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Was the garbage pile itself illegal (then burned), or was the burning of said garbage pile illegal? ← George talk 21:34, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
I have noticed that people keep adding the amount of forest burnt in acres and removing other measurements. Please do not do this, as acres are neither a metric or SI unit, nor is it used locally in Israel. I was under the impression that according to the relevant guidelines, the units that should be used as the local (in this case, the metric dunam) and the SI (in this case, square [kilo]meters). — Ynhockey ( Talk) 07:28, 3 December 2010 (UTC)
Someone changed the first sentence to refer to the "2010 Mount Carmel forest fire". Should we move the article to match that name, and have 2010 Israel forest fire redirect? I'm also curious if we should call it a "forest" fire. It sounds like it's spread to more than just forests, no? ← George talk 11:17, 3 December 2010 (UTC)
Support: 2010 Mount Carmel fires or 2010 Israel fires-- Metallurgist ( talk) 02:00, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
Support: 2010 Mount Carmel forest fire. -- 89.138.83.78 ( talk) 09:41, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
Support: 2010 Mount Carmel forest fire. I was cautious at the beginning, since AFAIK, there are many locations called Mount Carmel, especially in North America, still I guess we're safe with Mount Carmel pointing to the location of the forest fire. AgadaUrbanit ( talk) 10:24, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
Support: 2010 Mount Carmel forest fire. Flags-Chaser ( talk) 12:50, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
Oppose: This is known as the "Israel forest fire" in international media and should be reflected in the article. If there are multiple disastrous forest fires in Israel in 2010, then the article name should be changed. The current name is too specific and obscures the general location of events. Plot Spoiler ( talk) 19:13, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
Yeah I think the tile of the heading pretty much speaks for itself. It's good that Obama's reaction is there but is it really necessary to put the reaction of the Palestinian Jihad group? "On the other hand, official identified with the Palestinian Islamic Jihad said: "There is no need to tell you how delighted we are that more than 40 cadets who tortured prisoners were killed in this fire. We never met with your compassion when Israel attacked us. Let the fire consume the spider state"
The above quote by the Palestinian Islamic Jihad group isn't really intelligent or relevant to the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 144.131.90.209 ( talk) 12:05, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
I've added some qoutes via my anonymous adress, which is 217.120.210.96. I REALLY reckon them quotes to be part of the article, for they give a more than a glipmse of how the other 'important' parts of the Middle East (Turkey and the Palesinian Authorities) care about this all, and how Israel reacts on that. Whether it would do the relationship between Israel and them both Middle-Eastern states (Turkey and 'Palestine') good or whether it would harm the relationships, time has to tell. All I know is that both Turkey and the Palestine Authorities has send their help, and that Netanyahu has been 'peaceful' about these conversations. At the same time, I think it is usefull to álso show the responce of the Palestinian Islamic Jihad. We are Wikipedia, and we COULD/WOULD/SHOULD deliver a story from AS MUCH POINTS OF VIEW as possible! Many of us might not agree with it, but it, nevertheless, is a point of view! And in this case it is relevant, for they responded to THIS (= the article) current event. Again, not everyone might agree with it, but it ís a statement (that represents a certain point of view involving this case). Robster1983 ( talk) 22:20, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
It appears at this stage, the Chief Rabbinate reaction is not supported by any source. I'm removing it till relevant reliable sources could be found. AgadaUrbanit ( talk) 22:34, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
I just want to point out that Ynetnews is the only outlet reporting this. I guess they qualify for WP:RS (maybe) but it all seems pretty thin to me.
http://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=s&hl=en&q=%22who%20tortured%20prisoners%20were%20killed%20in%20this%20fire%22&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbo=u&tbs=nws:1&source=og&sa=N&tab=wn —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.2.0.134 ( talk) 22:43, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
Should we also make a section in the 'reactions' part about the internal (=Israeli- and Palestinian) reactions (since them reactions are very diverse in both in Israel (groups hailing Netanyahu and groups blaiming Netanyahu) AND Palestine (groups sending help, and groups wishing Israel ill))? Robster1983 ( talk) 23:08, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
There is currently a map, which can be foubd at File:Carmel Map 2010.png. The map is on the commons, is released into the common domain, and was uploaded by MA1988. The only down side of this map is that it's labeled in Hebrew. Should we include it? עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 09:42, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
Do we have any free image of the supertanker? It just made few sorties over the fire. Free images of the ill-76s would be also desired here as they made a change. -- Gilisa ( talk) 10:38, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
Currently, this section contains too much Israel-bashing; it needs to be more balanced. Also, Iran is not an Arab country; perhaps Iranian reactions to the fire should go in their own section instead. Stonemason89 ( talk) 21:54, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
Can we keep this section specific? "Arab media" is a general term, and certainly I didn't see any "rejoicing" in Al-Jazeera, arguably one of the most popular Arab media networks. If blanket accusations are to made, they should be attributed to the source, since they're clearly opinion and not fact. VR talk 05:58, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
I've changed two things:
Also, maybe we should remove the Jerusalem Post article. Its assessment of "Arab media" is actually based upon "comments on the blaze from readers in several leading Arab media outlets and websites." Stupid, hateful comments are routinely made by anons on notable websites. They shouldn't be in wikipedia. VR talk 06:11, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
I'm fine with most of the changes, but I changed a couple of things back. First, the section is properly titled "Arab reactions", not "anti-Israel reactions", because all the reactions in it are Arab and not all are anti-Israel. Help from Arab countries is a separate matter and is covered in a separate section. Indeed, some of the negative Arab reactions were criticisms of the help given by Arab countries. Second, it may not be clear to everyone that Islamic Jihad refers to a formal political organization with declared members; membership is not typically disputed or controversial, so using scare quotes and "allegedly" just looks weird. Jalapenos do exist ( talk) 12:03, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
The article gives undue weight to arson claims. I attempted to fix this, but have been completely reverted. While others have since fixed some of the issues, other issues still persist:
Rami R 18:05, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
Great article.
Since the fire is over now, you should try to finish the article too.
1. Put in a map of the entire area, and the area destroyed by fire.
2. List up more accurately which villages that was burnt down and which villages that were only damaged.
3. Did the fire spread outside the Haifa district? Say into the Northern district?
4. Exactly how many km2 was burnt up? (Current siting is over 40 km2).
--
84.209.100.54 (
talk)
19:33, 6 December 2010 (UTC)Stein S., Oslo, Norway
Why is this article under the 1RR arbitration? It's about a forest fire, and isn't related to the conflict in any way. Stonemason89 ( talk) 05:33, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 05:57, 1 February 2016 (UTC)
Despite Netanyahu saying he'd declare a national day of mourning, quoted by the Jerusalem Post [1] as cited in the reference and also by Ynet [2] according to Channel 12's N12 it didn't happen: אחר אסון השרפה בכרמל בדצמבר 2010 קרא נתניהו לציון יום אבל לאומי, אך הדבר לא יצא אל הפועל. [3]. Mcljlm ( talk) 14:42, 1 May 2021 (UTC)
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Warning: active arbitration remedies The contentious topics procedure applies to this article. This article is related to the Arab–Israeli conflict, which is a contentious topic. Furthermore, the following rules apply when editing this article:
Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page.
|
This article links to one or more target anchors that no longer exist.
Please help fix the broken anchors. You can remove this template after fixing the problems. |
Reporting errors |
Relevant sources:
Was the garbage pile itself illegal (then burned), or was the burning of said garbage pile illegal? ← George talk 21:34, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
I have noticed that people keep adding the amount of forest burnt in acres and removing other measurements. Please do not do this, as acres are neither a metric or SI unit, nor is it used locally in Israel. I was under the impression that according to the relevant guidelines, the units that should be used as the local (in this case, the metric dunam) and the SI (in this case, square [kilo]meters). — Ynhockey ( Talk) 07:28, 3 December 2010 (UTC)
Someone changed the first sentence to refer to the "2010 Mount Carmel forest fire". Should we move the article to match that name, and have 2010 Israel forest fire redirect? I'm also curious if we should call it a "forest" fire. It sounds like it's spread to more than just forests, no? ← George talk 11:17, 3 December 2010 (UTC)
Support: 2010 Mount Carmel fires or 2010 Israel fires-- Metallurgist ( talk) 02:00, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
Support: 2010 Mount Carmel forest fire. -- 89.138.83.78 ( talk) 09:41, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
Support: 2010 Mount Carmel forest fire. I was cautious at the beginning, since AFAIK, there are many locations called Mount Carmel, especially in North America, still I guess we're safe with Mount Carmel pointing to the location of the forest fire. AgadaUrbanit ( talk) 10:24, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
Support: 2010 Mount Carmel forest fire. Flags-Chaser ( talk) 12:50, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
Oppose: This is known as the "Israel forest fire" in international media and should be reflected in the article. If there are multiple disastrous forest fires in Israel in 2010, then the article name should be changed. The current name is too specific and obscures the general location of events. Plot Spoiler ( talk) 19:13, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
Yeah I think the tile of the heading pretty much speaks for itself. It's good that Obama's reaction is there but is it really necessary to put the reaction of the Palestinian Jihad group? "On the other hand, official identified with the Palestinian Islamic Jihad said: "There is no need to tell you how delighted we are that more than 40 cadets who tortured prisoners were killed in this fire. We never met with your compassion when Israel attacked us. Let the fire consume the spider state"
The above quote by the Palestinian Islamic Jihad group isn't really intelligent or relevant to the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 144.131.90.209 ( talk) 12:05, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
I've added some qoutes via my anonymous adress, which is 217.120.210.96. I REALLY reckon them quotes to be part of the article, for they give a more than a glipmse of how the other 'important' parts of the Middle East (Turkey and the Palesinian Authorities) care about this all, and how Israel reacts on that. Whether it would do the relationship between Israel and them both Middle-Eastern states (Turkey and 'Palestine') good or whether it would harm the relationships, time has to tell. All I know is that both Turkey and the Palestine Authorities has send their help, and that Netanyahu has been 'peaceful' about these conversations. At the same time, I think it is usefull to álso show the responce of the Palestinian Islamic Jihad. We are Wikipedia, and we COULD/WOULD/SHOULD deliver a story from AS MUCH POINTS OF VIEW as possible! Many of us might not agree with it, but it, nevertheless, is a point of view! And in this case it is relevant, for they responded to THIS (= the article) current event. Again, not everyone might agree with it, but it ís a statement (that represents a certain point of view involving this case). Robster1983 ( talk) 22:20, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
It appears at this stage, the Chief Rabbinate reaction is not supported by any source. I'm removing it till relevant reliable sources could be found. AgadaUrbanit ( talk) 22:34, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
I just want to point out that Ynetnews is the only outlet reporting this. I guess they qualify for WP:RS (maybe) but it all seems pretty thin to me.
http://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=s&hl=en&q=%22who%20tortured%20prisoners%20were%20killed%20in%20this%20fire%22&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbo=u&tbs=nws:1&source=og&sa=N&tab=wn —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.2.0.134 ( talk) 22:43, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
Should we also make a section in the 'reactions' part about the internal (=Israeli- and Palestinian) reactions (since them reactions are very diverse in both in Israel (groups hailing Netanyahu and groups blaiming Netanyahu) AND Palestine (groups sending help, and groups wishing Israel ill))? Robster1983 ( talk) 23:08, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
There is currently a map, which can be foubd at File:Carmel Map 2010.png. The map is on the commons, is released into the common domain, and was uploaded by MA1988. The only down side of this map is that it's labeled in Hebrew. Should we include it? עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 09:42, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
Do we have any free image of the supertanker? It just made few sorties over the fire. Free images of the ill-76s would be also desired here as they made a change. -- Gilisa ( talk) 10:38, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
Currently, this section contains too much Israel-bashing; it needs to be more balanced. Also, Iran is not an Arab country; perhaps Iranian reactions to the fire should go in their own section instead. Stonemason89 ( talk) 21:54, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
Can we keep this section specific? "Arab media" is a general term, and certainly I didn't see any "rejoicing" in Al-Jazeera, arguably one of the most popular Arab media networks. If blanket accusations are to made, they should be attributed to the source, since they're clearly opinion and not fact. VR talk 05:58, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
I've changed two things:
Also, maybe we should remove the Jerusalem Post article. Its assessment of "Arab media" is actually based upon "comments on the blaze from readers in several leading Arab media outlets and websites." Stupid, hateful comments are routinely made by anons on notable websites. They shouldn't be in wikipedia. VR talk 06:11, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
I'm fine with most of the changes, but I changed a couple of things back. First, the section is properly titled "Arab reactions", not "anti-Israel reactions", because all the reactions in it are Arab and not all are anti-Israel. Help from Arab countries is a separate matter and is covered in a separate section. Indeed, some of the negative Arab reactions were criticisms of the help given by Arab countries. Second, it may not be clear to everyone that Islamic Jihad refers to a formal political organization with declared members; membership is not typically disputed or controversial, so using scare quotes and "allegedly" just looks weird. Jalapenos do exist ( talk) 12:03, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
The article gives undue weight to arson claims. I attempted to fix this, but have been completely reverted. While others have since fixed some of the issues, other issues still persist:
Rami R 18:05, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
Great article.
Since the fire is over now, you should try to finish the article too.
1. Put in a map of the entire area, and the area destroyed by fire.
2. List up more accurately which villages that was burnt down and which villages that were only damaged.
3. Did the fire spread outside the Haifa district? Say into the Northern district?
4. Exactly how many km2 was burnt up? (Current siting is over 40 km2).
--
84.209.100.54 (
talk)
19:33, 6 December 2010 (UTC)Stein S., Oslo, Norway
Why is this article under the 1RR arbitration? It's about a forest fire, and isn't related to the conflict in any way. Stonemason89 ( talk) 05:33, 8 December 2010 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to one external link on
Mount Carmel forest fire (2010). Please take a moment to review
my edit. If necessary, add {{
cbignore}}
after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{
nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}}
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
This message was posted before February 2018.
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(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 05:57, 1 February 2016 (UTC)
Despite Netanyahu saying he'd declare a national day of mourning, quoted by the Jerusalem Post [1] as cited in the reference and also by Ynet [2] according to Channel 12's N12 it didn't happen: אחר אסון השרפה בכרמל בדצמבר 2010 קרא נתניהו לציון יום אבל לאומי, אך הדבר לא יצא אל הפועל. [3]. Mcljlm ( talk) 14:42, 1 May 2021 (UTC)
References