![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
Just a suggestion: Should not a breakdown of Stephenson's style include a mention of his typical characters - e.g. strong independent female, intelligent levelheaded male? --Anon 1 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.181.251.66 ( talk • contribs) 24 September 2004 (UCT) (UTC)
Also, a discussion of Mr. Stephenson's works should mention his amazingly blunt endings. I know most people enjoy some sort of postscript, but Mr. Stevenson leaves the reader to speculate far too often. To the point where it can be quite frustrating. The reader is left feeling as if the book is incomplete. With so much attention to detail and long buildups, one feels that a conclusion is deserved. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.93.78.135 ( talk • contribs) 04:35, 1 November 2004 (UTC)
How about more on Stephenson's In the Beginning ... Was the Command Line? It's (along with Snow Crash the work which gained him credibility among hackers, and it's also an important/influential work on the command line/GUI conflict, and other matters. No other authors (SF or otherwise) AFAIK, have shown that much intererest in in the history and current state of computing. (But see the linked Slashdot interview for his current views on that work.) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.227.156.138 ( talk • contribs) 23:12, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
The sidebar says that Stephenson's magnum opus was/is Cryptonomicon. In light of well over two thousand pages worth of Baroque Cycle, can this be considered accurate? This seems like unverifiable opinion. Is there a source somewhere with Stephenson saying something to the effect of "I consider Cryptonomicon to be my magnum opus?" —Preceding unsigned comment added by SebastianI ( talk • contribs)
The Baroque Cycle is published in 3 volumes in the U.S. and 8 in other places. Since Stephenson is a U.S. author, I think the Manual of Style would suggest preference towards U.S. publishing formats, just as it does towards U.S. spelling. Or maybe mention of both? Ideas? Wyatt Riot 13:57, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
I removed the Fantastic Fiction biography of Neal Stephenson (available at: [4]) as it is both unencylopedic and possibly a copyright violation. The 'quote' which had been placed in the article was actually the entire biography from the website, and the website states this is 'Copyright © 2007 FantasticFiction.co.uk'. Moreover, while it's baroque style makes it an amusing read, it's a bit out of place here. I'm hardly going to die in a ditch over this, but the whole thing shouldn't be added, and there needs to be a good reason for adding a section. -- Nick Dowling 23:57, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
There's lots of good factual information about Neal in the Background section, but none of it is referenced. What is the best way to remedy this? I'm concerned that some of it may be unintentionally mistaken. ThreeE 00:05, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
"This penchant for complexity and detail suggests a baroque writer. His book The Diamond Age features "neo-Victorian" characters and employs Victorian-era literary conceits, and perhaps could be considered as falling into the steampunk genre. [...] Characteristic of his style is the "breakdown in events", typically about three quarters into the novel. This is an acceleration in plot development, accompanied by chaos, confusion, and often violence, and an abrupt ending with no conventional denouement and many loose ends. This pattern holds for all of Stephenson's books, including (when taken as a whole) The Baroque Cycle."
Well. Says who? -- R. Wolff 14:41, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
I've read in a book, and I'm fairly sure that it's either Neil Stephenson, Greg Bear or Dan Simmons, a Native American legend involving vagina dentatas belonging to three "spider women". I wanted to add this to the Vagina Dentata article. Does anyone know if this comes from Stephenson? Tomandlu ( talk) 09:31, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
Currently Mr. Stephenson's work is divided into two sections - Fiction and non-Fiction. A great deal of his non-fiction works are articles from Wired, the New York Times and other sources. Is this distinction enough that his "works" section should be divided into Fiction (books), non-Fiction (books) and then articles? What standard has been applied elsewhere? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nightsoil ( talk • contribs) 17:54, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
Is there anywhere on the Internet for more up-to-date Stephenson information beyond the horribly outdated official pages? Maybe Wikipedia is it... - 61.195.156.129 04:09, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
Should the Stephen Bury pseudonym have it's own page? If yes, shouldn't their be a couple of sentences regarding this & an obvious link from the Neal Stephenson page? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kea2 ( talk • contribs) 03:46, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
See what you all think of it. I think that the statement that Stephenson is best known for 'postcyberpunk' is unsupportable now; the Baroque Cycles and Anathem don't obviously fit in that genre, and he's certainly as well known for them as he is for his earlier works. Leoniceno ( talk) 06:09, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
In Quicksilver Stephenson refers to Cromwell's son Roger, but the name was Richard and Judge Jeferrys "keeping an appointment with Jack Ketch". Jefferys died of kidney stones whilst in protective custody. I read his account of Newgate Prison, but I now suspect that the prison he refers to in Daniel Waterhouses's childhood was the prison built in 1672, not the pre-1666 one which it should be. he also refers to theBlack Dogge Tavern inside Newgate Prison. however the Black Dog was a tavern in Newgate Market where William Penn was imprisoned in 1670 when there was no Newgate Prison as it was still being rebuilt. What do people think? Should I put these on the substantive article under a "mistakes" paragraph?-- Streona ( talk) 16:43, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
Thanks. Done it.-- Streona ( talk) 17:38, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
Anyone happen to know why Stephenson insists on calling all things Japan "Nipponese"? I've seen this in Snow Crash and Cryptonomicon. I've also heard it's kind of an offensive thing to say, so does anyone know the story? -- Twinxor 22:08, 12 Oct 2004 (UTC)
I've spent some time studying Japanese language and living there. "Nippon" and "Nihon" are two names that Japanese people themselves use to refer to their country. A Japanese person is "Nihon jin", possibly also "Nippon jin" but I have never heard the second term in use, probably because "Nippon" is considered somewhat archaic. This would lead me to conclude that Stephenson is trying to anglicize a Japanese word, creating an additional way to refer to Japanese, a way that is less ambiguous than "Japanese" as it can refer to both language and people. -- Jasna, Jan 6th 2006
Reading Snow Crash, I assumed Nipponese was used because it happens to be hip in the near future. But finding the term also in Cryptonomicon and spanning different eras, I was forced to conclude the latter takes place in an alternate timeline (where people as a rule say Nipponese). A-giau 19:35, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
I would be quite surprised if no one has ever asked Stephenson about this. His answer might be worth including. A-giau 19:37, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
See Japan#Etymology for details. -- Quiddity 00:45, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
I've moved the following interviews from the external links section due to WP:LINKFARM concerns:
Please feel free to integrate them into the article using inline citations where appropriate. Skomorokh 20:22, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
Looks like you guys left off the book Zodiac. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.241.19.12 ( talk) 21:21, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
I'd like to address a couple of the more recent changes and reverts to the article which I don't think are particularly helpful.
Anyways, that's my $0.02. Ideas or comments? Wyatt Riot ( talk) 17:29, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
That Stephenson lived in Ames, Iowa from the age of seven until he graduated from high school would seem to explain a couple of bits of regional dialect in Anathem:
(The latter uses the English word with in the same way as the German word mit; my suspicion is 19th-century German immigration into the upper Midwest could explain it). Michael Hardy ( talk) 21:13, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
I'm not sure about the origin of "come with," (which one hears a lot in the midwest), but "parking ramp" is a distinct Wisconsin/Iowa term. Possibly other states as well. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Yourmomlikesmusictheory ( talk • contribs) 23:00, 19 January 2012 (UTC)
This article needs more CLANG. I'd say it needs its own article, but right now I'm a bit swamped with other stuff and I'm not very good at starting to write stuff (rather than modifying already existing text) anyway, so... I might be able to get around to writing some stuff, eventually, but there should be others who can fix something a lot sooner (and probably better).
Here's some good sources, if someone else wants to write:
The official homepage (as far as I can tell)
The kickstarter page
Reports in newspapers and such things:
http://www.edge-online.com/features/neal-stephenson-clang
http://venturebeat.com/2012/06/11/neal-stephensons-kickstarter-is-the-pinnacle-of-crowd-sourcing/
http://techland.time.com/2012/06/13/author-neal-stephensons-500k-quest-to-build-a-better-sword-game/
http://www.forbes.com/sites/danielnyegriffiths/2012/06/11/neal-stephenson-clang-kickstarter/
http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2012/06/13/neal-stephensons-clang-is-a-kickstarter-devoted-to-sword-fighting
http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2012/06/13/sword-fighting-with-the-razer-hydra-in-clang/
http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2012/07/06/an-interview-with-neal-stephenson-on-his-sword-fighting-kickstarter-project-clang/
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2012-06-15-Stephensons-racket
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-07-05-the-duellist-neal-stephenson-interview
--
ZarlanTheGreen (
talk)
01:34, 13 July 2012 (UTC)
Information on CLANG should be included. Nemissimo ( talk) 00:20, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
More extensive information, than the one sentence, on CLANG is needed; expand section. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wikimafiacapo ( talk • contribs) 02:25, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
I've read this book a dozen times and am a tad baffled by the para describing it.
The existence of Nell gets no mention at all, though she's a heroic character as, or nearly as significant as John Percival Hackworth, and her life is just as dramatically influenced by one of the creatives referenced in the para as creating the "amalgamation character" JPH. Next to him, Nell is the main other major character throughout the novel.
I also don't understand the characterisation of this novel as being "set in a grim future world of limited resources populated by hard edged survivalists"(!) Only one character in the book experienced this, and it's only referred to briefly and in past tense -- the character has long since left that world behind. The Victorian culture he adopts, and the one that is most prevalent in the story, is quite advanced and certainly not at all "survivalist". 75.48.2.168 ( talk) 00:21, 18 October 2014 (UTC)
Does someone care to add some information on Seveneves? Currently the latest entry on current projects is "Stephenson is currently working on a multi-volume work, that will "have a lot to do with scientific and technological themes and how those interact with the characters and civilisation during a particular span of history". He expects the first two volumes to be released in mid-to-late 2014." Does that refer to Seveneves? Did he switch projects? I'm sure I could ferret it out, but I'm equally sure that some Stephenson fan on here has the info at their fingertips already :) Elmidae ( talk) 15:57, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
- Thanks Glv! Elmidae ( talk) 08:44, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
I have commenced a tidy-up of the Bibliography section using cite templates. Capitalization and punctuation follow standard cataloguing rules in AACR2 and RDA, as much as Wikipedia templates allow it. Feel free to continue. Sunwin1960 ( talk) 06:07, 15 November 2015 (UTC)
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I have just modified one external link on Neal Stephenson. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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Could I -- as a mostly inactive editor -- get some help making Neal's new novel Fall; or, Dodge in Hell a wikipedia quality page. A well meaning editor declared my stub page not notable and redirected it back here, which was clearly not the correct decision. I'm a little busy reading the book ATM and don't want spoil it by reading other sources for references, yet. KelleyCook ( talk) 13:06, 5 June 2019 (UTC)
This needs to be cleaned up. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Julesrules989 ( talk • contribs) 06:17, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
Just a suggestion: Should not a breakdown of Stephenson's style include a mention of his typical characters - e.g. strong independent female, intelligent levelheaded male? --Anon 1 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.181.251.66 ( talk • contribs) 24 September 2004 (UCT) (UTC)
Also, a discussion of Mr. Stephenson's works should mention his amazingly blunt endings. I know most people enjoy some sort of postscript, but Mr. Stevenson leaves the reader to speculate far too often. To the point where it can be quite frustrating. The reader is left feeling as if the book is incomplete. With so much attention to detail and long buildups, one feels that a conclusion is deserved. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.93.78.135 ( talk • contribs) 04:35, 1 November 2004 (UTC)
How about more on Stephenson's In the Beginning ... Was the Command Line? It's (along with Snow Crash the work which gained him credibility among hackers, and it's also an important/influential work on the command line/GUI conflict, and other matters. No other authors (SF or otherwise) AFAIK, have shown that much intererest in in the history and current state of computing. (But see the linked Slashdot interview for his current views on that work.) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.227.156.138 ( talk • contribs) 23:12, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
The sidebar says that Stephenson's magnum opus was/is Cryptonomicon. In light of well over two thousand pages worth of Baroque Cycle, can this be considered accurate? This seems like unverifiable opinion. Is there a source somewhere with Stephenson saying something to the effect of "I consider Cryptonomicon to be my magnum opus?" —Preceding unsigned comment added by SebastianI ( talk • contribs)
The Baroque Cycle is published in 3 volumes in the U.S. and 8 in other places. Since Stephenson is a U.S. author, I think the Manual of Style would suggest preference towards U.S. publishing formats, just as it does towards U.S. spelling. Or maybe mention of both? Ideas? Wyatt Riot 13:57, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
I removed the Fantastic Fiction biography of Neal Stephenson (available at: [4]) as it is both unencylopedic and possibly a copyright violation. The 'quote' which had been placed in the article was actually the entire biography from the website, and the website states this is 'Copyright © 2007 FantasticFiction.co.uk'. Moreover, while it's baroque style makes it an amusing read, it's a bit out of place here. I'm hardly going to die in a ditch over this, but the whole thing shouldn't be added, and there needs to be a good reason for adding a section. -- Nick Dowling 23:57, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
There's lots of good factual information about Neal in the Background section, but none of it is referenced. What is the best way to remedy this? I'm concerned that some of it may be unintentionally mistaken. ThreeE 00:05, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
"This penchant for complexity and detail suggests a baroque writer. His book The Diamond Age features "neo-Victorian" characters and employs Victorian-era literary conceits, and perhaps could be considered as falling into the steampunk genre. [...] Characteristic of his style is the "breakdown in events", typically about three quarters into the novel. This is an acceleration in plot development, accompanied by chaos, confusion, and often violence, and an abrupt ending with no conventional denouement and many loose ends. This pattern holds for all of Stephenson's books, including (when taken as a whole) The Baroque Cycle."
Well. Says who? -- R. Wolff 14:41, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
I've read in a book, and I'm fairly sure that it's either Neil Stephenson, Greg Bear or Dan Simmons, a Native American legend involving vagina dentatas belonging to three "spider women". I wanted to add this to the Vagina Dentata article. Does anyone know if this comes from Stephenson? Tomandlu ( talk) 09:31, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
Currently Mr. Stephenson's work is divided into two sections - Fiction and non-Fiction. A great deal of his non-fiction works are articles from Wired, the New York Times and other sources. Is this distinction enough that his "works" section should be divided into Fiction (books), non-Fiction (books) and then articles? What standard has been applied elsewhere? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nightsoil ( talk • contribs) 17:54, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
Is there anywhere on the Internet for more up-to-date Stephenson information beyond the horribly outdated official pages? Maybe Wikipedia is it... - 61.195.156.129 04:09, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
Should the Stephen Bury pseudonym have it's own page? If yes, shouldn't their be a couple of sentences regarding this & an obvious link from the Neal Stephenson page? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kea2 ( talk • contribs) 03:46, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
See what you all think of it. I think that the statement that Stephenson is best known for 'postcyberpunk' is unsupportable now; the Baroque Cycles and Anathem don't obviously fit in that genre, and he's certainly as well known for them as he is for his earlier works. Leoniceno ( talk) 06:09, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
In Quicksilver Stephenson refers to Cromwell's son Roger, but the name was Richard and Judge Jeferrys "keeping an appointment with Jack Ketch". Jefferys died of kidney stones whilst in protective custody. I read his account of Newgate Prison, but I now suspect that the prison he refers to in Daniel Waterhouses's childhood was the prison built in 1672, not the pre-1666 one which it should be. he also refers to theBlack Dogge Tavern inside Newgate Prison. however the Black Dog was a tavern in Newgate Market where William Penn was imprisoned in 1670 when there was no Newgate Prison as it was still being rebuilt. What do people think? Should I put these on the substantive article under a "mistakes" paragraph?-- Streona ( talk) 16:43, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
Thanks. Done it.-- Streona ( talk) 17:38, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
Anyone happen to know why Stephenson insists on calling all things Japan "Nipponese"? I've seen this in Snow Crash and Cryptonomicon. I've also heard it's kind of an offensive thing to say, so does anyone know the story? -- Twinxor 22:08, 12 Oct 2004 (UTC)
I've spent some time studying Japanese language and living there. "Nippon" and "Nihon" are two names that Japanese people themselves use to refer to their country. A Japanese person is "Nihon jin", possibly also "Nippon jin" but I have never heard the second term in use, probably because "Nippon" is considered somewhat archaic. This would lead me to conclude that Stephenson is trying to anglicize a Japanese word, creating an additional way to refer to Japanese, a way that is less ambiguous than "Japanese" as it can refer to both language and people. -- Jasna, Jan 6th 2006
Reading Snow Crash, I assumed Nipponese was used because it happens to be hip in the near future. But finding the term also in Cryptonomicon and spanning different eras, I was forced to conclude the latter takes place in an alternate timeline (where people as a rule say Nipponese). A-giau 19:35, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
I would be quite surprised if no one has ever asked Stephenson about this. His answer might be worth including. A-giau 19:37, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
See Japan#Etymology for details. -- Quiddity 00:45, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
I've moved the following interviews from the external links section due to WP:LINKFARM concerns:
Please feel free to integrate them into the article using inline citations where appropriate. Skomorokh 20:22, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
Looks like you guys left off the book Zodiac. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.241.19.12 ( talk) 21:21, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
I'd like to address a couple of the more recent changes and reverts to the article which I don't think are particularly helpful.
Anyways, that's my $0.02. Ideas or comments? Wyatt Riot ( talk) 17:29, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
That Stephenson lived in Ames, Iowa from the age of seven until he graduated from high school would seem to explain a couple of bits of regional dialect in Anathem:
(The latter uses the English word with in the same way as the German word mit; my suspicion is 19th-century German immigration into the upper Midwest could explain it). Michael Hardy ( talk) 21:13, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
I'm not sure about the origin of "come with," (which one hears a lot in the midwest), but "parking ramp" is a distinct Wisconsin/Iowa term. Possibly other states as well. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Yourmomlikesmusictheory ( talk • contribs) 23:00, 19 January 2012 (UTC)
This article needs more CLANG. I'd say it needs its own article, but right now I'm a bit swamped with other stuff and I'm not very good at starting to write stuff (rather than modifying already existing text) anyway, so... I might be able to get around to writing some stuff, eventually, but there should be others who can fix something a lot sooner (and probably better).
Here's some good sources, if someone else wants to write:
The official homepage (as far as I can tell)
The kickstarter page
Reports in newspapers and such things:
http://www.edge-online.com/features/neal-stephenson-clang
http://venturebeat.com/2012/06/11/neal-stephensons-kickstarter-is-the-pinnacle-of-crowd-sourcing/
http://techland.time.com/2012/06/13/author-neal-stephensons-500k-quest-to-build-a-better-sword-game/
http://www.forbes.com/sites/danielnyegriffiths/2012/06/11/neal-stephenson-clang-kickstarter/
http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2012/06/13/neal-stephensons-clang-is-a-kickstarter-devoted-to-sword-fighting
http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2012/06/13/sword-fighting-with-the-razer-hydra-in-clang/
http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2012/07/06/an-interview-with-neal-stephenson-on-his-sword-fighting-kickstarter-project-clang/
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2012-06-15-Stephensons-racket
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-07-05-the-duellist-neal-stephenson-interview
--
ZarlanTheGreen (
talk)
01:34, 13 July 2012 (UTC)
Information on CLANG should be included. Nemissimo ( talk) 00:20, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
More extensive information, than the one sentence, on CLANG is needed; expand section. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wikimafiacapo ( talk • contribs) 02:25, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
I've read this book a dozen times and am a tad baffled by the para describing it.
The existence of Nell gets no mention at all, though she's a heroic character as, or nearly as significant as John Percival Hackworth, and her life is just as dramatically influenced by one of the creatives referenced in the para as creating the "amalgamation character" JPH. Next to him, Nell is the main other major character throughout the novel.
I also don't understand the characterisation of this novel as being "set in a grim future world of limited resources populated by hard edged survivalists"(!) Only one character in the book experienced this, and it's only referred to briefly and in past tense -- the character has long since left that world behind. The Victorian culture he adopts, and the one that is most prevalent in the story, is quite advanced and certainly not at all "survivalist". 75.48.2.168 ( talk) 00:21, 18 October 2014 (UTC)
Does someone care to add some information on Seveneves? Currently the latest entry on current projects is "Stephenson is currently working on a multi-volume work, that will "have a lot to do with scientific and technological themes and how those interact with the characters and civilisation during a particular span of history". He expects the first two volumes to be released in mid-to-late 2014." Does that refer to Seveneves? Did he switch projects? I'm sure I could ferret it out, but I'm equally sure that some Stephenson fan on here has the info at their fingertips already :) Elmidae ( talk) 15:57, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
- Thanks Glv! Elmidae ( talk) 08:44, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
I have commenced a tidy-up of the Bibliography section using cite templates. Capitalization and punctuation follow standard cataloguing rules in AACR2 and RDA, as much as Wikipedia templates allow it. Feel free to continue. Sunwin1960 ( talk) 06:07, 15 November 2015 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Neal Stephenson. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
An editor has reviewed this edit and fixed any errors that were found.
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 20:39, 21 January 2018 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Neal Stephenson. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
An editor has reviewed this edit and fixed any errors that were found.
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 05:02, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
Could I -- as a mostly inactive editor -- get some help making Neal's new novel Fall; or, Dodge in Hell a wikipedia quality page. A well meaning editor declared my stub page not notable and redirected it back here, which was clearly not the correct decision. I'm a little busy reading the book ATM and don't want spoil it by reading other sources for references, yet. KelleyCook ( talk) 13:06, 5 June 2019 (UTC)
This needs to be cleaned up. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Julesrules989 ( talk • contribs) 06:17, 29 November 2006 (UTC)