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Nathu La article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
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Nathu La is a former featured article. Please see the links under Article milestones below for its original nomination page (for older articles, check the nomination archive) and why it was removed. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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This article is written in British English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, travelled, centre, defence, artefact, analyse) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
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What is the altitude of the pass? This article says (without source) 4310 meters, while de:Nathu La and zh:乃堆拉山口 both say 4545 meters. Is there really >100 meters uncertainty about the altitude? -- Jmk ( talk) 09:42, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
This is a 2007 Featured article whose main author has been inactive for over a decade; the article has not been maintained to FA standards.
Unless someone can correct these issues, and bring the article back to FA standards, the article should be submitted to Featured article review. SandyGeorgia ( Talk) 15:47, 16 December 2020 (UTC)
@ DiplomatTesterMan and Kautilya3: is anyone still working, or should this article proceed to FAR? SandyGeorgia ( Talk) 04:17, 22 February 2022 (UTC)
When the Nathu La pass was reopned in 2006, Chinese and Indian media tom-tommed it as reopening the "ancient silk road". The term caught on and now it is a tourist industry slogan, also embraced by the Government of Sikkim. But it is all fake. There is no evidence of any "ancient" Indo-Tibetan trade through the Sikkim passes. The age-old trade route was through Kathmandu in Nepal. (Even for it, the term "silk road" would have been quite inappropriate.) It was only after the British acquired Darjeeling and Kalimpong districts (from Sikkim and Bhutan respectively) that they tried to promote trade through the Sikkim passes, dispite enormous resistance from Sikkim and Tibet. Tina Harris has a good coverage of the "silk road" cliche.
-- Kautilya3 ( talk) 09:55, 4 October 2021 (UTC)
Charles Bell writes:
The Chinese civil official, known to the Tibetans as Popon ('The Paymaster’), had very little to do and took no great interest in his surroundings. During a conversation at his official residence in Pipitang, a village three miles down the valley from Shasima, he admitted complete ignorance of the whereabouts of the Bhutan frontier, though this was but five or six miles away.( Bell, Tibet Past and Present 1992, p. 75)
This paper, on the other hand, cites a contemporary Chinese source to claim a "Himalayocentric" view of the region, where apparently India and China were "twins emerging out of a Himalayan cradle"! There is a big group of western scholars who make a living out of recycling Chinese propaganda materials. -- Kautilya3 ( talk) 11:33, 3 November 2021 (UTC)
She writes:
Since linking northern India to southern China became crucial to supply Allied efforts in China, the Tea Horse Road became once again a vital link across the Himalayas (Goullart 1955).
If you look up Goullart, there is no mention of either "Tea Horse Road" or "Nathu La" in it. On the other hand, the famous Cognoscenti book does state these things, and cite Goullart for it. [1]. This is apparenty her real source! -- Kautilya3 ( talk) 13:58, 3 November 2021 (UTC)
They really should have named it after wool (Harris 2013, page 92). Or something else. Since the old silk route... so many new types of material are used for clothes, I don't think youngsters today would even know what silk is, let alone value it. With the kind of publicity the opening of the pass got in 2006, it was the perfect time to introduce something new. Then again, cliches work. When I first heard Nathu La was connected to the silk route, I was like oh, I know this (ever so wrong, I new the term as a cliche, as a slogan, but not what is actually was). There is hardly any (no) indication of silk on this route. Wool has come up in Chapman (1940), Shakya (2012) in which it is written how wool was bought up by the Chinese at really good rates from the Tibetans around 1950 and then shipped to China via Calcutta..... Just think about, Nathu La connected Tibet, Lhasa, Sikkim, Kalimpong, Darjeeling, Calcutta to China via sea! Ask a newbie to explain this and it will be a puzzle. DTM ( talk) 14:15, 28 October 2021 (UTC)
The bracketed content in the intro is too large.
( Tibetan: རྣ་ཐོས་ལ་, Wylie: Rna thos la, THL: Na tö la; Hindi: नाथू ला, IAST: Nāthū Lā; Chinese: 乃 堆 拉 山 口; pinyin: Nǎi duī lā shānkǒu)
DTM ( talk) 03:19, 25 October 2021 (UTC)
Copyvios/ close paraphrasing in the article taken from this reference:
Example 1:
Example 2:
DTM ( talk) 12:59, 25 October 2021 (UTC)
At certain locations, this article describes locations in Sherathang. While Sherathang and Nathu La are close, about 3km by road (Google Earth approx) and 1km as the eagle flies, Wikipedia has separate articles for them. DTM ( talk) 07:39, 26 October 2021 (UTC)
This content was not referenced or inadequately referenced, shifting some here which sounds important:
The potential of Nathu La was realised in 1873, after the Darjeeling Deputy Commissioner published a report on the strategic importance of mountain passes between Sikkim and Tibet. In December 1893, the Sikkimese monarchy and Tibetan rulers signed an agreement to increase trade between the two nations. The agreement culminated in 1894 when the trade pass was opened.
After India's independence from Britain in 1947, bilateral trade between India and Tibet rose. More than 1,000 mules and 700 people were involved in cross-border trade through Nathu La.
DTM ( talk) 10:43, 27 October 2021 (UTC)
I want to introduce content from this reference. But first, apart from being a 'historian' and this a 'travelouge' who is John Easton? In 1928, John Easton crossed the Nathu La on his way to Chomolhari, writing—
"The approach to the Nathu La and the Pass itself are not formidable: the last stages of road are veritable road and not an iniquity, as is the approach to the Dzalep. The approach has been so gradual that there is no need for a formidable climb, and save for the actual cramble over the snow-covered pass, the way is easy enough. The Pass, when compared withthe Dzalep La, is rarely used and is not open all the year. The road itself is a natural path made by countless feet of mules; when we crossed, it had been opened only a week. The snow was from there three to four feet deep, and frozen." (page 39)
In this book he refers to Dr Bishop. He never tells us the full name as far as I can make out.
DTM ( talk) 10:23, 28 October 2021 (UTC)
charming English men. Easton had reviewed a few works on Tibet. 1 Anyways, he was a travelogue. TrangaBellam ( talk) 14:40, 28 October 2021 (UTC)
The answer to the question "Who is John Easton?" is that he is the one that told me that there was another Yatung before the present one. Even famous scholars didn't know the difference and even if they did, they ended up confusing one for the other. -- Kautilya3 ( talk) 17:05, 28 October 2021 (UTC)
In 1929, John Easton's travelogue describes the pass as rather simple to cross other than the "actual scramble over the snow-covered pass". However when compared with Jelep La, it is used less and is not open year round.[STOP HERE] [OR ADD]
Easton describes the crossing, "The road itself is a natural path made by countless feet of mules; when we crossed, it had been opened only a week. The snow was from three to four feet deep, and frozen. Over this... the fall of the previous night. [...] there was much stumbling and holding up and whistling and hallooing by all concerned."
Finally, after decade of talks,- So, talks were ongoing since '96? Some details are necessary. removed
Tsering Shakya has noted that by the 1950s, 70 percent of trade between Tibet and India was effectively bought out by the Chinese State Trading Company, cutting off the businesses of long-established Newar and Marwari traders (business families originally from Rajasthan) in Lhasa (Shakya 1999: 115). ( Harris, Geographical Diversions 2013, p. 12)
As the United States cut off economic ties with China, the big traders who held monopolies on wool quickly lost most of their profits, and four million pounds of wool lay rotting in Kalimpong warehouses. At the same time, however, smaller-scale traders suddenly experienced a boom in business. ( Harris, Geographical Diversions 2013, p. 39)
After 1962, then, trade along the Lhasa–Kalimpong routes was almost completely cut off, significantly transforming the economic geography of the region. Many traders, some of whom were given only twenty-four hours’ notice to vacate their shops in the border marts, shifted their businesses by settling in Kathmandu and rerouting their trading links with Tibet through Nepal.
This might lead to potential areas of improvement. TrangaBellam ( talk) 22:53, 5 November 2021 (UTC)
Nathu la Trade was closed in July 1961" without any citation. The 1954 trade agreement expired only on 6 June 1962. -- Kautilya3 ( talk) 19:40, 6 November 2021 (UTC)
So, reading through Vibha Arora, I find that there was already decent trade between Tibet and Bhutan + Darjeeling, in the 1873 report by Edgar. (No mention of Gangtok or any other Sikkimese place.) But the trade was asymmetric. Tibetans were coming to "our bazaars", but "our subjects" weren't allowed into Tibet. Edgar considered both Nathu La and Jelep La for trade routes, but "recommended" Jelep La. She doesn't explain why. By 1879 a cart road was constructed to Jelep La.
The 1880-81 report describes far less trade than the 1873 report. I can't tell if there was a real decrease (and why) or if it was just a difference of perception. But this report had quite adverse comments on trade being at a "standstill" etc.
The 1886-87 report notes that the trade was still low compared to Nepal, and also that it had gotten diverted from Kalimpong to Gangtok, because the Tibetans blockaded the new road to Jelep La. This might mean that Nathu La was being used, but Arora doesn't mention it. Then we have the Convention of Calcutta and the 1893 Trade Regulations, with the effect that Indians were allowed to go up to Old Yatung (via Jelep La only).
In the 1987 report, the exports via Sikkim were Rs. 730,000, whereas in 1881, they were only Rs. 80,000. So it was a success. But it was still miniscule compared to Nepal. -- Kautilya3 ( talk) 18:21, 28 October 2021 (UTC)
Looking at the big picture, one should ask why did Edgar favour Jelep La over Nathu La? And why did the Tibetans allow only Jelep La?
My guess is that Edgar favoured Jelep La to keep the British trade route as separate from Sikkim as possible. That is a theory, but there is a well-known precedent for such a preference in Ladakh. The British tried to promote the "Chang Chenmo Route", i.e., Aksai Chin, in preference to the Karakoram Pass, so as to avoid Leh. They wanted to avoid the Maharaja's taxes. Similar considerations might have applied here. If not taxes, some interference from the Sikkimese side might become possible if the route went through Gangtok.
The Tibetans similarly didn't want the British going through the heartland of Sikkim. Best to keep them as far as away from the main Sikkim areas as possible. -- Kautilya3 ( talk) 18:32, 31 October 2021 (UTC)
Have any Chinese authors written on Nathu La? Any books which contain even a worthy mention of the pass?
TrangaBellam, you had written above "Contemporary Qing chronicles provide interesting commentary on Nathu La". Are these by Chinese authors?
DTM (
talk)
14:58, 29 October 2021 (UTC)
This is an amazing, unique and creative paper (relevant to Nathu La). They even made their wedding rings in the shape and profile of the India-China border!! [1] DTM ( talk) 02:48, 3 November 2021 (UTC)
References
{{
cite web}}
: CS1 maint: date format (
link)
The article isn't complete and this is reflecting on the intro. However, the intro helps with the overall organisation. Here is a first attempt—
Nathu La is a mountain pass in the Dongkya Range of the Himalayas between China's Yadong County in Tibet, and the Indian state of Sikkim. The pass, at 4,310 m (14,140 ft), connects the towns of Kalimpong and Gangtok to the villages and towns of the lower Chumbi Valley. The pass was surveyed by J. W. Edgar in 1873, who described the pass as being used for trade by Tibetans. Francis Younghusband used the pass in 1903-1904, a diplomatic British delegation to Lhasa in 1936-37, and Ernst Schäfer in 1938–1939. Diplomatically sealed by China and India after the 1962 Sino-Indian War, the pass saw skirmishes between the two countries in coming years, including the clashes in 1967 which resulted in fatalities on both sides. Nathu La has often been compared to Jelep La, a mountain pass situated at a distance of 3 miles (4.8 km).
The next few decades saw an improvement in ties leading to the re-opening of Nathu La in 2006. The opening of the pass provides an alternative route to the pilgrimage of Mount Kailash and Lake Manasarovar, and was expected to bolster the economy of the region by playing a key role in the growing Sino-Indian trade. However, while trade has had a net positive impact, it under-performed, and is limited to specific types of goods and to specific days of the week. Weather conditions including heavy snowfall restricts border trade to around 7 to 8 months.
Roads to the pass have been improved on both sides. Rail routes have been brought closer. It is part of the domestic tourist circuit in south-east Sikkim. Soldiers from both sides posted at Nathu La are among the closest along the entire Sino-India border. It is also one of the five Border Personnel Meeting points between the two armies of both countries. 2020 border tensions and the coronavirus pandemic has affected tourism and movement across the pass.
DTM ( talk) 12:08, 5 November 2021 (UTC)
A socio-historical analysis of international treaties and internal and external trade for the period 1817-1906, and the administration of trade routes, reveals the imperial concern for circulating the commodities of the Empire through the Jelep and the Nathu passes.In the article, the first line of #History is reference to this.
DiplomatTesterMan, I have trouble with your write-up on the Edgar's report as well. You state that he was sent to find "new routes". I don't see where the source is saying anything of this kind. Again, a couple of sentences down, you state "with this objective", i.e., of promoting the "reverse trade". I don't find any mention of this in the source either. -- Kautilya3 ( talk) 02:21, 7 November 2021 (UTC)
I have the honor to submit an account of my recent tour in Sikhim, together with such information as I have been able to collect on the state of affairs there ; the condition, extent, and prospects of the trade with Thibet ; the desirability of making a road or roads through Sikhim ; the best route or routes to be taken...DTM ( talk) 10:21, 7 November 2021 (UTC)
While a number of Tibetans were entering into British India, the reverse trade was not flourishing as well.Is this misleading? No. Could the paraphrasing accuracy and grammar be increased. Yes. DTM ( talk) 10:46, 7 November 2021 (UTC)
Any good sources that talk about this, at least a starting point? Everyone seems even hazy when taking about the past of Sikkim. DTM ( talk) 10:46, 7 November 2021 (UTC)
Nathu La and Jelep La were the hubs of yak herders from Tibet and used to access pastures on the Sikkim side. Since there was some traffic on these passes, they were also used for small scale trading by the yak herders and graziers, but the real trade between Sikkim and Tibet was carried out over the passes in the North Sikkim – mostly through Kongra La and also from Chorten Nyima La and some other passes. [1]
References
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Nathu La article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1, 2 |
Nathu La is a former featured article. Please see the links under Article milestones below for its original nomination page (for older articles, check the nomination archive) and why it was removed. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on March 26, 2009. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article is written in British English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, travelled, centre, defence, artefact, analyse) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Other talk page banners | |||
|
What is the altitude of the pass? This article says (without source) 4310 meters, while de:Nathu La and zh:乃堆拉山口 both say 4545 meters. Is there really >100 meters uncertainty about the altitude? -- Jmk ( talk) 09:42, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
This is a 2007 Featured article whose main author has been inactive for over a decade; the article has not been maintained to FA standards.
Unless someone can correct these issues, and bring the article back to FA standards, the article should be submitted to Featured article review. SandyGeorgia ( Talk) 15:47, 16 December 2020 (UTC)
@ DiplomatTesterMan and Kautilya3: is anyone still working, or should this article proceed to FAR? SandyGeorgia ( Talk) 04:17, 22 February 2022 (UTC)
When the Nathu La pass was reopned in 2006, Chinese and Indian media tom-tommed it as reopening the "ancient silk road". The term caught on and now it is a tourist industry slogan, also embraced by the Government of Sikkim. But it is all fake. There is no evidence of any "ancient" Indo-Tibetan trade through the Sikkim passes. The age-old trade route was through Kathmandu in Nepal. (Even for it, the term "silk road" would have been quite inappropriate.) It was only after the British acquired Darjeeling and Kalimpong districts (from Sikkim and Bhutan respectively) that they tried to promote trade through the Sikkim passes, dispite enormous resistance from Sikkim and Tibet. Tina Harris has a good coverage of the "silk road" cliche.
-- Kautilya3 ( talk) 09:55, 4 October 2021 (UTC)
Charles Bell writes:
The Chinese civil official, known to the Tibetans as Popon ('The Paymaster’), had very little to do and took no great interest in his surroundings. During a conversation at his official residence in Pipitang, a village three miles down the valley from Shasima, he admitted complete ignorance of the whereabouts of the Bhutan frontier, though this was but five or six miles away.( Bell, Tibet Past and Present 1992, p. 75)
This paper, on the other hand, cites a contemporary Chinese source to claim a "Himalayocentric" view of the region, where apparently India and China were "twins emerging out of a Himalayan cradle"! There is a big group of western scholars who make a living out of recycling Chinese propaganda materials. -- Kautilya3 ( talk) 11:33, 3 November 2021 (UTC)
She writes:
Since linking northern India to southern China became crucial to supply Allied efforts in China, the Tea Horse Road became once again a vital link across the Himalayas (Goullart 1955).
If you look up Goullart, there is no mention of either "Tea Horse Road" or "Nathu La" in it. On the other hand, the famous Cognoscenti book does state these things, and cite Goullart for it. [1]. This is apparenty her real source! -- Kautilya3 ( talk) 13:58, 3 November 2021 (UTC)
They really should have named it after wool (Harris 2013, page 92). Or something else. Since the old silk route... so many new types of material are used for clothes, I don't think youngsters today would even know what silk is, let alone value it. With the kind of publicity the opening of the pass got in 2006, it was the perfect time to introduce something new. Then again, cliches work. When I first heard Nathu La was connected to the silk route, I was like oh, I know this (ever so wrong, I new the term as a cliche, as a slogan, but not what is actually was). There is hardly any (no) indication of silk on this route. Wool has come up in Chapman (1940), Shakya (2012) in which it is written how wool was bought up by the Chinese at really good rates from the Tibetans around 1950 and then shipped to China via Calcutta..... Just think about, Nathu La connected Tibet, Lhasa, Sikkim, Kalimpong, Darjeeling, Calcutta to China via sea! Ask a newbie to explain this and it will be a puzzle. DTM ( talk) 14:15, 28 October 2021 (UTC)
The bracketed content in the intro is too large.
( Tibetan: རྣ་ཐོས་ལ་, Wylie: Rna thos la, THL: Na tö la; Hindi: नाथू ला, IAST: Nāthū Lā; Chinese: 乃 堆 拉 山 口; pinyin: Nǎi duī lā shānkǒu)
DTM ( talk) 03:19, 25 October 2021 (UTC)
Copyvios/ close paraphrasing in the article taken from this reference:
Example 1:
Example 2:
DTM ( talk) 12:59, 25 October 2021 (UTC)
At certain locations, this article describes locations in Sherathang. While Sherathang and Nathu La are close, about 3km by road (Google Earth approx) and 1km as the eagle flies, Wikipedia has separate articles for them. DTM ( talk) 07:39, 26 October 2021 (UTC)
This content was not referenced or inadequately referenced, shifting some here which sounds important:
The potential of Nathu La was realised in 1873, after the Darjeeling Deputy Commissioner published a report on the strategic importance of mountain passes between Sikkim and Tibet. In December 1893, the Sikkimese monarchy and Tibetan rulers signed an agreement to increase trade between the two nations. The agreement culminated in 1894 when the trade pass was opened.
After India's independence from Britain in 1947, bilateral trade between India and Tibet rose. More than 1,000 mules and 700 people were involved in cross-border trade through Nathu La.
DTM ( talk) 10:43, 27 October 2021 (UTC)
I want to introduce content from this reference. But first, apart from being a 'historian' and this a 'travelouge' who is John Easton? In 1928, John Easton crossed the Nathu La on his way to Chomolhari, writing—
"The approach to the Nathu La and the Pass itself are not formidable: the last stages of road are veritable road and not an iniquity, as is the approach to the Dzalep. The approach has been so gradual that there is no need for a formidable climb, and save for the actual cramble over the snow-covered pass, the way is easy enough. The Pass, when compared withthe Dzalep La, is rarely used and is not open all the year. The road itself is a natural path made by countless feet of mules; when we crossed, it had been opened only a week. The snow was from there three to four feet deep, and frozen." (page 39)
In this book he refers to Dr Bishop. He never tells us the full name as far as I can make out.
DTM ( talk) 10:23, 28 October 2021 (UTC)
charming English men. Easton had reviewed a few works on Tibet. 1 Anyways, he was a travelogue. TrangaBellam ( talk) 14:40, 28 October 2021 (UTC)
The answer to the question "Who is John Easton?" is that he is the one that told me that there was another Yatung before the present one. Even famous scholars didn't know the difference and even if they did, they ended up confusing one for the other. -- Kautilya3 ( talk) 17:05, 28 October 2021 (UTC)
In 1929, John Easton's travelogue describes the pass as rather simple to cross other than the "actual scramble over the snow-covered pass". However when compared with Jelep La, it is used less and is not open year round.[STOP HERE] [OR ADD]
Easton describes the crossing, "The road itself is a natural path made by countless feet of mules; when we crossed, it had been opened only a week. The snow was from three to four feet deep, and frozen. Over this... the fall of the previous night. [...] there was much stumbling and holding up and whistling and hallooing by all concerned."
Finally, after decade of talks,- So, talks were ongoing since '96? Some details are necessary. removed
Tsering Shakya has noted that by the 1950s, 70 percent of trade between Tibet and India was effectively bought out by the Chinese State Trading Company, cutting off the businesses of long-established Newar and Marwari traders (business families originally from Rajasthan) in Lhasa (Shakya 1999: 115). ( Harris, Geographical Diversions 2013, p. 12)
As the United States cut off economic ties with China, the big traders who held monopolies on wool quickly lost most of their profits, and four million pounds of wool lay rotting in Kalimpong warehouses. At the same time, however, smaller-scale traders suddenly experienced a boom in business. ( Harris, Geographical Diversions 2013, p. 39)
After 1962, then, trade along the Lhasa–Kalimpong routes was almost completely cut off, significantly transforming the economic geography of the region. Many traders, some of whom were given only twenty-four hours’ notice to vacate their shops in the border marts, shifted their businesses by settling in Kathmandu and rerouting their trading links with Tibet through Nepal.
This might lead to potential areas of improvement. TrangaBellam ( talk) 22:53, 5 November 2021 (UTC)
Nathu la Trade was closed in July 1961" without any citation. The 1954 trade agreement expired only on 6 June 1962. -- Kautilya3 ( talk) 19:40, 6 November 2021 (UTC)
So, reading through Vibha Arora, I find that there was already decent trade between Tibet and Bhutan + Darjeeling, in the 1873 report by Edgar. (No mention of Gangtok or any other Sikkimese place.) But the trade was asymmetric. Tibetans were coming to "our bazaars", but "our subjects" weren't allowed into Tibet. Edgar considered both Nathu La and Jelep La for trade routes, but "recommended" Jelep La. She doesn't explain why. By 1879 a cart road was constructed to Jelep La.
The 1880-81 report describes far less trade than the 1873 report. I can't tell if there was a real decrease (and why) or if it was just a difference of perception. But this report had quite adverse comments on trade being at a "standstill" etc.
The 1886-87 report notes that the trade was still low compared to Nepal, and also that it had gotten diverted from Kalimpong to Gangtok, because the Tibetans blockaded the new road to Jelep La. This might mean that Nathu La was being used, but Arora doesn't mention it. Then we have the Convention of Calcutta and the 1893 Trade Regulations, with the effect that Indians were allowed to go up to Old Yatung (via Jelep La only).
In the 1987 report, the exports via Sikkim were Rs. 730,000, whereas in 1881, they were only Rs. 80,000. So it was a success. But it was still miniscule compared to Nepal. -- Kautilya3 ( talk) 18:21, 28 October 2021 (UTC)
Looking at the big picture, one should ask why did Edgar favour Jelep La over Nathu La? And why did the Tibetans allow only Jelep La?
My guess is that Edgar favoured Jelep La to keep the British trade route as separate from Sikkim as possible. That is a theory, but there is a well-known precedent for such a preference in Ladakh. The British tried to promote the "Chang Chenmo Route", i.e., Aksai Chin, in preference to the Karakoram Pass, so as to avoid Leh. They wanted to avoid the Maharaja's taxes. Similar considerations might have applied here. If not taxes, some interference from the Sikkimese side might become possible if the route went through Gangtok.
The Tibetans similarly didn't want the British going through the heartland of Sikkim. Best to keep them as far as away from the main Sikkim areas as possible. -- Kautilya3 ( talk) 18:32, 31 October 2021 (UTC)
Have any Chinese authors written on Nathu La? Any books which contain even a worthy mention of the pass?
TrangaBellam, you had written above "Contemporary Qing chronicles provide interesting commentary on Nathu La". Are these by Chinese authors?
DTM (
talk)
14:58, 29 October 2021 (UTC)
This is an amazing, unique and creative paper (relevant to Nathu La). They even made their wedding rings in the shape and profile of the India-China border!! [1] DTM ( talk) 02:48, 3 November 2021 (UTC)
References
{{
cite web}}
: CS1 maint: date format (
link)
The article isn't complete and this is reflecting on the intro. However, the intro helps with the overall organisation. Here is a first attempt—
Nathu La is a mountain pass in the Dongkya Range of the Himalayas between China's Yadong County in Tibet, and the Indian state of Sikkim. The pass, at 4,310 m (14,140 ft), connects the towns of Kalimpong and Gangtok to the villages and towns of the lower Chumbi Valley. The pass was surveyed by J. W. Edgar in 1873, who described the pass as being used for trade by Tibetans. Francis Younghusband used the pass in 1903-1904, a diplomatic British delegation to Lhasa in 1936-37, and Ernst Schäfer in 1938–1939. Diplomatically sealed by China and India after the 1962 Sino-Indian War, the pass saw skirmishes between the two countries in coming years, including the clashes in 1967 which resulted in fatalities on both sides. Nathu La has often been compared to Jelep La, a mountain pass situated at a distance of 3 miles (4.8 km).
The next few decades saw an improvement in ties leading to the re-opening of Nathu La in 2006. The opening of the pass provides an alternative route to the pilgrimage of Mount Kailash and Lake Manasarovar, and was expected to bolster the economy of the region by playing a key role in the growing Sino-Indian trade. However, while trade has had a net positive impact, it under-performed, and is limited to specific types of goods and to specific days of the week. Weather conditions including heavy snowfall restricts border trade to around 7 to 8 months.
Roads to the pass have been improved on both sides. Rail routes have been brought closer. It is part of the domestic tourist circuit in south-east Sikkim. Soldiers from both sides posted at Nathu La are among the closest along the entire Sino-India border. It is also one of the five Border Personnel Meeting points between the two armies of both countries. 2020 border tensions and the coronavirus pandemic has affected tourism and movement across the pass.
DTM ( talk) 12:08, 5 November 2021 (UTC)
A socio-historical analysis of international treaties and internal and external trade for the period 1817-1906, and the administration of trade routes, reveals the imperial concern for circulating the commodities of the Empire through the Jelep and the Nathu passes.In the article, the first line of #History is reference to this.
DiplomatTesterMan, I have trouble with your write-up on the Edgar's report as well. You state that he was sent to find "new routes". I don't see where the source is saying anything of this kind. Again, a couple of sentences down, you state "with this objective", i.e., of promoting the "reverse trade". I don't find any mention of this in the source either. -- Kautilya3 ( talk) 02:21, 7 November 2021 (UTC)
I have the honor to submit an account of my recent tour in Sikhim, together with such information as I have been able to collect on the state of affairs there ; the condition, extent, and prospects of the trade with Thibet ; the desirability of making a road or roads through Sikhim ; the best route or routes to be taken...DTM ( talk) 10:21, 7 November 2021 (UTC)
While a number of Tibetans were entering into British India, the reverse trade was not flourishing as well.Is this misleading? No. Could the paraphrasing accuracy and grammar be increased. Yes. DTM ( talk) 10:46, 7 November 2021 (UTC)
Any good sources that talk about this, at least a starting point? Everyone seems even hazy when taking about the past of Sikkim. DTM ( talk) 10:46, 7 November 2021 (UTC)
Nathu La and Jelep La were the hubs of yak herders from Tibet and used to access pastures on the Sikkim side. Since there was some traffic on these passes, they were also used for small scale trading by the yak herders and graziers, but the real trade between Sikkim and Tibet was carried out over the passes in the North Sikkim – mostly through Kongra La and also from Chorten Nyima La and some other passes. [1]
References