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I am afraid we must consider the removal of the link to those web comics. They are not entirely in correct Latin. Caesarion 10:34, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Is there a Greek equivalent to New Latin? Considering how scholars make up new words from classical Greek roots? 惑乱 分からん 13:37, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
I'm definately no historian by profession, and I guess I wouldn't really know much about this, but I make a connection between protestantism abandonning latin as the preferred language of the church, and the overall decline in popularity. And I'm somewhat surprised to see no mention of this possible connection in this article. Now, as I said, I'm not sure I'm right, so I'm not editing the article, but hopefully someone who knows will pick up this little lead and deal with it. 85.224.199.36 11:33, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
You may find interesting this quotation from Latin or the Empire of a Sign about the proposal of a " Latin village" ad usum Delphini in 1620. -- 84.20.17.84 12:25, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
This article discusses two very different types of Latin; the post-Humanist Latin of educated writers, which was still flourishing in the 17th and 18th centuries, but was dying out (or reduced to a system of stereotyped tags) by the mid-19th century; and modern exercises in Latin translation of the Winnie-ille-Pu variety. The gap between Alexander Lenard and, say, Linnaeus is far greater than that between Linnaeus and Erasmus. I suggest splitting this article into two to reflect this gap. The question then is, what name is to be given to the "newer" New Latin? RandomCritic 13:41, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
Reports of my death are greatly exaggerated, as Mark Twain said.
This article is being personally opinionated and polemical in "declaring New Latin dead" with an arbitrary date. Check your dictionary — New Latin or Modern Latin is 1500 to "present".
It should be thoroughly re-worked, simply describing a decline in New Latin study and scholarly use through the 20th Century.
New Latin is still the official language of an internationally-recognized state, Vatican City, and New Latin is not just "preserved" in binomial nomenclature, it is "the language of" binomial nomenclature.
(New) Latin names and phrases are also still used for other academic/scientific purposes, such as the names of journals, and mottos.
A separate point is that the article should clarify the distinction between the use of New Latin, and Classical Latin, during the period 1500-present — with Classical Latin being the form used in language instruction from the (late) 19th Century to present. (There is even reputedly something of a revival of interest in Classical Latin among students in recent years.)
76.202.197.37 ( talk) 00:54, 5 August 2008 (UTC)Complainer
76.202.197.37 ( talk) 00:54, 5 August 2008 (UTC)Doer (formerly known as Complainer)
RandomCritic ( talk) 22:59, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
" Recent Latin" is not a well-accepted concept (check your dictionary). That article has been tagged for merger with New Latin.
The Recent Latin content is also somewhat opinionated — "it is primarily used as a form of entertainment" (Church Latin?); "intending to shrink readership, not expand it" (who's given the mandate readership should be expanded?). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.36.147.195 ( talk) 19:34, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
Homoproteus ( talk) 14:24, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
It would be interesting to include the romanian pronunciation of latin, and also references to the language's usage. Latin is still being taught in secondary school there as a compulsory subject as far as i know. The ministry of education in Romania view the learning of latin as essential in the comprehension and study of all neo-latin languages, as a means to understand each other's common substratum.
http://www.anidescoala.ro/view/Programe-scolare/Ciclul-secundar-inferior/Limba-si-comunicare/Limba-latina/Progr.Lat.VIII_rev+cu+explicatii.doc.pdf
83.103.179.12 ( talk) 14:23, 26 December 2008 (UTC)
I don't understand the intended meaning of the word "naturalized" in the following sentence from the article: "New Latin has also contributed a vocabulary, to some extent naturalized in European languages, for specialized fields such as anatomy and law."
The phrase may be intended to mean something like "... to some extent converted into local language," but that is only a guess on my part. I would like to improve the wording, but cannot accomplish that since I don't understand what the sentence is supposed to mean. Can anyone explain? Dratman ( talk) 15:42, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
As everyone can see the unreferenced generalities of the article are below standard. It's on Wikipedia, it belongs on Wikipedia, so thanks for putting it in. That raises the question whether it is better to throw in a thousand place holders of pure baloney or only to put in articles you can do a decent job on. It's immaterial now; the article is there. I'm generally going to stay with these Latin place holders until they start to say something truthful. Meanwhile, until I can get to it (or you can get to it) don't take anything at all seriously unless you see a little superscript number at the end of it (and then with reticence). All the arguments above are sort of pointless as this is mainly a wrong article and if the wrongness goes away there won't be any point in arguing. Sometimes it is hard to understand, this is not an "I think" game. I think the moon is made of green cheese. So what. If I tell that to 4.3 million people 535000 or so will think the moon is made of green cheese. Don't start chanting "four legs good, two legs bad" until you see the little numbers. This article by the way is mildly anti-Catholic. Dave ( talk) 22:37, 13 October 2009 (UTC)
The Intro is supposed to be a brief statement of the subject-matter of the article, not a long essay aimed at arguing a point of view. I have deleted User:Botteville's latest edit to the introduction, since it fails at doing the job an introduction is supposed to do. There are a few good points in it which should go back in the body, but there are also a host of bad generalizations and some very bad writing which make the article worse and less encyclopedic. I list my objections below:
New Latin, Neo-Latin and Modern Latin according to the English dictionary definition refer to a form of the Latin language used from about 1500 AD to the present.
The essential difference between the preceding Renaissance Latin and Modern Latin is that, while Renaissance Latin aimed at the restitution of correct Latin as it was expressed in the Classical Latin period, or age of the "first class" Latin, Modern Latin attempts to adapt that Latin to scholarly, philosophic and scientific contexts not available to the classical speakers and writers.
It therefore typically creates a large number of neologisms by re-casting the meanings of ancient words or re-composing quasi-classical new words from authentic classical segments or borrowing segments from relevant contexts in other languages; that is to say, the segments have become newly productive of vocabulary items expressing a modern inventory of concepts.
Like any language Latin has always had a spontaneity in the expression of meanings based on the contexts available to the speakers.
The modern effort to restore that innovative spontaneity after a total change of contexts is perhaps first seen in the efforts of Desiderius Erasmus to recast the Late Latin of the Vulgate Bible into classical language. He began with the concept of emending the text. The process of restoring ancient text by comparing the corrupted versions of the existing copies had begun in the Renaissance. Erasmus called his work an "emendation." It was not that; there was no original Latin text to restore. Instead he rewrote the Vulgate in language he considered more correct and more reflective of the original Greek, calling his work a nova versio, "new translation." It was published in 1516.
Subsequently the use of the adjective: novus, nova, novum, caught on: new dictionary, new grammar, new edition, etc., which recast all the ancient dictionaries, grammars, and editions, especially on topics newly opened to science.
Linnaeus created a new botanical language redefining and remorphologizing the old, defining new rules and techniques for word formation.
The physicists moved in the same direction, creating New Latin monographs in language that was never intended to be spoken or written by any class of the population, but were expositions of a new technology.
For example, Galileo recast inertia, "sluggishness", into the property by which all bodies resist change of motion. Newton devised new compounds, centripetus and centrifugus, "center-seeking" and "center-fleeing" to refer to new forces he had discovered, and so on.
Now, that is interesting and relevant, and could be put in the article (in the section relating to scientific uses of Neo-Latin); but some evidence should be provided that Galileo and Newton were the first Neo-Latin writers to use the words in these terms in these senses.
User:Botteville has a perfect right to make edits, but he needs to be a lot more careful with how and what he writes if he expects them to stick. It's rather troubling to see him declaring that "this is mainly a wrong article", and then immediately follow that declaration up by adding an introductory section, most of which is wrong. And I'm still interested in seeing how he justifies his claim that the article is "anti-Catholic" -- that would seem to be complete fantasy on his part. RandomCritic ( talk) 13:48, 14 October 2009 (UTC)
I'm moving this from my Talk page, where it seems to have been misplaced, as it is a response to my remarks on this Talk page. RandomCritic ( talk) 00:50, 15 October 2009 (UTC)
Hi random critic. I see the winds of your randomness have wafted in my direction, only I do not think they are random. You didn't like something I said about something YOU wrote. This is something of a surprise attack. You could have questioned me about this or waited until I put the references in but you chose to sweep in and delete before I could reference anything, even though I said, references to follow. But in another sense you are making life interesting for me. This is a little different. You throw down a challenge. I take up the challenge. I wouldn't give you any barn star for your behavior in this article so far or for the article either. The article is not a good article and needs improvement, including all the missing references. I intend to improve it. You caught me with my references down in some sort of Wiki Pearl Harbor. You won't find it so easy from this point on. The stuff is going back in with the missing references, but I invite you to collablorate with me on this. Find references for your own generalizations! Rewrite my stuff! Add things I never thought of! The one thing you aren't going to do from now on is just revert everything I do. That will be vandalism and right now it is only not because you caught me unreferenced by surprise. I invite you, play the game with me, or else yield the ground in this tournament of the New Latin article. See my initial comments in the discussion on the article. Changes will be coming but slow. Forgive me, I move slowly but I hope surely. I got something else to do right now but I will be back. The first step is to do your dictionary work for you, which you evidently didn't do. Why do I have to do everything myself around here? Dave ( talk) 16:43, 14 October 2009 (UTC)
I wanted to include a mention of the Spanish Humanist Antonio de Nebrija either in the article about Renaissance Latin or in this one about New Latin. Nebrija lived 1441-1522 and wrote his famous Introductiones Latinæ in 1481. Now, the Renaissance Latin article lists authors of the fourteenth and fifteenth centuries only, and classifies them clearly according to their date of death. This way understood, Nebrija is a sixteenth century author (died 1522) and doesn't fit there. The New Latin article nevertheless lists not autors but works, and does so by their date of issue, starting from 1500. This way understood, Nebrija wrote in the fifteenth century (1481) and his contribution cannot be included there either. Please advise on how to sort out this problem, because Nebrija is one of the best known Latin humanists both in Spain and abroad (cf. Jozef IJsewijn, Companion to Neo-Latin Studies, Part I, 3.2.5. Spain, pp. 104-117) and his contribution cannot be silenced just because of inadequate classification criteria. Aggfvavitus ( talk) 12:15, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
George I of Great Britain (a Hanoverian) likely communicated with his government in French, not Latin. Is there any cite to accompany the article's claim? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.232.16.141 ( talk) 05:06, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
Your doubts are unfounded. Although George I spoke French, his Prime Minister did not; and they accordingly carried on their discussions in Latin, as cited. RandomCritic ( talk) 12:05, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
Sorry, I'm fairly new here, but I'm a bit unsure about why the term "New Latin" is heading this page when all of the references use "Neo". "New Latin" is pretty confusing. Is it just because of the definition from the college dictionary? The OED doesn't even seem to list it as a recognised term.
Currently the representation of titles here begins arbitrarily with the Northern Renaissance, omitting the 14th and 15th century antecedents. While Wikipedia possesses a Renaissance Latin article, the relationship between "Neo-Latin" and "Renaissance Latin" is by no means delineated or clarified by the New Latin article. Methinks this is the case because the division between the two articles is arbitrary since post 1500 Latin is fundamentally an extension of Renaissance Latin. See for example how the subject is engaged at the Cambridge University Faculty of Modern & Medieval Languages: What is Neo-Latin?
To this end, the works listed on the Renaissance Latin page could be amalgamated into this page's lists.
On a separate note, the heading Other technical subjects could now be profitably subdivided into Political Theory, Philosophy, History, Theology. Objections?
Finally, count my voice as a vote for Neo-Latin over New Latin as the most fitting title for the subject. Gamonetus ( talk) 15:38, 22 January 2011 (UTC)
During the earlier part of this period, Latin was still to some degree a language of government in Hungary... AnonMoos ( talk) 03:25, 8 April 2011 (UTC)
The article does a good job of presenting differences in pronunciation, but I would like to see a discussion of any differences in structure and grammar. Spoken languages tend to become simplified. Was there a similar trend in New Latin, e.g., a simplification of the strange word order that we see in classical writings, like Vergil's Arma virumque cano Troiae qui primus ab oris Italiam fato profugus Laviniaque venit litora..., where Troiae modifies oris, fato profugus modifies venit, and Lavinia modifies litora? (Apologies if I have parsed this incorrectly; my Latin isn't very good. Also, I cannot recall whether I have seen similar constructions in prose. My point is that classical Latin was more convoluted than it needed to be and certainly more so than the spoken language.) Such sentence structure perhaps would have been difficult even for educated people who learned Latin as a second language. Did they nevertheless use it in their writings? Peter Chastain ( talk) 16:31, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
Is in the editing of Classical texts: in the more serious academic editions of, say, Vergil or Homer, the preface, introduction, notes & commentary are still written in Latin, in part out of tradition, in part because Latin is still the language all Classicists can be expected to read. (Case in point: for an article I've been working on, I've relied on Ladislav Vidman (ed.), Fasti ostienses, second edition, published in Prague in 1982. Had the editor written the critical apparatus in Czech -- which I assume is his native language -- I could not have used it as fully as I had. It was something of a delight to encounter a book written & printed in the last 35-40 years in Latin.) Much of Theodor Mommsen's work in editing inscriptions & historical texts is accompanied with his comments written in Latin, & one reason why the publications of the Loeb Classical Library is looked down upon. However, even in this narrow field New Latin is under pressure for the simple fact even Classicists are in decreasing numbers fluent enough in the language to express themselves, depressing to report. This was pointed out in an article I stumbled across in a German academic publication -- I could find the citation if anyone is interested. Perhaps the next generation of editions of Ovid, Hesiod, & Livy will be published with notes in French & German, which will help defend those languages against growing encroachment of the English language, while abandoning Latin to the Catholic Church & fringe groups. -- llywrch ( talk) 21:05, 11 April 2017 (UTC)
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Toward the beginning of the article:
As a language for full expression in prose or poetry, however, it is often distinguished from Contemporary Latin as a predecessor.
I find this wording very unclear. Which is the predecessor of which? New Latin of Contemporary Latin, or the reverse?
Toddcs ( talk) 07:04, 2 November 2017 (UTC)
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About:
The last survivals of New Latin to convey non-technical information appear in the use of Latin to cloak passages and expressions deemed too indecent (in the 19th century) to be read by children, the lower classes, or (most) women.
OK, so I get the part about children and (most) women. But the lower classes? So, in other words, indecent material was not for just any man on the street; rather, you had to be of a sufficiently noble stature to be worthy of reading indecent material.
That is bizarre. But I have no reason to doubt that such could have been the thinking of many members of those "upper" classes. Toddcs ( talk) 04:08, 21 December 2017 (UTC)
There's a lot that needs to be done to this page I feel:
I'm going to have a go at some of this, so this is a heads up that I will try to address the above points. If anyone has other suggestions please do say so. Jim Killock (talk) 21:11, 20 March 2023 (UTC)
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I am afraid we must consider the removal of the link to those web comics. They are not entirely in correct Latin. Caesarion 10:34, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Is there a Greek equivalent to New Latin? Considering how scholars make up new words from classical Greek roots? 惑乱 分からん 13:37, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
I'm definately no historian by profession, and I guess I wouldn't really know much about this, but I make a connection between protestantism abandonning latin as the preferred language of the church, and the overall decline in popularity. And I'm somewhat surprised to see no mention of this possible connection in this article. Now, as I said, I'm not sure I'm right, so I'm not editing the article, but hopefully someone who knows will pick up this little lead and deal with it. 85.224.199.36 11:33, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
You may find interesting this quotation from Latin or the Empire of a Sign about the proposal of a " Latin village" ad usum Delphini in 1620. -- 84.20.17.84 12:25, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
This article discusses two very different types of Latin; the post-Humanist Latin of educated writers, which was still flourishing in the 17th and 18th centuries, but was dying out (or reduced to a system of stereotyped tags) by the mid-19th century; and modern exercises in Latin translation of the Winnie-ille-Pu variety. The gap between Alexander Lenard and, say, Linnaeus is far greater than that between Linnaeus and Erasmus. I suggest splitting this article into two to reflect this gap. The question then is, what name is to be given to the "newer" New Latin? RandomCritic 13:41, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
Reports of my death are greatly exaggerated, as Mark Twain said.
This article is being personally opinionated and polemical in "declaring New Latin dead" with an arbitrary date. Check your dictionary — New Latin or Modern Latin is 1500 to "present".
It should be thoroughly re-worked, simply describing a decline in New Latin study and scholarly use through the 20th Century.
New Latin is still the official language of an internationally-recognized state, Vatican City, and New Latin is not just "preserved" in binomial nomenclature, it is "the language of" binomial nomenclature.
(New) Latin names and phrases are also still used for other academic/scientific purposes, such as the names of journals, and mottos.
A separate point is that the article should clarify the distinction between the use of New Latin, and Classical Latin, during the period 1500-present — with Classical Latin being the form used in language instruction from the (late) 19th Century to present. (There is even reputedly something of a revival of interest in Classical Latin among students in recent years.)
76.202.197.37 ( talk) 00:54, 5 August 2008 (UTC)Complainer
76.202.197.37 ( talk) 00:54, 5 August 2008 (UTC)Doer (formerly known as Complainer)
RandomCritic ( talk) 22:59, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
" Recent Latin" is not a well-accepted concept (check your dictionary). That article has been tagged for merger with New Latin.
The Recent Latin content is also somewhat opinionated — "it is primarily used as a form of entertainment" (Church Latin?); "intending to shrink readership, not expand it" (who's given the mandate readership should be expanded?). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.36.147.195 ( talk) 19:34, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
Homoproteus ( talk) 14:24, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
It would be interesting to include the romanian pronunciation of latin, and also references to the language's usage. Latin is still being taught in secondary school there as a compulsory subject as far as i know. The ministry of education in Romania view the learning of latin as essential in the comprehension and study of all neo-latin languages, as a means to understand each other's common substratum.
http://www.anidescoala.ro/view/Programe-scolare/Ciclul-secundar-inferior/Limba-si-comunicare/Limba-latina/Progr.Lat.VIII_rev+cu+explicatii.doc.pdf
83.103.179.12 ( talk) 14:23, 26 December 2008 (UTC)
I don't understand the intended meaning of the word "naturalized" in the following sentence from the article: "New Latin has also contributed a vocabulary, to some extent naturalized in European languages, for specialized fields such as anatomy and law."
The phrase may be intended to mean something like "... to some extent converted into local language," but that is only a guess on my part. I would like to improve the wording, but cannot accomplish that since I don't understand what the sentence is supposed to mean. Can anyone explain? Dratman ( talk) 15:42, 3 January 2009 (UTC)
As everyone can see the unreferenced generalities of the article are below standard. It's on Wikipedia, it belongs on Wikipedia, so thanks for putting it in. That raises the question whether it is better to throw in a thousand place holders of pure baloney or only to put in articles you can do a decent job on. It's immaterial now; the article is there. I'm generally going to stay with these Latin place holders until they start to say something truthful. Meanwhile, until I can get to it (or you can get to it) don't take anything at all seriously unless you see a little superscript number at the end of it (and then with reticence). All the arguments above are sort of pointless as this is mainly a wrong article and if the wrongness goes away there won't be any point in arguing. Sometimes it is hard to understand, this is not an "I think" game. I think the moon is made of green cheese. So what. If I tell that to 4.3 million people 535000 or so will think the moon is made of green cheese. Don't start chanting "four legs good, two legs bad" until you see the little numbers. This article by the way is mildly anti-Catholic. Dave ( talk) 22:37, 13 October 2009 (UTC)
The Intro is supposed to be a brief statement of the subject-matter of the article, not a long essay aimed at arguing a point of view. I have deleted User:Botteville's latest edit to the introduction, since it fails at doing the job an introduction is supposed to do. There are a few good points in it which should go back in the body, but there are also a host of bad generalizations and some very bad writing which make the article worse and less encyclopedic. I list my objections below:
New Latin, Neo-Latin and Modern Latin according to the English dictionary definition refer to a form of the Latin language used from about 1500 AD to the present.
The essential difference between the preceding Renaissance Latin and Modern Latin is that, while Renaissance Latin aimed at the restitution of correct Latin as it was expressed in the Classical Latin period, or age of the "first class" Latin, Modern Latin attempts to adapt that Latin to scholarly, philosophic and scientific contexts not available to the classical speakers and writers.
It therefore typically creates a large number of neologisms by re-casting the meanings of ancient words or re-composing quasi-classical new words from authentic classical segments or borrowing segments from relevant contexts in other languages; that is to say, the segments have become newly productive of vocabulary items expressing a modern inventory of concepts.
Like any language Latin has always had a spontaneity in the expression of meanings based on the contexts available to the speakers.
The modern effort to restore that innovative spontaneity after a total change of contexts is perhaps first seen in the efforts of Desiderius Erasmus to recast the Late Latin of the Vulgate Bible into classical language. He began with the concept of emending the text. The process of restoring ancient text by comparing the corrupted versions of the existing copies had begun in the Renaissance. Erasmus called his work an "emendation." It was not that; there was no original Latin text to restore. Instead he rewrote the Vulgate in language he considered more correct and more reflective of the original Greek, calling his work a nova versio, "new translation." It was published in 1516.
Subsequently the use of the adjective: novus, nova, novum, caught on: new dictionary, new grammar, new edition, etc., which recast all the ancient dictionaries, grammars, and editions, especially on topics newly opened to science.
Linnaeus created a new botanical language redefining and remorphologizing the old, defining new rules and techniques for word formation.
The physicists moved in the same direction, creating New Latin monographs in language that was never intended to be spoken or written by any class of the population, but were expositions of a new technology.
For example, Galileo recast inertia, "sluggishness", into the property by which all bodies resist change of motion. Newton devised new compounds, centripetus and centrifugus, "center-seeking" and "center-fleeing" to refer to new forces he had discovered, and so on.
Now, that is interesting and relevant, and could be put in the article (in the section relating to scientific uses of Neo-Latin); but some evidence should be provided that Galileo and Newton were the first Neo-Latin writers to use the words in these terms in these senses.
User:Botteville has a perfect right to make edits, but he needs to be a lot more careful with how and what he writes if he expects them to stick. It's rather troubling to see him declaring that "this is mainly a wrong article", and then immediately follow that declaration up by adding an introductory section, most of which is wrong. And I'm still interested in seeing how he justifies his claim that the article is "anti-Catholic" -- that would seem to be complete fantasy on his part. RandomCritic ( talk) 13:48, 14 October 2009 (UTC)
I'm moving this from my Talk page, where it seems to have been misplaced, as it is a response to my remarks on this Talk page. RandomCritic ( talk) 00:50, 15 October 2009 (UTC)
Hi random critic. I see the winds of your randomness have wafted in my direction, only I do not think they are random. You didn't like something I said about something YOU wrote. This is something of a surprise attack. You could have questioned me about this or waited until I put the references in but you chose to sweep in and delete before I could reference anything, even though I said, references to follow. But in another sense you are making life interesting for me. This is a little different. You throw down a challenge. I take up the challenge. I wouldn't give you any barn star for your behavior in this article so far or for the article either. The article is not a good article and needs improvement, including all the missing references. I intend to improve it. You caught me with my references down in some sort of Wiki Pearl Harbor. You won't find it so easy from this point on. The stuff is going back in with the missing references, but I invite you to collablorate with me on this. Find references for your own generalizations! Rewrite my stuff! Add things I never thought of! The one thing you aren't going to do from now on is just revert everything I do. That will be vandalism and right now it is only not because you caught me unreferenced by surprise. I invite you, play the game with me, or else yield the ground in this tournament of the New Latin article. See my initial comments in the discussion on the article. Changes will be coming but slow. Forgive me, I move slowly but I hope surely. I got something else to do right now but I will be back. The first step is to do your dictionary work for you, which you evidently didn't do. Why do I have to do everything myself around here? Dave ( talk) 16:43, 14 October 2009 (UTC)
I wanted to include a mention of the Spanish Humanist Antonio de Nebrija either in the article about Renaissance Latin or in this one about New Latin. Nebrija lived 1441-1522 and wrote his famous Introductiones Latinæ in 1481. Now, the Renaissance Latin article lists authors of the fourteenth and fifteenth centuries only, and classifies them clearly according to their date of death. This way understood, Nebrija is a sixteenth century author (died 1522) and doesn't fit there. The New Latin article nevertheless lists not autors but works, and does so by their date of issue, starting from 1500. This way understood, Nebrija wrote in the fifteenth century (1481) and his contribution cannot be included there either. Please advise on how to sort out this problem, because Nebrija is one of the best known Latin humanists both in Spain and abroad (cf. Jozef IJsewijn, Companion to Neo-Latin Studies, Part I, 3.2.5. Spain, pp. 104-117) and his contribution cannot be silenced just because of inadequate classification criteria. Aggfvavitus ( talk) 12:15, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
George I of Great Britain (a Hanoverian) likely communicated with his government in French, not Latin. Is there any cite to accompany the article's claim? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.232.16.141 ( talk) 05:06, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
Your doubts are unfounded. Although George I spoke French, his Prime Minister did not; and they accordingly carried on their discussions in Latin, as cited. RandomCritic ( talk) 12:05, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
Sorry, I'm fairly new here, but I'm a bit unsure about why the term "New Latin" is heading this page when all of the references use "Neo". "New Latin" is pretty confusing. Is it just because of the definition from the college dictionary? The OED doesn't even seem to list it as a recognised term.
Currently the representation of titles here begins arbitrarily with the Northern Renaissance, omitting the 14th and 15th century antecedents. While Wikipedia possesses a Renaissance Latin article, the relationship between "Neo-Latin" and "Renaissance Latin" is by no means delineated or clarified by the New Latin article. Methinks this is the case because the division between the two articles is arbitrary since post 1500 Latin is fundamentally an extension of Renaissance Latin. See for example how the subject is engaged at the Cambridge University Faculty of Modern & Medieval Languages: What is Neo-Latin?
To this end, the works listed on the Renaissance Latin page could be amalgamated into this page's lists.
On a separate note, the heading Other technical subjects could now be profitably subdivided into Political Theory, Philosophy, History, Theology. Objections?
Finally, count my voice as a vote for Neo-Latin over New Latin as the most fitting title for the subject. Gamonetus ( talk) 15:38, 22 January 2011 (UTC)
During the earlier part of this period, Latin was still to some degree a language of government in Hungary... AnonMoos ( talk) 03:25, 8 April 2011 (UTC)
The article does a good job of presenting differences in pronunciation, but I would like to see a discussion of any differences in structure and grammar. Spoken languages tend to become simplified. Was there a similar trend in New Latin, e.g., a simplification of the strange word order that we see in classical writings, like Vergil's Arma virumque cano Troiae qui primus ab oris Italiam fato profugus Laviniaque venit litora..., where Troiae modifies oris, fato profugus modifies venit, and Lavinia modifies litora? (Apologies if I have parsed this incorrectly; my Latin isn't very good. Also, I cannot recall whether I have seen similar constructions in prose. My point is that classical Latin was more convoluted than it needed to be and certainly more so than the spoken language.) Such sentence structure perhaps would have been difficult even for educated people who learned Latin as a second language. Did they nevertheless use it in their writings? Peter Chastain ( talk) 16:31, 24 August 2011 (UTC)
Is in the editing of Classical texts: in the more serious academic editions of, say, Vergil or Homer, the preface, introduction, notes & commentary are still written in Latin, in part out of tradition, in part because Latin is still the language all Classicists can be expected to read. (Case in point: for an article I've been working on, I've relied on Ladislav Vidman (ed.), Fasti ostienses, second edition, published in Prague in 1982. Had the editor written the critical apparatus in Czech -- which I assume is his native language -- I could not have used it as fully as I had. It was something of a delight to encounter a book written & printed in the last 35-40 years in Latin.) Much of Theodor Mommsen's work in editing inscriptions & historical texts is accompanied with his comments written in Latin, & one reason why the publications of the Loeb Classical Library is looked down upon. However, even in this narrow field New Latin is under pressure for the simple fact even Classicists are in decreasing numbers fluent enough in the language to express themselves, depressing to report. This was pointed out in an article I stumbled across in a German academic publication -- I could find the citation if anyone is interested. Perhaps the next generation of editions of Ovid, Hesiod, & Livy will be published with notes in French & German, which will help defend those languages against growing encroachment of the English language, while abandoning Latin to the Catholic Church & fringe groups. -- llywrch ( talk) 21:05, 11 April 2017 (UTC)
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Toward the beginning of the article:
As a language for full expression in prose or poetry, however, it is often distinguished from Contemporary Latin as a predecessor.
I find this wording very unclear. Which is the predecessor of which? New Latin of Contemporary Latin, or the reverse?
Toddcs ( talk) 07:04, 2 November 2017 (UTC)
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About:
The last survivals of New Latin to convey non-technical information appear in the use of Latin to cloak passages and expressions deemed too indecent (in the 19th century) to be read by children, the lower classes, or (most) women.
OK, so I get the part about children and (most) women. But the lower classes? So, in other words, indecent material was not for just any man on the street; rather, you had to be of a sufficiently noble stature to be worthy of reading indecent material.
That is bizarre. But I have no reason to doubt that such could have been the thinking of many members of those "upper" classes. Toddcs ( talk) 04:08, 21 December 2017 (UTC)
There's a lot that needs to be done to this page I feel:
I'm going to have a go at some of this, so this is a heads up that I will try to address the above points. If anyone has other suggestions please do say so. Jim Killock (talk) 21:11, 20 March 2023 (UTC)