Murder of Yvonne Fletcher is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so. | |||||||||||||
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Despite its title, the last sentence of the intro tells us that no one has been convicted of this crime.
Then it is not a murder ... yet. It is a homicide. I have made this point on a couple of articles about unsolved or unresolved killings here in the US, and I do not know if English law handles this differently (I wouldn't imagine that it does), but here the killing of one person by another or others is not officially a murder until someone charged with that offense is convicted by a trier of fact or pleads guilty (I do not know if " no contest" yields the same result even though the defendant gets punished as if they had pled guilty) in court. Only after a judicial proceeding resulting in those outcomes is the crime considered a murder, as in the convict is established to have acted with sufficiently sound-minded intent and without justification to have caused the death of the decedent.
A few years ago the AP Stylebook was changed to reflect this distinction. I do not know if the British media, at any level, similarly distinguish the two terms; I would hope that some of them do (by which I do not mean, of course, the Daily Mail).
So it just galls me to see the article titled this way. I have tried in the past to argue this point on other articles and met with a lot of resistance. But I have not wavered one bit from the certainty that as long as we title articles about unsolved killings "Murder of ..." because COMMONNAME, we are doing immense violence to BLP, NPOV and OR by essentially convicting unknown (or not) individuals of crimes they have not even been charged with.
I'm not asking for a move here, just for this issue to be considered by others in the case of this particular article. But since this appeared on the Main Page, I feel I need to do more than just grit my teeth. Daniel Case ( talk) 20:33, 17 April 2018 (UTC)
The term "homicide" covers the offences of murder, manslaughter and infanticide1. Murder and manslaughter are common law offences that have never been defined by statute, although they have been modified by statute.
a person who has been arrested in respect of an offence initially classified as homicide6 and charged with homicide, including those who were subsequently convicted
Murder and manslaughter are two of the offences that constitute homicide.
I do not see it as flogging a dead horse; the AP is right, and eventually Wikipedia will be too. Daniel Case ( talk) 05:22, 19 April 2018 (UTC)
Please explain your reversions here: Abductive ( reasoning) 09:27, 17 April 2023 (UTC)
Murder of Yvonne Fletcher is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so. | |||||||||||||
This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on April 17, 2018. | |||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||
Facts from this article were featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the " On this day..." column on April 17, 2011, April 17, 2014, April 17, 2023, and April 17, 2024. | |||||||||||||
Current status: Featured article |
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Murder of Yvonne Fletcher article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1 |
This article is rated FA-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Despite its title, the last sentence of the intro tells us that no one has been convicted of this crime.
Then it is not a murder ... yet. It is a homicide. I have made this point on a couple of articles about unsolved or unresolved killings here in the US, and I do not know if English law handles this differently (I wouldn't imagine that it does), but here the killing of one person by another or others is not officially a murder until someone charged with that offense is convicted by a trier of fact or pleads guilty (I do not know if " no contest" yields the same result even though the defendant gets punished as if they had pled guilty) in court. Only after a judicial proceeding resulting in those outcomes is the crime considered a murder, as in the convict is established to have acted with sufficiently sound-minded intent and without justification to have caused the death of the decedent.
A few years ago the AP Stylebook was changed to reflect this distinction. I do not know if the British media, at any level, similarly distinguish the two terms; I would hope that some of them do (by which I do not mean, of course, the Daily Mail).
So it just galls me to see the article titled this way. I have tried in the past to argue this point on other articles and met with a lot of resistance. But I have not wavered one bit from the certainty that as long as we title articles about unsolved killings "Murder of ..." because COMMONNAME, we are doing immense violence to BLP, NPOV and OR by essentially convicting unknown (or not) individuals of crimes they have not even been charged with.
I'm not asking for a move here, just for this issue to be considered by others in the case of this particular article. But since this appeared on the Main Page, I feel I need to do more than just grit my teeth. Daniel Case ( talk) 20:33, 17 April 2018 (UTC)
The term "homicide" covers the offences of murder, manslaughter and infanticide1. Murder and manslaughter are common law offences that have never been defined by statute, although they have been modified by statute.
a person who has been arrested in respect of an offence initially classified as homicide6 and charged with homicide, including those who were subsequently convicted
Murder and manslaughter are two of the offences that constitute homicide.
I do not see it as flogging a dead horse; the AP is right, and eventually Wikipedia will be too. Daniel Case ( talk) 05:22, 19 April 2018 (UTC)
Please explain your reversions here: Abductive ( reasoning) 09:27, 17 April 2023 (UTC)