. Part of that includes their background, ie if they grew up in wealth, poverty, hardship etc and other aspects of their life which may reflect their footballing character. People have been removing this information from de jong's profile without justification. This includes the cited information of how he was abandoned by his footballing father and grew up in council housing on government benefits, and how he now owns a global car dealership. This is directly relevant to a wiki bio. Deleting this info without justification is vandalism —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.188.240.229 ( talk) 05:57, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
Actually, you (Craddocktm) are the person pushing a POV here, throwing around adjectives such as "reckless" without any justification and addressing this latest controversy from a completely superficial, half-assed standpoint so that it reflects much worse on de Jong than it should do. Whether that was intentionally done or not does not really matter. I agree that the article should be about Nigel de Jong not Van Marwijk, however this whole brouhaha was created by the latter's words and actions and he is very much responsible for the current effects on de Jong's reputation (which is the topic that is being addressed here). Therefore those words and actions have to be placed in their proper context. If you are unable to present all the relevant facts and present them in their proper context so that the neutral reader gets a fair impression of what actually occurred then you should refrain from addressing this issue at all.
The facts of the matter are that this tackle was deemed a fair challenge by one of the PL's top referees at the time it occurred and it was not particularly upsetting to either the Newcastle bench or the Newcastle fans either - after the game the Toon fans were much more upset about Newcastle not being awarded a penalty for Lescott's mistimed tackle later in the game, and possibly even the penalty award for the foul on Tevez, than they were about the outcome of de Jong's challenge (which was put down to one of those unfortunate things that sometimes happen in a game). No particularly adverse comments were made about the tackle in the live TV match commentary and post-match analysis either - other than, of course, the obligatory mention that it is sad to see a player be carried off the pitch in that fashion - and in the match highlights that were later broadcast the incident was not even deemed worthy of being included. IOW, there was no controversial incident in that match until Van Marwijk started his attack on de Jong in the media ... after which, everyone with an agenda against either de Jong or Manchester City or both has since jumped on the bandwagon and it has now become open season on de Jong. To completely remove Van Marwijk and his motivations from the equation is to make nonsense of this whole incident.
My edit attempted to inject some of the above cold facts into the article in order to provide the neutral reader with a more balanced overall viewpoint in this controversy. I'm not claiming that my version is perfect and that I have successfully achieved the ideal balance nor that what I added cannot be further improved upon by others, but what I wrote was most certainly an order of magnitude better than the previous coverage of this incident (to which you have now reverted) which, because of its lack of thoroughness, comes across as being quite biased. Just because Van Marwijk and Kevin Poll claim it was a bad tackle does not make it so ... Martin Atkinson, his linesman, the fourth official and the F.A. all say it wasn't and none of those officials have a political agenda to push like Van Marwijk does, nor are they a national embarrassment and tabloid hack like Poll whose standard highly opinionated output borders on being "yellow journalism". To cite articles that present Poll's and Van Marwijk's POV without presenting the true context behind what they are saying is very much a case of presenting an overall distorted POV, as is failing to provide any reference to the more considered and better informed contrary opinions that support de Jong in this highly hyperbolic controversy. I also don't believe you should be citing media pages written by tabloid rag hacks such as Kevin Poll in a Wikipedia article ... they clearly fall into the category of "editorial opinion" and thus lack the objectivity necessary to meet the criterion of being a "reliable source" (RS).
My motivation for editing this area of the article was to add material that counterbalanced the overall biased POV that was presented to the reader by what you (Craddocktm) had written. It certainly wasn't intended to be a case of "unsourced POV pushing". Maybe this is a case of "two wrongs don't make a right". Perhaps what I should have done is simply remove your own incorrect "POV pushing" (backed with selectively chosen non-RS citations) rather than counter it with more of the same. Which is what I am now going to do. If this topic cannot be addressed objectively and fairly (WRT to Nigel de Jong's reputation) then it is much better that it not be addressed at all. Please DO NOT revert my changes a second time back to what you had previously written ... because that would be a case of your pushing your own POV yet a third time.
BTW, I don't necessarily condone de Jong's past tackles against Stuart Holden and Xabi Alonso (even de Jong admits that he should probably have been red carded for that one), but those tackles are not the issue here, although de Jong's reputation as a result of those previous poor tackles is very much the issue in this controversy. Any discussion of de Jong's tackle on Ben Arfa that automatically assumes it was a bad tackle based solely on his prior reputation, rather than on what he actually did, is by its very nature a biased perspective and I will revert it. Similarly, I will also remove any discussion of Van Marwijk's action in dropping de Jong from the Dutch squad that does not also address his true motivations for taking that action because that also presents a distorted POV. If Van Marwijk was at all serious about clamping down on reckless or dirty play then the first person that he needs to drop from the national team is his own son-in-law Van Bommel ... who has received nearly two dozen yellow cards in the last couple of seasons alone.
Mancini's Lasagne invite to Harry Talk
19:17, 8 October 2010 (UTC)
From my observations, if anyone's pushing POV here, its Craddocktm. For you to come on here and and question neutrality, considering you've edited the page god knows how many times just because of de Jong's tackle is a bit naughty, to me it hints that you have a "point of view" opinion that you want on this page (I've already changed "Discipline" to "Reputation" and this opinion from you "moving leg breaking to new section: discipline. at least he didnt break alonso's leg." shows you want this page to be skewed in a certain way). The tackle is much ado about nothing if you ask me. The media have jumped on it, and being the media, they have made a story out of an unfortunate footballing injury, end of. To conclude, I'm not comfortable (nor happy) debating the neutrality of the page with a user who, from my observations, has a opinion skewed against de Jong. I look forward to hearing your explanation. Stevo1000 ( talk) 16:34, 9 October 2010 (UTC)
oh lord. the worst aspects of wikipedia in a series of verbose, anal rants. the keyboard you used for this could have been put to some better use - shame. 129.11.77.198 ( talk) 18:30, 9 October 2010 (UTC)
I give up. No one is calling you "degrading labels" at all. And how can you assume this page is full of Manchester City supporters, just because he plays for them does not mean so. Like I say: referee's view, being dropped by the Dutch team and Newcastle's and City's reactions are more than necessary for a almost "non-event" that has been given hyperbolic prominence in the media considering the referee didn't even stop the game. I believe those four reactions are fair considering their are two each side of the fence. Anything mor than that is giving a fair tackle (according to the laws of the game) completely undue prominence. Stevo1000 ( talk) 22:24, 9 October 2010 (UTC)
There is a lot of hyperbole in the above exchanges, which I guess gives it a similarity to the media circus over the tackle. I would exclude the final comment from Craddocktm from that, as it includes good advice. The article as a whole is very underdeveloped given that de Jong has played for prominent clubs in three countries, and has nearly 50 international caps, including a run to the World Cup final. I intend to address that in the near future, maybe then the Ben Arfa incident can be covered in a manner that suits all parties without any fear of it being undue weight. Oldelpaso ( talk) 20:13, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
I won't investigate further but I know this list is not complete. 82.126.240.103 ( talk) 00:59, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
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