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Anyone who can read and understand Tamil can add content from these sources. ---- Kailash29792 ( talk) 11:30, 15 December 2013 (UTC)
This is the English translation to the review in Tamil by Ananda Vikatan
Copyrighted text has been removed Soham 17:53, 8 February 2014 (UTC)
Rating:
Regards. -- Sriram speak up 05:30, 3 January 2014 (UTC)
This is the English translation of the Tamil review by Thina Thanthi
Copyrighted text has been removed Soham 17:53, 8 February 2014 (UTC)
Regards. -- Sriram speak up 05:59, 3 January 2014 (UTC)
This is the English translation of the contents from here
Copyrighted text has been removed Soham 17:53, 8 February 2014 (UTC)
Regards. -- Sriram speak up 13:18, 12 January 2014 (UTC)
Kailash29792 The first time you name Dhananjayan, can you tell a word about who he is? -- Sriram speak up 11:39, 10 February 2014 (UTC)
Kailash29792How about, "A deeply hurt Rajinikanth vowed to play the role with as much zest and put his heart and soul into the character Kali"? And this, "Chettiar wasn't convinced with the fact that there is no romantic lead for the hero and a villain plays the main role as he felt it was "ridiculous" and "preposterous"; he voiced ...." ? -- Sriram speak up 16:21, 11 February 2014 (UTC)
Shall we say, 'Heated arguments ensued ..'? -- Sriram speak up 17:20, 11 February 2014 (UTC)
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Reviewing |
Reviewer: Soham ( talk · contribs) 17:26, 6 February 2014 (UTC)
I will be reviewing the Article per WP:WIAGA. Soham 17:26, 6 February 2014 (UTC)
Short, concise. Does not exceed WP:FILMPLOT limitation of 700 words and is only 360 words.
I see one inconsistency though in the plot, in the cast section its mentioned than Kali's wife is Manga but there is no mention of him getting married to her, do they simply have a romantic relationship or are they married? Soham 11:46, 8 February 2014 (UTC)
Thats it for the day. I'll review the sections, Reflective reviews and Legacy tomorrow. Soham 17:46, 8 February 2014 (UTC)
Soham, Sriram Vikram and Vensa, is the "themes" section all right? I feel some content can be deleted, but I cannot decide which, as I have rarely written such sections before. Kailash29792 ( talk) 15:49, 10 February 2014 (UTC)
Oh where's is a BO section? Soham 11:32, 9 February 2014 (UTC)
Koimoi, OneIndia, BollywoodMantra are not the most reliable sources you get but there is no need to list who placed the film in what position. A one line mention like, "It was mentioned in other top 10 list of Rajnikant films, like in those of ...." Something like this without emphasising too much, remember the section is already too long, therefore provide it in a summary style. Remove the fluff. Soham 11:51, 9 February 2014 (UTC)
GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria
I won't be able to edit for a few days cause I will be in school, I'll complete in Sat/Sun. Hope you'll wait and would'n't mind. Soham 17:29, 9 February 2014 (UTC)
@ Kailash29792: and @ Soham: Great job guys. Very good quality. I've added some gloss to it and improved the structure of the reception a bit. A worthy GA, very well written. Keep up the good work.♦ Dr. Blofeld 20:39, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
The lede spells the author's name as Umachandran, yet this source spells it as two words Uma Chandran. [4]. Amazon and Flipkart also spell it as two words. [5] [6]. Anyone know Tamil who can decipher the spelling on the book cover? TimTempleton (talk) (cont) 05:40, 5 February 2019 (UTC)
In my remarks here made at 10:56 on 5 September 2019, I made an elementary error. The " direct object" in my edit is really an indirect object. I make a similar error a little later. Please correct. Many apologies. A simpler way of describing this is: you can say "Chettiar offered to produce the movie" (here "to produce ..." is a verb complement with an infinitive (to)." or "Chettiar offered Mahendran the job of the director." (Here "the job of the director," a noun phrase, is the direct object, and Mahendran is the indirect object.) But you cannot say: "Chettiar offered Mahendra to direct the movie." (PS I've made this example up from memory. The actual edit of the link above might be a little different.) Fowler&fowler «Talk» 16:00, 7 September 2019 (UTC)
In that paragraph and the four that follow, you have enough material for the Development section. You could even add earlier material about his career as a film critic, and frustration with the conventional Tamil movie. I'm not sure why you are taking this complicated route of using a Tamil language primary source, and then running circles around potential objections. Fowler&fowler «Talk» 19:01, 7 September 2019 (UTC)"By the time this film was completed, Mahendran began to experience symptoms of burnout. He was equally assailed by guilt as he was well aware that he was promoting the kind of cinema that was contrary to his spirit and against which he wrote many a scathing review. He decided to stop writing, but his fascination for the potential of the medium nonetheless remained. So when producers put pressure on him to come up with more stories he told them point-blank that he had exhausted all his ideas and all that he could do was perhaps adapt a literary work. That was how Uma Chandran’s novel Mullum Malarum (1966) landed on his lap. Abandoning any faithful rendition of the novel, he followed his own instincts and transformed it into a screenplay. Quickly realising, though, that the kind of treatment he had arrived at would have no takers in the industry, he quietly filed it away. He was certain that producers would reject it as it had no scope for routine melodrama, excessive dialogues, overacting, duets and a typical climax, all of which he was always highly critical about since he made that speech in front of MGR during his college days."
Frontline is a highly respected Indian magazine. If you think it has made an error, please write a letter to the magazine's editor and request the author to recant it, or find another reliable secondary source that points out that error. Fowler&fowler «Talk» 12:27, 9 September 2019 (UTC)" Primary sources are often difficult to use appropriately. Although they can be both reliable and useful in certain situations, they must be used with caution in order to avoid original research. Although specific facts may be taken from primary sources, secondary sources that present the same material are preferred. Large blocks of material based purely on primary sources should be avoided. All interpretive claims, analyses, or synthetic claims about primary sources must be referenced to a secondary source, rather than original analysis of the primary-source material by Wikipedia editors.
Okay Fowler&fowler, I want to solve all issues before I attempt another FAC. I rewrote the development section yesterday, and I had help. Is it better and more coherent than before? I know it is accurate, because someone fluent in both English and Tamil sat near me to proof read. Now where all do you want me to remove Mahendran's book as a source from the article? If a statement is available only in that book and nowhere else, you cannot call that OR worth removing. Maybe I can write, "According to Mahendran...". The Frontline article is not a carbon copy of the book in English, and has maybe one or two factual errors. I believed primary sources should only not be used for highly disputed info like box office collections. The book does not lack complete third-party coverage, here's proof. -- Kailash29792 (talk) 11:44, 9 September 2019 (UTC)
is not third-party mention in the sense of a discussion of the contents of the book, its publication history, or its critical worth, in a reliable secondary source. Fowler&fowler «Talk» 12:13, 9 September 2019 (UTC)"In a sense, one can find the book Cinemavum Naanum by J Mahendran as well as Hitchcock/Truffaut by François Truffaut in the same shelf. Designed by Pa Ranjith’s wife Anitha, the interiors of Koogai are densely packed and lit with vibrant colours. Anitha believes that Koogai was started with the intention to act as a social gathering."
I suggest also that you not attempt to bait me with comments such as "The biggest favour you could do is to not take part in the next FAC." I am not here to do you any favors, only to ensure that substandard articles, written in poor prose, citing primary sources, do not receive the FA imprimatur of Wikipedia. I am not the only one who has noticed your non-standard use of the verb "offered," the subject of my post above. An earlier reviewer did the same in April. Instead of listening to him, you blew him off with an incorrect explanation and continued to make the error two months later, when I had to point it out twice. Finally, you replaced the sentence with an entirely new one, with other errors:
The best thing you can do is to not be in such a hurry, and not keep prodding me to do this or that, for example, to request me in one instance to "finish editing" some section, and in the very next instance to editing it yourself and asking me to respond in the edit summary. Please understand that I'm busy. I have limited time for Wikipedia and that time I have to apportion carefully. I may only be able to attend to issues here every two or three days. Best regards, Fowler&fowler «Talk» 17:19, 11 September 2019 (UTC)
A book, The Name is Rajinikanth, authored by an opthalmologist, Dr Gayathri Sreekanth of Chennai, is being cited for the quote: "A good product needs no publicity, whereas a bad product cannot be pushed in the market however much you publicise it".{{Sfn|Sreekanth|2008|pp=324–325}}
Her book is available on snippet view in Google Books. I am able to see that she has:
"... product cannot be pushed to market, however much you publicize it." He thought he was doomed, but that was not to be. With the word of mouth publicity and rave reviews, the film picked up by the end of third week, and went out to be a phenomenal success. "Finally Tamil cinema is coming of age. Movies are getting more visual." The critics raved. Chettiar, of course, apologized to the director, offering him a blank cheque. Mahendran gently refused the cheque, and thanked Chettiar for letting him make a movie with Rajinikanth. Rajinikanth was catapulted to the next level with Mullum Malarum. (p 321)"
Unfortunately, I cannot read the content before "product cannot." See here for an image of the few lines beginning "product cannot be pushed to market". Also, the page number 321 not 324–25.
The book has been reviewed with little mercy in the respected magazine Outlook. That review is available in full view: Menon, Sadanand (31 March 2008), "Can Rajini Rescue This Book? Capturing the phenomenon that's the Tamil superstar requires narrative and analytical skill. Here it's myopia. Review of The Name is Rajnikanth by Gayathri Sreekanth, Om Books, 375 pages, Rs 495", Outlook, Outlook Publishing, pp. 65–
A second portion I can read from the book on Google books, on page 348, bears out the remarks about malapropism mentioned in the above review:
Mullum Malarum (Thorns Can Also Blossom) Rajinikanth's all time favourite despite having worked in 150 films. It made a superstar out of him showing his versatility as an actor. He was promoted an actor par finesses. Till then he had only been accepted as a sidekick and a villain, Rajini played a village rustic, uncouth and tough but soft at heart, immensely fond of his sister, Shoba. The climax has the sister ditching him and going with her lover against his wishes. She takes a few steps, with her back turned, leaving the audiences heart beat in their mouths. She stops for a minute, turns back and runs into Rajinikanth's arms. The movie gave a new dimension to brother and sister relations on screen. Rajinikanth received his first best actor award conferred by the Tamilnadu government.
I too was initially sceptical about it, but I believe it is an RS for the same reason that Rajinikanth: The Definitive Biography is, despite having many factual errors. Here are some pages for cross-checking. If you feel the book is worth-removing, tell me. But it will take some time as Rome wasn't built in a day. Kailash29792 (talk) 04:47, 12 September 2019 (UTC)
I'm not sure why you're not using, G Dhananjayan (2014). PRIDE OF TAMIL CINEMA: 1931 TO 2013: Tamil Films that have earned National and International Recognition. Blue Ocean Publishers. pp. 252–254. GGKEY:L1DLZDAEJ47. It has a full three pages on MM. It has quite a bit about the development. It mentions that the winch-operated cable railway was the one in Glenmorgan, Ooty, which now seems to have been abandoned. In other words, the movie wasn't just incidentally also shot in Ooty, it was deliberately shot in Glenmorgan, Ooty, for the employment of the winch-operated trolley, which was presumably still functional then. This fact, without my interpretation, should be mentioned in the article. Fowler&fowler «Talk» 13:09, 12 September 2019 (UTC)
I can't tell whether Dhananjayan borrowed from Wikipedia in general, but he does not appear to have copied verbatim from the version of the article that existed in 2015. That's all that matters. Dhananjayan may have liberally borrowed from Mahendran, but all secondary sources do; also, as he at the very least had to translate into English, he did not copy Mahendran verbatim. For examples of verbatim copying (i.e. that constitutes copyvios) of my India famine articles see this. Nothing like that is happening in Dhananjayan. Dhananjayan's mention of Wikipedia means that he read the Wikipedia page, and may have been influenced by it, may have included some content, or meta-content, from it somewhere, but not in verbatim form. It doesn't outright invalidate the use of the book in a Wikipedia article. I think you are needlessly getting into complications of using primary sources, of translating them, then paraphrasing them. I believe there is plenty in the English language sources here and there, including Dhananjayan, to cite for the same thing. Fowler&fowler «Talk» 14:52, 12 September 2019 (UTC)
@ Kailash29792: has asked me to look over the article. Below are my comments about the "Plot" section:
Apologies to @ Fowler&fowler: if I am interrupting any ongoing discussions. Aoba47 ( talk) 20:25, 15 September 2019 (UTC)
PPS I showed it to my wife. She said, "Written like a toddler." I: "What do you mean?" She: "Wrirrwn word for word." So you have carte blanche from me to improve it. Fowler&fowler «Talk»
Thanks. Will take a look-see. Fowler&fowler «Talk» 15:53, 16 September 2019 (UTC)
Fair enough. How about "becomes the setting for a song and dance extravaganza, one of the film's five musical interludes?" Fowler&fowler «Talk» 18:49, 16 September 2019 (UTC)
@ Kailash29792: Hmm. I'm not sure I agree. We mention nothing about the songs, their meaning, their import in the movie, though they occupy a good chunk of the time, some 15 or 20 minutes of the 2 hours. We make a big deal in the lead about the director disavowing the old tradition of singing duets, etc. etc. but are strangely silent about how the songs of the movie are different, even that there are songs until we get to the music section. The music section has a barebones, table-of-content-like list of everyone, their brother, their third cousin sixth removed, involved in the music, but nothing about the content of the songs. As you know I had written a version of the plot, made from my notes. I've added it to a subpage of the talk page for the record: Talk:Mullum Malarum/Fowler&fowler's notes made on watching the film. You will see that it mentions the songs. The songs carry emotional content, a portent of themes developed later. The lack of a mention of the songs in the plot, or of their contents in the music section, makes the article disjointed, and claims about the director's pathbreaking work incoherent. Fowler&fowler «Talk» 12:45, 17 September 2019 (UTC)
Both lead actresses in the film, Fatafat Jayalakshmi, who plays Manga, and Shoba, who plays Valli, killed themselves within two years of making the movie. Jayalakshmi was 22 at the time of her death, and Shoba just 17. Shoba had been married two years earlier, at age 15, to the film's cinematographer, Balu Mahendra. These anomalies could not have gone unnoticed in the media. Should these deaths not be discussed in the article, to the extent they have some connection with the movie?
::*Thank you. It looks good. I've made some minor changes.
Fowler&fowler
«Talk» 16:33, 16 September 2019 (UTC) Wrong place, but supervened by the discussion above.
The article failed it's fourth and most recent FAC, because of one detractor ( Fowler&fowler). While there will never be another FAC attempt at this article by me, I will nevertheless be satisfied if it at least maintains GA status. Because factual accuracy and coherence matter more. -- Kailash29792 (talk) 11:45, 28 August 2021 (UTC)
That's it. Beside that, the article is absolutely fine. — Nicholas Michael Halim ( talk) 11:16, 25 October 2021 (UTC)
Wait, I just saw that refs 36 and 45 are books. Move both to the "Bibliography" section and use {{Sfn||p=}} to cite them. — Nicholas Michael Halim ( talk) 11:18, 25 October 2021 (UTC)
More
— Nicholas Michael Halim ( talk) 11:50, 25 October 2021 (UTC)
Rajinikanth as Kali Sarath Babu as Kumaran Jayalaxmi as Manga Shoba as Valli Vennira Aadai Moorthy as Murugesan Samikannu as Mayandi Subha as Angayi
![]() | Mullum Malarum is a former featured article candidate. Please view the links under Article milestones below to see why the nomination failed. For older candidates, please check the archive. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
![]() | Mullum Malarum has been listed as one of the Media and drama good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Mullum Malarum article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This article is rated GA-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | The following references may be useful when improving this article in the future: |
Anyone who can read and understand Tamil can add content from these sources. ---- Kailash29792 ( talk) 11:30, 15 December 2013 (UTC)
This is the English translation to the review in Tamil by Ananda Vikatan
Copyrighted text has been removed Soham 17:53, 8 February 2014 (UTC)
Rating:
Regards. -- Sriram speak up 05:30, 3 January 2014 (UTC)
This is the English translation of the Tamil review by Thina Thanthi
Copyrighted text has been removed Soham 17:53, 8 February 2014 (UTC)
Regards. -- Sriram speak up 05:59, 3 January 2014 (UTC)
This is the English translation of the contents from here
Copyrighted text has been removed Soham 17:53, 8 February 2014 (UTC)
Regards. -- Sriram speak up 13:18, 12 January 2014 (UTC)
Kailash29792 The first time you name Dhananjayan, can you tell a word about who he is? -- Sriram speak up 11:39, 10 February 2014 (UTC)
Kailash29792How about, "A deeply hurt Rajinikanth vowed to play the role with as much zest and put his heart and soul into the character Kali"? And this, "Chettiar wasn't convinced with the fact that there is no romantic lead for the hero and a villain plays the main role as he felt it was "ridiculous" and "preposterous"; he voiced ...." ? -- Sriram speak up 16:21, 11 February 2014 (UTC)
Shall we say, 'Heated arguments ensued ..'? -- Sriram speak up 17:20, 11 February 2014 (UTC)
GA toolbox |
---|
Reviewing |
Reviewer: Soham ( talk · contribs) 17:26, 6 February 2014 (UTC)
I will be reviewing the Article per WP:WIAGA. Soham 17:26, 6 February 2014 (UTC)
Short, concise. Does not exceed WP:FILMPLOT limitation of 700 words and is only 360 words.
I see one inconsistency though in the plot, in the cast section its mentioned than Kali's wife is Manga but there is no mention of him getting married to her, do they simply have a romantic relationship or are they married? Soham 11:46, 8 February 2014 (UTC)
Thats it for the day. I'll review the sections, Reflective reviews and Legacy tomorrow. Soham 17:46, 8 February 2014 (UTC)
Soham, Sriram Vikram and Vensa, is the "themes" section all right? I feel some content can be deleted, but I cannot decide which, as I have rarely written such sections before. Kailash29792 ( talk) 15:49, 10 February 2014 (UTC)
Oh where's is a BO section? Soham 11:32, 9 February 2014 (UTC)
Koimoi, OneIndia, BollywoodMantra are not the most reliable sources you get but there is no need to list who placed the film in what position. A one line mention like, "It was mentioned in other top 10 list of Rajnikant films, like in those of ...." Something like this without emphasising too much, remember the section is already too long, therefore provide it in a summary style. Remove the fluff. Soham 11:51, 9 February 2014 (UTC)
GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria
I won't be able to edit for a few days cause I will be in school, I'll complete in Sat/Sun. Hope you'll wait and would'n't mind. Soham 17:29, 9 February 2014 (UTC)
@ Kailash29792: and @ Soham: Great job guys. Very good quality. I've added some gloss to it and improved the structure of the reception a bit. A worthy GA, very well written. Keep up the good work.♦ Dr. Blofeld 20:39, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
The lede spells the author's name as Umachandran, yet this source spells it as two words Uma Chandran. [4]. Amazon and Flipkart also spell it as two words. [5] [6]. Anyone know Tamil who can decipher the spelling on the book cover? TimTempleton (talk) (cont) 05:40, 5 February 2019 (UTC)
In my remarks here made at 10:56 on 5 September 2019, I made an elementary error. The " direct object" in my edit is really an indirect object. I make a similar error a little later. Please correct. Many apologies. A simpler way of describing this is: you can say "Chettiar offered to produce the movie" (here "to produce ..." is a verb complement with an infinitive (to)." or "Chettiar offered Mahendran the job of the director." (Here "the job of the director," a noun phrase, is the direct object, and Mahendran is the indirect object.) But you cannot say: "Chettiar offered Mahendra to direct the movie." (PS I've made this example up from memory. The actual edit of the link above might be a little different.) Fowler&fowler «Talk» 16:00, 7 September 2019 (UTC)
In that paragraph and the four that follow, you have enough material for the Development section. You could even add earlier material about his career as a film critic, and frustration with the conventional Tamil movie. I'm not sure why you are taking this complicated route of using a Tamil language primary source, and then running circles around potential objections. Fowler&fowler «Talk» 19:01, 7 September 2019 (UTC)"By the time this film was completed, Mahendran began to experience symptoms of burnout. He was equally assailed by guilt as he was well aware that he was promoting the kind of cinema that was contrary to his spirit and against which he wrote many a scathing review. He decided to stop writing, but his fascination for the potential of the medium nonetheless remained. So when producers put pressure on him to come up with more stories he told them point-blank that he had exhausted all his ideas and all that he could do was perhaps adapt a literary work. That was how Uma Chandran’s novel Mullum Malarum (1966) landed on his lap. Abandoning any faithful rendition of the novel, he followed his own instincts and transformed it into a screenplay. Quickly realising, though, that the kind of treatment he had arrived at would have no takers in the industry, he quietly filed it away. He was certain that producers would reject it as it had no scope for routine melodrama, excessive dialogues, overacting, duets and a typical climax, all of which he was always highly critical about since he made that speech in front of MGR during his college days."
Frontline is a highly respected Indian magazine. If you think it has made an error, please write a letter to the magazine's editor and request the author to recant it, or find another reliable secondary source that points out that error. Fowler&fowler «Talk» 12:27, 9 September 2019 (UTC)" Primary sources are often difficult to use appropriately. Although they can be both reliable and useful in certain situations, they must be used with caution in order to avoid original research. Although specific facts may be taken from primary sources, secondary sources that present the same material are preferred. Large blocks of material based purely on primary sources should be avoided. All interpretive claims, analyses, or synthetic claims about primary sources must be referenced to a secondary source, rather than original analysis of the primary-source material by Wikipedia editors.
Okay Fowler&fowler, I want to solve all issues before I attempt another FAC. I rewrote the development section yesterday, and I had help. Is it better and more coherent than before? I know it is accurate, because someone fluent in both English and Tamil sat near me to proof read. Now where all do you want me to remove Mahendran's book as a source from the article? If a statement is available only in that book and nowhere else, you cannot call that OR worth removing. Maybe I can write, "According to Mahendran...". The Frontline article is not a carbon copy of the book in English, and has maybe one or two factual errors. I believed primary sources should only not be used for highly disputed info like box office collections. The book does not lack complete third-party coverage, here's proof. -- Kailash29792 (talk) 11:44, 9 September 2019 (UTC)
is not third-party mention in the sense of a discussion of the contents of the book, its publication history, or its critical worth, in a reliable secondary source. Fowler&fowler «Talk» 12:13, 9 September 2019 (UTC)"In a sense, one can find the book Cinemavum Naanum by J Mahendran as well as Hitchcock/Truffaut by François Truffaut in the same shelf. Designed by Pa Ranjith’s wife Anitha, the interiors of Koogai are densely packed and lit with vibrant colours. Anitha believes that Koogai was started with the intention to act as a social gathering."
I suggest also that you not attempt to bait me with comments such as "The biggest favour you could do is to not take part in the next FAC." I am not here to do you any favors, only to ensure that substandard articles, written in poor prose, citing primary sources, do not receive the FA imprimatur of Wikipedia. I am not the only one who has noticed your non-standard use of the verb "offered," the subject of my post above. An earlier reviewer did the same in April. Instead of listening to him, you blew him off with an incorrect explanation and continued to make the error two months later, when I had to point it out twice. Finally, you replaced the sentence with an entirely new one, with other errors:
The best thing you can do is to not be in such a hurry, and not keep prodding me to do this or that, for example, to request me in one instance to "finish editing" some section, and in the very next instance to editing it yourself and asking me to respond in the edit summary. Please understand that I'm busy. I have limited time for Wikipedia and that time I have to apportion carefully. I may only be able to attend to issues here every two or three days. Best regards, Fowler&fowler «Talk» 17:19, 11 September 2019 (UTC)
A book, The Name is Rajinikanth, authored by an opthalmologist, Dr Gayathri Sreekanth of Chennai, is being cited for the quote: "A good product needs no publicity, whereas a bad product cannot be pushed in the market however much you publicise it".{{Sfn|Sreekanth|2008|pp=324–325}}
Her book is available on snippet view in Google Books. I am able to see that she has:
"... product cannot be pushed to market, however much you publicize it." He thought he was doomed, but that was not to be. With the word of mouth publicity and rave reviews, the film picked up by the end of third week, and went out to be a phenomenal success. "Finally Tamil cinema is coming of age. Movies are getting more visual." The critics raved. Chettiar, of course, apologized to the director, offering him a blank cheque. Mahendran gently refused the cheque, and thanked Chettiar for letting him make a movie with Rajinikanth. Rajinikanth was catapulted to the next level with Mullum Malarum. (p 321)"
Unfortunately, I cannot read the content before "product cannot." See here for an image of the few lines beginning "product cannot be pushed to market". Also, the page number 321 not 324–25.
The book has been reviewed with little mercy in the respected magazine Outlook. That review is available in full view: Menon, Sadanand (31 March 2008), "Can Rajini Rescue This Book? Capturing the phenomenon that's the Tamil superstar requires narrative and analytical skill. Here it's myopia. Review of The Name is Rajnikanth by Gayathri Sreekanth, Om Books, 375 pages, Rs 495", Outlook, Outlook Publishing, pp. 65–
A second portion I can read from the book on Google books, on page 348, bears out the remarks about malapropism mentioned in the above review:
Mullum Malarum (Thorns Can Also Blossom) Rajinikanth's all time favourite despite having worked in 150 films. It made a superstar out of him showing his versatility as an actor. He was promoted an actor par finesses. Till then he had only been accepted as a sidekick and a villain, Rajini played a village rustic, uncouth and tough but soft at heart, immensely fond of his sister, Shoba. The climax has the sister ditching him and going with her lover against his wishes. She takes a few steps, with her back turned, leaving the audiences heart beat in their mouths. She stops for a minute, turns back and runs into Rajinikanth's arms. The movie gave a new dimension to brother and sister relations on screen. Rajinikanth received his first best actor award conferred by the Tamilnadu government.
I too was initially sceptical about it, but I believe it is an RS for the same reason that Rajinikanth: The Definitive Biography is, despite having many factual errors. Here are some pages for cross-checking. If you feel the book is worth-removing, tell me. But it will take some time as Rome wasn't built in a day. Kailash29792 (talk) 04:47, 12 September 2019 (UTC)
I'm not sure why you're not using, G Dhananjayan (2014). PRIDE OF TAMIL CINEMA: 1931 TO 2013: Tamil Films that have earned National and International Recognition. Blue Ocean Publishers. pp. 252–254. GGKEY:L1DLZDAEJ47. It has a full three pages on MM. It has quite a bit about the development. It mentions that the winch-operated cable railway was the one in Glenmorgan, Ooty, which now seems to have been abandoned. In other words, the movie wasn't just incidentally also shot in Ooty, it was deliberately shot in Glenmorgan, Ooty, for the employment of the winch-operated trolley, which was presumably still functional then. This fact, without my interpretation, should be mentioned in the article. Fowler&fowler «Talk» 13:09, 12 September 2019 (UTC)
I can't tell whether Dhananjayan borrowed from Wikipedia in general, but he does not appear to have copied verbatim from the version of the article that existed in 2015. That's all that matters. Dhananjayan may have liberally borrowed from Mahendran, but all secondary sources do; also, as he at the very least had to translate into English, he did not copy Mahendran verbatim. For examples of verbatim copying (i.e. that constitutes copyvios) of my India famine articles see this. Nothing like that is happening in Dhananjayan. Dhananjayan's mention of Wikipedia means that he read the Wikipedia page, and may have been influenced by it, may have included some content, or meta-content, from it somewhere, but not in verbatim form. It doesn't outright invalidate the use of the book in a Wikipedia article. I think you are needlessly getting into complications of using primary sources, of translating them, then paraphrasing them. I believe there is plenty in the English language sources here and there, including Dhananjayan, to cite for the same thing. Fowler&fowler «Talk» 14:52, 12 September 2019 (UTC)
@ Kailash29792: has asked me to look over the article. Below are my comments about the "Plot" section:
Apologies to @ Fowler&fowler: if I am interrupting any ongoing discussions. Aoba47 ( talk) 20:25, 15 September 2019 (UTC)
PPS I showed it to my wife. She said, "Written like a toddler." I: "What do you mean?" She: "Wrirrwn word for word." So you have carte blanche from me to improve it. Fowler&fowler «Talk»
Thanks. Will take a look-see. Fowler&fowler «Talk» 15:53, 16 September 2019 (UTC)
Fair enough. How about "becomes the setting for a song and dance extravaganza, one of the film's five musical interludes?" Fowler&fowler «Talk» 18:49, 16 September 2019 (UTC)
@ Kailash29792: Hmm. I'm not sure I agree. We mention nothing about the songs, their meaning, their import in the movie, though they occupy a good chunk of the time, some 15 or 20 minutes of the 2 hours. We make a big deal in the lead about the director disavowing the old tradition of singing duets, etc. etc. but are strangely silent about how the songs of the movie are different, even that there are songs until we get to the music section. The music section has a barebones, table-of-content-like list of everyone, their brother, their third cousin sixth removed, involved in the music, but nothing about the content of the songs. As you know I had written a version of the plot, made from my notes. I've added it to a subpage of the talk page for the record: Talk:Mullum Malarum/Fowler&fowler's notes made on watching the film. You will see that it mentions the songs. The songs carry emotional content, a portent of themes developed later. The lack of a mention of the songs in the plot, or of their contents in the music section, makes the article disjointed, and claims about the director's pathbreaking work incoherent. Fowler&fowler «Talk» 12:45, 17 September 2019 (UTC)
Both lead actresses in the film, Fatafat Jayalakshmi, who plays Manga, and Shoba, who plays Valli, killed themselves within two years of making the movie. Jayalakshmi was 22 at the time of her death, and Shoba just 17. Shoba had been married two years earlier, at age 15, to the film's cinematographer, Balu Mahendra. These anomalies could not have gone unnoticed in the media. Should these deaths not be discussed in the article, to the extent they have some connection with the movie?
::*Thank you. It looks good. I've made some minor changes.
Fowler&fowler
«Talk» 16:33, 16 September 2019 (UTC) Wrong place, but supervened by the discussion above.
The article failed it's fourth and most recent FAC, because of one detractor ( Fowler&fowler). While there will never be another FAC attempt at this article by me, I will nevertheless be satisfied if it at least maintains GA status. Because factual accuracy and coherence matter more. -- Kailash29792 (talk) 11:45, 28 August 2021 (UTC)
That's it. Beside that, the article is absolutely fine. — Nicholas Michael Halim ( talk) 11:16, 25 October 2021 (UTC)
Wait, I just saw that refs 36 and 45 are books. Move both to the "Bibliography" section and use {{Sfn||p=}} to cite them. — Nicholas Michael Halim ( talk) 11:18, 25 October 2021 (UTC)
More
— Nicholas Michael Halim ( talk) 11:50, 25 October 2021 (UTC)
Rajinikanth as Kali Sarath Babu as Kumaran Jayalaxmi as Manga Shoba as Valli Vennira Aadai Moorthy as Murugesan Samikannu as Mayandi Subha as Angayi