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Whilst in no way wishing to detract from Piquet's (or Schumacher's) abilities and achievements, I think the statement that "A proof of Piquet's unique talent is that he and the seven-time champion Michael Schumacher are the only two drivers between 1980 and 2000 to have won world titles racing for teams other than McLaren and Williams - undoubtedly the two reigning forces in those decades" is a bit much. It would hardly be fair to describe McLaren as "a reigning force" in 1983, 1994 or 1995 (or Williams in 1983 for that matter). In 1983, Piquet was in one of the three best cars (Brabham, Renault, Ferrari) and in 1994, Schumacher was in one of the best two (Williams, Benetton). If Irvine had scored three extra points and taken the title in 1999, would that have put him on a par with Piquet and Schumacher? I think not! DH85868993 02:52, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
Why no mention of his huge crash at the Indy 500 ?
I tried to clean up some of the clumsy prose, but this article still needs work. versen ( talk) 08:36, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
Why was this page moved from Nelson Piquet? A user searching for "Nelson Piquet" would most likely be looking for the famous F1 racer, not his son or racetrack. If they were looking for his son or racetrack, the "otheruses1" template would suffice at the top of the article to point them to the dab page Nelson Piquet (disambiguation). It seems strange to have an existing article at "Nelson Piquet" then move it to "Nelson Piquet Sr. (racing driver)". ♫ Bitch and Complain Sooner ♫ ( talk) 21:53, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
The result of the proposal was Consensus at WP:F1 is for this page to be reverted to Nelson Piquet. DH85868993 ( talk) 08:02, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
Move accepted. Discussion also occurred at WikiProject Formula One. Administrator tools was needed to perform this move, so I did it. Royalbroil 01:56, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
Could someone put a phonetic pronunciation of Piquet's name? I'm sure it's not pronounced as if it was French (with the silent 't') as the British commentators say. The Spanish, who should be more clued up on Portuguese pronunciation, pronounce the 't'. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.30.28.186 ( talk) 12:05, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
Well, first of all, spanish has a totally different pronunciation than portuguese - even though the two languages are very much alike in written form they are very apart in the way we speak. Actually, portuguese sounds more like french or romanian than spanish.
Anyway, as a brazilian I can attest that we say say "Piquet" with a silent "t".
See [1]. Apart from a lack of citations, the article as it stands now states that Piquet was born in São Paulo, and in Rio de Janeiro. Clearly one at least is wrong. Can I ask that people find a source before adding such details, and read the whole article when editing it. It shouldn't need a posting at the WP:BLPN [2] to point out such obvious errors. AndyTheGrump ( talk) 11:24, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
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The article cites a BBC report for Piquet having called Lewis Hamilton a "neguinho" in 2022. But that BBC report curiously fails to specify what he is supposed to have said, not mentioning the Brazilian word, nor stating that it is the equivalent of "nigger" as we say in this article. So we need a source for what he actually said, and someone who knows the subtleties of Portuguese insults to help clarify its connotations. Beorhtwulf ( talk) 10:38, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
We've now had an edit by User:Judyverstakl to say that the podcast in question was actually in 2021. But unless I'm missing something, this is also not stated in the source cited. Beorhtwulf ( talk) 11:22, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
All, found a reliable source now. Motorsport.com is very well regarded in the racing press, their Brazilian editor reviewed the podcast and translated it, I think this is a good source to clarify the incident and added it. Other than that, think I'll stay out of editing this one. -- WGFinley ( talk) 11:33, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
OK, the article has been edited quite a bit and I'm still concerned information finding its way into footnoted sentences doesn't actually appear in the sources given. For example, we currently quote someone's translation of Piquet's remarks from one of the cited sources, but in place of their "n*****" (complete with asterisks, as if the mere sight of the word will make our eyes bleed, and yet we're supposed to guess what it is) we go with the original "neguinho" but then gloss it as "[little black boy]", seemingly unsupported by the sources. Evidently then there's a difference of opinion about whether neguinho is a straightforward equivalent of nigger or is a racially tinged way of referring to someone that nevertheless isn't perceived as offensively as that. I don't speak Portuguese so have no clue about the connotations myself. Wikipedia should do better than journalists who simply report that Piquet has used racist language without doing the reader the courtesy of telling them what he said. We ideally need direct quotation of his exact words in Portuguese, and a translation that makes clear (so no suggestive asterisks) how this translates in English, reliably sourced. We also need (and have, currently) a mention that his comments were made in 2021 but have suddenly blown up now. Beorhtwulf ( talk) 18:15, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
in comments subsequently translated to "But the neguinho [little black boy] put the car [on the inside of Copse]. Copse is a very high speed corner, there's no way two cars can make it side by side.) it doesn't read like a "racial slur at all. It reads that (what makes this racist) is the context. I certainly don't get the impression that it is the Portuguese equivilant of "n*****" as suggested by the sources. I will shortly raise a translation request at WT:WikiProject Brazil and WT:WikiProject Portugal in the hope of finding someone who can translate. SSSB ( talk) 18:55, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
SSSB, I wasn't implying anything. I was stating a cited fact related to the matter. - "Ghost of Dan Gurney" 13:58, 29 June 2022 (UTC)
In Rio de Janeiro it is extremely common to use the word "neguinho" as a slang, I live in this city and I say it myself all the time. It's not racist slang, it's a popular and old slang in the area that generalizes when you're too lazy to speak or remember people's names. You simply say, "ah, that neguinho over there" instead of saying "ah, that person over there". It shouldn't be a reason for so much commotion, but it's an election year in Brazil, the left wants to destroy the right and that's on the agenda. There are people out there who are very mentally addicted to politics who see a racial problem in anything. Piquet is known in Brazil for being rude, perhaps old-fashioned, but not racist. His manner as a person was molded into the pattern of his time. Gtroviz ( talk) 22:55, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
Going back further, the article says Piquet called Nigel Mansell an "uneducated blockhead", his wife Roseanne "ugly", Ayrton Senna "gay" and Enzo Ferrari "senile". Mansell's 1995 autobiography is given as the source for Mansell being unhappy about this, and we helpfully have a page reference, but it's not clear from the article whether that book provides a specific quotation of all four insults, and whether the footnote is supposed to be the source for the whole paragraph in our article or just Mansell's reaction. Perhaps someone who has access to it can check. If we are going to attribute specific words to people, we ought to have a specific source. Beorhtwulf ( talk) 10:38, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
Nelson has recently bought out a business along FL SR 80/Southern Blvd, named Piquet Entertainment and Race Park. Figured I’d let y’all know, as a south florida local who drives past it all the time, and as an F1 fan who’s dating another F1 fan lol 2601:58A:4100:27E0:40A0:9D77:123:EA11 ( talk) 07:49, 22 April 2023 (UTC)
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
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Whilst in no way wishing to detract from Piquet's (or Schumacher's) abilities and achievements, I think the statement that "A proof of Piquet's unique talent is that he and the seven-time champion Michael Schumacher are the only two drivers between 1980 and 2000 to have won world titles racing for teams other than McLaren and Williams - undoubtedly the two reigning forces in those decades" is a bit much. It would hardly be fair to describe McLaren as "a reigning force" in 1983, 1994 or 1995 (or Williams in 1983 for that matter). In 1983, Piquet was in one of the three best cars (Brabham, Renault, Ferrari) and in 1994, Schumacher was in one of the best two (Williams, Benetton). If Irvine had scored three extra points and taken the title in 1999, would that have put him on a par with Piquet and Schumacher? I think not! DH85868993 02:52, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
Why no mention of his huge crash at the Indy 500 ?
I tried to clean up some of the clumsy prose, but this article still needs work. versen ( talk) 08:36, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
Why was this page moved from Nelson Piquet? A user searching for "Nelson Piquet" would most likely be looking for the famous F1 racer, not his son or racetrack. If they were looking for his son or racetrack, the "otheruses1" template would suffice at the top of the article to point them to the dab page Nelson Piquet (disambiguation). It seems strange to have an existing article at "Nelson Piquet" then move it to "Nelson Piquet Sr. (racing driver)". ♫ Bitch and Complain Sooner ♫ ( talk) 21:53, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
The result of the proposal was Consensus at WP:F1 is for this page to be reverted to Nelson Piquet. DH85868993 ( talk) 08:02, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
Move accepted. Discussion also occurred at WikiProject Formula One. Administrator tools was needed to perform this move, so I did it. Royalbroil 01:56, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
Could someone put a phonetic pronunciation of Piquet's name? I'm sure it's not pronounced as if it was French (with the silent 't') as the British commentators say. The Spanish, who should be more clued up on Portuguese pronunciation, pronounce the 't'. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.30.28.186 ( talk) 12:05, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
Well, first of all, spanish has a totally different pronunciation than portuguese - even though the two languages are very much alike in written form they are very apart in the way we speak. Actually, portuguese sounds more like french or romanian than spanish.
Anyway, as a brazilian I can attest that we say say "Piquet" with a silent "t".
See [1]. Apart from a lack of citations, the article as it stands now states that Piquet was born in São Paulo, and in Rio de Janeiro. Clearly one at least is wrong. Can I ask that people find a source before adding such details, and read the whole article when editing it. It shouldn't need a posting at the WP:BLPN [2] to point out such obvious errors. AndyTheGrump ( talk) 11:24, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
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The article cites a BBC report for Piquet having called Lewis Hamilton a "neguinho" in 2022. But that BBC report curiously fails to specify what he is supposed to have said, not mentioning the Brazilian word, nor stating that it is the equivalent of "nigger" as we say in this article. So we need a source for what he actually said, and someone who knows the subtleties of Portuguese insults to help clarify its connotations. Beorhtwulf ( talk) 10:38, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
We've now had an edit by User:Judyverstakl to say that the podcast in question was actually in 2021. But unless I'm missing something, this is also not stated in the source cited. Beorhtwulf ( talk) 11:22, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
All, found a reliable source now. Motorsport.com is very well regarded in the racing press, their Brazilian editor reviewed the podcast and translated it, I think this is a good source to clarify the incident and added it. Other than that, think I'll stay out of editing this one. -- WGFinley ( talk) 11:33, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
OK, the article has been edited quite a bit and I'm still concerned information finding its way into footnoted sentences doesn't actually appear in the sources given. For example, we currently quote someone's translation of Piquet's remarks from one of the cited sources, but in place of their "n*****" (complete with asterisks, as if the mere sight of the word will make our eyes bleed, and yet we're supposed to guess what it is) we go with the original "neguinho" but then gloss it as "[little black boy]", seemingly unsupported by the sources. Evidently then there's a difference of opinion about whether neguinho is a straightforward equivalent of nigger or is a racially tinged way of referring to someone that nevertheless isn't perceived as offensively as that. I don't speak Portuguese so have no clue about the connotations myself. Wikipedia should do better than journalists who simply report that Piquet has used racist language without doing the reader the courtesy of telling them what he said. We ideally need direct quotation of his exact words in Portuguese, and a translation that makes clear (so no suggestive asterisks) how this translates in English, reliably sourced. We also need (and have, currently) a mention that his comments were made in 2021 but have suddenly blown up now. Beorhtwulf ( talk) 18:15, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
in comments subsequently translated to "But the neguinho [little black boy] put the car [on the inside of Copse]. Copse is a very high speed corner, there's no way two cars can make it side by side.) it doesn't read like a "racial slur at all. It reads that (what makes this racist) is the context. I certainly don't get the impression that it is the Portuguese equivilant of "n*****" as suggested by the sources. I will shortly raise a translation request at WT:WikiProject Brazil and WT:WikiProject Portugal in the hope of finding someone who can translate. SSSB ( talk) 18:55, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
SSSB, I wasn't implying anything. I was stating a cited fact related to the matter. - "Ghost of Dan Gurney" 13:58, 29 June 2022 (UTC)
In Rio de Janeiro it is extremely common to use the word "neguinho" as a slang, I live in this city and I say it myself all the time. It's not racist slang, it's a popular and old slang in the area that generalizes when you're too lazy to speak or remember people's names. You simply say, "ah, that neguinho over there" instead of saying "ah, that person over there". It shouldn't be a reason for so much commotion, but it's an election year in Brazil, the left wants to destroy the right and that's on the agenda. There are people out there who are very mentally addicted to politics who see a racial problem in anything. Piquet is known in Brazil for being rude, perhaps old-fashioned, but not racist. His manner as a person was molded into the pattern of his time. Gtroviz ( talk) 22:55, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
Going back further, the article says Piquet called Nigel Mansell an "uneducated blockhead", his wife Roseanne "ugly", Ayrton Senna "gay" and Enzo Ferrari "senile". Mansell's 1995 autobiography is given as the source for Mansell being unhappy about this, and we helpfully have a page reference, but it's not clear from the article whether that book provides a specific quotation of all four insults, and whether the footnote is supposed to be the source for the whole paragraph in our article or just Mansell's reaction. Perhaps someone who has access to it can check. If we are going to attribute specific words to people, we ought to have a specific source. Beorhtwulf ( talk) 10:38, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
Nelson has recently bought out a business along FL SR 80/Southern Blvd, named Piquet Entertainment and Race Park. Figured I’d let y’all know, as a south florida local who drives past it all the time, and as an F1 fan who’s dating another F1 fan lol 2601:58A:4100:27E0:40A0:9D77:123:EA11 ( talk) 07:49, 22 April 2023 (UTC)