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Warning: active arbitration remedies The contentious topics procedure applies to this article. This article is related to articles about living or recently deceased people, and edits relating to the subject (living or recently deceased) of such biographical articles, which is a contentious topic. Furthermore, the following rules apply when editing this article:
Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page. |
The result of the move request was: moved. Consensus is that the proposed title is the most common name. History swap required as there was some not-insignificant history at the target title. Jenks24 ( talk) 08:56, 20 October 2015 (UTC)
Naseem Shah →
Naz Shah –
WP:COMMONNAME. Media coverage usually refers to her as Naz, as does her
Parliamentary profile and
her Twitter Move allowed by admin only for unclear reasons. News favours
Naz over
Naseem by a large margin
AusLondonder (
talk)
00:18, 12 October 2015 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Please change "She voted for George Galloway at the Bradford West by-election in 2012" to read "She claims to have voted for George Galloway at the Bradford West by-election in 2012" or similar.
Voting in UK elections is secret and the existing statement is incapable of verification.
Article needs coverage of Shah's aggressive, race-hatred of Jews. E.M.Gregory ( talk) 18:58, 28 April 2016 (UTC)
Why not quote Ken Livingstone's words?
>following his allegations that Hitler was a Zionist
He made no such allegations. Words have meaning and distorting them brings Wikipedia into disrepute. What he said is not long.
"What he said is not long". Do you mean long or wrong? If you mean long, that's pretty meaningless. If you mean wrong, then you are saying what Livingstone said is correct. And what Livingstone said is wrong. Hitler never backed Jewish migration to Israel. For many reasons. Wythy ( talk) 17:57, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
131.111.184.102 ( talk) 11:21, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
Suggested additional source -- in quoting responses to the controversy around Shah, it's probably relevant to quote another extremely prominent UK voice, George Galloway. See his statement: http://ahtribune.com/religion/856-naz-shah-anti-semitism.html. Thanks. SM-Mara ( talk) 18:32, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
I don't know anything particular about the American Herald Tribune, just know Galloway is certainly an internationally known figure. Not sure it's accurate to say Naz Shah has "accepted" that she is anti-Semitic from what I've seen, though I may not have read everything. SM-Mara ( talk) 01:08, 3 May 2016 (UTC)
The article says she was married by arrangement. Is the marriage now dissolved? Has she remarried or is she single, or what? Wythy ( talk) 17:49, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
>a Facebook meme in August 2014 supporting the relocation of Israel to the USA.
"...a satirical dig at proposals to force the Palestinians to move into Jordan or Saudi Arabia – the point being that both Israel and the USA would object passionately to the proposal in the image, so why is it okay to inflict a similar situation on Palestinians, Jordanians and Saudis?"
The meme was not created to support the relocation of Israel to the USA. Professor Finkelstein did not reblog it that way.
Not mentioning that the post was satirical is deeply worrying and brings Wikipedia into disrepute.
131.111.184.102 ( talk) 12:53, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
>and in September appeared to compare Israeli policies to those of Adolf Hitler.
Would it be a good idea to give the source of the words attached to that meme, Martin Luther King's Letter from Birmingham Jail 1963-04-16?
"We should never forget that everything Adolf Hitler did in Germany was “legal” and everything the Hungarian freedom fighters did in Hungary was “illegal.” It was “illegal” to aid and comfort a Jew in Hitler’s Germany. Even so, I am sure that, had I lived in Germany at the time, I would have aided and comforted my Jewish brothers." — Martin Luther King (Letter from Birmingham Jail 1963-04-16)
https://web.cn.edu/kwheeler/documents/Letter_Birmingham_Jail.pdf
131.111.184.102 ( talk) 12:46, 6 May 2016 (UTC)
Could you explain what you mean a bit more? I can't see "and in September appeared to compare Israeli policies to those of Adolf Hitler." anywhere in the article. Absolutelypuremilk ( talk) 14:56, 6 May 2016 (UTC)
/info/en/?search=Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Words_to_watch#Expressions_of_doubt apparent / appeared
"and in September appeared to compare Israeli policies to those of Adolf Hitler."
Though it is in the reprinted Jewish Chronicle caption it is a very embarrassing misrepresentation and brings Wikipedia into disrepute, "appeared" to some but obviously she did not. Nor did her source Martin Luther King.
"...never forget that everything Adolf Hitler did in Germany was legal..."
"Martin Luther King, Jr. famously said this in response to questions about civil rights and the law. The point was that morality and the law are not always on the same side. A state can legislate immorally."
131.111.184.102 ( talk) 13:20, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
Hi, I see that Ms Shah's recents comments which've received mainstream media coverage is rightly being covered on her page. I've tried to include a similar controversy and views section on Yisrael Katz's page but it keeps getting removed by users claiming it's an undue/unbalanced/false representation due to percentage of information compared to rest of page. I don't see this claim being made here where around 80% of page is about her recent comments.
Because at the end of the day, surely if information is notable enough to be covered by media then it's useful and important for Wikipedia readers to find a version of it which considers all viewpoints rather than from particular angle elsewhere. But I can't understand why same standard isn't being used on both pages.
I must strongly stress I've no intention to encourage any kind of pro/anti left-wing/right-wing, Labour/Conservatives, Israeli/Palestinian etc comments. Just neutral, unbiased, partial opinion about balance that applies here to also apply there. Any takers? 86.154.254.204 ( talk) 17:15, 6 May 2016 (UTC)
The big source for the story seems to be a Sun article. Wikipedia doesn't seem to let the Sun be used as a source, so instead people seem to have used a story in a local paper that seems to selectively quote the rebuttal from Shah's office. Also used as a citation was a Yahoo story based on the Sun story which includes a link to the Sun story.
The problem with this is the local paper omits the Shah spokesman making the point that the retweet was corrected after only a few minutes and tries to make it sound like Shah only retracted under pressure 'later' on (later implies hours/days, not minutes). The spokesman is unlikely to lie about something that can easily be proved by anyone paying attention to her twitter account.
Fortunately the yahoo story does include the full line:
"This was a genuine accident eight days ago that was rectified within minutes. To suggest otherwise is absolute nonsense."
So I've cited that as a source to correct it. I later noticed the line is also quoted in the Telegraph & Argus article about the petition that was cited later on, so added that as second source for the quote.
It's an unusual situation where a source that's hostile to Naz Shah actually contains the bit of information key to assessing the facts in her defense. 77.103.105.67 ( talk) 16:33, 17 December 2017 (UTC)
The "name" in Urdu does not read "Naseem Shah," but instead translates to "dirty dog." The correct transcription can clearly be found on the Urdu page for Naz Shah. 209.160.219.10 ( talk) 19:53, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
Her correct name in Urdu has been added ( Urdu: نسیم شاہ)
Wikipedia is prone to this sort of nasty lurking incitement to hatred, good that you noticed it!
131.111.184.102 ( talk) 13:35, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
Would something the Jewish Chronicle thought significant, the words of a Holocaust survivor prominent in Bradford, be useful in showing balance? (I realise Holocaust deniers will object)
Naz Shah has always worked closely with the Jewish community in Bradford, “She came to the synagogue and it was her first function after being elected. We have become close friends and she has become a friend of the Jews. We are very close.” — Rudi Leavor (Chair of Bradford Reform Synagogue in Naz Shah’s Bradford constituency) [1]
Rudi Liebowitz (later Rudi Leavor) was born in Berlin in 1926 but moved to Bradford on 10 November 1937.
131.111.184.102 ( talk) 13:46, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
References
The article was one of the worst attack WP:BLPs I have seen on Wikipedia: absolutely shameful. I have removed some cruft..it could still be trimmed more. What need to be expanded is the "Parliamentary and political record" part. Presently we have a lot about what other people says about her....little about what she says herself! This obviously should be changed.... Huldra ( talk) 23:49, 20 July 2018 (UTC)
Nobody has demanded that the socalled antisemitism affair (when did retweeting something from Norman Finkelstein homepage become a "scandal"? Seriously???) isn't covered...it is, in great detail. What the discussion is about is whether a couple of soon deleted tweets should be covered. I think not. This is a storm in a tea cup, and you all know it. Huldra ( talk) 21:23, 23 July 2018 (UTC)
References
The language I used was anti-Semitic, it was offensive," she said. "What I did was I hurt people and the language that was the clear anti-Semitic language
Okay let's split this up. Should her resignation be covered in the lede? Absolutelypuremilk ( talk) 07:29, 24 July 2018 (UTC)
References
Huldra would like to remove the Twitter controversies section. I disagree with removing the content, but am happy for the content to be worked into the rest of the text and the section header removed. Thoughts? Absolutelypuremilk ( talk) 06:37, 26 July 2018 (UTC)
As an uninvolved administrator I am applying the following discretionary sanction to this article under WP:NEWBLPBAN: Naz Shah is placed under 1RR indefinitely and content challenged on BLP grounds can only be restored by explicit talk page consensus. This has been logged at WP:AELOG/2018 and added the neccesary edit notice to this page [4]. TonyBallioni ( talk) 19:44, 26 July 2018 (UTC)
From what I gather looking at old revisions, this page used to have multiple subsections under "Political career" that included numerous controversies. I see why this was removed however at the moment the "Parliamentary career" section feels bloated and disorganised, refactoring to include a single "Controversies" subsection would likely improve readability.
Forgive me for any mistakes since I'm new to this, but i'm also happy to do the edit myself if people approve. EvanM2015 ( talk) 16:13, 11 July 2021 (UTC) " "
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
This page is about an active politician who is running for office or has recently run for office, is in office and campaigning for re-election, or is involved in some current political conflict or controversy. Because of this, this article is at increased risk of biased editing, talk-page trolling, and simple vandalism. |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Warning: active arbitration remedies The contentious topics procedure applies to this article. This article is related to articles about living or recently deceased people, and edits relating to the subject (living or recently deceased) of such biographical articles, which is a contentious topic. Furthermore, the following rules apply when editing this article:
Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page. |
The result of the move request was: moved. Consensus is that the proposed title is the most common name. History swap required as there was some not-insignificant history at the target title. Jenks24 ( talk) 08:56, 20 October 2015 (UTC)
Naseem Shah →
Naz Shah –
WP:COMMONNAME. Media coverage usually refers to her as Naz, as does her
Parliamentary profile and
her Twitter Move allowed by admin only for unclear reasons. News favours
Naz over
Naseem by a large margin
AusLondonder (
talk)
00:18, 12 October 2015 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Please change "She voted for George Galloway at the Bradford West by-election in 2012" to read "She claims to have voted for George Galloway at the Bradford West by-election in 2012" or similar.
Voting in UK elections is secret and the existing statement is incapable of verification.
Article needs coverage of Shah's aggressive, race-hatred of Jews. E.M.Gregory ( talk) 18:58, 28 April 2016 (UTC)
Why not quote Ken Livingstone's words?
>following his allegations that Hitler was a Zionist
He made no such allegations. Words have meaning and distorting them brings Wikipedia into disrepute. What he said is not long.
"What he said is not long". Do you mean long or wrong? If you mean long, that's pretty meaningless. If you mean wrong, then you are saying what Livingstone said is correct. And what Livingstone said is wrong. Hitler never backed Jewish migration to Israel. For many reasons. Wythy ( talk) 17:57, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
131.111.184.102 ( talk) 11:21, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
Suggested additional source -- in quoting responses to the controversy around Shah, it's probably relevant to quote another extremely prominent UK voice, George Galloway. See his statement: http://ahtribune.com/religion/856-naz-shah-anti-semitism.html. Thanks. SM-Mara ( talk) 18:32, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
I don't know anything particular about the American Herald Tribune, just know Galloway is certainly an internationally known figure. Not sure it's accurate to say Naz Shah has "accepted" that she is anti-Semitic from what I've seen, though I may not have read everything. SM-Mara ( talk) 01:08, 3 May 2016 (UTC)
The article says she was married by arrangement. Is the marriage now dissolved? Has she remarried or is she single, or what? Wythy ( talk) 17:49, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
>a Facebook meme in August 2014 supporting the relocation of Israel to the USA.
"...a satirical dig at proposals to force the Palestinians to move into Jordan or Saudi Arabia – the point being that both Israel and the USA would object passionately to the proposal in the image, so why is it okay to inflict a similar situation on Palestinians, Jordanians and Saudis?"
The meme was not created to support the relocation of Israel to the USA. Professor Finkelstein did not reblog it that way.
Not mentioning that the post was satirical is deeply worrying and brings Wikipedia into disrepute.
131.111.184.102 ( talk) 12:53, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
>and in September appeared to compare Israeli policies to those of Adolf Hitler.
Would it be a good idea to give the source of the words attached to that meme, Martin Luther King's Letter from Birmingham Jail 1963-04-16?
"We should never forget that everything Adolf Hitler did in Germany was “legal” and everything the Hungarian freedom fighters did in Hungary was “illegal.” It was “illegal” to aid and comfort a Jew in Hitler’s Germany. Even so, I am sure that, had I lived in Germany at the time, I would have aided and comforted my Jewish brothers." — Martin Luther King (Letter from Birmingham Jail 1963-04-16)
https://web.cn.edu/kwheeler/documents/Letter_Birmingham_Jail.pdf
131.111.184.102 ( talk) 12:46, 6 May 2016 (UTC)
Could you explain what you mean a bit more? I can't see "and in September appeared to compare Israeli policies to those of Adolf Hitler." anywhere in the article. Absolutelypuremilk ( talk) 14:56, 6 May 2016 (UTC)
/info/en/?search=Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Words_to_watch#Expressions_of_doubt apparent / appeared
"and in September appeared to compare Israeli policies to those of Adolf Hitler."
Though it is in the reprinted Jewish Chronicle caption it is a very embarrassing misrepresentation and brings Wikipedia into disrepute, "appeared" to some but obviously she did not. Nor did her source Martin Luther King.
"...never forget that everything Adolf Hitler did in Germany was legal..."
"Martin Luther King, Jr. famously said this in response to questions about civil rights and the law. The point was that morality and the law are not always on the same side. A state can legislate immorally."
131.111.184.102 ( talk) 13:20, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
Hi, I see that Ms Shah's recents comments which've received mainstream media coverage is rightly being covered on her page. I've tried to include a similar controversy and views section on Yisrael Katz's page but it keeps getting removed by users claiming it's an undue/unbalanced/false representation due to percentage of information compared to rest of page. I don't see this claim being made here where around 80% of page is about her recent comments.
Because at the end of the day, surely if information is notable enough to be covered by media then it's useful and important for Wikipedia readers to find a version of it which considers all viewpoints rather than from particular angle elsewhere. But I can't understand why same standard isn't being used on both pages.
I must strongly stress I've no intention to encourage any kind of pro/anti left-wing/right-wing, Labour/Conservatives, Israeli/Palestinian etc comments. Just neutral, unbiased, partial opinion about balance that applies here to also apply there. Any takers? 86.154.254.204 ( talk) 17:15, 6 May 2016 (UTC)
The big source for the story seems to be a Sun article. Wikipedia doesn't seem to let the Sun be used as a source, so instead people seem to have used a story in a local paper that seems to selectively quote the rebuttal from Shah's office. Also used as a citation was a Yahoo story based on the Sun story which includes a link to the Sun story.
The problem with this is the local paper omits the Shah spokesman making the point that the retweet was corrected after only a few minutes and tries to make it sound like Shah only retracted under pressure 'later' on (later implies hours/days, not minutes). The spokesman is unlikely to lie about something that can easily be proved by anyone paying attention to her twitter account.
Fortunately the yahoo story does include the full line:
"This was a genuine accident eight days ago that was rectified within minutes. To suggest otherwise is absolute nonsense."
So I've cited that as a source to correct it. I later noticed the line is also quoted in the Telegraph & Argus article about the petition that was cited later on, so added that as second source for the quote.
It's an unusual situation where a source that's hostile to Naz Shah actually contains the bit of information key to assessing the facts in her defense. 77.103.105.67 ( talk) 16:33, 17 December 2017 (UTC)
The "name" in Urdu does not read "Naseem Shah," but instead translates to "dirty dog." The correct transcription can clearly be found on the Urdu page for Naz Shah. 209.160.219.10 ( talk) 19:53, 3 April 2018 (UTC)
Her correct name in Urdu has been added ( Urdu: نسیم شاہ)
Wikipedia is prone to this sort of nasty lurking incitement to hatred, good that you noticed it!
131.111.184.102 ( talk) 13:35, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
Would something the Jewish Chronicle thought significant, the words of a Holocaust survivor prominent in Bradford, be useful in showing balance? (I realise Holocaust deniers will object)
Naz Shah has always worked closely with the Jewish community in Bradford, “She came to the synagogue and it was her first function after being elected. We have become close friends and she has become a friend of the Jews. We are very close.” — Rudi Leavor (Chair of Bradford Reform Synagogue in Naz Shah’s Bradford constituency) [1]
Rudi Liebowitz (later Rudi Leavor) was born in Berlin in 1926 but moved to Bradford on 10 November 1937.
131.111.184.102 ( talk) 13:46, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
References
The article was one of the worst attack WP:BLPs I have seen on Wikipedia: absolutely shameful. I have removed some cruft..it could still be trimmed more. What need to be expanded is the "Parliamentary and political record" part. Presently we have a lot about what other people says about her....little about what she says herself! This obviously should be changed.... Huldra ( talk) 23:49, 20 July 2018 (UTC)
Nobody has demanded that the socalled antisemitism affair (when did retweeting something from Norman Finkelstein homepage become a "scandal"? Seriously???) isn't covered...it is, in great detail. What the discussion is about is whether a couple of soon deleted tweets should be covered. I think not. This is a storm in a tea cup, and you all know it. Huldra ( talk) 21:23, 23 July 2018 (UTC)
References
The language I used was anti-Semitic, it was offensive," she said. "What I did was I hurt people and the language that was the clear anti-Semitic language
Okay let's split this up. Should her resignation be covered in the lede? Absolutelypuremilk ( talk) 07:29, 24 July 2018 (UTC)
References
Huldra would like to remove the Twitter controversies section. I disagree with removing the content, but am happy for the content to be worked into the rest of the text and the section header removed. Thoughts? Absolutelypuremilk ( talk) 06:37, 26 July 2018 (UTC)
As an uninvolved administrator I am applying the following discretionary sanction to this article under WP:NEWBLPBAN: Naz Shah is placed under 1RR indefinitely and content challenged on BLP grounds can only be restored by explicit talk page consensus. This has been logged at WP:AELOG/2018 and added the neccesary edit notice to this page [4]. TonyBallioni ( talk) 19:44, 26 July 2018 (UTC)
From what I gather looking at old revisions, this page used to have multiple subsections under "Political career" that included numerous controversies. I see why this was removed however at the moment the "Parliamentary career" section feels bloated and disorganised, refactoring to include a single "Controversies" subsection would likely improve readability.
Forgive me for any mistakes since I'm new to this, but i'm also happy to do the edit myself if people approve. EvanM2015 ( talk) 16:13, 11 July 2021 (UTC) " "