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Namdev said in his writing that he is not Hindu, The tag of Hindu philosophy should not be put under his article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 153.110.241.228 ( talk) 08:12, 1 April 2013 (UTC)
I removed some content here because it looked like a copyright violation. I've now got the article that was referred to and it is clear that there was no violation. However, the contributor has significantly misrepresented the source, eg: saying that Namdev spent three days in Bassi Pathander when the source says "According to many Punjabis, Namdev spent three days in Bassi Pathana" - the "according to" is very significant when dealing with controversial topics and, indeed, the entire premise of the source is that this topic is controversial. I'll put the source away for a bit, then re-read it and try to incorporate the information in a more neutral manner. - Sitush ( talk) 16:04, 13 February 2014 (UTC)
![]() | This article was the subject of an educational assignment in 2014 Q1. Further details were available on the "Education Program:Duquesne University/UCOR 143 (Spring 2014)" page, which is now unavailable on the wiki. |
As Sant Namdev contributed to the Bhakti Movement and most of his ABHANGA's or petry anded to the holy GURUGRANTHSAHIB , he is the only person who has written down the autobiography of Sant Dnyaneshwar and his sibblings and because of this contribution we get to know the life of these Saints....
This litrature contains in NAMDEV GATHA.. where there are chapters like SAMADHI PRAKARAN, TIRTHAWALI... — Preceding unsigned comment added by Swapniladitya ( talk • contribs) 13:00, 28 March 2015 (UTC)
@ Sitush:: Thanks for challenging my edits to the lead, and concurring with my tag to one of the claims in the lead. The lead should indeed be supported by the content in the main article.
This wiki article is, unlike several Bhakti sant-poet articles, in a better shape. I have diligently read the sources mentioned, over the last week, and unusually, most of the text is supported and not a copyvio. Someone or some past editors put some effort into it, and whoever you are: well done!
There are a number of ways in which this article can be further improved: [1] It heavily uses Novetzke. It is a reliable, good source. But adding summary from other recent scholarly publications with other perspectives will make the article more balanced and a better information resource. In the case of Novetzke, the article summarizes select parts of it. We should add a summary from other chapters such as chapter 4, on authenticity and anamnetic authorship with respect to Namdev (expanding the authenticity note from McGregor already in the article). [2] We should add a summary from Callewaert's scholarly publications on Namdev's bhajan/music and why the genre of Namdev's literary work is more than poetry. [3] We should add a note, for NPOV, with reliable sources, that there is uncertainty and scholarly disagreement on whether Namdev in Sikh literature was the Namdev from Maharashtra. [4] Some summary sentences present one of the several theories Novetzke discusses, for NPOV we shouldn't pick one because Novetzke doesn't pick or conclude one as final. [5] Add a section summarizing Namdev's philosophy, and the scholarly discussion on whether Namdev was monotheistic or pantheistic, Nirguna or Saguna thinker, etc, from sources such as McGregor, Novetzke, and others. [6] A legacy section describing his impact. @Sitush/others: do you want to do this, or too busy with other matters? I can help while my memory is fresh and I have the sources handy. Ms Sarah Welch ( talk) 15:42, 8 August 2015 (UTC)
@ Redtigerxyz:, @ Joshua Jonathan: I see you two have edited this article within the last 12 months. Any suggestions, comments? Do you have time to work on this? Ms Sarah Welch ( talk) 16:44, 8 August 2015 (UTC)
S. B. Kulkarni, noting that Jnandev is not mentioned in the bakhar and finding it improbable that someone could have accomplished two such extensive journeys before the age of seventeen, concludes that Namdev's dates must be much earlier than those usually given. He suggests the dates 1207 - 1287 CE, thus allowing for the scenario portrayed in the bakhar
I too am no expert in Hinduism; i'm one of those śrāmaṇa-focused folks. I mostly clean Hinduism articles as much as I can bear before I turn from perfect cinnamon bun into trash can. I just recently cleaned the page because it wasn't visibly in too-bad shape on the surface once I scrubbed it of ad-hoc broken English and hagiographical details. I would flag WP:Hinduism for certain. I think the proposals seem reasonable, but I really don't know that I know enough to comment. I've read zero (0) on Namdev and very little on modern Hinduism. Ogress smash! 00:11, 10 August 2015 (UTC)
Trash-can.... yes. Depressing: yes. Some folks believe that India is some sort of spiritual paradise; wonder why? Anyway, I'm off to my next week of holiday today, so I also don't have the time to go into this topic. Sorry. Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk! 04:06, 10 August 2015 (UTC)
To Namdev, mechanical rituals are futile, pilgrimage to holy places is pointless, deep meditation and loving mutual devotion is what matters
looks like it might be a close paraphrase, if not an outright copyright violation, of the cited source. Please can someone check. -
Sitush (
talk) 04:56, 11 August 2015 (UTC)
We also seem to be gaining an awful lot of short quotations. WP:QUOTEFARM applies here, as elsewhere. - Sitush ( talk) 05:05, 11 August 2015 (UTC)
For a focussed discussion to help improve this article, I am breaking the three concerns/suggestions so far mentioned. I welcome specifics. Ms Sarah Welch ( talk) 16:17, 11 August 2015 (UTC)
@Sitush wrote:
Can @Sitush or someone identify the page number and source where the alleged copyvio or 'close paraphrase' is allegedly from? Ms Sarah Welch ( talk) 16:17, 11 August 2015 (UTC)
@Sitush mentions the essay on WP:QUOTEFARM, and its applicability to this article. Extracting...
I believe "attributing with reliable source, explaining relevance, and paraphrase" is what I have done in this article, to the best of my ability. I am trying my best to satisfy WP:Copyvio, WP:Plag and WP:Quotefarm, as well as not change the meaning or do WP:OR while re-summarizing in one's own words. If a specific paragraph can be improved to better meet WP:Quotefarm concerns, please identify which, and suggest ways to improve it. Your help is most welcome. Ms Sarah Welch ( talk) 16:17, 11 August 2015 (UTC)
Sarah, no one is ignoring your contribution, at least you are looking for these articles, otherwise these articles were in bad shape since ages. I just have concern that you should not ignore some text in source. It is obvious that everyone do have his/her POV, I can't claim that I'm very neutral editor neither you. We just have to improve ourself as Wikipedia editor and try to be "more neutral" if not "complete neutral". I'm not discouraging you. I want you to improve Varakari related articles because you have special interest in it. Me too have interest in it, but currently I'm working on Tourism related Projects. I'm also planning to make template on Varkari topics because as per my knowledge there is no such template, we can include all Varkari related articles in one template which will help us to improve those topics. Best regards. -- Human3015 Send WikiLove 15:05, 11 August 2015 (UTC)
@Sitush: I noticed your edit summaries referring to these. That makes sense. I just hope, in cases where you removed the cite because the same cite is at the end of the para, people don't tag sentences with 'cite needed' and delete the tagged sentence in future. Particularly, after someone inserts sentences inside that paragraph from a different reliable source. Ms Sarah Welch ( talk) 17:19, 11 August 2015 (UTC)
संत नामदेव ग्रंथ 2409:4042:D19:5FD0:A0B:3C9D:6683:EB5F ( talk) 07:04, 5 February 2022 (UTC)
Here is mentioned that Namdev(darji) are sudhra but I'm showing dissatisfaction because sudhra are those who are untouchable, namdev are not untouchable. This is my kindly request to you that remove the title of sudhra from the darji caste written in your page. 103.81.152.195 ( talk) 05:26, 1 July 2022 (UTC)
According to Mahipati, a hagiographer of the 18th century, Namdev's parents were Damashet and Gonai, a childless elderly couple whose prayers for parenthood were answered and involved him being found floating down a river. As with various other details of his life, elements such as this may have been invented to sidestep issues that might have caused controversy. In this instance, the potential controversy was that of caste or, more specifically, his position in the Hindu varna system of ritual ranking. He was born into what is generally recognised as a Vaishyacaste, variously recorded as shimpi in the Marathi language and as Chhipa, Chhimpa, Chhimba, chimpi (calico-printer) in northern India. His followers in Maharashtra and northern India who are from those communities prefer to consider their place, and thus his, as Kshatriya(Precisely as Rajputs and Marathas) Anmolrajput0 ( talk) 06:23, 23 February 2023 (UTC)
Qq 183.87.125.199 ( talk) 09:22, 28 July 2022 (UTC)
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Namdev said in his writing that he is not Hindu, The tag of Hindu philosophy should not be put under his article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 153.110.241.228 ( talk) 08:12, 1 April 2013 (UTC)
I removed some content here because it looked like a copyright violation. I've now got the article that was referred to and it is clear that there was no violation. However, the contributor has significantly misrepresented the source, eg: saying that Namdev spent three days in Bassi Pathander when the source says "According to many Punjabis, Namdev spent three days in Bassi Pathana" - the "according to" is very significant when dealing with controversial topics and, indeed, the entire premise of the source is that this topic is controversial. I'll put the source away for a bit, then re-read it and try to incorporate the information in a more neutral manner. - Sitush ( talk) 16:04, 13 February 2014 (UTC)
![]() | This article was the subject of an educational assignment in 2014 Q1. Further details were available on the "Education Program:Duquesne University/UCOR 143 (Spring 2014)" page, which is now unavailable on the wiki. |
As Sant Namdev contributed to the Bhakti Movement and most of his ABHANGA's or petry anded to the holy GURUGRANTHSAHIB , he is the only person who has written down the autobiography of Sant Dnyaneshwar and his sibblings and because of this contribution we get to know the life of these Saints....
This litrature contains in NAMDEV GATHA.. where there are chapters like SAMADHI PRAKARAN, TIRTHAWALI... — Preceding unsigned comment added by Swapniladitya ( talk • contribs) 13:00, 28 March 2015 (UTC)
@ Sitush:: Thanks for challenging my edits to the lead, and concurring with my tag to one of the claims in the lead. The lead should indeed be supported by the content in the main article.
This wiki article is, unlike several Bhakti sant-poet articles, in a better shape. I have diligently read the sources mentioned, over the last week, and unusually, most of the text is supported and not a copyvio. Someone or some past editors put some effort into it, and whoever you are: well done!
There are a number of ways in which this article can be further improved: [1] It heavily uses Novetzke. It is a reliable, good source. But adding summary from other recent scholarly publications with other perspectives will make the article more balanced and a better information resource. In the case of Novetzke, the article summarizes select parts of it. We should add a summary from other chapters such as chapter 4, on authenticity and anamnetic authorship with respect to Namdev (expanding the authenticity note from McGregor already in the article). [2] We should add a summary from Callewaert's scholarly publications on Namdev's bhajan/music and why the genre of Namdev's literary work is more than poetry. [3] We should add a note, for NPOV, with reliable sources, that there is uncertainty and scholarly disagreement on whether Namdev in Sikh literature was the Namdev from Maharashtra. [4] Some summary sentences present one of the several theories Novetzke discusses, for NPOV we shouldn't pick one because Novetzke doesn't pick or conclude one as final. [5] Add a section summarizing Namdev's philosophy, and the scholarly discussion on whether Namdev was monotheistic or pantheistic, Nirguna or Saguna thinker, etc, from sources such as McGregor, Novetzke, and others. [6] A legacy section describing his impact. @Sitush/others: do you want to do this, or too busy with other matters? I can help while my memory is fresh and I have the sources handy. Ms Sarah Welch ( talk) 15:42, 8 August 2015 (UTC)
@ Redtigerxyz:, @ Joshua Jonathan: I see you two have edited this article within the last 12 months. Any suggestions, comments? Do you have time to work on this? Ms Sarah Welch ( talk) 16:44, 8 August 2015 (UTC)
S. B. Kulkarni, noting that Jnandev is not mentioned in the bakhar and finding it improbable that someone could have accomplished two such extensive journeys before the age of seventeen, concludes that Namdev's dates must be much earlier than those usually given. He suggests the dates 1207 - 1287 CE, thus allowing for the scenario portrayed in the bakhar
I too am no expert in Hinduism; i'm one of those śrāmaṇa-focused folks. I mostly clean Hinduism articles as much as I can bear before I turn from perfect cinnamon bun into trash can. I just recently cleaned the page because it wasn't visibly in too-bad shape on the surface once I scrubbed it of ad-hoc broken English and hagiographical details. I would flag WP:Hinduism for certain. I think the proposals seem reasonable, but I really don't know that I know enough to comment. I've read zero (0) on Namdev and very little on modern Hinduism. Ogress smash! 00:11, 10 August 2015 (UTC)
Trash-can.... yes. Depressing: yes. Some folks believe that India is some sort of spiritual paradise; wonder why? Anyway, I'm off to my next week of holiday today, so I also don't have the time to go into this topic. Sorry. Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk! 04:06, 10 August 2015 (UTC)
To Namdev, mechanical rituals are futile, pilgrimage to holy places is pointless, deep meditation and loving mutual devotion is what matters
looks like it might be a close paraphrase, if not an outright copyright violation, of the cited source. Please can someone check. -
Sitush (
talk) 04:56, 11 August 2015 (UTC)
We also seem to be gaining an awful lot of short quotations. WP:QUOTEFARM applies here, as elsewhere. - Sitush ( talk) 05:05, 11 August 2015 (UTC)
For a focussed discussion to help improve this article, I am breaking the three concerns/suggestions so far mentioned. I welcome specifics. Ms Sarah Welch ( talk) 16:17, 11 August 2015 (UTC)
@Sitush wrote:
Can @Sitush or someone identify the page number and source where the alleged copyvio or 'close paraphrase' is allegedly from? Ms Sarah Welch ( talk) 16:17, 11 August 2015 (UTC)
@Sitush mentions the essay on WP:QUOTEFARM, and its applicability to this article. Extracting...
I believe "attributing with reliable source, explaining relevance, and paraphrase" is what I have done in this article, to the best of my ability. I am trying my best to satisfy WP:Copyvio, WP:Plag and WP:Quotefarm, as well as not change the meaning or do WP:OR while re-summarizing in one's own words. If a specific paragraph can be improved to better meet WP:Quotefarm concerns, please identify which, and suggest ways to improve it. Your help is most welcome. Ms Sarah Welch ( talk) 16:17, 11 August 2015 (UTC)
Sarah, no one is ignoring your contribution, at least you are looking for these articles, otherwise these articles were in bad shape since ages. I just have concern that you should not ignore some text in source. It is obvious that everyone do have his/her POV, I can't claim that I'm very neutral editor neither you. We just have to improve ourself as Wikipedia editor and try to be "more neutral" if not "complete neutral". I'm not discouraging you. I want you to improve Varakari related articles because you have special interest in it. Me too have interest in it, but currently I'm working on Tourism related Projects. I'm also planning to make template on Varkari topics because as per my knowledge there is no such template, we can include all Varkari related articles in one template which will help us to improve those topics. Best regards. -- Human3015 Send WikiLove 15:05, 11 August 2015 (UTC)
@Sitush: I noticed your edit summaries referring to these. That makes sense. I just hope, in cases where you removed the cite because the same cite is at the end of the para, people don't tag sentences with 'cite needed' and delete the tagged sentence in future. Particularly, after someone inserts sentences inside that paragraph from a different reliable source. Ms Sarah Welch ( talk) 17:19, 11 August 2015 (UTC)
संत नामदेव ग्रंथ 2409:4042:D19:5FD0:A0B:3C9D:6683:EB5F ( talk) 07:04, 5 February 2022 (UTC)
Here is mentioned that Namdev(darji) are sudhra but I'm showing dissatisfaction because sudhra are those who are untouchable, namdev are not untouchable. This is my kindly request to you that remove the title of sudhra from the darji caste written in your page. 103.81.152.195 ( talk) 05:26, 1 July 2022 (UTC)
According to Mahipati, a hagiographer of the 18th century, Namdev's parents were Damashet and Gonai, a childless elderly couple whose prayers for parenthood were answered and involved him being found floating down a river. As with various other details of his life, elements such as this may have been invented to sidestep issues that might have caused controversy. In this instance, the potential controversy was that of caste or, more specifically, his position in the Hindu varna system of ritual ranking. He was born into what is generally recognised as a Vaishyacaste, variously recorded as shimpi in the Marathi language and as Chhipa, Chhimpa, Chhimba, chimpi (calico-printer) in northern India. His followers in Maharashtra and northern India who are from those communities prefer to consider their place, and thus his, as Kshatriya(Precisely as Rajputs and Marathas) Anmolrajput0 ( talk) 06:23, 23 February 2023 (UTC)
Qq 183.87.125.199 ( talk) 09:22, 28 July 2022 (UTC)