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Dodds would almost certainly call Derry Londonderry so that's the preferred term in this context I think. Please let's not have yet another childish rv war on that subject!!!
I think "a party not known for its intellectualism" is a bit pov (although I've a feeling I put it there in the first place!!!) so I've removed it. Happy to discuss. Gerry Lynch 22:10, 24 August 2005 (UTC)
Although Derry seems to be the standard term on Wikipedia, the inclusion of the official name does'nt overly bother me. I would rather keep the reference to intellectualism, as it seems to mark the party out from most of the others.
Lapsed Pacifist 01:51, 27 August 2005 (UTC)
Even though I probably wouldn't dispute the fact, the reference to "intellectualism" is definitely POV, so I've removed it.
Stu 10:56, 2 September 2005 (UTC)
From your edit history, it's clear that you do not believe that Northern Ireland is a legitimate state. You are entitled to that opinion; however, you are not entitled to push this opinion by rewriting articles to remove all references to "Northern Ireland". This latest tactic is just another version of your old "six counties" and "north-east" gimmicks. They didn't work; neither will this. Stop playing games and wasting both our time. Demiurge 00:57, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
I presume you're addressing me, Demiurge. Feel free to put any interpretation you like on my edits, they will stand or fall on their own merits. There are no fewer than seven instances in this article where the words "Northern" and "Ireland" appear consecutively. Were I 'rewriting articles to remove all references to "Northern Ireland"', I think I might have been slightly more thorough. Were you to write "Dodds travels regularly to Britain to attend parliament", and a particularly obstinate user insisted that you use the word "England" instead, you might have a better grasp of my reasoning.
Lapsed Pacifist 04:42, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom but it is not part of Britain. Millbanks ( talk) 19:57, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 06:12, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
Is there a notice anywhere on this article saying that WP:1RR applies? I couldn't help but notice this when skimming the log of currently active bans and blocks (and then zooming in on a participant or two to find out what the "edit warring" was about). 204.52.215.107 ( talk) 04:23, 26 February 2009 (UTC) Also, this is pretty OLD edit warring: judging from the above comments, it's been going on since 2005! 204.52.215.107 ( talk) 04:23, 26 February 2009 (UTC)
Since he's now a Privy Counsellor, there should presumably be a "PC" amongst his post-nominals. Andrew Gwilliam ( talk) 13:02, 12 June 2011 (UTC).
It is not clear if the brick was thrown at Dodds deliberately or not. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.126.93.17 ( talk) 11:34, 17 March 2014 (UTC)
The post 1973 city and district council area, now defunct since 1st April 2015, and which changed its name from Londonderry to Derry in 1984, included the actual city and extended into the county. The actual city and the county are both still officially called Londonderry, as is the postal district. Dodds was born in Altnagelvin hospital which today still lies inside County Londonderry. Dodds himself, being a unionist would be happy with the use of the correct name. I can see no justification for using a shortened version. It's not about consensus. It's about fact, otherwise any majority of editors at any time could name any place in the world anything that they liked.
I had a look. It seems to me that most of those editors are confused. In 1973 Northern Ireland was divided into 26 district council areas. One of those was the District of Londonderry which was given city status because within it lay the smaller City of Londonderry. The smaller City of Londonderry still exists today and has a Lord Lieutenant. (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord_Lieutenant_of_the_City_of_Londonderry ) In 1984, the larger 1973 creation known in full as "The City and District of Londonderry" had its name changed to "The City and District of Derry", but that did not affect the smaller City of Londonderry that lies within it, whose official name still remains "Londonderry". The 1973 creation "The City and District of Derry" has now been disbanded, but the original pre-1973 City of Londonderry continues. Meanwhile the County of Londonderry is, and has always been Londonderry. The Royal Mail postal district is also officially called Londonderry. Anyway, none of this should matter as regards Nigel Dodds since he was born in County Londonderry, and I don't agree with you that Derry is the common name for either the city or the county. People use both, as does the media, and Nigel Dodds himself uses Londonderry. Would it not be polite, since its a biography of a living person, to use the preferred usage of the subject in question? http://www.nigeldodds.co.uk/profile Why use what would be the choice of his political opponents? An encyclopaedia needs to be accurate. It's not about promoting what a small active group of editors, at one moment in time ten years ago, decided that they would like the facts to be. 86.162.190.142 ( talk) 19:23, 14 April 2015 (UTC)
Valenciano, OK, I accept that you don't have an agenda. You must realize by now though, that the official policy is flawed. It seems to be based on the fact that the district council area was called Derry after 1984, but that is not the same thing as the city itself. That seems to be the basis upon which it was reasoned that the city would be called Derry, while the county would be called Londonderry. It's faulty reasoning. Both the city and the county are officially called Londonderry. Secondly, it's wrong to classify this as a simple 'common name' dispute. This is not a common name dispute. It's a dispute about the fact that the republican faction specifically want to remove any mention of the word London in the name of the city. That reason should therefore be mentioned in the article itself as fact, so that foreigners (or indeed local readers) understand why some people want to call it Derry. At the moment, that important fact is being avoided, and the official policy seems to be playing into the hands of republicans who want to make readers wrongly believe that the city is already called Derry, while hiding their motives. 86.162.190.142 ( talk) 17:31, 16 April 2015 (UTC)
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@ Ponyo: you previously reverted the change from 2 to 3 in the infobox. According to the Belfast Telegraph he has two living children, a third died aged 9 in 1998. Obviously this is something we would need to handle with sensitivity, so perhaps we should leave the number of children out of the infobox and simply deal with it in the relevant section? FDW777 ( talk) 09:15, 24 December 2019 (UTC)
See
https://www.parliament.uk/business/lords/whos-in-the-house-of-lords/members-and-their-roles/how-members-are-appointed/. It normally takes several weeks from the time a potential new member is announced, by the government or the House of Lords Appointments Commission, before their actual appointment. Before anyone becomes a member, a title has to be agreed and legal documents called Letters Patent and Writ of Summons must be prepared
So let's not be in a rush to update the article then? FDW777 ( talk) 22:08, 1 August 2020 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Nigel Dodds article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
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This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
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Dodds would almost certainly call Derry Londonderry so that's the preferred term in this context I think. Please let's not have yet another childish rv war on that subject!!!
I think "a party not known for its intellectualism" is a bit pov (although I've a feeling I put it there in the first place!!!) so I've removed it. Happy to discuss. Gerry Lynch 22:10, 24 August 2005 (UTC)
Although Derry seems to be the standard term on Wikipedia, the inclusion of the official name does'nt overly bother me. I would rather keep the reference to intellectualism, as it seems to mark the party out from most of the others.
Lapsed Pacifist 01:51, 27 August 2005 (UTC)
Even though I probably wouldn't dispute the fact, the reference to "intellectualism" is definitely POV, so I've removed it.
Stu 10:56, 2 September 2005 (UTC)
From your edit history, it's clear that you do not believe that Northern Ireland is a legitimate state. You are entitled to that opinion; however, you are not entitled to push this opinion by rewriting articles to remove all references to "Northern Ireland". This latest tactic is just another version of your old "six counties" and "north-east" gimmicks. They didn't work; neither will this. Stop playing games and wasting both our time. Demiurge 00:57, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
I presume you're addressing me, Demiurge. Feel free to put any interpretation you like on my edits, they will stand or fall on their own merits. There are no fewer than seven instances in this article where the words "Northern" and "Ireland" appear consecutively. Were I 'rewriting articles to remove all references to "Northern Ireland"', I think I might have been slightly more thorough. Were you to write "Dodds travels regularly to Britain to attend parliament", and a particularly obstinate user insisted that you use the word "England" instead, you might have a better grasp of my reasoning.
Lapsed Pacifist 04:42, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom but it is not part of Britain. Millbanks ( talk) 19:57, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 06:12, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
Is there a notice anywhere on this article saying that WP:1RR applies? I couldn't help but notice this when skimming the log of currently active bans and blocks (and then zooming in on a participant or two to find out what the "edit warring" was about). 204.52.215.107 ( talk) 04:23, 26 February 2009 (UTC) Also, this is pretty OLD edit warring: judging from the above comments, it's been going on since 2005! 204.52.215.107 ( talk) 04:23, 26 February 2009 (UTC)
Since he's now a Privy Counsellor, there should presumably be a "PC" amongst his post-nominals. Andrew Gwilliam ( talk) 13:02, 12 June 2011 (UTC).
It is not clear if the brick was thrown at Dodds deliberately or not. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.126.93.17 ( talk) 11:34, 17 March 2014 (UTC)
The post 1973 city and district council area, now defunct since 1st April 2015, and which changed its name from Londonderry to Derry in 1984, included the actual city and extended into the county. The actual city and the county are both still officially called Londonderry, as is the postal district. Dodds was born in Altnagelvin hospital which today still lies inside County Londonderry. Dodds himself, being a unionist would be happy with the use of the correct name. I can see no justification for using a shortened version. It's not about consensus. It's about fact, otherwise any majority of editors at any time could name any place in the world anything that they liked.
I had a look. It seems to me that most of those editors are confused. In 1973 Northern Ireland was divided into 26 district council areas. One of those was the District of Londonderry which was given city status because within it lay the smaller City of Londonderry. The smaller City of Londonderry still exists today and has a Lord Lieutenant. (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord_Lieutenant_of_the_City_of_Londonderry ) In 1984, the larger 1973 creation known in full as "The City and District of Londonderry" had its name changed to "The City and District of Derry", but that did not affect the smaller City of Londonderry that lies within it, whose official name still remains "Londonderry". The 1973 creation "The City and District of Derry" has now been disbanded, but the original pre-1973 City of Londonderry continues. Meanwhile the County of Londonderry is, and has always been Londonderry. The Royal Mail postal district is also officially called Londonderry. Anyway, none of this should matter as regards Nigel Dodds since he was born in County Londonderry, and I don't agree with you that Derry is the common name for either the city or the county. People use both, as does the media, and Nigel Dodds himself uses Londonderry. Would it not be polite, since its a biography of a living person, to use the preferred usage of the subject in question? http://www.nigeldodds.co.uk/profile Why use what would be the choice of his political opponents? An encyclopaedia needs to be accurate. It's not about promoting what a small active group of editors, at one moment in time ten years ago, decided that they would like the facts to be. 86.162.190.142 ( talk) 19:23, 14 April 2015 (UTC)
Valenciano, OK, I accept that you don't have an agenda. You must realize by now though, that the official policy is flawed. It seems to be based on the fact that the district council area was called Derry after 1984, but that is not the same thing as the city itself. That seems to be the basis upon which it was reasoned that the city would be called Derry, while the county would be called Londonderry. It's faulty reasoning. Both the city and the county are officially called Londonderry. Secondly, it's wrong to classify this as a simple 'common name' dispute. This is not a common name dispute. It's a dispute about the fact that the republican faction specifically want to remove any mention of the word London in the name of the city. That reason should therefore be mentioned in the article itself as fact, so that foreigners (or indeed local readers) understand why some people want to call it Derry. At the moment, that important fact is being avoided, and the official policy seems to be playing into the hands of republicans who want to make readers wrongly believe that the city is already called Derry, while hiding their motives. 86.162.190.142 ( talk) 17:31, 16 April 2015 (UTC)
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@ Ponyo: you previously reverted the change from 2 to 3 in the infobox. According to the Belfast Telegraph he has two living children, a third died aged 9 in 1998. Obviously this is something we would need to handle with sensitivity, so perhaps we should leave the number of children out of the infobox and simply deal with it in the relevant section? FDW777 ( talk) 09:15, 24 December 2019 (UTC)
See
https://www.parliament.uk/business/lords/whos-in-the-house-of-lords/members-and-their-roles/how-members-are-appointed/. It normally takes several weeks from the time a potential new member is announced, by the government or the House of Lords Appointments Commission, before their actual appointment. Before anyone becomes a member, a title has to be agreed and legal documents called Letters Patent and Writ of Summons must be prepared
So let's not be in a rush to update the article then? FDW777 ( talk) 22:08, 1 August 2020 (UTC)