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IPA would be fine if every computer could cope with it—it appears as a string of little squares on mine. (Copey)
Incidentally, does anyone know why this article isn't listed in the alphabetical list at All articles? Copey 2 03:11, 5 March 2006 (UTC) (=Copey)
Take a look at this page: http://new-zealand.asinah.net/en/wikipedia/n/ne/new_zealand_english.html
This article seems to have started as a copy of the page linked above. That's bad because the page in question includes this text: "Copyright 1995 - 2004 United Dragon Holdings Inc. All Rights Reserved."
We're not talking about the same ideas. We're talking about paragraphs word for word, even including links.
Maybe the non-Wiki site stole our content? Or are we using it in violation of their rights?
However, this American is going to remain unconvinced until you lazy .au and .nz sods get off your duffs and document them here.
I think people have done a good job on this page. I would add some borrowed Maori words myself but it is a bit of challenge for a Brit to turn a list of borrowed words from a page like this into something that does not invalidate the author's copyright. -- Artistole
I've added a description of the pronunciation of "dance". Someone should check whether my description matches the samples I've uploaded to "Pronunciation" at http://briefcase.yahoo.com/careyevans/. -- Carey Evans
There's lots more material here now. Still to add is some mention of non-Maori New Zealand words, like bach and crib, though this is more difficult for me since I don't have the perspective to know which are actually unique to NZ. If someone adds the words, I'll define them. -- Carey Evans
'Port' is only used for schoolbag in some Australian states (e.g. I think Queensland.) In NSW and Victoria (Hey! -and Tassie!!! - MB) (and W.A. - Mark Ryan) people say schoolbag, same as Kiwis do. -- SJK
Taken this from list of words unique to NZ and australia, since it's also used in Britain -- AdamW
mate: Buddy or pal, the same as Australian English.
An anonymous user writes:
I'm not so sure about this; some dialects of English would roll that R, and NZers hardly even pronouce R's when they are there. OTOH, I don't think I pronounce "pasta" properly, either.
I'll try again with "car", which most pages seem to use for that vowel sound.
-- Carey Evans, 2002-02-03
"Taught properly" indeed! Chance vs charnce is optional in Australian English. Charnce is used by nearly all South Australians, most denizens of Toorak and Vaucluse and Paddington, and a good smattering of others from all over, NSW in particular. Rough guess: 70% of Australians say "chance". Yes, and some of us even had educations! Oh, and one more difference in usage to list: dairy vs milk bar.
It's interesting to see how many words Oz and Kiwi English have in common - more than I'd have thought until I stopped to ponder and read the examples in this and a couple of related entries. It's not so surprising that words like bush have made the trans-Tasman journey, but it is surprising to realise how many Maori words are quite familiar to this Aussie boy. Tannin
Ozdaren 15:25, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
Re: Swimming costume. In the southern states of Austraila, "cossie" is understood but never used. The term "bathers" refers to the bathing costumes of both men and women, and includes specific types such as Speedos and bikinis.
Can somebody tell me the origins of 2 specific usages:-
[1]....many Kiwis, especially in the rural sector, will nearly always answer a question with a contradiction, e.g.
[Q]"do you think this horse is a good bet?"
[A]...yeah, no...she's a good bet"
Why say "Yes" immediately followed by a "No".
[2]....many Kiwis ask a question twice, e.g.
"..are you going to the City, are you?"
Why say "are you" twice?
thanks
With regard to the second of the two questions earlier, I point out that the question is not "are you going to the city, eh?" but "you're going the city, eh?", though in context the you're can be omitted (thus "going to the city, eh?"). The "eh?" is never pronounced with a rise of pitch towards the end, it is only used for confirmation. The question isn't asked twice. Compare:
That is the usage of "eh?". Neonumbers
Are NZers the only people to use "no..yeah?" Maybe they are in English, but the Germans use it also nicht ja? Very much doubt there's any connection, though. Grutness| hello? 07:29, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)
re: the eh at end of sentences, ive lived in NZ all my life and always thought that it was more of an aye, not so much an 'e' sound Itsawayoflife 09:24, 20 September 2006 (UTC)its a way of life
So what do New Zealanders/Kiwis call the kiwifruit? China gooseberry? jengod 08:01, Jan 16, 2004 (UTC)
kiwifruit of course, after all we invented them. ping 08:05, 16 Jan 2004 (UTC)
Wait. I must be dumb. Is this part of the article a joke on ignorant merkins?: "The use of kiwi to refer to kiwifruit is not part of New Zealand English and will irritate many New Zealanders."
Oh, and New Zealanders don't call New Zealanders Kiwis very often either. It's mostly a term used by ads, television anchors, and friendly foreigners. Ben Arnold 13:37, 6 Jun 2004 (UTC)
kiwis call themselves kiwis Itsawayoflife 09:22, 20 September 2006 (UTC)itsawayoflife
The page likens Swanndri (NZ) to Driza-Bone (Oz), saying they are the quintessential back-country farmer's jacket of each country, a woollen shirt and oilskin jacket respectively. The Sou' Wester oilskin coat in NZ is the same as the Driza-Bone, not the Swanndri. Sou' Westers are still widely used, especially on horseback . Moriori 22:42, Jan 26, 2004 (UTC)
Comparing Swanndri against Drizabone is more to do with culture than language—they're not different words for the same thing. The Drizabone in NZ is a knee- or calf-length coat rather than a jacket—unless the word jacket can refer to longer garments in other dialects. Both words are trade-names in any case. The original Swanndri (I've occasionally heard "Swanny") was manufactured in Waitara, Taranaki by John Mack & Co, though I think it was later taken over by a larger company. I doubt that the word was extended to other brands. I'm not sure if John Mack still exists.—Copey, Jan 19, 2006
What about the "Affco Nightie'? Is it widespread enough to be worth a mention? ping 08:24, 27 Apr 2004 (UTC)
Plastic meatworks issue raincoat? There are various different brands of oilskin "parkas" popular in NZ - a top-end example equivalent to Driza-Bone in its being sold in trendy city shops (as opposed to just being sold in farm or maritime supply stores) is Backhouse from Wanganui.
JohnGH 01:58, 04 Jan 2006 (GMT) :o)
Coming from South Australia the most common name I have heard for an oiled water-proof jacket/coat is an oilskin coat or even stockman's coat. driza-bone is a brand name. RM Williams is located in Prospect an inner Adelaide Suburb and of course they don't use the other company's brand name. Sou'wester would be considered old fashioned (the sort of thing your grandparents might wear). Ozdaren 15:15, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
What the hell is a "milkbar" supposed to be, in Australia? Is it a dairy? Lacrimosus 02:56, 24 Jun 2004 (UTC)
A milkbar is a small convenience store where you can buy things like chips (both the hot and cold varieties), newspapers, drinks, pies and other assorted things. They used to sell milkshakes too, though many who still call themselves milkbars dont.
See here milk bar. Asa01 22:40, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
Its used only in Victoria. In SA, they are called "delis" Frances76 05:53, 28 January 2006 (UTC)
I deleted the last sentence from:
""Kia Ora", literally "be healthy", is now a standard New Zealand greeting. In Māori situations it is often used after someone has spoken meaning "Have you got that?" or possibly "Do you agree with me?" but this has not extended to general use."
It is used by listeners to acknowledge or support a speaker in Maori situations. Actually I'm not sure it's a standard New Zealand greeting either given the current kerfuffle over its use on the tv news. Nurg 11:13, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Put in a little bit about this phenomenon of the 'l' changing to a 'w' and also the 'i' or 'iu' becoming a 'u' sound as in build (buwd). Don't know how common it is in New Zealand other than Auckland mainly with the younger generation although not limited to and usually only people in south Aucks. Although it's little rough and not using correct terminology.-- Hekaz 11:18, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)
I think the l-dropping phenomenon, which I've heard even among educated kiwis, arises from the fact that in New Zealand English, lip-rounded vowels are pronounced differently if l follows. The vowel in school is a high back vowel, while that in scoot is a high central one. Similarly, the diphthong in coal consists of a middle back vowel gliding into a high back one, while that in coat consists of a low to lower-mid central vowel gliding into a high central one. If the l is dropped, the vowel sound still conveys the impression of a following dark l, even to the ears of a non-l-dropping kiwi. In these instances, l is dropped rather than replaced with w. When l follows a non-lip-rounded vowel, l-droppers replace it with a high back lip-rounded vowel sound. It is probably misleading to represent this as w, as the consonantal w does not involve the raising of the back of the tongue in NZ English. —Copey
New Zealand English close to Australian English?? Really? They're completely different, or does it just sound like that to me because I'm a New Zealander? Neonumbers 09:04, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC)
The sound different to me also but Northern Hemisphere English speakers insist that they sound very similar. I guess we have to learn to live with that. ping 07:14, 25 Nov 2004 (UTC)
The example list of accurate Māori pronunciations compared to Anglicised ones is ambiguous. The columns need to be labelled! 203.220.42.164 08:22, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
I've removed Kawarau's ka-worra pronunciation from this list, because it isn't a false anglicised pronunciation - it's a southern Maori dialect pronunciation. The spelling with the final "u" resulted from it being written down by Scots - it probably should have been spelt Kawara. Grutness| hello?
That's part of the southern dialect - compare the one in the (real) pronunciation of Oamaru. Remember the Scots also misheard "Kirimoko" as "Kilmog", again with the "hot" O. Compare also Hokitika's pronunciation. The O can be short in Southern Maori. Grutness| hello? 23:48, 23 Jan 2005 (UTC)
h2g2 has quite an extensive list at [1] - could be a basis for a few extra entries in our list. dramatic 08:42, 23 Jan 2005 (UTC)
I can't help but wondering if the sections in this article are the right way round. An article on NZ english starts with a detailed discussion of Maori, then goes into Maori influence (which is what the previous sections were about). I'd keep the Maori section near the top, and would also split the first section (i.e., the introductory four paragraphs) up, and suggest the following reorder:
Introduction:
Grutness| hello? 23:10, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)
I'll give it a week or so to see if anyone objects, but if others think it's a good diea too, then I'll swap things around. Grutness| hello?
Update. Done. Comments, bouquets, brickbats? Grutness| hello? 06:54, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)
I thought the word in Maori that asks "is that not so?" was "ne" not "nei". It's used in at least two places in the article. Can anyone confirm either way? Ben Arnold 09:06, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)
in your section 'Spelling' you state -ize is UK english.
You are absolutely wrong. -ise is the overwhelmingly common ending here in the UK, the ending -ize is an american invention.
Whereas we write 'burgled', and americans would say 'burglarized'. By further illustration UK is 'sodomised' but US is 'sodomized'. It is a horrible clumsy adaptation and universally ignored in the UK. Unless you can justify your claim I will be forced to edit the article to remove this calumny against my native language :-P
As in a velar trill? Sure these weren't French settlers? Alai 06:28, 29 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Really? If asked which was the predominant term in NZ, I'd judge that they are about equal. Some supermarkets call them courgettes, some zuchinnis, ditto fruiterers and locally published recipies. Restaurants seem to favour Zuchinni - maybe because Italian cuisine is more fashionable than French these days. So even if zuchinni is the predominant form in Oz, I don't think a contrast is warranted. dramatic 10:07, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Newzild (a play on the 'lazy' pronunciation of New Zealand by some speakers) is a colloquial name for New Zealand speech, maybe heard less often now than in the 1970's and 1980's. It was also the title of a short humorous book, a companion to "Les Stalk Strine", which spoofed Australian English. If I can find my copy I'll post publication details. dramatic 03:25, 7 May 2005 (UTC)
There's an article ( International Phonetic Alphabet for English) that describes the differences between General American, General Australian and Received Pronunciation. Can any one who knows linguistics update this article to include New Zealand pronunciation?
I have a lot of trouble understanding IPA because all the examples for the symbols are in accents that don't match mine. (I remember an American telling me the a in Java was like the o in hot, when they really meant something closer to the u in hut.) Ben Arnold 01:06, 11 May 2005 (UTC)
I discovered this when I stumbled upon the fjord article and thought, "oh yeah, someone's decided to be politically correct and use the non-anglicised form". After a bit of googling I found out that the rest of the world seems to hold to that crazy j:
versus
Ben Arnold 12:11, 16 May 2005 (UTC)
I must confess the NZ results surprise me. As a kiwi I would only use the spelling "fiord" or the 2-syllable pronunciation (emphasis on i)_ in reference to the Fiordland ones, and even then, I'm more likely to call them sounds. In The Salmon of Doubt, a posthumous edition of collected Douglas Adams pieces, the spelling Fjordland (quite likely not Adams's) appears (page 44). Copey 2 02:43, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
This is my first attempt based on the reading and listening I've been doing. I'm hoping it will form the basis for a discussion here that can make its way into the text.
The Received Pronounciation, General American and General Australian sounds I've got from International Phonetic Alphabet for English.
A
E
I
O
U
Here are links to a couple of diagrams for New Zealand English
Monophthongs and
Diphthongs.
Could you list your references? –
AxSkov (
T)
12:15, 22 May 2005 (UTC)
I've just added a section (Lack of distinction between /ɒ/ and /ʌ/), but I too know very little IPA, so I'd be grateful if someone else could check that I haven't made a mess of it! Cheers - Grutness... wha? 14:00, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC).
In Australia, about the only thing you call small cabined vehicles with trays on them is by the term "Ute" which is not what is stated in the article (claims that Aussies don't use the word Ute). If you said 'Utility' to me, i would assume you were a US person.
Although it's true some nz-ers will make the i sound like a u (even to me and possibly other native kiwis), it's not the norm and most of us will consider the proper pronunciation to be the "schwa" sound. the pronunciation of "i" as something close to a "u" is somtimes done for humorous effect e.g. chevaunes barbie character in serial stuff (in the tv show "what now")
The use of the word 'patu' is a borrowing from Maori. It has 2 meanings;
A. A Maori fighting club.
B. A slang term meaning 'rubbish'.
- ( Aidan Work 05:41, 5 December 2005 (UTC))
I clicked on the hoki link in this page and found it redirects to the Hoki Province page. Should hoki by itself be a disambiguation page?
I was thrilled a few days before Christmas 2005 to find Hoki on sale in Tesco in Nitra, but stunned when I checked the label to find that it was from Argentina and not from GodZone. :-(
After some Googling tonight I find theirs is Macruronus magellanicus, not Macruronus novaezelandiae. This left me wondering - is hoki *really* a Maori name - can anyone trace its origin? - in Australia it's Blue Grenadier and also Blue Hake.
- ( JohnGH 02:30, 4 Jan 2006 (GMT))
The hoki fish had nothing to do with Selwyn Toogood's cry of "By hokey!". It roughly meant "goodness gracious!" or "my word!" or somesuch. This link here is one of many google results which shows it in context. Uncommon today though. Cheers Moriori 22:41, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
Before adding words to the vocabulary secton, please do a bit of research:
dramatic 08:10, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
Matters I would prefer a qualified linguist to comment on--
w vs wh—Many kiwis distinguish these, though some of us older ones were taught to do so at school. Not as universal as in Scotland, but what is the status of a distinct wh phoneme here?
u and ou? — In NZ English the vowel in school, differs from that in scoot. Similarly the diphthong in coal differs from that in coat--see my comment further down under 'Milk'. It's the following dark l that makes the difference. Australians don't split the u phoneme; I'm not sure about ou. Do any other dialects make this distinction?
In TV news and weather reports, the word the followed by a vowel is frequently pronounced with schwa, followed by a glottal stop, rather than as "thee" (sorry, can't do IPA), and gliding into the vowel. Can anyone comment on how widespread this is, with reference to age, region and possibly gender?—Copey
Would be good to add a comment about references to the islands of NZ—always the North Island and the South Island, unless used attributively—a number of South Island farmers... etc. Also the use of in rather than on to express location on the two main islands—in the North Island, in the South Island, but on Stewart Island, on Great Barrier Island
Do people still use the term Newzild? It used to be used deliberately and facetiously to refer to the perceived sloppiness of NZ speech. It derives from a small humorous book that came out in the late 1960s called Newzild and how to speak it, which cashed in, with some success, on the popularity (even in NZ) of its earlier Australian counterpart, Let Stalk Strine. (Sorry, don't know the names of the respective authors)—Copey
I'm pretty sure it was in widespread use even in the 70s, and still is today. I'll try to find some sources if I can. Grutness... wha? 02:05, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
BTW, given that Newzild redirects here, the term should be mentioned on the page (per Wikipedia:Redirects#What needs to be done on pages that are targets of redirects?). I'm sure it used to be mentioned in the first paragraph - I've put it back (feel free to revert if you think it's unnecessary). Grutness... wha? 06:47, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
I lived briefly in Rotorua and remember schoolkids using the slang word "ehau" or "ehor" in place of "mate", "friend" or "mister" when addressing someone directly, perhaps when being a little in-yer-face. This was in the early 1960s, so precise usage is difficult to recall, but I don't believe I dreamt it. Anyone comment? Folks at 137 22:55, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for this, perhaps Alzheimer's is further away than the kids think. Also: We used "neat" to mean modern "cool" or "really good". (It's all coming back to me!) I'd add these to the article but, given the comments above, "Criteria for Vocabulary", I'm hesitant to be bold. Wait for encouragement. Folks at 137 23:30, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
Am I the only one who thinks of 'e hoa' as two words? ping 08:02, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
It is my understanding that Samuel Butler did not name his high country sheep station "Erewhon" but that another runholder named his station "Erewhon" in honour of the novel Butler wrote. Butler's station was "Mesopotamia". Both stations still exist under those names both in the Canterbury High Country one in the Rakaia watershed and the other in the Rangitata. I think this is common knowledge. Can anyone verify?
When I was younger it was common for pakeha kiwis to say "Hurray!" when saying "Good-bye" and in fact I still use it from time to time but younger people do not. I used to say it when I lived for a time in England and afterwards wondered what people thought I meant. I believe it probably originated from the Maori "Haere ra". ??? Any ideas
I'd like to suggest that the "Unique words and phrases" section be moved out into its own article (with a name like List of New Zealand English words and phrases). It's getting pretty long and unqieldy where it is, and it's poorly headed, too, since many of the words there aren't unique but are shared with Australia or the UK. Grutness... wha? 00:42, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
I have moved the long lists of Maori words used in NZ English to a separate article Māori influence on New Zealand English. I started that article to take a nearly identical list that I took out of the article Māori language where its relevance was peripheral to the subject of that article. Kahuroa 04:10, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
Do Kiwis really call a mobile phone a cellphone, as per "Vocabulary differences" in the article? I recall they were called that years ago when they first came out, but these days, isn't mobile phone the norm? Example: that little girl in the Telecom ad who say she is going to ring someone on her mobile. Moriori 22:17, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
It's not a real biggie, but I can't for the life of me remember any of my friends/acquaintances/colleagues actually using "cellphone". It's mobile all the way. Cheers. Moriori 07:13, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
In auckland i usually hear mobile being used, but sometimes its just plain old phone "where's my ohone?". Thats usually just when its obvious it could only be a mobile. never cellphone Itsawayoflife 09:31, 20 September 2006 (UTC)its a way of life
This whole section needs pruning. If these phrases are used in New Zealand, they are regionalisms, and not particularly characteristic of New Zealand English generally. I am a New Zealander, and I am not familar with many of them. Nor is the collection anywhere close to being comprehensive. It's just filler. A few more carefully chosen, characteristic examples would be much better.
To rark up seems to be New Zealand English slang. I don't know any origins, so adding it would be original research, but if anyone has sources, adding a few lines about it would be nice. -- Gerrit C U T E D H 12:03, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
This has developed into a Very Silly List. A great many of them are described as shared with other forms of English. That means they aren't distinctive or particularly characteristic of NZ English. So why are they here. A lot of the rest are outdated or just plain slang. To be listed on this page, words should be CHARACTERISTIC of NZ English AS A WHOLE - not just old folks' talk, or teenage talk. Needs a good prune. Kahuroa 19:10, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
I note that Australian English looks a lot more professional than ours does because they have created a separate article Australian words to take the list of words and phrases. On this model I have created a New Zealand words article and have moved the list there. It is a bit raw in terms of introduction etc at the moment Kahuroa 02:36, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
I wonder about this so-called 'distinctive pronunciation' of South Island Māori, in which Oamaru is said 'Om-a-roo' - has this come from a linguist source or is it politically correct revisionism? It seems strange that this 'distinctive' pronunciation is identical phonotactically to English, has incorporated English phonemes, and appears to disregard the usually conservative nature of Polynesian vowels. Raises questions about why South Island Māori manuscripts of the 19th century, (written by South Island Māori) appear pretty normal in the representation of vowels etc. 'Om-a-roo' suggests also that syllables could end with a consonant in the middle of a word, again an English feature Kahuroa 20:09, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
Cheers. The apparent dropping of final vowels is a feature of Māori generally though, not just S.I, tho I associate it more with older speakers. I think Margaret Mutu describes it as the whispering of final vowels rather than true apocope. Is it a placenames-only feature in the South Is? We should really get IPA into use here too re coma vs comma. Let me know if you come across a linguist's analysis Kahuroa 19:55, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
A recent change to this article makes me wonder: Does NZ English use the word maize or corn (or both). Rmhermen 00:54, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
As maize is grown and used primarily as cattle feed the average kiwi sees maize growing in the fields but eats corn at home! Im sure these are two different crops.
I reckon the article needs to mention the expression "Is it what!", meaning "Yes, it most certainly is!". This seems to me to be a typical New Zealand expression, notable as it has confused more than one foreigner, since it sounds like a question. My experience:
Me: "It's cold today."
A New Zealander: "Is it what!"
Me: "Cold."
A New Zealander: "Yes, I heard you. I was agreeing with you."
I'm just not sure what part of the article to put this on. Any suggestions?
-- Daniel 05:55, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
Another thing that I have noticed living here, and which is definitely a trait of the pronunciation of certina er... rural New Zealanders, is a strange sort of diphthongisation of long vowels. The most prominent one is the long O, as in "no". Rather than pronounce it as a nearly-pure vowel with a slight "w" glide at the end, they pronounce it as a diphthong which I'd be tempted to say is a long O followed by a hard R, or a long O followed by a short I, depending on the person.
Additionally, the long I becomes the diphthong O+I for some speakers. This is a trait shared with some Australian speakers (think of Kath Day Knight saying "that's noice"), but definitely a lot of New Zealanders as well.
Sometimes the long E becomes a diphthong composed of short U and long I -- "speak" pronounced "spuyk".
I've also heard long A and U pronounced a bit particularly, but not quite as much as diphthongs to my ear.
-- Daniel 06:19, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Manual of Style (spelling) would have one believe that NZ, contrary to all other English-speaking countries, spells vice as vise even when the meaning is "fault". Is this true? If so, it should be mentioned in this article. If not, it should be removed from the other. — Blotwell 01:12, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
I have deleted the supposed "American influence" affecting 'more' and 'sure'. This is wrong, as New Zealanders and Australians say more and sure the same way.
Why is New Zealand Sign Language listed (but not discussed), whereas other countires with sign languages do not have their respective sign languages listed on their main Wik pages? Kdammers 06:39, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
In the section on rising inflection, it says that New Zealanders sometimes do this at the end of a sentence in response to a question. I'd say that it's not only in response to a question, but to emphasise a statement as well. Section amended. 203.97.173.115 19:38, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
This sentence, "Below the latter word is how the former word sounds to the ears of a non-New Zealander:" is really confusing. Does anyone agree it needs to be simplified? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.8.115.11 ( talk) 08:54, 16 April 2007 (UTC).
My observation is that the use of dairy describing a corner type of shop has been declining and displaced by the generic description convenience store. This is particularly acute in places like Auckland and Christchurch as brands like Star Mart shun the established term and new shops are started by immigrants from countries like South Korea, mainland China, and Taiwan, which use American spellings. It lingers on at smaller centres and older shops owned by Kiwis or Indian immigrants but IMHO it may entirely disappear within a decade. -- JNZ 21:06, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
"others may misinterpret the speech of New Zealanders because they pronounce their vowels differently due to their accent, but this must be distinguished from the (false) claim that New Zealanders do not speak properly."
There's something funny about that statement. I mean, I laugh when I read it. This may be in part from being a NZ'er who does not in fact, speak properly or just the bolded part being inherently funny but these ideas of "false claim" and "properly" seem awfully subjective. In any case this statement seems like it could be generalized to nearly any accent except maybe
English English which is presumably the benchmark for "properness".
Are there english accents which are widely considered non-proper, for example American or Scottish, while NZ english masqearudes as proper english?--
BlakeKeltic
01:33, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
I added a pronunciation key, a simplified version of the NZE part of IPA chart for English. As noted on the talk page for that page the source is a page I found on the web. Ben Arnold 17:50, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
I think that the reason some non-Kiwis interpret this dialect as a "murmur" is some of the vowel sounds. The one that sticks out to me is the sound in words like "kick", "rich" and "sit". This sound shifts to sound more like a schwa. A schwa is sort of an indistinct sound. New Zealand English thus has more schwa-like sounds than any other dialect of English that I can think of right now. I am open to other thoughts. 208.104.45.20 ( talk) 05:28, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
IPA would be fine if every computer could cope with it—it appears as a string of little squares on mine. (Copey)
Incidentally, does anyone know why this article isn't listed in the alphabetical list at All articles? Copey 2 03:11, 5 March 2006 (UTC) (=Copey)
Take a look at this page: http://new-zealand.asinah.net/en/wikipedia/n/ne/new_zealand_english.html
This article seems to have started as a copy of the page linked above. That's bad because the page in question includes this text: "Copyright 1995 - 2004 United Dragon Holdings Inc. All Rights Reserved."
We're not talking about the same ideas. We're talking about paragraphs word for word, even including links.
Maybe the non-Wiki site stole our content? Or are we using it in violation of their rights?
However, this American is going to remain unconvinced until you lazy .au and .nz sods get off your duffs and document them here.
I think people have done a good job on this page. I would add some borrowed Maori words myself but it is a bit of challenge for a Brit to turn a list of borrowed words from a page like this into something that does not invalidate the author's copyright. -- Artistole
I've added a description of the pronunciation of "dance". Someone should check whether my description matches the samples I've uploaded to "Pronunciation" at http://briefcase.yahoo.com/careyevans/. -- Carey Evans
There's lots more material here now. Still to add is some mention of non-Maori New Zealand words, like bach and crib, though this is more difficult for me since I don't have the perspective to know which are actually unique to NZ. If someone adds the words, I'll define them. -- Carey Evans
'Port' is only used for schoolbag in some Australian states (e.g. I think Queensland.) In NSW and Victoria (Hey! -and Tassie!!! - MB) (and W.A. - Mark Ryan) people say schoolbag, same as Kiwis do. -- SJK
Taken this from list of words unique to NZ and australia, since it's also used in Britain -- AdamW
mate: Buddy or pal, the same as Australian English.
An anonymous user writes:
I'm not so sure about this; some dialects of English would roll that R, and NZers hardly even pronouce R's when they are there. OTOH, I don't think I pronounce "pasta" properly, either.
I'll try again with "car", which most pages seem to use for that vowel sound.
-- Carey Evans, 2002-02-03
"Taught properly" indeed! Chance vs charnce is optional in Australian English. Charnce is used by nearly all South Australians, most denizens of Toorak and Vaucluse and Paddington, and a good smattering of others from all over, NSW in particular. Rough guess: 70% of Australians say "chance". Yes, and some of us even had educations! Oh, and one more difference in usage to list: dairy vs milk bar.
It's interesting to see how many words Oz and Kiwi English have in common - more than I'd have thought until I stopped to ponder and read the examples in this and a couple of related entries. It's not so surprising that words like bush have made the trans-Tasman journey, but it is surprising to realise how many Maori words are quite familiar to this Aussie boy. Tannin
Ozdaren 15:25, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
Re: Swimming costume. In the southern states of Austraila, "cossie" is understood but never used. The term "bathers" refers to the bathing costumes of both men and women, and includes specific types such as Speedos and bikinis.
Can somebody tell me the origins of 2 specific usages:-
[1]....many Kiwis, especially in the rural sector, will nearly always answer a question with a contradiction, e.g.
[Q]"do you think this horse is a good bet?"
[A]...yeah, no...she's a good bet"
Why say "Yes" immediately followed by a "No".
[2]....many Kiwis ask a question twice, e.g.
"..are you going to the City, are you?"
Why say "are you" twice?
thanks
With regard to the second of the two questions earlier, I point out that the question is not "are you going to the city, eh?" but "you're going the city, eh?", though in context the you're can be omitted (thus "going to the city, eh?"). The "eh?" is never pronounced with a rise of pitch towards the end, it is only used for confirmation. The question isn't asked twice. Compare:
That is the usage of "eh?". Neonumbers
Are NZers the only people to use "no..yeah?" Maybe they are in English, but the Germans use it also nicht ja? Very much doubt there's any connection, though. Grutness| hello? 07:29, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)
re: the eh at end of sentences, ive lived in NZ all my life and always thought that it was more of an aye, not so much an 'e' sound Itsawayoflife 09:24, 20 September 2006 (UTC)its a way of life
So what do New Zealanders/Kiwis call the kiwifruit? China gooseberry? jengod 08:01, Jan 16, 2004 (UTC)
kiwifruit of course, after all we invented them. ping 08:05, 16 Jan 2004 (UTC)
Wait. I must be dumb. Is this part of the article a joke on ignorant merkins?: "The use of kiwi to refer to kiwifruit is not part of New Zealand English and will irritate many New Zealanders."
Oh, and New Zealanders don't call New Zealanders Kiwis very often either. It's mostly a term used by ads, television anchors, and friendly foreigners. Ben Arnold 13:37, 6 Jun 2004 (UTC)
kiwis call themselves kiwis Itsawayoflife 09:22, 20 September 2006 (UTC)itsawayoflife
The page likens Swanndri (NZ) to Driza-Bone (Oz), saying they are the quintessential back-country farmer's jacket of each country, a woollen shirt and oilskin jacket respectively. The Sou' Wester oilskin coat in NZ is the same as the Driza-Bone, not the Swanndri. Sou' Westers are still widely used, especially on horseback . Moriori 22:42, Jan 26, 2004 (UTC)
Comparing Swanndri against Drizabone is more to do with culture than language—they're not different words for the same thing. The Drizabone in NZ is a knee- or calf-length coat rather than a jacket—unless the word jacket can refer to longer garments in other dialects. Both words are trade-names in any case. The original Swanndri (I've occasionally heard "Swanny") was manufactured in Waitara, Taranaki by John Mack & Co, though I think it was later taken over by a larger company. I doubt that the word was extended to other brands. I'm not sure if John Mack still exists.—Copey, Jan 19, 2006
What about the "Affco Nightie'? Is it widespread enough to be worth a mention? ping 08:24, 27 Apr 2004 (UTC)
Plastic meatworks issue raincoat? There are various different brands of oilskin "parkas" popular in NZ - a top-end example equivalent to Driza-Bone in its being sold in trendy city shops (as opposed to just being sold in farm or maritime supply stores) is Backhouse from Wanganui.
JohnGH 01:58, 04 Jan 2006 (GMT) :o)
Coming from South Australia the most common name I have heard for an oiled water-proof jacket/coat is an oilskin coat or even stockman's coat. driza-bone is a brand name. RM Williams is located in Prospect an inner Adelaide Suburb and of course they don't use the other company's brand name. Sou'wester would be considered old fashioned (the sort of thing your grandparents might wear). Ozdaren 15:15, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
What the hell is a "milkbar" supposed to be, in Australia? Is it a dairy? Lacrimosus 02:56, 24 Jun 2004 (UTC)
A milkbar is a small convenience store where you can buy things like chips (both the hot and cold varieties), newspapers, drinks, pies and other assorted things. They used to sell milkshakes too, though many who still call themselves milkbars dont.
See here milk bar. Asa01 22:40, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
Its used only in Victoria. In SA, they are called "delis" Frances76 05:53, 28 January 2006 (UTC)
I deleted the last sentence from:
""Kia Ora", literally "be healthy", is now a standard New Zealand greeting. In Māori situations it is often used after someone has spoken meaning "Have you got that?" or possibly "Do you agree with me?" but this has not extended to general use."
It is used by listeners to acknowledge or support a speaker in Maori situations. Actually I'm not sure it's a standard New Zealand greeting either given the current kerfuffle over its use on the tv news. Nurg 11:13, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Put in a little bit about this phenomenon of the 'l' changing to a 'w' and also the 'i' or 'iu' becoming a 'u' sound as in build (buwd). Don't know how common it is in New Zealand other than Auckland mainly with the younger generation although not limited to and usually only people in south Aucks. Although it's little rough and not using correct terminology.-- Hekaz 11:18, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)
I think the l-dropping phenomenon, which I've heard even among educated kiwis, arises from the fact that in New Zealand English, lip-rounded vowels are pronounced differently if l follows. The vowel in school is a high back vowel, while that in scoot is a high central one. Similarly, the diphthong in coal consists of a middle back vowel gliding into a high back one, while that in coat consists of a low to lower-mid central vowel gliding into a high central one. If the l is dropped, the vowel sound still conveys the impression of a following dark l, even to the ears of a non-l-dropping kiwi. In these instances, l is dropped rather than replaced with w. When l follows a non-lip-rounded vowel, l-droppers replace it with a high back lip-rounded vowel sound. It is probably misleading to represent this as w, as the consonantal w does not involve the raising of the back of the tongue in NZ English. —Copey
New Zealand English close to Australian English?? Really? They're completely different, or does it just sound like that to me because I'm a New Zealander? Neonumbers 09:04, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC)
The sound different to me also but Northern Hemisphere English speakers insist that they sound very similar. I guess we have to learn to live with that. ping 07:14, 25 Nov 2004 (UTC)
The example list of accurate Māori pronunciations compared to Anglicised ones is ambiguous. The columns need to be labelled! 203.220.42.164 08:22, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
I've removed Kawarau's ka-worra pronunciation from this list, because it isn't a false anglicised pronunciation - it's a southern Maori dialect pronunciation. The spelling with the final "u" resulted from it being written down by Scots - it probably should have been spelt Kawara. Grutness| hello?
That's part of the southern dialect - compare the one in the (real) pronunciation of Oamaru. Remember the Scots also misheard "Kirimoko" as "Kilmog", again with the "hot" O. Compare also Hokitika's pronunciation. The O can be short in Southern Maori. Grutness| hello? 23:48, 23 Jan 2005 (UTC)
h2g2 has quite an extensive list at [1] - could be a basis for a few extra entries in our list. dramatic 08:42, 23 Jan 2005 (UTC)
I can't help but wondering if the sections in this article are the right way round. An article on NZ english starts with a detailed discussion of Maori, then goes into Maori influence (which is what the previous sections were about). I'd keep the Maori section near the top, and would also split the first section (i.e., the introductory four paragraphs) up, and suggest the following reorder:
Introduction:
Grutness| hello? 23:10, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)
I'll give it a week or so to see if anyone objects, but if others think it's a good diea too, then I'll swap things around. Grutness| hello?
Update. Done. Comments, bouquets, brickbats? Grutness| hello? 06:54, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)
I thought the word in Maori that asks "is that not so?" was "ne" not "nei". It's used in at least two places in the article. Can anyone confirm either way? Ben Arnold 09:06, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)
in your section 'Spelling' you state -ize is UK english.
You are absolutely wrong. -ise is the overwhelmingly common ending here in the UK, the ending -ize is an american invention.
Whereas we write 'burgled', and americans would say 'burglarized'. By further illustration UK is 'sodomised' but US is 'sodomized'. It is a horrible clumsy adaptation and universally ignored in the UK. Unless you can justify your claim I will be forced to edit the article to remove this calumny against my native language :-P
As in a velar trill? Sure these weren't French settlers? Alai 06:28, 29 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Really? If asked which was the predominant term in NZ, I'd judge that they are about equal. Some supermarkets call them courgettes, some zuchinnis, ditto fruiterers and locally published recipies. Restaurants seem to favour Zuchinni - maybe because Italian cuisine is more fashionable than French these days. So even if zuchinni is the predominant form in Oz, I don't think a contrast is warranted. dramatic 10:07, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Newzild (a play on the 'lazy' pronunciation of New Zealand by some speakers) is a colloquial name for New Zealand speech, maybe heard less often now than in the 1970's and 1980's. It was also the title of a short humorous book, a companion to "Les Stalk Strine", which spoofed Australian English. If I can find my copy I'll post publication details. dramatic 03:25, 7 May 2005 (UTC)
There's an article ( International Phonetic Alphabet for English) that describes the differences between General American, General Australian and Received Pronunciation. Can any one who knows linguistics update this article to include New Zealand pronunciation?
I have a lot of trouble understanding IPA because all the examples for the symbols are in accents that don't match mine. (I remember an American telling me the a in Java was like the o in hot, when they really meant something closer to the u in hut.) Ben Arnold 01:06, 11 May 2005 (UTC)
I discovered this when I stumbled upon the fjord article and thought, "oh yeah, someone's decided to be politically correct and use the non-anglicised form". After a bit of googling I found out that the rest of the world seems to hold to that crazy j:
versus
Ben Arnold 12:11, 16 May 2005 (UTC)
I must confess the NZ results surprise me. As a kiwi I would only use the spelling "fiord" or the 2-syllable pronunciation (emphasis on i)_ in reference to the Fiordland ones, and even then, I'm more likely to call them sounds. In The Salmon of Doubt, a posthumous edition of collected Douglas Adams pieces, the spelling Fjordland (quite likely not Adams's) appears (page 44). Copey 2 02:43, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
This is my first attempt based on the reading and listening I've been doing. I'm hoping it will form the basis for a discussion here that can make its way into the text.
The Received Pronounciation, General American and General Australian sounds I've got from International Phonetic Alphabet for English.
A
E
I
O
U
Here are links to a couple of diagrams for New Zealand English
Monophthongs and
Diphthongs.
Could you list your references? –
AxSkov (
T)
12:15, 22 May 2005 (UTC)
I've just added a section (Lack of distinction between /ɒ/ and /ʌ/), but I too know very little IPA, so I'd be grateful if someone else could check that I haven't made a mess of it! Cheers - Grutness... wha? 14:00, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC).
In Australia, about the only thing you call small cabined vehicles with trays on them is by the term "Ute" which is not what is stated in the article (claims that Aussies don't use the word Ute). If you said 'Utility' to me, i would assume you were a US person.
Although it's true some nz-ers will make the i sound like a u (even to me and possibly other native kiwis), it's not the norm and most of us will consider the proper pronunciation to be the "schwa" sound. the pronunciation of "i" as something close to a "u" is somtimes done for humorous effect e.g. chevaunes barbie character in serial stuff (in the tv show "what now")
The use of the word 'patu' is a borrowing from Maori. It has 2 meanings;
A. A Maori fighting club.
B. A slang term meaning 'rubbish'.
- ( Aidan Work 05:41, 5 December 2005 (UTC))
I clicked on the hoki link in this page and found it redirects to the Hoki Province page. Should hoki by itself be a disambiguation page?
I was thrilled a few days before Christmas 2005 to find Hoki on sale in Tesco in Nitra, but stunned when I checked the label to find that it was from Argentina and not from GodZone. :-(
After some Googling tonight I find theirs is Macruronus magellanicus, not Macruronus novaezelandiae. This left me wondering - is hoki *really* a Maori name - can anyone trace its origin? - in Australia it's Blue Grenadier and also Blue Hake.
- ( JohnGH 02:30, 4 Jan 2006 (GMT))
The hoki fish had nothing to do with Selwyn Toogood's cry of "By hokey!". It roughly meant "goodness gracious!" or "my word!" or somesuch. This link here is one of many google results which shows it in context. Uncommon today though. Cheers Moriori 22:41, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
Before adding words to the vocabulary secton, please do a bit of research:
dramatic 08:10, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
Matters I would prefer a qualified linguist to comment on--
w vs wh—Many kiwis distinguish these, though some of us older ones were taught to do so at school. Not as universal as in Scotland, but what is the status of a distinct wh phoneme here?
u and ou? — In NZ English the vowel in school, differs from that in scoot. Similarly the diphthong in coal differs from that in coat--see my comment further down under 'Milk'. It's the following dark l that makes the difference. Australians don't split the u phoneme; I'm not sure about ou. Do any other dialects make this distinction?
In TV news and weather reports, the word the followed by a vowel is frequently pronounced with schwa, followed by a glottal stop, rather than as "thee" (sorry, can't do IPA), and gliding into the vowel. Can anyone comment on how widespread this is, with reference to age, region and possibly gender?—Copey
Would be good to add a comment about references to the islands of NZ—always the North Island and the South Island, unless used attributively—a number of South Island farmers... etc. Also the use of in rather than on to express location on the two main islands—in the North Island, in the South Island, but on Stewart Island, on Great Barrier Island
Do people still use the term Newzild? It used to be used deliberately and facetiously to refer to the perceived sloppiness of NZ speech. It derives from a small humorous book that came out in the late 1960s called Newzild and how to speak it, which cashed in, with some success, on the popularity (even in NZ) of its earlier Australian counterpart, Let Stalk Strine. (Sorry, don't know the names of the respective authors)—Copey
I'm pretty sure it was in widespread use even in the 70s, and still is today. I'll try to find some sources if I can. Grutness... wha? 02:05, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
BTW, given that Newzild redirects here, the term should be mentioned on the page (per Wikipedia:Redirects#What needs to be done on pages that are targets of redirects?). I'm sure it used to be mentioned in the first paragraph - I've put it back (feel free to revert if you think it's unnecessary). Grutness... wha? 06:47, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
I lived briefly in Rotorua and remember schoolkids using the slang word "ehau" or "ehor" in place of "mate", "friend" or "mister" when addressing someone directly, perhaps when being a little in-yer-face. This was in the early 1960s, so precise usage is difficult to recall, but I don't believe I dreamt it. Anyone comment? Folks at 137 22:55, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for this, perhaps Alzheimer's is further away than the kids think. Also: We used "neat" to mean modern "cool" or "really good". (It's all coming back to me!) I'd add these to the article but, given the comments above, "Criteria for Vocabulary", I'm hesitant to be bold. Wait for encouragement. Folks at 137 23:30, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
Am I the only one who thinks of 'e hoa' as two words? ping 08:02, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
It is my understanding that Samuel Butler did not name his high country sheep station "Erewhon" but that another runholder named his station "Erewhon" in honour of the novel Butler wrote. Butler's station was "Mesopotamia". Both stations still exist under those names both in the Canterbury High Country one in the Rakaia watershed and the other in the Rangitata. I think this is common knowledge. Can anyone verify?
When I was younger it was common for pakeha kiwis to say "Hurray!" when saying "Good-bye" and in fact I still use it from time to time but younger people do not. I used to say it when I lived for a time in England and afterwards wondered what people thought I meant. I believe it probably originated from the Maori "Haere ra". ??? Any ideas
I'd like to suggest that the "Unique words and phrases" section be moved out into its own article (with a name like List of New Zealand English words and phrases). It's getting pretty long and unqieldy where it is, and it's poorly headed, too, since many of the words there aren't unique but are shared with Australia or the UK. Grutness... wha? 00:42, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
I have moved the long lists of Maori words used in NZ English to a separate article Māori influence on New Zealand English. I started that article to take a nearly identical list that I took out of the article Māori language where its relevance was peripheral to the subject of that article. Kahuroa 04:10, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
Do Kiwis really call a mobile phone a cellphone, as per "Vocabulary differences" in the article? I recall they were called that years ago when they first came out, but these days, isn't mobile phone the norm? Example: that little girl in the Telecom ad who say she is going to ring someone on her mobile. Moriori 22:17, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
It's not a real biggie, but I can't for the life of me remember any of my friends/acquaintances/colleagues actually using "cellphone". It's mobile all the way. Cheers. Moriori 07:13, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
In auckland i usually hear mobile being used, but sometimes its just plain old phone "where's my ohone?". Thats usually just when its obvious it could only be a mobile. never cellphone Itsawayoflife 09:31, 20 September 2006 (UTC)its a way of life
This whole section needs pruning. If these phrases are used in New Zealand, they are regionalisms, and not particularly characteristic of New Zealand English generally. I am a New Zealander, and I am not familar with many of them. Nor is the collection anywhere close to being comprehensive. It's just filler. A few more carefully chosen, characteristic examples would be much better.
To rark up seems to be New Zealand English slang. I don't know any origins, so adding it would be original research, but if anyone has sources, adding a few lines about it would be nice. -- Gerrit C U T E D H 12:03, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
This has developed into a Very Silly List. A great many of them are described as shared with other forms of English. That means they aren't distinctive or particularly characteristic of NZ English. So why are they here. A lot of the rest are outdated or just plain slang. To be listed on this page, words should be CHARACTERISTIC of NZ English AS A WHOLE - not just old folks' talk, or teenage talk. Needs a good prune. Kahuroa 19:10, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
I note that Australian English looks a lot more professional than ours does because they have created a separate article Australian words to take the list of words and phrases. On this model I have created a New Zealand words article and have moved the list there. It is a bit raw in terms of introduction etc at the moment Kahuroa 02:36, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
I wonder about this so-called 'distinctive pronunciation' of South Island Māori, in which Oamaru is said 'Om-a-roo' - has this come from a linguist source or is it politically correct revisionism? It seems strange that this 'distinctive' pronunciation is identical phonotactically to English, has incorporated English phonemes, and appears to disregard the usually conservative nature of Polynesian vowels. Raises questions about why South Island Māori manuscripts of the 19th century, (written by South Island Māori) appear pretty normal in the representation of vowels etc. 'Om-a-roo' suggests also that syllables could end with a consonant in the middle of a word, again an English feature Kahuroa 20:09, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
Cheers. The apparent dropping of final vowels is a feature of Māori generally though, not just S.I, tho I associate it more with older speakers. I think Margaret Mutu describes it as the whispering of final vowels rather than true apocope. Is it a placenames-only feature in the South Is? We should really get IPA into use here too re coma vs comma. Let me know if you come across a linguist's analysis Kahuroa 19:55, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
A recent change to this article makes me wonder: Does NZ English use the word maize or corn (or both). Rmhermen 00:54, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
As maize is grown and used primarily as cattle feed the average kiwi sees maize growing in the fields but eats corn at home! Im sure these are two different crops.
I reckon the article needs to mention the expression "Is it what!", meaning "Yes, it most certainly is!". This seems to me to be a typical New Zealand expression, notable as it has confused more than one foreigner, since it sounds like a question. My experience:
Me: "It's cold today."
A New Zealander: "Is it what!"
Me: "Cold."
A New Zealander: "Yes, I heard you. I was agreeing with you."
I'm just not sure what part of the article to put this on. Any suggestions?
-- Daniel 05:55, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
Another thing that I have noticed living here, and which is definitely a trait of the pronunciation of certina er... rural New Zealanders, is a strange sort of diphthongisation of long vowels. The most prominent one is the long O, as in "no". Rather than pronounce it as a nearly-pure vowel with a slight "w" glide at the end, they pronounce it as a diphthong which I'd be tempted to say is a long O followed by a hard R, or a long O followed by a short I, depending on the person.
Additionally, the long I becomes the diphthong O+I for some speakers. This is a trait shared with some Australian speakers (think of Kath Day Knight saying "that's noice"), but definitely a lot of New Zealanders as well.
Sometimes the long E becomes a diphthong composed of short U and long I -- "speak" pronounced "spuyk".
I've also heard long A and U pronounced a bit particularly, but not quite as much as diphthongs to my ear.
-- Daniel 06:19, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Manual of Style (spelling) would have one believe that NZ, contrary to all other English-speaking countries, spells vice as vise even when the meaning is "fault". Is this true? If so, it should be mentioned in this article. If not, it should be removed from the other. — Blotwell 01:12, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
I have deleted the supposed "American influence" affecting 'more' and 'sure'. This is wrong, as New Zealanders and Australians say more and sure the same way.
Why is New Zealand Sign Language listed (but not discussed), whereas other countires with sign languages do not have their respective sign languages listed on their main Wik pages? Kdammers 06:39, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
In the section on rising inflection, it says that New Zealanders sometimes do this at the end of a sentence in response to a question. I'd say that it's not only in response to a question, but to emphasise a statement as well. Section amended. 203.97.173.115 19:38, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
This sentence, "Below the latter word is how the former word sounds to the ears of a non-New Zealander:" is really confusing. Does anyone agree it needs to be simplified? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.8.115.11 ( talk) 08:54, 16 April 2007 (UTC).
My observation is that the use of dairy describing a corner type of shop has been declining and displaced by the generic description convenience store. This is particularly acute in places like Auckland and Christchurch as brands like Star Mart shun the established term and new shops are started by immigrants from countries like South Korea, mainland China, and Taiwan, which use American spellings. It lingers on at smaller centres and older shops owned by Kiwis or Indian immigrants but IMHO it may entirely disappear within a decade. -- JNZ 21:06, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
"others may misinterpret the speech of New Zealanders because they pronounce their vowels differently due to their accent, but this must be distinguished from the (false) claim that New Zealanders do not speak properly."
There's something funny about that statement. I mean, I laugh when I read it. This may be in part from being a NZ'er who does not in fact, speak properly or just the bolded part being inherently funny but these ideas of "false claim" and "properly" seem awfully subjective. In any case this statement seems like it could be generalized to nearly any accent except maybe
English English which is presumably the benchmark for "properness".
Are there english accents which are widely considered non-proper, for example American or Scottish, while NZ english masqearudes as proper english?--
BlakeKeltic
01:33, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
I added a pronunciation key, a simplified version of the NZE part of IPA chart for English. As noted on the talk page for that page the source is a page I found on the web. Ben Arnold 17:50, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
I think that the reason some non-Kiwis interpret this dialect as a "murmur" is some of the vowel sounds. The one that sticks out to me is the sound in words like "kick", "rich" and "sit". This sound shifts to sound more like a schwa. A schwa is sort of an indistinct sound. New Zealand English thus has more schwa-like sounds than any other dialect of English that I can think of right now. I am open to other thoughts. 208.104.45.20 ( talk) 05:28, 24 December 2007 (UTC)