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Why is this box on the Metro North New Haven Line page? Jd2718 03:51, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
The lead of this article is written about New Haven Line trackage. Is there a reason to believe that readers will come here looking for trackage info, and not service info? Otherwise, "The New Haven Line runs from New Haven, Connecticut, southwest to Grand Central Terminal." Jd2718 03:55, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
The user who deleted the line about West Haven and Orange being the only two towns Metro-North runs through without stations acknowledged that it is factually true, but said there are only a few hundred yards running through Orange. I don't see that as particularly relevant; service is not based on how long the track is, but on how convenient it is to the nearby residents. The station would be near a major north-south road serving Orange. Since they are planning to build an Orange station, someone must think it's justified. Therefore I see no reason to delete this sentence. InkQuill 19:03, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
I don't see anything in [1] backing up the assertion that West Haven and Orange had sought stations or that they were being planned there because those towns lack stations. -- NE2 14:28, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
Could we have a source? Jd2718 02:54, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
The idea that Metro-North is going to take over Shore Line East is at best speculative. Neither the governor's budget proposal nor press reports of legislators' press conference Feb. 8 make any mention of such a proposal. If you have information beyond this, please cite sources. InkQuill 03:49, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
Why isn't a line about this within the scope of this article? The council is specifically concerned with the New Haven Line of Metro-North. I find this explanation for deletion inadequate. InkQuill 03:56, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
The infobox has forced the first section to the below its bottom. I mistook the cause of the problem, but reversion is no solution to ugliness. DCDuring 20:21, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
It isn't perfect, but it's better, IMHO. DCDuring 20:24, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
The problem appeared to be with the image not being in the lead AND defaulting or being forced right, but I'm still not 100% sure. Recommended style WP:MOS has images alternating right and left. You are right about infoboxes, though. I don't think they CAN be positioned left. DCDuring 20:30, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
The picture which identifies the New Haven Line at Stamford is incorrect. That station is New Haven, and the train is the Shoreline East. It should be removed. Yaletiger ( talk) 14:41, 26 January 2010 (UTC)
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Here's a 2015 AutoCAD-made Metro North Track and Structures Dept book of Track Charts, Interlocking Diagrams and Yard Diagrams - http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/2647944-Operations-Metro-North-Railroad-Track-Charts.html As you can see there is a direct link to the PDF as well if that works better. Hope it's of use. I'm not very good at adding citations, nor did I write any of the article as of yet. 2601:19A:4400:218C:120B:A9FF:FE61:EFBC ( talk) 14:14, 28 October 2018 (UTC) Chris C.
@ Pi.1415926535 and RoySmith: The following text has been added by @ Smellyshirt5:, but its inclusion is disputed:
On September 25, 2013, a 138 kV main feeder cable from
Con Edison that provided electricity to an AC catenary-powered 8-mile (13 km) segment of the New Haven Line failed, causing electric train service over the line to halt between Mount Vernon and Harrison, New York. It was so impactful that Senator
Richard Blumenthal from Connecticut held a hearing on October 28, 2013 and among others, a representative from the
ASCE spoke.
[1]The other feeder cable that supplied power to that segment was out-of-service due to a planned electric equipment upgrade at the Metro-North station. There was no formal contingency plan in place between Con Edison and Metro-North in case of the failure. An attempt to draw power from a Connecticut substation in Cos Cob failed to provide enough power to supply full service on the line, and was instead used to rescue stranded trains. Metro-North used diesel locomotives and alternative bus service to carry passengers until full service was restored after 12 days of disruption. Con Edison initially provided this short-notice power by modifying available electric transformers and other equipment to Metro-North's unique needs in an adjacent temporary location. The outage was caused by liquid nitrogen, which was being used to control dielectric fluid flow in the out-of-service feeder, freezing the dielectric fluid in the adjacent live feeder supplying the sole power to the station. Con Edison had performed this type of freeze operation around 18 times a year, and had never experienced this type of failure before. The executive summary of a state report was released in November of 2014 detailing findings. The Cos Cob link is now able to provide full service power if needed. The monitoring of the use of liquid nitrogen in underground transmission feeders has been modified. There was a short term interest in examining n-1-1 power supply contingencies to various municipal power consumers following the incident.
[2]
[3]
[4]
References
It looks like too much detail for a minor incident, and most of it shouldn't be placed in this article, as per Wikipedia:Neutral point of view#Due and undue weight. This may also be related to WP:TOOMUCH (about too much detail). Most readers don't really want to know about the details of a single incident if they are specificially looking about information on the New Haven Line. epicgenius ( talk) 01:10, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
To RoySmith and his associates Epicgenius and pi....:The word "tedious" is subjective, as is the word "reasonable". I am displaying the findings of the executive summary of a public state investigation of a unique outage event that disturbed the most popular rail road line (with 125,000 daily riders) on the east coast for at least 12 days. Please see http://documents.dps.ny.gov/public/Common/ViewDoc.aspx?DocRefId={5B2369A6-97FC-4613-AD8B-91E23D41AC05} or NYSPSC Case no. 13-E-0529. It was so impactful that U.S. Senator Blumenthal decided to hold a hearing shortly after the incident occurred. That would indicate that some level of technical explanation for the cause of the event is appropriate, beyond how unique and interesting (and publicly available) it is. Additionally, your complaints about adding technical details are comical in that you and your associate were the ones that began removing technical details from this page as soon as I added the findings about the event. Smellyshirt5 ( talk) 12:36, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
I made a separate page for it. Thanks for all your concern for the layman. Smellyshirt5 ( talk) 13:10, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
What is the point on the list of including stations that haven't existed in decades? For example, the Norwalk station I removed today has not existed since 1936. It was not replaced by another station in the same location. Today it's a tattoo parlor. If we're going to keep this sort of trivia, are we next to include this
[4] as a prior tenant of Grand Central Terminal? My point is that "historic stations" should be a subsection (3.3?) but causes confusion in the main list.
Markvs88 (
talk)
01:01, 10 December 2018 (UTC)
@ Epicgenius: The Meadowlands service was discontinued. It suggests: "Upon arrival at Grand Central Terminal, take the subway (purchase a MetroCard separately), or walk (about 20 minutes) to Penn Station, located at 7th Avenue and West 34th Street. The most direct subway route is 42nd Street Shuttle to Times Square, then the downtown one stop to 34 St. Penn Station."-- Kew Gardens 613 ( talk) 21:26, 10 December 2018 (UTC)
The first sentence says, "... runs from New Haven, Connecticut, southwest to Mount Vernon, New York. There it joins the Harlem Line..." I'm not sure that's correct. As far as I can tell, the point where the two lines actually join is in The Bronx, although little bits and pieces of the junction might be in Yonkers. The borders between Mt. Vernon, Yonkers, and The Bronx is crazy convoluted, but the junction is definitely not in Mt. Vernon. -- RoySmith (talk) 03:54, 30 May 2020 (UTC)
@ Kew Gardens 613: I'm a bit confused by your revert of my assessment of this article as B class. While not perfect (someday I'll enlist your help to get it to GA), it seems to me that it generally meets the B class standards at Wikipedia:Content assessment. Certainly, at 4,500 words and 90 citations, it's more than start class. Pi.1415926535 ( talk) 16:44, 26 August 2021 (UTC)
With reference to the above thread about the page rating, getting this to GA seems more important than arguing about where it is now. If we wanted to make a push to get it there, where would we start? Is there some standard outline for what a GA railroad article should look like? Based on List of United States commuter rail systems by ridership, if the New Haven Line were broken out by itself, it would be the 6th largest commuter railroad in the country. So it seems like it should have a better quality article. -- RoySmith (talk) 17:37, 28 August 2021 (UTC)
The distance from New Haven Union Station to State Street station is only about half a mile, not 1.7 miles. The total length of the line would therefore be about 72.7 miles, as indicated in the station listing section. Not sure why, in the lead and the drop down map in the infobox, the line is said to be 74 miles long, and the distances to NH Union and State are listed as 72.3 and 74.0 respectively. Mirza Ahmed ( talk) 21:55, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
See page 16 of https://archive.org/details/OhioBrassCoCatalogueNo141914/page/n21/mode/2up RoySmith (talk) 00:12, 25 March 2024 (UTC)
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![]() | The route diagram template for this article can be found in Template:New Haven Line map. |
Why is this box on the Metro North New Haven Line page? Jd2718 03:51, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
The lead of this article is written about New Haven Line trackage. Is there a reason to believe that readers will come here looking for trackage info, and not service info? Otherwise, "The New Haven Line runs from New Haven, Connecticut, southwest to Grand Central Terminal." Jd2718 03:55, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
The user who deleted the line about West Haven and Orange being the only two towns Metro-North runs through without stations acknowledged that it is factually true, but said there are only a few hundred yards running through Orange. I don't see that as particularly relevant; service is not based on how long the track is, but on how convenient it is to the nearby residents. The station would be near a major north-south road serving Orange. Since they are planning to build an Orange station, someone must think it's justified. Therefore I see no reason to delete this sentence. InkQuill 19:03, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
I don't see anything in [1] backing up the assertion that West Haven and Orange had sought stations or that they were being planned there because those towns lack stations. -- NE2 14:28, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
Could we have a source? Jd2718 02:54, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
The idea that Metro-North is going to take over Shore Line East is at best speculative. Neither the governor's budget proposal nor press reports of legislators' press conference Feb. 8 make any mention of such a proposal. If you have information beyond this, please cite sources. InkQuill 03:49, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
Why isn't a line about this within the scope of this article? The council is specifically concerned with the New Haven Line of Metro-North. I find this explanation for deletion inadequate. InkQuill 03:56, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
The infobox has forced the first section to the below its bottom. I mistook the cause of the problem, but reversion is no solution to ugliness. DCDuring 20:21, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
It isn't perfect, but it's better, IMHO. DCDuring 20:24, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
The problem appeared to be with the image not being in the lead AND defaulting or being forced right, but I'm still not 100% sure. Recommended style WP:MOS has images alternating right and left. You are right about infoboxes, though. I don't think they CAN be positioned left. DCDuring 20:30, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
The picture which identifies the New Haven Line at Stamford is incorrect. That station is New Haven, and the train is the Shoreline East. It should be removed. Yaletiger ( talk) 14:41, 26 January 2010 (UTC)
![]() |
An image used in this article,
File:NJT Arrows III ALP-44.jpg, has been nominated for speedy deletion at
Wikimedia Commons for the following reason: Copyright violations
Don't panic; deletions can take a little longer at Commons than they do on Wikipedia. This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion (although please review Commons guidelines before doing so). The best way to contest this form of deletion is by posting on the image talk page.
This notification is provided by a Bot -- CommonsNotificationBot ( talk) 23:11, 10 October 2011 (UTC) |
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Here's a 2015 AutoCAD-made Metro North Track and Structures Dept book of Track Charts, Interlocking Diagrams and Yard Diagrams - http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/2647944-Operations-Metro-North-Railroad-Track-Charts.html As you can see there is a direct link to the PDF as well if that works better. Hope it's of use. I'm not very good at adding citations, nor did I write any of the article as of yet. 2601:19A:4400:218C:120B:A9FF:FE61:EFBC ( talk) 14:14, 28 October 2018 (UTC) Chris C.
@ Pi.1415926535 and RoySmith: The following text has been added by @ Smellyshirt5:, but its inclusion is disputed:
On September 25, 2013, a 138 kV main feeder cable from
Con Edison that provided electricity to an AC catenary-powered 8-mile (13 km) segment of the New Haven Line failed, causing electric train service over the line to halt between Mount Vernon and Harrison, New York. It was so impactful that Senator
Richard Blumenthal from Connecticut held a hearing on October 28, 2013 and among others, a representative from the
ASCE spoke.
[1]The other feeder cable that supplied power to that segment was out-of-service due to a planned electric equipment upgrade at the Metro-North station. There was no formal contingency plan in place between Con Edison and Metro-North in case of the failure. An attempt to draw power from a Connecticut substation in Cos Cob failed to provide enough power to supply full service on the line, and was instead used to rescue stranded trains. Metro-North used diesel locomotives and alternative bus service to carry passengers until full service was restored after 12 days of disruption. Con Edison initially provided this short-notice power by modifying available electric transformers and other equipment to Metro-North's unique needs in an adjacent temporary location. The outage was caused by liquid nitrogen, which was being used to control dielectric fluid flow in the out-of-service feeder, freezing the dielectric fluid in the adjacent live feeder supplying the sole power to the station. Con Edison had performed this type of freeze operation around 18 times a year, and had never experienced this type of failure before. The executive summary of a state report was released in November of 2014 detailing findings. The Cos Cob link is now able to provide full service power if needed. The monitoring of the use of liquid nitrogen in underground transmission feeders has been modified. There was a short term interest in examining n-1-1 power supply contingencies to various municipal power consumers following the incident.
[2]
[3]
[4]
References
It looks like too much detail for a minor incident, and most of it shouldn't be placed in this article, as per Wikipedia:Neutral point of view#Due and undue weight. This may also be related to WP:TOOMUCH (about too much detail). Most readers don't really want to know about the details of a single incident if they are specificially looking about information on the New Haven Line. epicgenius ( talk) 01:10, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
To RoySmith and his associates Epicgenius and pi....:The word "tedious" is subjective, as is the word "reasonable". I am displaying the findings of the executive summary of a public state investigation of a unique outage event that disturbed the most popular rail road line (with 125,000 daily riders) on the east coast for at least 12 days. Please see http://documents.dps.ny.gov/public/Common/ViewDoc.aspx?DocRefId={5B2369A6-97FC-4613-AD8B-91E23D41AC05} or NYSPSC Case no. 13-E-0529. It was so impactful that U.S. Senator Blumenthal decided to hold a hearing shortly after the incident occurred. That would indicate that some level of technical explanation for the cause of the event is appropriate, beyond how unique and interesting (and publicly available) it is. Additionally, your complaints about adding technical details are comical in that you and your associate were the ones that began removing technical details from this page as soon as I added the findings about the event. Smellyshirt5 ( talk) 12:36, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
I made a separate page for it. Thanks for all your concern for the layman. Smellyshirt5 ( talk) 13:10, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
What is the point on the list of including stations that haven't existed in decades? For example, the Norwalk station I removed today has not existed since 1936. It was not replaced by another station in the same location. Today it's a tattoo parlor. If we're going to keep this sort of trivia, are we next to include this
[4] as a prior tenant of Grand Central Terminal? My point is that "historic stations" should be a subsection (3.3?) but causes confusion in the main list.
Markvs88 (
talk)
01:01, 10 December 2018 (UTC)
@ Epicgenius: The Meadowlands service was discontinued. It suggests: "Upon arrival at Grand Central Terminal, take the subway (purchase a MetroCard separately), or walk (about 20 minutes) to Penn Station, located at 7th Avenue and West 34th Street. The most direct subway route is 42nd Street Shuttle to Times Square, then the downtown one stop to 34 St. Penn Station."-- Kew Gardens 613 ( talk) 21:26, 10 December 2018 (UTC)
The first sentence says, "... runs from New Haven, Connecticut, southwest to Mount Vernon, New York. There it joins the Harlem Line..." I'm not sure that's correct. As far as I can tell, the point where the two lines actually join is in The Bronx, although little bits and pieces of the junction might be in Yonkers. The borders between Mt. Vernon, Yonkers, and The Bronx is crazy convoluted, but the junction is definitely not in Mt. Vernon. -- RoySmith (talk) 03:54, 30 May 2020 (UTC)
@ Kew Gardens 613: I'm a bit confused by your revert of my assessment of this article as B class. While not perfect (someday I'll enlist your help to get it to GA), it seems to me that it generally meets the B class standards at Wikipedia:Content assessment. Certainly, at 4,500 words and 90 citations, it's more than start class. Pi.1415926535 ( talk) 16:44, 26 August 2021 (UTC)
With reference to the above thread about the page rating, getting this to GA seems more important than arguing about where it is now. If we wanted to make a push to get it there, where would we start? Is there some standard outline for what a GA railroad article should look like? Based on List of United States commuter rail systems by ridership, if the New Haven Line were broken out by itself, it would be the 6th largest commuter railroad in the country. So it seems like it should have a better quality article. -- RoySmith (talk) 17:37, 28 August 2021 (UTC)
The distance from New Haven Union Station to State Street station is only about half a mile, not 1.7 miles. The total length of the line would therefore be about 72.7 miles, as indicated in the station listing section. Not sure why, in the lead and the drop down map in the infobox, the line is said to be 74 miles long, and the distances to NH Union and State are listed as 72.3 and 74.0 respectively. Mirza Ahmed ( talk) 21:55, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
See page 16 of https://archive.org/details/OhioBrassCoCatalogueNo141914/page/n21/mode/2up RoySmith (talk) 00:12, 25 March 2024 (UTC)