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Is this vowel supposed to be rounded or not rounded??
Although this symbol is used for transcription, isn't the Portuguese vowel higher than this, mid-open or even mid? kwami 01:25, 2005 August 17 (UTC)
I am removing the Portuguese example but keeping it here, in case people decide it should go back:
In Lisbon this vowel is an exemplar of [ə]. It is higher than [ɛ] and [ɔ], and lower than [e] and [o]. At least according to the vowel chart of the IPA Handbook.
The symbol <ɐ> for unstressed a belongs to a non-IPA tradition of rotating a vowel to indicate its unstressed value. Likewise, unstressed e is transcribed <ə>, though it is not [ə] phonetically. kwami 22:25, 2005 August 17 (UTC)
A vast majority of U.S. English speakers actually do use the phonetic value ʌ in words like but and cut. I know I do, for instance, as does nearly everyone else I've spoken to who isn't from the South (and I've done a lot of travelling). I'm going to update both pages with a note that GA pronunciation of the "short u" sound varies. Dave 06:49, September 8, 2005 (UTC)
Aeusoes1, why did you put fake meanings in? -lysdexia 01:37, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
If you're talking about the nut/cut thing, that was an error. I've fixed it and have removed the cleanup tags. In the future, don't be afraid to fix such errors yourself. Ƶ§œš¹ [aɪm ˈfɻɛ̃ⁿdˡi] 01:43, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
The article states that "the /ɐː/ of car may be fronted to /ɐː/ for some speakers". The problem is that the symbol used doesn't represent a different sound at all. What is /ɐː/ sometimes fronted to? /æː/, /œː/, /ɛː/, /øː/, /eː/, /yː/, /iː/...? (If it's fronted to any of the last six, it would also be raised). Does anybody know what the /ɐː/ of car may be fronted to for some speakers? Sw258 ( talk) 11:10, 13 October 2009 (UTC)
The sounds for this seems bogus. Is he supposed to be saying it twice ? Lathamibird ( talk) 07:19, 2 December 2014 (UTC)
Due to vowel harmony and vowel reduction/centralisation (which is also found in many Valencian dialects), final unstressed /a/ may approach to [ɞ̞] in cases like porta (door) and [ɜ̞] in cases like festa! (party!). Also in further cases it can become palatalised and velarised, which makes it further front or back. — Jɑuмe ( dis-me) 01:29, 28 January 2016 (UTC) Shall I add all the distinct allophones of unstressed /a/? — Jɑuмe ( dis-me) 01:59, 28 January 2016 (UTC)
@ JaumeR: It's hard to talk to someone who basically ignores what I say. I told you (twice) that it is not about Valencian having more than one variants of [ɐ], but about the presence of more than one Valencian example, which is not needed (it's not the article Valencian, which is the appropriate place for such fine details). I'm reverting again, please actually read my edit summaries in the future. Peter238 ( talk) 04:24, 1 March 2016 (UTC)
Since Peter238 asked for outside opinions, here's one. It seems like this same situation occurs with a lot of languages: where the language has multiple phonemes or allophones that could be all be listed in the same phone page. For instance, for an extreme example, Ubykh has five uvular stop phonemes: /qʲ q qʷ qˁ qˁʷ/. So, Ubykh should get to have five examples at voiceless uvular stop, but only one example is listed: [qʰɜ] (I guess that's a case of /q/). So, if Ubykh gets only one example, why should Valencian have more than one?
Ubykh is an extreme case, but many languages have unaspirated and aspirated stops, /p pʰ/, or plain and palatalized, /p pʲ/. Currently all these variants aren't listed, though they are often explained in the Notes column. If Valencian gets two examples, then all these other languages should get as many examples as they could have, and there will be a lot of work to do, and the lists will be very long.
I did have a crazy idea for a compromise. What if there's a short example that showcases both of these Valencian [ɐ]-like vowels? Not sure if that's possible, but whatever. — Eru· tuon 09:04, 1 March 2016 (UTC)
No part of the Arabic example and explanation "Allophone of short /a/ in unstressed syllables for Persian Gulf speakers." is to be found in the source provided. Furthermore, "Persian Gulf speakers" is an ambiguous term as it can refer to Gulf Arabic or the dialects of Peninsular Arabic (including Gulf Arabic). -- KoveytBud ( talk) 01:37, 18 April 2017 (UTC)
I noticed the absence of Icelandic in the chart. I don't know of any reliable sources for this, but just from listening it seems like unstressed /a/ is often realized in Icelandic as [ɐ]. The Icelandic phonology article doesn't mention this, and I haven't found any specific reliable sources. Anyone else hear this? 162.247.45.152 ( talk) 18:08, 6 July 2017 (UTC)
All this does is create an extra step in getting readers to the right information. I'm nominating this for deletion and redirecting Ɐ (IPA) to Near-open central unrounded vowel which is where it needs to go per IPA. Pariah24 ( talk) 17:33, 3 September 2017 (UTC)
![]() | → Talk:Mid central vowel#Challenging the recent edits by Kbb2, especially concerning German |
-- mach 🙈🙉🙊 17:00, 4 November 2018 (UTC)
I find it hard to believe that this sound clip in this article is actually of the near-open central vowel. It sounds very different to my ears from how this vowel is pronounced in the languages and dialects I speak (British English and European Portuguese), nor does it sound like any of the vowels I hear in the small russian clip found in this same article. To my ears it is far closer to an open central vowel.
Is this a mistake? Is there a better quality clip that could be used instead? 80.2.140.122 ( talk) 13:54, 7 March 2021 (UTC)
As a Vietnamese, the example "chếch" is wrong. ê is pronounced like e (Close-mid front unrounded vowel).
A correct example would be "ba" (translation in English is the number three) Kevingb1 ( talk) 17:34, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
![]() | This article was nominated for deletion on 3 September 2017. The result of the discussion was keep. |
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||
|
![]() | This article links to one or more target anchors that no longer exist.
Please help fix the broken anchors. You can remove this template after fixing the problems. |
Reporting errors |
Is this vowel supposed to be rounded or not rounded??
Although this symbol is used for transcription, isn't the Portuguese vowel higher than this, mid-open or even mid? kwami 01:25, 2005 August 17 (UTC)
I am removing the Portuguese example but keeping it here, in case people decide it should go back:
In Lisbon this vowel is an exemplar of [ə]. It is higher than [ɛ] and [ɔ], and lower than [e] and [o]. At least according to the vowel chart of the IPA Handbook.
The symbol <ɐ> for unstressed a belongs to a non-IPA tradition of rotating a vowel to indicate its unstressed value. Likewise, unstressed e is transcribed <ə>, though it is not [ə] phonetically. kwami 22:25, 2005 August 17 (UTC)
A vast majority of U.S. English speakers actually do use the phonetic value ʌ in words like but and cut. I know I do, for instance, as does nearly everyone else I've spoken to who isn't from the South (and I've done a lot of travelling). I'm going to update both pages with a note that GA pronunciation of the "short u" sound varies. Dave 06:49, September 8, 2005 (UTC)
Aeusoes1, why did you put fake meanings in? -lysdexia 01:37, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
If you're talking about the nut/cut thing, that was an error. I've fixed it and have removed the cleanup tags. In the future, don't be afraid to fix such errors yourself. Ƶ§œš¹ [aɪm ˈfɻɛ̃ⁿdˡi] 01:43, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
The article states that "the /ɐː/ of car may be fronted to /ɐː/ for some speakers". The problem is that the symbol used doesn't represent a different sound at all. What is /ɐː/ sometimes fronted to? /æː/, /œː/, /ɛː/, /øː/, /eː/, /yː/, /iː/...? (If it's fronted to any of the last six, it would also be raised). Does anybody know what the /ɐː/ of car may be fronted to for some speakers? Sw258 ( talk) 11:10, 13 October 2009 (UTC)
The sounds for this seems bogus. Is he supposed to be saying it twice ? Lathamibird ( talk) 07:19, 2 December 2014 (UTC)
Due to vowel harmony and vowel reduction/centralisation (which is also found in many Valencian dialects), final unstressed /a/ may approach to [ɞ̞] in cases like porta (door) and [ɜ̞] in cases like festa! (party!). Also in further cases it can become palatalised and velarised, which makes it further front or back. — Jɑuмe ( dis-me) 01:29, 28 January 2016 (UTC) Shall I add all the distinct allophones of unstressed /a/? — Jɑuмe ( dis-me) 01:59, 28 January 2016 (UTC)
@ JaumeR: It's hard to talk to someone who basically ignores what I say. I told you (twice) that it is not about Valencian having more than one variants of [ɐ], but about the presence of more than one Valencian example, which is not needed (it's not the article Valencian, which is the appropriate place for such fine details). I'm reverting again, please actually read my edit summaries in the future. Peter238 ( talk) 04:24, 1 March 2016 (UTC)
Since Peter238 asked for outside opinions, here's one. It seems like this same situation occurs with a lot of languages: where the language has multiple phonemes or allophones that could be all be listed in the same phone page. For instance, for an extreme example, Ubykh has five uvular stop phonemes: /qʲ q qʷ qˁ qˁʷ/. So, Ubykh should get to have five examples at voiceless uvular stop, but only one example is listed: [qʰɜ] (I guess that's a case of /q/). So, if Ubykh gets only one example, why should Valencian have more than one?
Ubykh is an extreme case, but many languages have unaspirated and aspirated stops, /p pʰ/, or plain and palatalized, /p pʲ/. Currently all these variants aren't listed, though they are often explained in the Notes column. If Valencian gets two examples, then all these other languages should get as many examples as they could have, and there will be a lot of work to do, and the lists will be very long.
I did have a crazy idea for a compromise. What if there's a short example that showcases both of these Valencian [ɐ]-like vowels? Not sure if that's possible, but whatever. — Eru· tuon 09:04, 1 March 2016 (UTC)
No part of the Arabic example and explanation "Allophone of short /a/ in unstressed syllables for Persian Gulf speakers." is to be found in the source provided. Furthermore, "Persian Gulf speakers" is an ambiguous term as it can refer to Gulf Arabic or the dialects of Peninsular Arabic (including Gulf Arabic). -- KoveytBud ( talk) 01:37, 18 April 2017 (UTC)
I noticed the absence of Icelandic in the chart. I don't know of any reliable sources for this, but just from listening it seems like unstressed /a/ is often realized in Icelandic as [ɐ]. The Icelandic phonology article doesn't mention this, and I haven't found any specific reliable sources. Anyone else hear this? 162.247.45.152 ( talk) 18:08, 6 July 2017 (UTC)
All this does is create an extra step in getting readers to the right information. I'm nominating this for deletion and redirecting Ɐ (IPA) to Near-open central unrounded vowel which is where it needs to go per IPA. Pariah24 ( talk) 17:33, 3 September 2017 (UTC)
![]() | → Talk:Mid central vowel#Challenging the recent edits by Kbb2, especially concerning German |
-- mach 🙈🙉🙊 17:00, 4 November 2018 (UTC)
I find it hard to believe that this sound clip in this article is actually of the near-open central vowel. It sounds very different to my ears from how this vowel is pronounced in the languages and dialects I speak (British English and European Portuguese), nor does it sound like any of the vowels I hear in the small russian clip found in this same article. To my ears it is far closer to an open central vowel.
Is this a mistake? Is there a better quality clip that could be used instead? 80.2.140.122 ( talk) 13:54, 7 March 2021 (UTC)
As a Vietnamese, the example "chếch" is wrong. ê is pronounced like e (Close-mid front unrounded vowel).
A correct example would be "ba" (translation in English is the number three) Kevingb1 ( talk) 17:34, 3 March 2024 (UTC)