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The whole "Vaisnava prayers" section is completely superfluous. Aside from maybe the first couple sentences, it shouldn't be in this article. It completely detracts from anything having to do with the song and goes off about various Hindu chants. Don't wanna edit it, but somebody should. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.36.123.153 ( talk) 22:47, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
Evidently January 1971, must refer to England, because here in the U.S. this single was released In Novemebr 1970. It was number one by Christmas 1970. -- Tom A. Roberts
A new addition to the article says Clapton played guitar. I know he played on the album but was he on this song? Sounds like George's lead (stylistically), and acoustics, to me. I don't have my CD with me so I can't check the sleeve notes. Anyone? -- kingboyk 15:33, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
Clapton may be on guitar. He did do some takes on the song, but I don't know whether these were used or not. --Tom A. Roberts
Added info box and a cover image.-- Dakota ~ ° 06:23, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
Is that correct? It sounds wrong somehow. Could it be first POST Beatles single by a Beatle to hit #1 ? The Beatles had a LOT of #1s I thought... See 20_Greatest_Hits and 1 (album) all hits that hit #1 somewhere. (but maybe?? none that were both?) There is another source for this data but I can't think of the article title off hand. Nice work on the cleanup overall! ++ Lar: t/ c 06:24, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
cryptomnesia seems like it's not necessarily the only replacement for unintentionally plagiarized.. (ised) so I suggest we consider not using the term unless we have a cite that it was that specific condition that caused the issue. ++ Lar: t/ c 10:44, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
Right after I added a bit of length to this article, someone added a tag saying it needs to be divided into sections. I actually thought of that as I was adding the material, but now that I look at the article again, I am not sure how you would do it. You could have two sections (after the first paragraph), and the second section could be called "Legal Controversy" but I am not sure what the first section would be called. If you try to divide the information after the first paragraph but before the lawsuit information into more than one additional section (for a total of three or more), some of the sections would be only a few lines long, and would look silly. It might be better to leave it as it is. 6SJ7 00:42, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
The songs riff was used in the Oasis Song Supersonic. This sounds like original reasearch, and if there is no citation added it should be deleted.
I've heard that GH composed the tune by inverting some other song, i.e. flipping high and low notes, and of course backed into "He's So Fine" by bad luck. Anyone know what that song was (assuming it's true)? Seems to me that belongs in the article. — Tamfang 06:53, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
GH told me that he'd based MSL on 'Oh Happy Day' and the overall structure is very similar. A shame that just three or four notes should have been picked out. He also said that at the end of the trial the judge 'said he liked both tunes' when the whole point of the hearing was to establish that they were the same...
David Coxell ( talk) 12:37, 7 April 2015 (UTC)
I have reviewed this article and think that it deserves a B-class. If it had a bit more information, and a lot more references, it could be a GA. egde 17:11, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
Image:Msweetlord cover.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
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If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. BetacommandBot 23:17, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
Shouldn't this read "Rilo Kiley's song "Silver Lining" has a guitar riff which is structurally similar to "He's So Fine"? Just curious. -- - It doesn't stick. ( talk) 04:45, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
I find the last line somehow out of place, weasel words? Regards, Oscar ( 192.94.94.106 ( talk) 21:46, 9 January 2009 (UTC))
"The song is primarily about Hindu God Krishna."
I find this statement overly simplified, offensive, and incorrect, and the citation for it is notably biased. The song does include parts of a Hare Krishna mantra, but it also includes the word "hallelujah" which is a Christian reference. Harrison was a proponent of the belief in religious unity, and that Krishna and God were aspects of the same entity.
Note the following passage from http://www.songfacts.com/detail.php?id=1172 that refers to this (I haven't tracked down the original source).
'Harrison wrote this about the Eastern religions he was studying. The lyrics contain references to the Hare Krishna faith, with some of their mantra written into the lyrics. Harrison said he was pointing out that "Hallelujah and Hare Krishna are quite the same thing."'
The claim as it currently stands is misleading.
-- Doc ( talk) 15:32, 26 April 2010 (UTC)
Well, first of all «Hallelujah» is a joyous expression the Christians have, but «Hare Krishna» has a mystical side to it. It’s more than just glorifying God; it’s asking to become His servant. And because of the way the mantra is put together, with the mystic spiritual energy contained in those syllables, it’s much closer to God than the way Christianity currently seems to be representing Him…My idea in "My Sweet Lord", because it sounded like a "pop song, " was to sneak up on them a bit. The point was to have the people not offended by "Hallelujah, " and by the time it gets to "Hare Krishna, " they’re already hooked, and their foot’s tapping, and they’re already singing along «Hallelujah», to kind of lull them into a sense of false security. And then suddenly it turns into "Hare Krishna, " and they will all be singing that before they know what’s happened, and they will think, «Hey, I thought I wasn’t supposed to like Hare Krishna!»…It was just a little trick really. And it didn’t offend. For some reason I never got any offensive feedback from Christians…
-- Gaura79 ( talk) 17:03, 26 April 2010 (UTC)
I like the new Reception section. Should it be moved to after the Legal controversy section, since the Reception section mentions "He's So Fine" a couple of times? GoingBatty ( talk) 14:58, 1 April 2012 (UTC)
As noted in comment in the article's edit history, I've added section heading and table for US gold certification, but can't see how to change sales figure from '0'. (Embarrassing ...) Minimum sales would have to be 1,000,000, although in Keith Badham's Beatles Diary Vol 2, under 30 Jan 1971 (p. 25) there's this: "By the end of the month, figures reveal that the single has passed the 200,000 sales mark [in the UK], with around 30,000 copies being sold a day. In America, the sales have gone past the two million mark." So ... two things, I guess: does anyone know how to confirm US sales figures (whether 1 mill or 2 mill)?; and can anyone discover sales figures and certification for "My Sweet Lord" in the UK? Thanks. JG66 ( talk) 08:59, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
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Reviewer: GreatOrangePumpkin ( talk · contribs) 09:09, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
The last paragraph is odd, making it sound as if religious controversies about the song were still on someone's front burner. Why the use of present tense to describe religious reception of the song (or rejection), when the only supporting citation is from the 80s? This makes no sense: "Various Christian fundamentalist anti-rock activists object (present tense) to the chanting of "Hare Krishna" in "My Sweet Lord" as anti-Christian or satanic, while some born-again Christians appear to have adopted (perfect infinitive, not supported by the cite) the song as an anthem." The rest of the article seems to anchor verb tenses to the dates of the citations; not this one. At any rate the paragraph seems out of place, belonging in the reception section. What its reception among fundamentalists has to do with its composition -- or rather, how it's received by them relates more to composition and background than to its reception -- is really not clear. rasqual ( talk) 02:40, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
This article is ridiculously bad in the copyright infringement section. Harrison lost the suit. He was adjudicated to have infringed "He's So Fine". He paid damages. And yet the tone and content of that section makes it sound like it was all "alleged" and "accidental", with tons of scare quotes and statements about how there was no clear winner, etc. It reads like it was written by Harrison's defense team.
I'm not saying this has to be a screed against Harrison, but it should be written with a NPOV. He was found to have copied "My Sweet Lord", his defenses (including that it was accidental) were rejected, and he paid damages. If Harrison's excuses and rationalizations are mentioned at all, it should be in the context that they were rejected by the courts. And the main focus of the section should be that he lost the suit and was found to be an infringer. It should be much shorter and the discussion should be focused on the ways in which he copied the song, with only a subsidiary focus on what the arguments he made which the court rejected.
Someone needs to fix this. 142.129.202.86 ( talk) 09:09, 29 August 2014 (UTC)
This is the actual judgment from http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?q=bright+tunes+v.+harrisongs&hl=en&as_sdt=400006&case=7721050309378220492&scilh=0
'What happened? I conclude that the composer,[12] in seeking musical materials to clothe his thoughts, was working with various possibilities. As he tried this possibility and that, there came to the surface of his mind a particular combination that pleased him as being one he felt would be appealing to a prospective listener; in other words, that this combination of sounds would work. Why? Because his subconscious knew it already had worked in a song his conscious mind did not remember. Having arrived at this pleasing combination of sounds, the recording was made, the lead sheet prepared for copyright and the song became an enormous success. Did Harrison deliberately use the music of He's So Fine? I do not believe he did so deliberately. Nevertheless, it is clear that My Sweet Lord is the very same song as He's So Fine with different words,[13] and Harrison had access to He's So Fine. This is, under the law, infringement of copyright, and is no less so even though subconsciously accomplished.'
Woodywoodpeckerthe3rd ( talk) 10:23, 29 August 2014 (UTC)
Joey Self ( talk) 20:58, 25 March 2018 (UTC)I am Joseph Self, the attorney that wrote the article referenced above http://abbeyrd.net/mysweet.htm. The "astronomical" quote attributed to me was in reference to the legal fees, and was clearly stated as conjecture on my part: "While the legal expenses in this case are undoubtedly astronomical..." I don't know I'd say I was "enthusiastic" about Judge Owen, but I did point out that in footnote 7: "While I take issue with part of the judge's ruling on the damages aspect of this case, the litigants could not have found themselves before a more able jurist in determining the question involving the music of the two compositions. Judge Richard Owen, the district court trial judge, has also composed music, and among his compositions is a three-act opera entitled Mary Dyer. He has also conducted orchestras, and his wife, Mary Owen, has appeared with the Metropolitan Opera Company in New York." I stand by that--I've not heard of other federal court judges that also composed an opera that was performed by the Met, and thus be able to understand what a musicologist was telling him. Did he fail to understand pop or rock music? I noted his opinion as to the plagiarism was not challenged on appeal, so the Harrison camp was satisfied that his decision would not be overturned on appeal. I can be reached at joeyself@juno.com if there are any other questions.
The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:My Sweet Lord/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.
Needs sections, copyediting (reads like a list in places), citations, expansion if possible. -- kingboyk 23:56, 3 July 2006 (UTC) |
Last edited at 23:56, 3 July 2006 (UTC). Substituted at 00:42, 30 April 2016 (UTC)
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My Sweet Lord has two entries in the number one charts for the UK on Wikipedia. One is at position 296 on the all time list at /info/en/?search=List_of_UK_Singles_Chart_number_ones_of_the_1970s, and again at position 918 at /info/en/?search=List_of_UK_Singles_Chart_number_ones_of_the_2000s.
Though the tracks it was coupled with are different on each release, the lead track is exactly the same. I don't want to rush into an edit, as it would have a knock on effect all the way down the list, and potential repurcussions for subsequet milestone records, nevertheless, I am pretty sure it should not be listed for the second time. What is Wikipedia's policy on this?
Steve Kidd (
talk)
10:43, 18 April 2018 (UTC)
The info box lists George Harrison as the only songwriter. Shouldn’t Ronnie Mack be listed there as well? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.180.2.137 ( talk) 15:23, 23 October 2019 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
My Sweet Lord article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article is written in British English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, travelled, centre, defence, artefact, analyse) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
My Sweet Lord has been listed as one of the Music good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it. | ||||||||||
|
This article is rated GA-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article has been viewed enough times in a single week to appear in the Top 25 Report. The week in which this happened: |
The whole "Vaisnava prayers" section is completely superfluous. Aside from maybe the first couple sentences, it shouldn't be in this article. It completely detracts from anything having to do with the song and goes off about various Hindu chants. Don't wanna edit it, but somebody should. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.36.123.153 ( talk) 22:47, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
Evidently January 1971, must refer to England, because here in the U.S. this single was released In Novemebr 1970. It was number one by Christmas 1970. -- Tom A. Roberts
A new addition to the article says Clapton played guitar. I know he played on the album but was he on this song? Sounds like George's lead (stylistically), and acoustics, to me. I don't have my CD with me so I can't check the sleeve notes. Anyone? -- kingboyk 15:33, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
Clapton may be on guitar. He did do some takes on the song, but I don't know whether these were used or not. --Tom A. Roberts
Added info box and a cover image.-- Dakota ~ ° 06:23, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
Is that correct? It sounds wrong somehow. Could it be first POST Beatles single by a Beatle to hit #1 ? The Beatles had a LOT of #1s I thought... See 20_Greatest_Hits and 1 (album) all hits that hit #1 somewhere. (but maybe?? none that were both?) There is another source for this data but I can't think of the article title off hand. Nice work on the cleanup overall! ++ Lar: t/ c 06:24, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
cryptomnesia seems like it's not necessarily the only replacement for unintentionally plagiarized.. (ised) so I suggest we consider not using the term unless we have a cite that it was that specific condition that caused the issue. ++ Lar: t/ c 10:44, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
Right after I added a bit of length to this article, someone added a tag saying it needs to be divided into sections. I actually thought of that as I was adding the material, but now that I look at the article again, I am not sure how you would do it. You could have two sections (after the first paragraph), and the second section could be called "Legal Controversy" but I am not sure what the first section would be called. If you try to divide the information after the first paragraph but before the lawsuit information into more than one additional section (for a total of three or more), some of the sections would be only a few lines long, and would look silly. It might be better to leave it as it is. 6SJ7 00:42, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
The songs riff was used in the Oasis Song Supersonic. This sounds like original reasearch, and if there is no citation added it should be deleted.
I've heard that GH composed the tune by inverting some other song, i.e. flipping high and low notes, and of course backed into "He's So Fine" by bad luck. Anyone know what that song was (assuming it's true)? Seems to me that belongs in the article. — Tamfang 06:53, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
GH told me that he'd based MSL on 'Oh Happy Day' and the overall structure is very similar. A shame that just three or four notes should have been picked out. He also said that at the end of the trial the judge 'said he liked both tunes' when the whole point of the hearing was to establish that they were the same...
David Coxell ( talk) 12:37, 7 April 2015 (UTC)
I have reviewed this article and think that it deserves a B-class. If it had a bit more information, and a lot more references, it could be a GA. egde 17:11, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
Image:Msweetlord cover.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. BetacommandBot 23:17, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
Shouldn't this read "Rilo Kiley's song "Silver Lining" has a guitar riff which is structurally similar to "He's So Fine"? Just curious. -- - It doesn't stick. ( talk) 04:45, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
I find the last line somehow out of place, weasel words? Regards, Oscar ( 192.94.94.106 ( talk) 21:46, 9 January 2009 (UTC))
"The song is primarily about Hindu God Krishna."
I find this statement overly simplified, offensive, and incorrect, and the citation for it is notably biased. The song does include parts of a Hare Krishna mantra, but it also includes the word "hallelujah" which is a Christian reference. Harrison was a proponent of the belief in religious unity, and that Krishna and God were aspects of the same entity.
Note the following passage from http://www.songfacts.com/detail.php?id=1172 that refers to this (I haven't tracked down the original source).
'Harrison wrote this about the Eastern religions he was studying. The lyrics contain references to the Hare Krishna faith, with some of their mantra written into the lyrics. Harrison said he was pointing out that "Hallelujah and Hare Krishna are quite the same thing."'
The claim as it currently stands is misleading.
-- Doc ( talk) 15:32, 26 April 2010 (UTC)
Well, first of all «Hallelujah» is a joyous expression the Christians have, but «Hare Krishna» has a mystical side to it. It’s more than just glorifying God; it’s asking to become His servant. And because of the way the mantra is put together, with the mystic spiritual energy contained in those syllables, it’s much closer to God than the way Christianity currently seems to be representing Him…My idea in "My Sweet Lord", because it sounded like a "pop song, " was to sneak up on them a bit. The point was to have the people not offended by "Hallelujah, " and by the time it gets to "Hare Krishna, " they’re already hooked, and their foot’s tapping, and they’re already singing along «Hallelujah», to kind of lull them into a sense of false security. And then suddenly it turns into "Hare Krishna, " and they will all be singing that before they know what’s happened, and they will think, «Hey, I thought I wasn’t supposed to like Hare Krishna!»…It was just a little trick really. And it didn’t offend. For some reason I never got any offensive feedback from Christians…
-- Gaura79 ( talk) 17:03, 26 April 2010 (UTC)
I like the new Reception section. Should it be moved to after the Legal controversy section, since the Reception section mentions "He's So Fine" a couple of times? GoingBatty ( talk) 14:58, 1 April 2012 (UTC)
As noted in comment in the article's edit history, I've added section heading and table for US gold certification, but can't see how to change sales figure from '0'. (Embarrassing ...) Minimum sales would have to be 1,000,000, although in Keith Badham's Beatles Diary Vol 2, under 30 Jan 1971 (p. 25) there's this: "By the end of the month, figures reveal that the single has passed the 200,000 sales mark [in the UK], with around 30,000 copies being sold a day. In America, the sales have gone past the two million mark." So ... two things, I guess: does anyone know how to confirm US sales figures (whether 1 mill or 2 mill)?; and can anyone discover sales figures and certification for "My Sweet Lord" in the UK? Thanks. JG66 ( talk) 08:59, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
GA toolbox |
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Reviewer: GreatOrangePumpkin ( talk · contribs) 09:09, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
The last paragraph is odd, making it sound as if religious controversies about the song were still on someone's front burner. Why the use of present tense to describe religious reception of the song (or rejection), when the only supporting citation is from the 80s? This makes no sense: "Various Christian fundamentalist anti-rock activists object (present tense) to the chanting of "Hare Krishna" in "My Sweet Lord" as anti-Christian or satanic, while some born-again Christians appear to have adopted (perfect infinitive, not supported by the cite) the song as an anthem." The rest of the article seems to anchor verb tenses to the dates of the citations; not this one. At any rate the paragraph seems out of place, belonging in the reception section. What its reception among fundamentalists has to do with its composition -- or rather, how it's received by them relates more to composition and background than to its reception -- is really not clear. rasqual ( talk) 02:40, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
This article is ridiculously bad in the copyright infringement section. Harrison lost the suit. He was adjudicated to have infringed "He's So Fine". He paid damages. And yet the tone and content of that section makes it sound like it was all "alleged" and "accidental", with tons of scare quotes and statements about how there was no clear winner, etc. It reads like it was written by Harrison's defense team.
I'm not saying this has to be a screed against Harrison, but it should be written with a NPOV. He was found to have copied "My Sweet Lord", his defenses (including that it was accidental) were rejected, and he paid damages. If Harrison's excuses and rationalizations are mentioned at all, it should be in the context that they were rejected by the courts. And the main focus of the section should be that he lost the suit and was found to be an infringer. It should be much shorter and the discussion should be focused on the ways in which he copied the song, with only a subsidiary focus on what the arguments he made which the court rejected.
Someone needs to fix this. 142.129.202.86 ( talk) 09:09, 29 August 2014 (UTC)
This is the actual judgment from http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?q=bright+tunes+v.+harrisongs&hl=en&as_sdt=400006&case=7721050309378220492&scilh=0
'What happened? I conclude that the composer,[12] in seeking musical materials to clothe his thoughts, was working with various possibilities. As he tried this possibility and that, there came to the surface of his mind a particular combination that pleased him as being one he felt would be appealing to a prospective listener; in other words, that this combination of sounds would work. Why? Because his subconscious knew it already had worked in a song his conscious mind did not remember. Having arrived at this pleasing combination of sounds, the recording was made, the lead sheet prepared for copyright and the song became an enormous success. Did Harrison deliberately use the music of He's So Fine? I do not believe he did so deliberately. Nevertheless, it is clear that My Sweet Lord is the very same song as He's So Fine with different words,[13] and Harrison had access to He's So Fine. This is, under the law, infringement of copyright, and is no less so even though subconsciously accomplished.'
Woodywoodpeckerthe3rd ( talk) 10:23, 29 August 2014 (UTC)
Joey Self ( talk) 20:58, 25 March 2018 (UTC)I am Joseph Self, the attorney that wrote the article referenced above http://abbeyrd.net/mysweet.htm. The "astronomical" quote attributed to me was in reference to the legal fees, and was clearly stated as conjecture on my part: "While the legal expenses in this case are undoubtedly astronomical..." I don't know I'd say I was "enthusiastic" about Judge Owen, but I did point out that in footnote 7: "While I take issue with part of the judge's ruling on the damages aspect of this case, the litigants could not have found themselves before a more able jurist in determining the question involving the music of the two compositions. Judge Richard Owen, the district court trial judge, has also composed music, and among his compositions is a three-act opera entitled Mary Dyer. He has also conducted orchestras, and his wife, Mary Owen, has appeared with the Metropolitan Opera Company in New York." I stand by that--I've not heard of other federal court judges that also composed an opera that was performed by the Met, and thus be able to understand what a musicologist was telling him. Did he fail to understand pop or rock music? I noted his opinion as to the plagiarism was not challenged on appeal, so the Harrison camp was satisfied that his decision would not be overturned on appeal. I can be reached at joeyself@juno.com if there are any other questions.
The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:My Sweet Lord/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.
Needs sections, copyediting (reads like a list in places), citations, expansion if possible. -- kingboyk 23:56, 3 July 2006 (UTC) |
Last edited at 23:56, 3 July 2006 (UTC). Substituted at 00:42, 30 April 2016 (UTC)
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My Sweet Lord has two entries in the number one charts for the UK on Wikipedia. One is at position 296 on the all time list at /info/en/?search=List_of_UK_Singles_Chart_number_ones_of_the_1970s, and again at position 918 at /info/en/?search=List_of_UK_Singles_Chart_number_ones_of_the_2000s.
Though the tracks it was coupled with are different on each release, the lead track is exactly the same. I don't want to rush into an edit, as it would have a knock on effect all the way down the list, and potential repurcussions for subsequet milestone records, nevertheless, I am pretty sure it should not be listed for the second time. What is Wikipedia's policy on this?
Steve Kidd (
talk)
10:43, 18 April 2018 (UTC)
The info box lists George Harrison as the only songwriter. Shouldn’t Ronnie Mack be listed there as well? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.180.2.137 ( talk) 15:23, 23 October 2019 (UTC)