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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 27 August 2020 and 18 November 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Jillyoung2. Peer reviewers: 2020tibbwg.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 01:35, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
Anyone know how to move the chart over to the right side of the page, to allow text wrapping? Wolfdog ( talk) 18:45, 28 May 2017 (UTC)
@ LakeKayak: AFAIK transcriptions such as [ɒɚ] do not denote disyllabic sequences but diphthongs with a non-syllabic rhotacized schwa. The non-syllabic diacritic is dropped for simplicity, and it may be an overly narrow transcription (and a confusing one indeed; there's also the plain rhotacized schwa [ɚ] which is written the same). If it's relevant, in my transcriptions I write the non-syllabic [ɚ] as [ɹ] and the syllabic [ɚ] as [ɹ̩] - then again, I tend to simplify my transcriptions whenever possible. On the other hand though, we should follow the sources. I think [ɹ] for the non-syllabic sound and [ɚ] for the syllabic one is the way to go. Mr KEBAB ( talk) 15:11, 29 May 2017 (UTC)
Is there any good reason to move (or not to move) the "Notable speakers" section of New York City English to this page? Wolfdog ( talk) 16:32, 29 May 2017 (UTC)
@ LakeKayak: I'm not sure if "verification needed" is the correct template to use for your concern. Perhaps it's my fault and I should have put the direct link to the page within that website. 15 tokens of /l/ are presented in the linked set of audio recordings of a traditional male NYC speaker, and all fifteen are transcribed (and obviously audibly realized as) the "dark" [ɫ]. All the tokens are in initial or final position.
Also, Wells specifically says "Many New Yorkers pronounce the alveolar consonants /t, d, n, l/ with the blade of the tongue rather than the tip" (515). This is literally all that is said about /l/ on that page. It says nothing at all about the absence of dark L and even at best it only accounts for "many New Yorkers". Therefore, the statement on this WP page that "Wells report [sic] a lack of velarization of the initial /l/" appears to be untrue. Wolfdog ( talk) 23:39, 29 May 2017 (UTC)
I'm sorry, Wolfdog. I thought that that edit only encompassed two changes, changing the lead and text-wrapping. I made a mistake.
I specifically thought the text-wrapping made the page harder to read. LakeKayak ( talk) 23:12, 7 June 2017 (UTC)
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Kbb2, why are you reverting even at this level of understandable specificity?? This is a specific dialect page, not just a broad article about American English. It's the one unassailable place to keep a transcription at its narrowest: the exact pronunciation of an exact dialect's phoneme! The abstract range represented by this or that symbol are not what's at issue here. Wolfdog ( talk) 13:05, 20 April 2019 (UTC)
@ Ajd: I live in Dutchess County. It is the standard accent here. I lived in Saratoga county, above Albany. It can commonly be heard there, spoken by people who were born and raised in the region. The accent can be heard throughout eastern New York. The blanket statement in the article is inaccurate. 021120x ( talk) 12:53, 25 June 2021 (UTC)
I notice that BATH and (non-rhotic) SQUARE are both transcribed as [ɛə]. Is this to imply that they're phonemically merged /ɛə/? Tyrui ( talk) 20:59, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
When short-a is split into tense and lax classes, the tense class rises along the front periphery as an ingliding vowel /æh/, which merges with the mid (and high) ingliding vowels that have developed from the vocalized /ihr/ and /ehr/ word-classes. The words bad and bared become homonyms. With more extreme raising of /æh/, this homonymy can extend to include beard.Wolfdog ( talk) 13:31, 13 June 2023 (UTC)
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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It is requested that an image or photograph of New York accent be
included in this article to
improve its quality. Please replace this template with a more specific
media request template where possible.
Wikipedians in New York City may be able to help! The Free Image Search Tool or Openverse Creative Commons Search may be able to locate suitable images on Flickr and other web sites. |
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 27 August 2020 and 18 November 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Jillyoung2. Peer reviewers: 2020tibbwg.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 01:35, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
Anyone know how to move the chart over to the right side of the page, to allow text wrapping? Wolfdog ( talk) 18:45, 28 May 2017 (UTC)
@ LakeKayak: AFAIK transcriptions such as [ɒɚ] do not denote disyllabic sequences but diphthongs with a non-syllabic rhotacized schwa. The non-syllabic diacritic is dropped for simplicity, and it may be an overly narrow transcription (and a confusing one indeed; there's also the plain rhotacized schwa [ɚ] which is written the same). If it's relevant, in my transcriptions I write the non-syllabic [ɚ] as [ɹ] and the syllabic [ɚ] as [ɹ̩] - then again, I tend to simplify my transcriptions whenever possible. On the other hand though, we should follow the sources. I think [ɹ] for the non-syllabic sound and [ɚ] for the syllabic one is the way to go. Mr KEBAB ( talk) 15:11, 29 May 2017 (UTC)
Is there any good reason to move (or not to move) the "Notable speakers" section of New York City English to this page? Wolfdog ( talk) 16:32, 29 May 2017 (UTC)
@ LakeKayak: I'm not sure if "verification needed" is the correct template to use for your concern. Perhaps it's my fault and I should have put the direct link to the page within that website. 15 tokens of /l/ are presented in the linked set of audio recordings of a traditional male NYC speaker, and all fifteen are transcribed (and obviously audibly realized as) the "dark" [ɫ]. All the tokens are in initial or final position.
Also, Wells specifically says "Many New Yorkers pronounce the alveolar consonants /t, d, n, l/ with the blade of the tongue rather than the tip" (515). This is literally all that is said about /l/ on that page. It says nothing at all about the absence of dark L and even at best it only accounts for "many New Yorkers". Therefore, the statement on this WP page that "Wells report [sic] a lack of velarization of the initial /l/" appears to be untrue. Wolfdog ( talk) 23:39, 29 May 2017 (UTC)
I'm sorry, Wolfdog. I thought that that edit only encompassed two changes, changing the lead and text-wrapping. I made a mistake.
I specifically thought the text-wrapping made the page harder to read. LakeKayak ( talk) 23:12, 7 June 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on New York accent. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
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have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 15:44, 17 February 2018 (UTC)
Kbb2, why are you reverting even at this level of understandable specificity?? This is a specific dialect page, not just a broad article about American English. It's the one unassailable place to keep a transcription at its narrowest: the exact pronunciation of an exact dialect's phoneme! The abstract range represented by this or that symbol are not what's at issue here. Wolfdog ( talk) 13:05, 20 April 2019 (UTC)
@ Ajd: I live in Dutchess County. It is the standard accent here. I lived in Saratoga county, above Albany. It can commonly be heard there, spoken by people who were born and raised in the region. The accent can be heard throughout eastern New York. The blanket statement in the article is inaccurate. 021120x ( talk) 12:53, 25 June 2021 (UTC)
I notice that BATH and (non-rhotic) SQUARE are both transcribed as [ɛə]. Is this to imply that they're phonemically merged /ɛə/? Tyrui ( talk) 20:59, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
When short-a is split into tense and lax classes, the tense class rises along the front periphery as an ingliding vowel /æh/, which merges with the mid (and high) ingliding vowels that have developed from the vocalized /ihr/ and /ehr/ word-classes. The words bad and bared become homonyms. With more extreme raising of /æh/, this homonymy can extend to include beard.Wolfdog ( talk) 13:31, 13 June 2023 (UTC)