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Murder of Botham Jean article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
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Some readers could probably use help with the pronunciation of "Guyger" (which I take to be homophonous with "geiger" as in "counter"), and most would probably benefit from help with "Botham Jean". Local broadcasters here in Seattle, and at least some national ones, are pronouncing "Jean" as "John", but it is not clear to me whether this is how those who knew him said it (I would have given it a bit more French, myself). IPA, classic M-W, and/or an OGG file would be better than the nothing now provided. -- Haruo ( talk) 17:52, 1 October 2019 (UTC)
At least two editors are trying to remove or minimize - through language like "It has been reported" - the skin color of Jean and Guyger. The racial aspects of the murder have been reported in a wide range of reliable sources including those in the article. Removing or minimizing this aspect of the case is a clear violation of our requirements to write articles from a neutral point of view based on the cited reporting. Please do not remove or minimize this part of the article. The Mirror Cracked ( talk) 21:43, 1 October 2019 (UTC)
"has been reported". Bus stop ( talk) 22:10, 1 October 2019 (UTC)
Are you suggesting this Wikipedia article should say "The New York Times has emphasized the racial aspect of this case"? Certainly, you are not suggesting that the New York Times dictates Wikipedia articles. Mfwitten ( talk) 22:40, 1 October 2019 (UTC)
A super rigorous review of news sources (I googled "Botham Jean" and went to the news tab) gives the following from the first two pages (focusing most on national sources):
racist texts" and 4th ¶ says "
Guyger is white and Jean was black, and his death stoked protests, led to Guyger's firing and renewed conversations about police use of force and racial bias."
When a white ex-Dallas police officer recounted her thinking as she fired the two shots that killed an innocent black man in his own living room last year, she told a jury it was fear, not racism, that drove her to pull the trigger."
Amber Guyger killed an unarmed black man, Botham Jean, in his own apartment on a different floor from hers. She faces up to 99 years in prison."
Former Dallas police officer Amber Guyger insisted on the witness stand that her shooting of an unarmed black man in his apartment was "not about hate" but about her fear that he would attack her."
Prosecutors maintained that Guyger, who is white, committed murder when she overlooked signs that the apartment she entered wasn't her own — the wrong floor, the smell of marijuana coming from the apartment, a bright red doormat — and shot Jean, a 26-year-old black accountant who was sitting in his living room eating ice cream when Guyger killed him last September."
Guyger, who is white, was returning home from a 13 ½ hour shift and was off duty but still in uniform when she shot Jean, a black St. Lucia native who worked as an accountant. Guyger parked on what she believed to be the third floor of her apartment building's garage, but she had actually parked on the building's fourth floor, where Jean lived directly above her. Jean, 26, was sitting on his couch and eating ice cream when Guyger found the door ajar and opened fire."
A Texas jury ruled Tuesday that a white police officer who shot and killed an innocent black man in his own home is guilty of murder. The conviction came even after a widely criticized last-minute decision from a judge, which allowed jurors to take into account a controversial law that could have cleared her of wrongdoing."
Note that paragraphs in news coverage are usually 1 or two sentences each. If the title of the article mentioned race, I included it in the link.
My take is that the race of the murderer and her victim are clearly relevant and represented as important introductory information by most RS. I think we should do the same in our lead per WP:DUE. EvergreenFir (talk) 16:41, 2 October 2019 (UTC)
There has been 4 days of WP:SILENCE, so I will WP:BOLDly add this information to the lead. EvergreenFir (talk) 00:05, 7 October 2019 (UTC)
Like, such as:
{{ r | DN_1 | p=1 | q="After the verdict, Ben Crump, an attorney for the Jean family, said 26-year-old Jean was a "near perfect" person. "This jury had to make history in America today, because Botham was the best that we had to offer," Crump said. "Twenty-six year old, college-educated black man, certified public accountant, working for one of the big three accounting firms in the world, PricewaterhouseCoopers." "But it shouldn't take all of that for unarmed black and brown people in America to get justice," Crump said." }}
My concern is:
I'd suggest:
{{cite news}}
template's quote
parameters,{{reflist|group=quotes}}
section, or<ref>
tag.― cobaltcigs 18:13, 3 October 2019 (UTC)
{{r}}
function. (Without a page number specified, the quote does not display at all, hence the 1).{{cite news}}
format, I'm ok with that. I like your suggestion b).I don't recall seeing actual encyclopedic content being delegated to tool tips;?
{{r}}
template,[
[1]] it includes the quote parameter. And "tool tips" seems to mean anything displayed on mouse-over...that includes the normal reference info displayed on mouseover of a superscript reference, like a news article's title, author, date, etc. On mouse-over of a {{cite news}}
reference with a quote, the quote is included there. With the {{r}}
function, the quote displays separately, over the page number; (only when page number is included).---
Avatar317
(talk) 20:26, 3 October 2019 (UTC)Pinging Bus stop. The citations are working correctly, just appears wrong because of the tooltip thing. EvergreenFir (talk) 17:40, 4 October 2019 (UTC)
quote=
parameter in the {{
cite web}}.
EvergreenFir
(talk) 19:23, 4 October 2019 (UTC)This article says Guyger was at the apartment above her apartment, not below. https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/02/us/amber-guyger-trial-sentencing/index.html But as an off-topic question, I'm curious to know how she couldn't have noticed that the apartment should have looked different than hers (different furniture) and such, was she not drunk at the time? Guess not. 170.76.231.162 ( talk) 20:15, 3 October 2019 (UTC).
Deserves its own entry. I'll start it shortly if no one else does, but maybe someone can get it going. Bangabandhu ( talk) 14:50, 7 October 2019 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
On October 8, Dallas Police announced that they had three suspects arrested in Brown's killing and stated that they were involved in a drug deal that turned deadly. [1]
Please include that the suspects were from Alexandria Louisiana and that Brown was believed to have been dealing drugs to them. Two of the suspects have also not yet been arrested.
On October 8, Dallas Police announced that they identified three suspects arrested in Brown's killing and stated that they were involved in a drug deal that turned deadly. [1] Police said that Brown was attempting to deal drugs to the three suspects, identified as Jacquerious Mitchell, 20, Michael Mitchell, 32, and Thaddeous Green, 22, and that they traveled from Alexandria, Louisiana to make the purchase. [2] Jacquerious Mitchell has been arrested while the other two suspects remain at large. [1] [2] 137.70.164.141 ( talk) 23:41, 8 October 2019 (UTC)
References |
---|
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
References
|
I've always been curious who paid Amber's legal fees. She grew up in poverty so it wasn't her family. She didn't pay over a million on a former cop salary. She was lawyered, had someone do a makeover, was coached how to speak etc. Where'd all the money for that come from? 72.110.18.135 ( talk) 05:01, 20 February 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Murder of Botham Jean article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
While the biographies of living persons policy does not apply directly to the subject of this article, it may contain material that relates to living persons, such as friends and family of persons no longer living, or living persons involved in the subject matter. Unsourced or poorly sourced contentious material about living persons must be removed immediately. If such material is re-inserted repeatedly, or if there are other concerns related to this policy, please see this noticeboard. |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
It is requested that an image or photograph be
included in this article to
improve its quality. Please replace this template with a more specific
media request template where possible.
The Free Image Search Tool or Openverse Creative Commons Search may be able to locate suitable images on Flickr and other web sites. |
Some readers could probably use help with the pronunciation of "Guyger" (which I take to be homophonous with "geiger" as in "counter"), and most would probably benefit from help with "Botham Jean". Local broadcasters here in Seattle, and at least some national ones, are pronouncing "Jean" as "John", but it is not clear to me whether this is how those who knew him said it (I would have given it a bit more French, myself). IPA, classic M-W, and/or an OGG file would be better than the nothing now provided. -- Haruo ( talk) 17:52, 1 October 2019 (UTC)
At least two editors are trying to remove or minimize - through language like "It has been reported" - the skin color of Jean and Guyger. The racial aspects of the murder have been reported in a wide range of reliable sources including those in the article. Removing or minimizing this aspect of the case is a clear violation of our requirements to write articles from a neutral point of view based on the cited reporting. Please do not remove or minimize this part of the article. The Mirror Cracked ( talk) 21:43, 1 October 2019 (UTC)
"has been reported". Bus stop ( talk) 22:10, 1 October 2019 (UTC)
Are you suggesting this Wikipedia article should say "The New York Times has emphasized the racial aspect of this case"? Certainly, you are not suggesting that the New York Times dictates Wikipedia articles. Mfwitten ( talk) 22:40, 1 October 2019 (UTC)
A super rigorous review of news sources (I googled "Botham Jean" and went to the news tab) gives the following from the first two pages (focusing most on national sources):
racist texts" and 4th ¶ says "
Guyger is white and Jean was black, and his death stoked protests, led to Guyger's firing and renewed conversations about police use of force and racial bias."
When a white ex-Dallas police officer recounted her thinking as she fired the two shots that killed an innocent black man in his own living room last year, she told a jury it was fear, not racism, that drove her to pull the trigger."
Amber Guyger killed an unarmed black man, Botham Jean, in his own apartment on a different floor from hers. She faces up to 99 years in prison."
Former Dallas police officer Amber Guyger insisted on the witness stand that her shooting of an unarmed black man in his apartment was "not about hate" but about her fear that he would attack her."
Prosecutors maintained that Guyger, who is white, committed murder when she overlooked signs that the apartment she entered wasn't her own — the wrong floor, the smell of marijuana coming from the apartment, a bright red doormat — and shot Jean, a 26-year-old black accountant who was sitting in his living room eating ice cream when Guyger killed him last September."
Guyger, who is white, was returning home from a 13 ½ hour shift and was off duty but still in uniform when she shot Jean, a black St. Lucia native who worked as an accountant. Guyger parked on what she believed to be the third floor of her apartment building's garage, but she had actually parked on the building's fourth floor, where Jean lived directly above her. Jean, 26, was sitting on his couch and eating ice cream when Guyger found the door ajar and opened fire."
A Texas jury ruled Tuesday that a white police officer who shot and killed an innocent black man in his own home is guilty of murder. The conviction came even after a widely criticized last-minute decision from a judge, which allowed jurors to take into account a controversial law that could have cleared her of wrongdoing."
Note that paragraphs in news coverage are usually 1 or two sentences each. If the title of the article mentioned race, I included it in the link.
My take is that the race of the murderer and her victim are clearly relevant and represented as important introductory information by most RS. I think we should do the same in our lead per WP:DUE. EvergreenFir (talk) 16:41, 2 October 2019 (UTC)
There has been 4 days of WP:SILENCE, so I will WP:BOLDly add this information to the lead. EvergreenFir (talk) 00:05, 7 October 2019 (UTC)
Like, such as:
{{ r | DN_1 | p=1 | q="After the verdict, Ben Crump, an attorney for the Jean family, said 26-year-old Jean was a "near perfect" person. "This jury had to make history in America today, because Botham was the best that we had to offer," Crump said. "Twenty-six year old, college-educated black man, certified public accountant, working for one of the big three accounting firms in the world, PricewaterhouseCoopers." "But it shouldn't take all of that for unarmed black and brown people in America to get justice," Crump said." }}
My concern is:
I'd suggest:
{{cite news}}
template's quote
parameters,{{reflist|group=quotes}}
section, or<ref>
tag.― cobaltcigs 18:13, 3 October 2019 (UTC)
{{r}}
function. (Without a page number specified, the quote does not display at all, hence the 1).{{cite news}}
format, I'm ok with that. I like your suggestion b).I don't recall seeing actual encyclopedic content being delegated to tool tips;?
{{r}}
template,[
[1]] it includes the quote parameter. And "tool tips" seems to mean anything displayed on mouse-over...that includes the normal reference info displayed on mouseover of a superscript reference, like a news article's title, author, date, etc. On mouse-over of a {{cite news}}
reference with a quote, the quote is included there. With the {{r}}
function, the quote displays separately, over the page number; (only when page number is included).---
Avatar317
(talk) 20:26, 3 October 2019 (UTC)Pinging Bus stop. The citations are working correctly, just appears wrong because of the tooltip thing. EvergreenFir (talk) 17:40, 4 October 2019 (UTC)
quote=
parameter in the {{
cite web}}.
EvergreenFir
(talk) 19:23, 4 October 2019 (UTC)This article says Guyger was at the apartment above her apartment, not below. https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/02/us/amber-guyger-trial-sentencing/index.html But as an off-topic question, I'm curious to know how she couldn't have noticed that the apartment should have looked different than hers (different furniture) and such, was she not drunk at the time? Guess not. 170.76.231.162 ( talk) 20:15, 3 October 2019 (UTC).
Deserves its own entry. I'll start it shortly if no one else does, but maybe someone can get it going. Bangabandhu ( talk) 14:50, 7 October 2019 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
On October 8, Dallas Police announced that they had three suspects arrested in Brown's killing and stated that they were involved in a drug deal that turned deadly. [1]
Please include that the suspects were from Alexandria Louisiana and that Brown was believed to have been dealing drugs to them. Two of the suspects have also not yet been arrested.
On October 8, Dallas Police announced that they identified three suspects arrested in Brown's killing and stated that they were involved in a drug deal that turned deadly. [1] Police said that Brown was attempting to deal drugs to the three suspects, identified as Jacquerious Mitchell, 20, Michael Mitchell, 32, and Thaddeous Green, 22, and that they traveled from Alexandria, Louisiana to make the purchase. [2] Jacquerious Mitchell has been arrested while the other two suspects remain at large. [1] [2] 137.70.164.141 ( talk) 23:41, 8 October 2019 (UTC)
References |
---|
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
References
|
I've always been curious who paid Amber's legal fees. She grew up in poverty so it wasn't her family. She didn't pay over a million on a former cop salary. She was lawyered, had someone do a makeover, was coached how to speak etc. Where'd all the money for that come from? 72.110.18.135 ( talk) 05:01, 20 February 2023 (UTC)