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That's not a child, he was a real-life bellboy born in 1910 that worked for a NYC hotel, that Phillip Morris eventually enlisted well into his adult years as part of their marketing campaign. He became well known to generations of Americans as the Phillip Morris bellboy, with his famous line "Call for Mr. Morris" being used to promote the product, first on radio and then perhaps most famously, on the hit American tv sitcom 'I Love Lucy' during the 1950s.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_Roventini — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.249.1.161 ( talk) 16:00, 3 March 2015 (UTC)
The 1930-1999 section contains information from after 1999. - KaJunl ( talk) 23:38, 17 September 2015 (UTC) KaJunl ( talk) 23:38, 17 September 2015 (UTC)
The grammar for the advertisement control section, especially for Asian countries, could be improved. - KaJunl ( talk) 23:55, 17 September 2015 (UTC) KaJunl ( talk) 23:55, 17 September 2015 (UTC)
Would the "truth" campaign be notable enough to add? I think it is significant. - KaJunl ( talk) 00:11, 18 September 2015 (UTC) KaJunl ( talk) 00:11, 18 September 2015 (UTC)
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Under the campaign title there is not much information on web advertisement of tobacco and when Microsoft and google began their policies and why. The effectiveness of tobacco advertisement could most likely be expanded upon. There seemed to be quite a bit of information on tobacco companies sponsoring NASCAR drivers, but not too much about other sports. It might be better to stay consistent with the amount of information on each sport. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.51.93.169 ( talk) 08:23, 4 October 2016 (UTC)
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This group's edits accurately reflected the goals they set out to achieve and provided good information regarding the background on the tobacco industry's impact on lower-income communities. Additionally, their references are all publicly available however, if possible include an accessible link to the source if available so that viewers won't be confused if they are correctly searching the right source (referring to source 22 under target youth). Miraj610 ( talk) 23:11, 7 November 2017 (UTC)
All additions/edits from the UCSF SOP student group and very valuable additions. Each individual edit is carefully thought out and show no sign of plagiarism or copyright infringement. Sparella12 ( talk) 01:24, 8 November 2017 (UTC)
The edits made by this group reflected a neutral point of view. The group used supporting facts with proper citation to address how tobacco industries target young people, especially the teenage population to use their products through misrepresentation of what tobacco is and its impact on the body. One way of improving the article would be to briefly explain what the Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco Control Act is since it was not very clear in the article. Beliang ( talk) 04:19, 8 November 2017 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Scottgrigsby ( talk • contribs)
The group nominally met their goal of adding information regarding targeting of tobacco advertising. There was not a substantial amount of information added. -- Scottgrigsby ( talk) 04:42, 8 November 2017 (UTC)
Yes, the edits follow wikipedias manual of style for medicine-related articles (found here: /info/en/?search=Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Medicine-related_articles)
They have written in a style that is directed to a general audience, and not just towards a health care professional or patient. They used laymen terms, and have used the proper citations needed. Great job! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tuba.nemati ( talk • contribs) 06:41, 8 November 2017 (UTC)
I chose not to make edits at this time due to the positive reviews from Group 11. Additionally, the article has already been relatively well populated with good information. I did take a look at the citations per Group 11's suggestion and my particular citation is associated with a first, last error. From my understanding, this is due to an unpopulated field in the citation generator (author last name specifically) and I tried to remove this field unsuccessfully. Perhaps there is a bug in the code preventing this from being achieved. Overall, I felt our edits have expanded on the targeting of youths by the tobacco industry by not just simply stating the fact, but by exploring the motives as cited by our sources. Ryan.ng22 ( talk) 07:53, 15 November 2017 (UTC)
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Nicotine marketing's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.
Reference named "Rom2014":
Reference named "England2015":
I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 20:38, 21 May 2018 (UTC)
Since according to the The role of the media in promoting and reducing tobacco use source, these are the dominant form of advertising (not marketing) by cost, I think we should include info on this. HLHJ ( talk) 22:34, 2 June 2018 (UTC)
There is an RfC at Talk:Marketing of electronic cigarettes#RfC about evaluating the accuracy of marketing claims on the question "Should articles that describe marketing claims also describe their accuracy, using WP:Reliable sources or WP:Reliable sources (medicine) as appropriate?" HLHJ ( talk) 01:14, 3 June 2018 (UTC)
Text on passive vaping was removed in this edit. This is a major marketing message, and I think omitting it seriously harms the article. While the section could be improved, removing it entirely seems excessive. Even allowing for the viewpoint that the accuracy of claims is off-topic, I think the actual claims (shorn of refs):
E-cigarettes are marketed as harmless to bystanders. Messages imply that users need no longer go outside to satisfy nicotine cravings. Phrases such as "No second-hand smoke" and "No passive smoking" are also common. |
are on-topic. The "only water vapour" claim might be cited, too. QuackGuru, would you be willing to restore this? HLHJ ( talk) 16:46, 3 June 2018 (UTC)
Hi, QuackGuru. Thanks for editing the article; it could do with more eyes. I had a few questions, bear with me, you did a lot of edits :) .
Hope this, and the accompanying edits, adequately fix the problems you pointed out. If not, please leave a note here and ping me. Thank you for helping me improve this article. HLHJ ( talk) 04:49, 1 June 2018 (UTC)
Hi, QuackGuru. In order to avoid further mistakes, I'm responding to your edits one-by one in detail.
As you can see, I have put considerable effort into answering your points. I hope you will answer the following requests:
Let's keep the discussion of this article here. HLHJ ( talk) 02:09, 2 June 2018 (UTC)
Copied from User talk:HLHJ:
You restored this content and made slight changes, but the content contains off-topic content, unreliable sources, and failed verification content. Do you agree you will stop adding or restoring off-topic content, unreliable sources, and failed verification content?
— User:QuackGuru
I'm sorry, QuackGuru, I thought I'd fixed the problems you mentioned (see details above, edit of 04:50, 1 June 2018). I had no intention of deliberately adding off-topic content, unreliable sources, and failed verification content, and I still have none. Thank you for adding tags that more narrowly define the specific issues you are raising. I've gone through your edits point by point, and if you respond to the requests for clarification above, hopefully we can progress towards consensus. HLHJ ( talk) 05:53, 2 June 2018 (UTC)
I would like to propose a new section on the page, focusing on the history and impact of tobacco advertisement in low-income communities. It is known that the tobacco industry is targeting more vulnerable communities that have less access to healthcare information. -- Themis.Wilson ( talk) 14:06, 18 October 2017 (UTC)
I think this is a good idea, Themis.Wilson. It had been done. But it seems that targeting people in a bad mood, say those with elevated stress levels, such poor people, ill people, and soldiers on deployment, is a specific marketing tactic, so when I can I'll try and structure the section in question a bit better; it's currently a US-centric string of dissociated stats.
Here's a good source, for the "self-medication" marketing message; despite the title, some of the content refers to mental illness more generally: Prochaska, Judith J.; Hall, Sharon M.; Bero, Lisa A. (2008-05).
"Tobacco Use Among Individuals With Schizophrenia: What Role Has the Tobacco Industry Played?". Schizophrenia Bulletin. 34 (3): 555–567.
doi:
10.1093/schbul/sbm117.
ISSN
0586-7614.
PMC
2632440.
PMID
17984298. {{
cite journal}}
: Check date values in: |date=
(
help)CS1 maint: PMC format (
link)
HLHJ (
talk)
05:41, 6 June 2018 (UTC)
Advertising tobacco products on TV and radio is banned in many countries, but, in some jurisdictions, the same restrictions do not apply to e-cigarette advertising.[citation needed]
E-cigarettes are marketed as a cheaper, more pleasant, and more convenient complement or alternative to smoking.[citation needed]
The content is unsourced and likely challenged. If the content is not sourced soon both sentences will be deleted. QuackGuru ( talk) 17:49, 4 June 2018 (UTC)
References
Grana2014
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).Both Google and Microsoft have policies that prohibit the promotion of tobacco products on their advertising networks.[99][100]
Both citations are not articles.
However, some tobacco retailers are able to circumvent these policies by creating landing pages that promote tobacco accessories such as cigar humidors and lighters.[citation needed]
The content is unsourced.
On Facebook, unpaid content, created and sponsored by tobacco companies, is widely used to advertise nicotine-containing products, with photos of the products, "buy now" buttons and a lack of age restrictions, in contravention of ineffectively enforced Facebook policies.[101][102][103][not in citation given]
The citations fail to verify the claim. [4] QuackGuru ( talk) 16:22, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
File:No-one_likes_a_quitter,_e-cigarette_ad.jpg This 2011 e-cigarette ad emphasizes choice, freedom, and rebellion ("take back your freedom"), not the less attractive entrapment and lack of freedom inherent in addiction. It plays on social anxieties with the phrase "Nobody likes a quitter". The topmost line, "WHY QUIT?", also contradicts the narrative that e-cigarettes help smokers quit. The ad is explicitly addressed at the "concerned smoker", someone considering quitting, and it suggests a more harmful(WHO ref) alternative to quitting.]]
This edit removed an image on the harms of vaping as off-topic and replaced a caption discussing the examples of advertising methods given by an e-cigarette ad with a mention of its brand name. The first is part of the RFC scope disagreement, so let's put a hold on that.
The ad caption (shown), on the other hand, tied it to the topic of the article and gives examples of the ad methods given in the once-adjacent discussion. That's why I added it, to illustrate those methods. If the caption says nothing much, I'm not sure we have a fair-use rationale for using it. While I do not have any sources specifically commenting on this image, that is normal for illustrations on Wikipedia (I mean, see the dog article; I don't think that a single image cites a reliable source that states that that image is an image of a dog). I can find sources that each of the methods mentioned:
The rest is just description of the image; the reader can, without reference to sources, evaluate the statement that the sentence "take back your freedom" "emphasizes choice, freedom, and rebellion", and the sentence "Nobody likes a quitter" plays on social anxieties, and that an ad saying "WHY QUIT?... SWITCH TO BLU/ blu is the smart choice for smokers wanting a change... Nobody likes a quitter, so make the switch today" is suggesting e-cigarettes as an alternative to quitting.
QuackGuru, I think this will resolve your complaint ("original research"), and you are currently not around to ask, so I will provisionally re-instate it with better sourcing. I'll leave in your brand wl, too, though I'm not sure it's needed. If you have other suggestions for improving the caption, I would welcome them. HLHJ ( talk) 16:46, 3 June 2018 (UTC)
References
reactance_smoking
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).FDA_review
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).media_role
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).WHOPosition2014
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).
Some marketing methods are common in nicotine ads. For instance, emphasizing choice, freedom, and rebellion [1] ("take back your freedom"), not the less attractive entrapment and lack of freedom inherent in addiction; [2]: 150 playing on social anxieties [3]: 216–217 ("Nobody likes a quitter"); and, for unwilling smokers, [3]: 146, 166–168 suggesting more harmful [4] alternatives to quitting ("WHY QUIT?"), which also contradicts the message that e-cigarettes help smokers quit [4]. |
References
reactance_smoking
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).FDA_review
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).media_role
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).WHOPosition2014
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).The sources are not directly about the blu e-cig ads or any e-cig ads. QuackGuru ( talk) 18:17, 3 June 2018 (UTC)
A 2011 blu e-cigarette ad stating, "WHY QUIT?" SWITCH TO BLU".
@ HLHJ and QuackGuru: My main concerns with having all the text in the "Goody two shoes" image caption is that the verbosity runs counter to the guidance (at both MOS:CAPTION and WP:CAPTION) that captions should be succinct, as well as the guidance in section 1.7 of WP:CAPTION "Drawing the reader into the article." Mojoworker ( talk) 18:09, 4 February 2019 (UTC)
Should we restore content that is not specifically about marketing? QuackGuru ( talk) 05:52, 8 June 2019 (UTC)
See "Common marketing messages on brand websites claim that e-cigarettes are safe and healthy.[70][clarification needed][71][not in citation given]"
The content requires clarification. Both sources do not support the same claim. The first source says "concerning". Therefore, the current content is inaccurate. I do not know the reason for the second citation. It does not appear verify the same claim. QuackGuru ( talk) 01:36, 10 June 2019 (UTC)
Heat-not-burn tobacco products were unsuccessfully released in the 1980s,[not in citation given] then re-released with viral marketing.[65][not in citation given]
See this diff. QuackGuru ( talk) 11:52, 11 June 2019 (UTC)
See content in the heat-not-burn article: "The Premier product concept went on to be further developed and re-launched as Eclipse[65] in the mid-1990s,[68] and was available in limited distribution as of 2015.[69] Eclipse was promoted using viral marketing.[65]" The viral marketing was for Eclipse. It was not about Heat-not-burn tobacco products in general. The same citation is used in the heat-not-burn article. The content in this article is making a broad claim that is not found in the citation. The claim in the heat-not-burn article is making a specific claim that is sourced and is found in the article. The quote does not verify the broad claim. QuackGuru ( talk) 05:33, 22 June 2019 (UTC)
See "The claim that they do not burn tobacco or emit smoke has been contested in a 2017 study.[68][unreliable medical source?]" A news article is not MEDRS compliant. See diff. QuackGuru ( talk) 16:39, 11 June 2019 (UTC)
I was unable to fix the archiving. The article was moved by another editor and the archives are under a different talk page name. QuackGuru ( talk) 15:31, 9 July 2019 (UTC)
Talk:Nicotine marketing/Archives/2011 Change to: Talk:Nicotine marketing/Archive/1
Talk:Nicotine marketing/Archives/2012 Change to: Talk:Nicotine marketing/Archive/2
Talk:Nicotine marketing/Archives/2015 Change to: Talk:Nicotine marketing/Archive/3
Support, as proposer. Anthony Appleyard ( talk · contribs) can you change the archive names? QuackGuru ( talk) 23:47, 9 July 2019 (UTC)
Talk:Nicotine marketing/Archive/1 Change to: Talk:Nicotine marketing/Archive 1
Talk:Nicotine marketing/Archive/2 Change to: Talk:Nicotine marketing/Archive 2
Talk:Nicotine marketing/Archive/3 Change to: Talk:Nicotine marketing/Archive 3
QUckGuru, could you please not manually archive discussions to which I have not yet had a chance to respond? The automatic archiving is almost always quite sufficient, and it is more difficult to discuss things in edit summaries. HLHJ ( talk) 04:13, 4 August 2019 (UTC)
This edit was a violation of talk page consensus. There was a discussion on the text for caption. See Talk:Nicotine_marketing/Archive_3#Goody_two_shoes_image_caption. Do you agree to stop violating consensus? QuackGuru ( talk) 04:24, 4 August 2019 (UTC)
Could you please say why you reverted this edit as failing verification? What specific facts do you doubt? Are there any of the four added sentences that you feel do not fail verification? HLHJ ( talk) 04:51, 4 August 2019 (UTC)
![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
That's not a child, he was a real-life bellboy born in 1910 that worked for a NYC hotel, that Phillip Morris eventually enlisted well into his adult years as part of their marketing campaign. He became well known to generations of Americans as the Phillip Morris bellboy, with his famous line "Call for Mr. Morris" being used to promote the product, first on radio and then perhaps most famously, on the hit American tv sitcom 'I Love Lucy' during the 1950s.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_Roventini — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.249.1.161 ( talk) 16:00, 3 March 2015 (UTC)
The 1930-1999 section contains information from after 1999. - KaJunl ( talk) 23:38, 17 September 2015 (UTC) KaJunl ( talk) 23:38, 17 September 2015 (UTC)
The grammar for the advertisement control section, especially for Asian countries, could be improved. - KaJunl ( talk) 23:55, 17 September 2015 (UTC) KaJunl ( talk) 23:55, 17 September 2015 (UTC)
Would the "truth" campaign be notable enough to add? I think it is significant. - KaJunl ( talk) 00:11, 18 September 2015 (UTC) KaJunl ( talk) 00:11, 18 September 2015 (UTC)
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Under the campaign title there is not much information on web advertisement of tobacco and when Microsoft and google began their policies and why. The effectiveness of tobacco advertisement could most likely be expanded upon. There seemed to be quite a bit of information on tobacco companies sponsoring NASCAR drivers, but not too much about other sports. It might be better to stay consistent with the amount of information on each sport. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.51.93.169 ( talk) 08:23, 4 October 2016 (UTC)
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This group's edits accurately reflected the goals they set out to achieve and provided good information regarding the background on the tobacco industry's impact on lower-income communities. Additionally, their references are all publicly available however, if possible include an accessible link to the source if available so that viewers won't be confused if they are correctly searching the right source (referring to source 22 under target youth). Miraj610 ( talk) 23:11, 7 November 2017 (UTC)
All additions/edits from the UCSF SOP student group and very valuable additions. Each individual edit is carefully thought out and show no sign of plagiarism or copyright infringement. Sparella12 ( talk) 01:24, 8 November 2017 (UTC)
The edits made by this group reflected a neutral point of view. The group used supporting facts with proper citation to address how tobacco industries target young people, especially the teenage population to use their products through misrepresentation of what tobacco is and its impact on the body. One way of improving the article would be to briefly explain what the Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco Control Act is since it was not very clear in the article. Beliang ( talk) 04:19, 8 November 2017 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Scottgrigsby ( talk • contribs)
The group nominally met their goal of adding information regarding targeting of tobacco advertising. There was not a substantial amount of information added. -- Scottgrigsby ( talk) 04:42, 8 November 2017 (UTC)
Yes, the edits follow wikipedias manual of style for medicine-related articles (found here: /info/en/?search=Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Medicine-related_articles)
They have written in a style that is directed to a general audience, and not just towards a health care professional or patient. They used laymen terms, and have used the proper citations needed. Great job! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tuba.nemati ( talk • contribs) 06:41, 8 November 2017 (UTC)
I chose not to make edits at this time due to the positive reviews from Group 11. Additionally, the article has already been relatively well populated with good information. I did take a look at the citations per Group 11's suggestion and my particular citation is associated with a first, last error. From my understanding, this is due to an unpopulated field in the citation generator (author last name specifically) and I tried to remove this field unsuccessfully. Perhaps there is a bug in the code preventing this from being achieved. Overall, I felt our edits have expanded on the targeting of youths by the tobacco industry by not just simply stating the fact, but by exploring the motives as cited by our sources. Ryan.ng22 ( talk) 07:53, 15 November 2017 (UTC)
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Nicotine marketing's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.
Reference named "Rom2014":
Reference named "England2015":
I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 20:38, 21 May 2018 (UTC)
Since according to the The role of the media in promoting and reducing tobacco use source, these are the dominant form of advertising (not marketing) by cost, I think we should include info on this. HLHJ ( talk) 22:34, 2 June 2018 (UTC)
There is an RfC at Talk:Marketing of electronic cigarettes#RfC about evaluating the accuracy of marketing claims on the question "Should articles that describe marketing claims also describe their accuracy, using WP:Reliable sources or WP:Reliable sources (medicine) as appropriate?" HLHJ ( talk) 01:14, 3 June 2018 (UTC)
Text on passive vaping was removed in this edit. This is a major marketing message, and I think omitting it seriously harms the article. While the section could be improved, removing it entirely seems excessive. Even allowing for the viewpoint that the accuracy of claims is off-topic, I think the actual claims (shorn of refs):
E-cigarettes are marketed as harmless to bystanders. Messages imply that users need no longer go outside to satisfy nicotine cravings. Phrases such as "No second-hand smoke" and "No passive smoking" are also common. |
are on-topic. The "only water vapour" claim might be cited, too. QuackGuru, would you be willing to restore this? HLHJ ( talk) 16:46, 3 June 2018 (UTC)
Hi, QuackGuru. Thanks for editing the article; it could do with more eyes. I had a few questions, bear with me, you did a lot of edits :) .
Hope this, and the accompanying edits, adequately fix the problems you pointed out. If not, please leave a note here and ping me. Thank you for helping me improve this article. HLHJ ( talk) 04:49, 1 June 2018 (UTC)
Hi, QuackGuru. In order to avoid further mistakes, I'm responding to your edits one-by one in detail.
As you can see, I have put considerable effort into answering your points. I hope you will answer the following requests:
Let's keep the discussion of this article here. HLHJ ( talk) 02:09, 2 June 2018 (UTC)
Copied from User talk:HLHJ:
You restored this content and made slight changes, but the content contains off-topic content, unreliable sources, and failed verification content. Do you agree you will stop adding or restoring off-topic content, unreliable sources, and failed verification content?
— User:QuackGuru
I'm sorry, QuackGuru, I thought I'd fixed the problems you mentioned (see details above, edit of 04:50, 1 June 2018). I had no intention of deliberately adding off-topic content, unreliable sources, and failed verification content, and I still have none. Thank you for adding tags that more narrowly define the specific issues you are raising. I've gone through your edits point by point, and if you respond to the requests for clarification above, hopefully we can progress towards consensus. HLHJ ( talk) 05:53, 2 June 2018 (UTC)
I would like to propose a new section on the page, focusing on the history and impact of tobacco advertisement in low-income communities. It is known that the tobacco industry is targeting more vulnerable communities that have less access to healthcare information. -- Themis.Wilson ( talk) 14:06, 18 October 2017 (UTC)
I think this is a good idea, Themis.Wilson. It had been done. But it seems that targeting people in a bad mood, say those with elevated stress levels, such poor people, ill people, and soldiers on deployment, is a specific marketing tactic, so when I can I'll try and structure the section in question a bit better; it's currently a US-centric string of dissociated stats.
Here's a good source, for the "self-medication" marketing message; despite the title, some of the content refers to mental illness more generally: Prochaska, Judith J.; Hall, Sharon M.; Bero, Lisa A. (2008-05).
"Tobacco Use Among Individuals With Schizophrenia: What Role Has the Tobacco Industry Played?". Schizophrenia Bulletin. 34 (3): 555–567.
doi:
10.1093/schbul/sbm117.
ISSN
0586-7614.
PMC
2632440.
PMID
17984298. {{
cite journal}}
: Check date values in: |date=
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HLHJ (
talk)
05:41, 6 June 2018 (UTC)
Advertising tobacco products on TV and radio is banned in many countries, but, in some jurisdictions, the same restrictions do not apply to e-cigarette advertising.[citation needed]
E-cigarettes are marketed as a cheaper, more pleasant, and more convenient complement or alternative to smoking.[citation needed]
The content is unsourced and likely challenged. If the content is not sourced soon both sentences will be deleted. QuackGuru ( talk) 17:49, 4 June 2018 (UTC)
References
Grana2014
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).Both Google and Microsoft have policies that prohibit the promotion of tobacco products on their advertising networks.[99][100]
Both citations are not articles.
However, some tobacco retailers are able to circumvent these policies by creating landing pages that promote tobacco accessories such as cigar humidors and lighters.[citation needed]
The content is unsourced.
On Facebook, unpaid content, created and sponsored by tobacco companies, is widely used to advertise nicotine-containing products, with photos of the products, "buy now" buttons and a lack of age restrictions, in contravention of ineffectively enforced Facebook policies.[101][102][103][not in citation given]
The citations fail to verify the claim. [4] QuackGuru ( talk) 16:22, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
File:No-one_likes_a_quitter,_e-cigarette_ad.jpg This 2011 e-cigarette ad emphasizes choice, freedom, and rebellion ("take back your freedom"), not the less attractive entrapment and lack of freedom inherent in addiction. It plays on social anxieties with the phrase "Nobody likes a quitter". The topmost line, "WHY QUIT?", also contradicts the narrative that e-cigarettes help smokers quit. The ad is explicitly addressed at the "concerned smoker", someone considering quitting, and it suggests a more harmful(WHO ref) alternative to quitting.]]
This edit removed an image on the harms of vaping as off-topic and replaced a caption discussing the examples of advertising methods given by an e-cigarette ad with a mention of its brand name. The first is part of the RFC scope disagreement, so let's put a hold on that.
The ad caption (shown), on the other hand, tied it to the topic of the article and gives examples of the ad methods given in the once-adjacent discussion. That's why I added it, to illustrate those methods. If the caption says nothing much, I'm not sure we have a fair-use rationale for using it. While I do not have any sources specifically commenting on this image, that is normal for illustrations on Wikipedia (I mean, see the dog article; I don't think that a single image cites a reliable source that states that that image is an image of a dog). I can find sources that each of the methods mentioned:
The rest is just description of the image; the reader can, without reference to sources, evaluate the statement that the sentence "take back your freedom" "emphasizes choice, freedom, and rebellion", and the sentence "Nobody likes a quitter" plays on social anxieties, and that an ad saying "WHY QUIT?... SWITCH TO BLU/ blu is the smart choice for smokers wanting a change... Nobody likes a quitter, so make the switch today" is suggesting e-cigarettes as an alternative to quitting.
QuackGuru, I think this will resolve your complaint ("original research"), and you are currently not around to ask, so I will provisionally re-instate it with better sourcing. I'll leave in your brand wl, too, though I'm not sure it's needed. If you have other suggestions for improving the caption, I would welcome them. HLHJ ( talk) 16:46, 3 June 2018 (UTC)
References
reactance_smoking
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).FDA_review
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).media_role
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).WHOPosition2014
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).
Some marketing methods are common in nicotine ads. For instance, emphasizing choice, freedom, and rebellion [1] ("take back your freedom"), not the less attractive entrapment and lack of freedom inherent in addiction; [2]: 150 playing on social anxieties [3]: 216–217 ("Nobody likes a quitter"); and, for unwilling smokers, [3]: 146, 166–168 suggesting more harmful [4] alternatives to quitting ("WHY QUIT?"), which also contradicts the message that e-cigarettes help smokers quit [4]. |
References
reactance_smoking
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).FDA_review
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).media_role
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).WHOPosition2014
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).The sources are not directly about the blu e-cig ads or any e-cig ads. QuackGuru ( talk) 18:17, 3 June 2018 (UTC)
A 2011 blu e-cigarette ad stating, "WHY QUIT?" SWITCH TO BLU".
@ HLHJ and QuackGuru: My main concerns with having all the text in the "Goody two shoes" image caption is that the verbosity runs counter to the guidance (at both MOS:CAPTION and WP:CAPTION) that captions should be succinct, as well as the guidance in section 1.7 of WP:CAPTION "Drawing the reader into the article." Mojoworker ( talk) 18:09, 4 February 2019 (UTC)
Should we restore content that is not specifically about marketing? QuackGuru ( talk) 05:52, 8 June 2019 (UTC)
See "Common marketing messages on brand websites claim that e-cigarettes are safe and healthy.[70][clarification needed][71][not in citation given]"
The content requires clarification. Both sources do not support the same claim. The first source says "concerning". Therefore, the current content is inaccurate. I do not know the reason for the second citation. It does not appear verify the same claim. QuackGuru ( talk) 01:36, 10 June 2019 (UTC)
Heat-not-burn tobacco products were unsuccessfully released in the 1980s,[not in citation given] then re-released with viral marketing.[65][not in citation given]
See this diff. QuackGuru ( talk) 11:52, 11 June 2019 (UTC)
See content in the heat-not-burn article: "The Premier product concept went on to be further developed and re-launched as Eclipse[65] in the mid-1990s,[68] and was available in limited distribution as of 2015.[69] Eclipse was promoted using viral marketing.[65]" The viral marketing was for Eclipse. It was not about Heat-not-burn tobacco products in general. The same citation is used in the heat-not-burn article. The content in this article is making a broad claim that is not found in the citation. The claim in the heat-not-burn article is making a specific claim that is sourced and is found in the article. The quote does not verify the broad claim. QuackGuru ( talk) 05:33, 22 June 2019 (UTC)
See "The claim that they do not burn tobacco or emit smoke has been contested in a 2017 study.[68][unreliable medical source?]" A news article is not MEDRS compliant. See diff. QuackGuru ( talk) 16:39, 11 June 2019 (UTC)
I was unable to fix the archiving. The article was moved by another editor and the archives are under a different talk page name. QuackGuru ( talk) 15:31, 9 July 2019 (UTC)
Talk:Nicotine marketing/Archives/2011 Change to: Talk:Nicotine marketing/Archive/1
Talk:Nicotine marketing/Archives/2012 Change to: Talk:Nicotine marketing/Archive/2
Talk:Nicotine marketing/Archives/2015 Change to: Talk:Nicotine marketing/Archive/3
Support, as proposer. Anthony Appleyard ( talk · contribs) can you change the archive names? QuackGuru ( talk) 23:47, 9 July 2019 (UTC)
Talk:Nicotine marketing/Archive/1 Change to: Talk:Nicotine marketing/Archive 1
Talk:Nicotine marketing/Archive/2 Change to: Talk:Nicotine marketing/Archive 2
Talk:Nicotine marketing/Archive/3 Change to: Talk:Nicotine marketing/Archive 3
QUckGuru, could you please not manually archive discussions to which I have not yet had a chance to respond? The automatic archiving is almost always quite sufficient, and it is more difficult to discuss things in edit summaries. HLHJ ( talk) 04:13, 4 August 2019 (UTC)
This edit was a violation of talk page consensus. There was a discussion on the text for caption. See Talk:Nicotine_marketing/Archive_3#Goody_two_shoes_image_caption. Do you agree to stop violating consensus? QuackGuru ( talk) 04:24, 4 August 2019 (UTC)
Could you please say why you reverted this edit as failing verification? What specific facts do you doubt? Are there any of the four added sentences that you feel do not fail verification? HLHJ ( talk) 04:51, 4 August 2019 (UTC)