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What is this all about? This is an Encyclopedia, people. It's about knowledge and not whether we're willing to share or not. Wikipedia is the collaborative work of thousands of people worldwide, and its aim is to collect as much encyclopedia-related information as possible. I consider a map, such as this a very important piece of information for an article about a place. I think that the map removal edit with the given reason "Some people just don't like to share" is not acceptable. I can see that you, User:Andruzzo have added and then removed the map without (reasonable) reasons for doing so. Please state your arguments. I have re-added the map for now; please do not remove it, and let's keep Wikipedia clear of edit wars by first discussing the topic here, before re-editing. Thanks. -- dionyziz 00:44, 14 August 2005 (UTC).
User:Adam_Bishop reverted the changes I had made to the Nightlife section. I reverted back and made some slight mods. I know it may sound 'touristy' to some but a section discussing nightlife will by nature sound like this. If we are to be accurate on the nature of this island (as it has been for over 30 years and continues) someone, like me, who has been there many times and can give an accurate description, should do so. Afterall, anyone who goes to this island goes there because of the nightlife and beaches. There is no other reason to go. If you all think that this should still not be there then remove the nightlife section altogether and just write a sentence in somewhere saying that "the island has great nightlife". I'm just trying to make this article great.
It appears that after a few repetitive reverts on the article by the Wikipedians Adam Bishop and Andruzzo, we have arrived at a disagreement on if we should include a wider section in the Nightlife part of the article. Please, let's discuss the issue here, instead of repeatedly reverting and let's not start a revert duel! I suggest that both of you read the Wikipedia:Resolving disputes article, if you haven't already done so, which contains information on resolving cases like this. Let us propose what exactly we want to appear in the certain section of the article in this talk page, and also exactly what we do not like to be there. It would be best to create a draft of the specific section of the article in this talk page; when we all agree about what should be put there, we can edit the article itself. Although you will still be able to do so, please do not revert or edit the certain section of the article page again, before we arrive at a common agreement.
The two different proposals for the "Nightlife" section were the following, as seen in the last two reverts of the page.
"Nightlife" section by
Adam Bishop (15:03, 1 September 2005, UTC):
"Nightlife" section by
Andruzzo (12:27, 1 September 2005, UTC):
It is clear that
Andruzzo's edit contains a lot more information regarding the island, but is not in an encyclopaedic style, as
Adam Bishop's. However,
Adam Bishop's version misses a lot of information a Wikipedia reader might want to be aware of. Considering both sides, I suggest that we modify
Andruzzo's version by changing its style to fit Wikipedia's as well as make sure it is written in a
Neutral point of view. Please state your opinion and your suggestions about the article here.
-- dionyziz 21:23, 1 September 2005 (UTC).
I think that of the two paragraphs I wrote that the first one should stay and I would agree that perhaps the 2nd is not encyclopedic enough to stay. I think this gives a short accurate account, including the refernece to palces like Ayia Napa:
But we have to keep in mind that when a section is named "Nightlife" the name in itself is 'timely' and that what is considered nightlife today may not be so 10 years down the line. Mykonos has been pretty much the same for the last 30 years which is why, perhaps this can be warranted.
So to be truly 'encyclopedic' as Adam wants to be would require us to remove the section and just add the comments about nightlife under "Modern Mykonos". I think the way it is reverted now is worthless...one sentence does not warrant a section!
I agree with Dionyziz, let's modify my version.
-- User:Andruzzo 1 September 2005
Let's first state a few points in Andruzzo's text that seem pretty much like an advertisment...
This is your opinion about it, after having visited it. In an encyclopedia, we would write...
Further below...
I think that using terms like "party animals" give it a rather informal style. While in Wikipedia we want to keep a user-friendly form of writting, this is more advertisement-like. Let's not use phrases like that. How about...
...and also leave the reference to the other three. Coming to the next sentence, you state...
The reference to international DJs is very important, but more important is the reference to gay clubs, since Mykonos is the one and only gay resort area in Greece. Again, "set foot", "swing from the best gigs" and "spin on the island" are phrases rather unnatural for an encyclopedia. So, how about changing it to...
The second paragraph turns out to be mostly useless here. I suggest that we truncate it to one sentence or two.
What do you think about that? Any additional suggestions on this? Should we add more information, or remove anything else? -- dionyziz 22:02, 1 September 2005 (UTC).
So, what I came up with will be, all together, as follows:
I'm listening to suggestions from both sides :-)
-- dionyziz 06:07, 2 September 2005 (UTC).
It's OK...except that "Gay resort area" should be "Gay-friendly resort area". Otherwise people may believe that only gays go there which is entirely untrue, yet the island is very gay friendly. With that change I think it sounds good.
I assume Adam is OK with it then?
-- User:Andruzzo 2 September 2005
I agree with the change of "Gay resort area" to "Gay-friendly resort area"; it makes the meaning clearer, although both terms are valid here, according to the Gay village article. Adam, we are now waiting for additional suggestions for modifications on our current revision of the article section, as available above. -- dionyziz 16:51, 2 September 2005 (UTC).
Well I will say what I have a problem with, since I'm not sure I can fix it:
Why not say something like "Mykonos also attracts world-famous DJs to its beach bars such as...", which sounds less like "come meet famous DJs on your fabulous vacation". After all, you might not meet any famous DJs, right? So why say that?
Is it necessary to mention "a lot of private parties"? There will be private parties at any given place in the world.
This is the strangest bit for me, I think...I've never been to Mykonos of course, so I have no idea, but is that actually what they are most famous for? It just sounds weird, and something that would be found in a tourist brochure, as I said (or a description of a prize vacation won on a game show). I could do that at a bar at home, why go all the way to Mykonos?
This sounds repetitive...why not just include it above, "Mykonos also attracts world-famous DJs to its beach bars and dance clubs such as..."
I hope this is helpful. Adam Bishop 17:48, 2 September 2005 (UTC)
I agree with the change suggested by Adam regarding the sentence referring to world-famous DJs. Andruzzo, if you agree too let's change that. Regarding the private parties section, I have the impression that he is referring to gay private parties; Andruzzo, please correct me if I'm wrong. As for the last sentence, I think it's there to show that the phrase above, "Mykonos nightlife focuses mainly on bars rather than clubs" is not totally true. Meaning that, although Mykonos nightlife is mainly in Bars, there are also notable clubs too. Let's hear what Andruzzo has to say regarding those changes. -- dionyziz 20:01, 2 September 2005 (UTC).
I agree with these changes sounds good. As far as the "private parties", I think its best we remove altogether that way nothing will be ambiguous. As far as "Mykonos nightlife focuses mainly on..." is best to say exactly what Dionyziz stated "Mykonos nightlife is focused mainly on small bars, yet there are also notable clubs also." How does that sound? I think that it should sound good overall. Adam, thanks for the input. -- User:Andruzzo 6 September 2005
New version would be as follows:
Considering suggestions, or, if you think the latest version is alright to be used in the article, an okay from both sides. -- dionyziz 10:37, 10 September 2005 (UTC).
Adam Bishop, Andruzzo, please reply with okay if you think the latest version is alright, so that we can use it. -- dionyziz 16:42, 12 September 2005 (UTC).
Everything is OK, except for the last sentence. It should be removed. Take that out and then post it. Cheers. --
User:Andruzzo 16 September 2005
So, final version would be as follows:
Seems alright to me. I'm editing the main article to put the version we arrived at. For further suggestions, feel free to use this board. Thanks for arriving to an aggreement ;-)
-- dionyziz 08:59, 17 September 2005 (UTC).
I'm obviously coming in really late on this but I think the Mykonos page is too full of opinions to make it a useful encyclopedic page. "considered by many" is a really weak phrase - How many is many? I'm working on a page for Skopelos and wanted to see what was being written about other Greek Islands. The Mykonos page has begins factually but then devolves into boasting. I would guess that most on the information in the article is better covered by following the commercial links at the bottom of the page. Skopelos-Slim 07:17, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
This is WP:TRAVEL. It is uncited, which is nearly beside the point for a travel "observation" anyway. All cities have bars. The people who frequent them, as do any denizens, love them. They assume they are "better than" the bar scene in any other city. But that does not make them sufficiently notable for inserting in the text. Student7 ( talk) 18:54, 1 April 2011 (UTC)
More fluff has been added but no knowledge to what is supposed to be an encyclopedia not a travelogue. Who cares who visits it? Some of this, if objectively worded, could be under "Economy/tourism." But not worded like "you should visit here." That is WP:SPAM. Student7 ( talk) 18:28, 9 July 2011 (UTC)
I just removed
"Mykonos is one of the most cosmopolitan (Clarify|what does "cosmopolitan" mean for an encyclopedia? Europeans who can afford it visit every island. So what?|date=July 2011) islands in Europe, and has attained iconic (Clarify|people worship it? This is not encyclopedic|date=July 2011) status among European vacationers;(Clarify|This sounds like fluff|date=July 2011) many (Clarify|how many is "many?|date=July 2011) international celebrities (Clarify|Sounds travelish and fluff. who is "international"? Steven Hawking? Madonna?|date=July 2011) visit the island every year. (ref)Tom Masters, Europe on a shoestring, 2008(endref) (ref)Duncan Garwood, Mediterranean Europe, 2009(endref) (ref) Lloyd E. Hudman, Richard H. Jackson, Geography of travel and tourism, 2003(endref)(ref)Harry Coccossis, Alexandra Mexa, The challenge of tourism carrying capacity assessment: theory and practice, 2004(endref)"
Several problems: the requests for clarification were ignored.
Footnotes were supplied, but for which text? Hard to say. Also all hardcopy. Can't be checked by most reviewers. Also placed in "raw" format. Can't really tell whether books exist or not, but this is usually a minor point. While hardcopy references are acceptable when an article is being edited in a scholarly fashion, this one isn't. The paragraph is full of fluff.
I have visited Mykonos myself. It was windy, expensive, and unpleasant. "Quaint" and picturesque. But I wouldn't have come that far for "quaint" ordinarily. So it must have "something" going for it, besides quaint. But editors are not being very informative IMO. Also, they should try for online footnotes for credibility. This is a well-visited place and there should be plenty of those. Hard copy footnotes can be added later when credibility has been established. Student7 ( talk) 12:53, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
The ending for "The Bourne Identity" movie was shot here. http://www.movie-locations.com/movies/b/bourneid_2.html • Sbmeirow • Talk • 08:13, 3 January 2012 (UTC)
There is a famous feature on Mykones, two hills known as the 'breasts of aphrodite', shouldn't they get a mention in the Geography section? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.200.141.159 ( talk) 18:58, 8 December 2014 (UTC)
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![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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What is this all about? This is an Encyclopedia, people. It's about knowledge and not whether we're willing to share or not. Wikipedia is the collaborative work of thousands of people worldwide, and its aim is to collect as much encyclopedia-related information as possible. I consider a map, such as this a very important piece of information for an article about a place. I think that the map removal edit with the given reason "Some people just don't like to share" is not acceptable. I can see that you, User:Andruzzo have added and then removed the map without (reasonable) reasons for doing so. Please state your arguments. I have re-added the map for now; please do not remove it, and let's keep Wikipedia clear of edit wars by first discussing the topic here, before re-editing. Thanks. -- dionyziz 00:44, 14 August 2005 (UTC).
User:Adam_Bishop reverted the changes I had made to the Nightlife section. I reverted back and made some slight mods. I know it may sound 'touristy' to some but a section discussing nightlife will by nature sound like this. If we are to be accurate on the nature of this island (as it has been for over 30 years and continues) someone, like me, who has been there many times and can give an accurate description, should do so. Afterall, anyone who goes to this island goes there because of the nightlife and beaches. There is no other reason to go. If you all think that this should still not be there then remove the nightlife section altogether and just write a sentence in somewhere saying that "the island has great nightlife". I'm just trying to make this article great.
It appears that after a few repetitive reverts on the article by the Wikipedians Adam Bishop and Andruzzo, we have arrived at a disagreement on if we should include a wider section in the Nightlife part of the article. Please, let's discuss the issue here, instead of repeatedly reverting and let's not start a revert duel! I suggest that both of you read the Wikipedia:Resolving disputes article, if you haven't already done so, which contains information on resolving cases like this. Let us propose what exactly we want to appear in the certain section of the article in this talk page, and also exactly what we do not like to be there. It would be best to create a draft of the specific section of the article in this talk page; when we all agree about what should be put there, we can edit the article itself. Although you will still be able to do so, please do not revert or edit the certain section of the article page again, before we arrive at a common agreement.
The two different proposals for the "Nightlife" section were the following, as seen in the last two reverts of the page.
"Nightlife" section by
Adam Bishop (15:03, 1 September 2005, UTC):
"Nightlife" section by
Andruzzo (12:27, 1 September 2005, UTC):
It is clear that
Andruzzo's edit contains a lot more information regarding the island, but is not in an encyclopaedic style, as
Adam Bishop's. However,
Adam Bishop's version misses a lot of information a Wikipedia reader might want to be aware of. Considering both sides, I suggest that we modify
Andruzzo's version by changing its style to fit Wikipedia's as well as make sure it is written in a
Neutral point of view. Please state your opinion and your suggestions about the article here.
-- dionyziz 21:23, 1 September 2005 (UTC).
I think that of the two paragraphs I wrote that the first one should stay and I would agree that perhaps the 2nd is not encyclopedic enough to stay. I think this gives a short accurate account, including the refernece to palces like Ayia Napa:
But we have to keep in mind that when a section is named "Nightlife" the name in itself is 'timely' and that what is considered nightlife today may not be so 10 years down the line. Mykonos has been pretty much the same for the last 30 years which is why, perhaps this can be warranted.
So to be truly 'encyclopedic' as Adam wants to be would require us to remove the section and just add the comments about nightlife under "Modern Mykonos". I think the way it is reverted now is worthless...one sentence does not warrant a section!
I agree with Dionyziz, let's modify my version.
-- User:Andruzzo 1 September 2005
Let's first state a few points in Andruzzo's text that seem pretty much like an advertisment...
This is your opinion about it, after having visited it. In an encyclopedia, we would write...
Further below...
I think that using terms like "party animals" give it a rather informal style. While in Wikipedia we want to keep a user-friendly form of writting, this is more advertisement-like. Let's not use phrases like that. How about...
...and also leave the reference to the other three. Coming to the next sentence, you state...
The reference to international DJs is very important, but more important is the reference to gay clubs, since Mykonos is the one and only gay resort area in Greece. Again, "set foot", "swing from the best gigs" and "spin on the island" are phrases rather unnatural for an encyclopedia. So, how about changing it to...
The second paragraph turns out to be mostly useless here. I suggest that we truncate it to one sentence or two.
What do you think about that? Any additional suggestions on this? Should we add more information, or remove anything else? -- dionyziz 22:02, 1 September 2005 (UTC).
So, what I came up with will be, all together, as follows:
I'm listening to suggestions from both sides :-)
-- dionyziz 06:07, 2 September 2005 (UTC).
It's OK...except that "Gay resort area" should be "Gay-friendly resort area". Otherwise people may believe that only gays go there which is entirely untrue, yet the island is very gay friendly. With that change I think it sounds good.
I assume Adam is OK with it then?
-- User:Andruzzo 2 September 2005
I agree with the change of "Gay resort area" to "Gay-friendly resort area"; it makes the meaning clearer, although both terms are valid here, according to the Gay village article. Adam, we are now waiting for additional suggestions for modifications on our current revision of the article section, as available above. -- dionyziz 16:51, 2 September 2005 (UTC).
Well I will say what I have a problem with, since I'm not sure I can fix it:
Why not say something like "Mykonos also attracts world-famous DJs to its beach bars such as...", which sounds less like "come meet famous DJs on your fabulous vacation". After all, you might not meet any famous DJs, right? So why say that?
Is it necessary to mention "a lot of private parties"? There will be private parties at any given place in the world.
This is the strangest bit for me, I think...I've never been to Mykonos of course, so I have no idea, but is that actually what they are most famous for? It just sounds weird, and something that would be found in a tourist brochure, as I said (or a description of a prize vacation won on a game show). I could do that at a bar at home, why go all the way to Mykonos?
This sounds repetitive...why not just include it above, "Mykonos also attracts world-famous DJs to its beach bars and dance clubs such as..."
I hope this is helpful. Adam Bishop 17:48, 2 September 2005 (UTC)
I agree with the change suggested by Adam regarding the sentence referring to world-famous DJs. Andruzzo, if you agree too let's change that. Regarding the private parties section, I have the impression that he is referring to gay private parties; Andruzzo, please correct me if I'm wrong. As for the last sentence, I think it's there to show that the phrase above, "Mykonos nightlife focuses mainly on bars rather than clubs" is not totally true. Meaning that, although Mykonos nightlife is mainly in Bars, there are also notable clubs too. Let's hear what Andruzzo has to say regarding those changes. -- dionyziz 20:01, 2 September 2005 (UTC).
I agree with these changes sounds good. As far as the "private parties", I think its best we remove altogether that way nothing will be ambiguous. As far as "Mykonos nightlife focuses mainly on..." is best to say exactly what Dionyziz stated "Mykonos nightlife is focused mainly on small bars, yet there are also notable clubs also." How does that sound? I think that it should sound good overall. Adam, thanks for the input. -- User:Andruzzo 6 September 2005
New version would be as follows:
Considering suggestions, or, if you think the latest version is alright to be used in the article, an okay from both sides. -- dionyziz 10:37, 10 September 2005 (UTC).
Adam Bishop, Andruzzo, please reply with okay if you think the latest version is alright, so that we can use it. -- dionyziz 16:42, 12 September 2005 (UTC).
Everything is OK, except for the last sentence. It should be removed. Take that out and then post it. Cheers. --
User:Andruzzo 16 September 2005
So, final version would be as follows:
Seems alright to me. I'm editing the main article to put the version we arrived at. For further suggestions, feel free to use this board. Thanks for arriving to an aggreement ;-)
-- dionyziz 08:59, 17 September 2005 (UTC).
I'm obviously coming in really late on this but I think the Mykonos page is too full of opinions to make it a useful encyclopedic page. "considered by many" is a really weak phrase - How many is many? I'm working on a page for Skopelos and wanted to see what was being written about other Greek Islands. The Mykonos page has begins factually but then devolves into boasting. I would guess that most on the information in the article is better covered by following the commercial links at the bottom of the page. Skopelos-Slim 07:17, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
This is WP:TRAVEL. It is uncited, which is nearly beside the point for a travel "observation" anyway. All cities have bars. The people who frequent them, as do any denizens, love them. They assume they are "better than" the bar scene in any other city. But that does not make them sufficiently notable for inserting in the text. Student7 ( talk) 18:54, 1 April 2011 (UTC)
More fluff has been added but no knowledge to what is supposed to be an encyclopedia not a travelogue. Who cares who visits it? Some of this, if objectively worded, could be under "Economy/tourism." But not worded like "you should visit here." That is WP:SPAM. Student7 ( talk) 18:28, 9 July 2011 (UTC)
I just removed
"Mykonos is one of the most cosmopolitan (Clarify|what does "cosmopolitan" mean for an encyclopedia? Europeans who can afford it visit every island. So what?|date=July 2011) islands in Europe, and has attained iconic (Clarify|people worship it? This is not encyclopedic|date=July 2011) status among European vacationers;(Clarify|This sounds like fluff|date=July 2011) many (Clarify|how many is "many?|date=July 2011) international celebrities (Clarify|Sounds travelish and fluff. who is "international"? Steven Hawking? Madonna?|date=July 2011) visit the island every year. (ref)Tom Masters, Europe on a shoestring, 2008(endref) (ref)Duncan Garwood, Mediterranean Europe, 2009(endref) (ref) Lloyd E. Hudman, Richard H. Jackson, Geography of travel and tourism, 2003(endref)(ref)Harry Coccossis, Alexandra Mexa, The challenge of tourism carrying capacity assessment: theory and practice, 2004(endref)"
Several problems: the requests for clarification were ignored.
Footnotes were supplied, but for which text? Hard to say. Also all hardcopy. Can't be checked by most reviewers. Also placed in "raw" format. Can't really tell whether books exist or not, but this is usually a minor point. While hardcopy references are acceptable when an article is being edited in a scholarly fashion, this one isn't. The paragraph is full of fluff.
I have visited Mykonos myself. It was windy, expensive, and unpleasant. "Quaint" and picturesque. But I wouldn't have come that far for "quaint" ordinarily. So it must have "something" going for it, besides quaint. But editors are not being very informative IMO. Also, they should try for online footnotes for credibility. This is a well-visited place and there should be plenty of those. Hard copy footnotes can be added later when credibility has been established. Student7 ( talk) 12:53, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
The ending for "The Bourne Identity" movie was shot here. http://www.movie-locations.com/movies/b/bourneid_2.html • Sbmeirow • Talk • 08:13, 3 January 2012 (UTC)
There is a famous feature on Mykones, two hills known as the 'breasts of aphrodite', shouldn't they get a mention in the Geography section? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.200.141.159 ( talk) 18:58, 8 December 2014 (UTC)
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