![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 |
Wikipedia is not a dictionary. But until someone else deletes or (somehow) encyclopedifies this article, it might as well be accurate. 2002 user:Montrealais
Removed references to 'motherfucker' and 'MILF'. These have no place here.
absolutely... who writes these things? 209.187.72.3 17:12, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
motherhood to mother. To make consistent with the title of the father article. 64.193.70.223 21:49, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
I also think the comment about the status of mothers in Romania is out of place. Moreover, such a comment would need to be backed up by a reference in my opinion. Better, I would suggest to remove the comment altogether.
Yes. 149.225.214.24 19:17, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
There are, as with fathers, different types of mother, are ther not, therefore, we should include them? feedback what you think. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Umpajug ( talk • contribs) 14:08, 10 March 2007 (UTC).
This was deleted by user 86.146.203.197 on Valentine's Day. Why it was deleted is unclear, but usage of the above is widespread if not total throughout the West Midlands (specifically the Black Country and Birmingham). I have put this information back in, for now. If anyone has an objection, please let me know. Worley-d 22:29, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
-- In addition, the amount of vandalism on this page is alarming. I assume it is due to the low standard of the article that it is not protected against such anonymous edits? It seems like this page has had ten edits since my last constructive edit, all adding and then correcting said vandalism. Worley-d 19:22, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
Hi I live in the West Midlands and I can categorically deny that the use of mom/mommy is widespread - I've not heard or seen it spelt once. Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.176.97.11 ( talk) 19:44, 15 March 2008 (UTC) The terms mum/mummy are used as in the rest of the UK.
I suggested that the references to these are removed and that this page is watched—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Bigandy ( talk • contribs) 11:47, 2 May 2007 (UTC).
It seems to me that this is a dreadfully small page, compared to the importance of mothers in sociology, literature, art, pop culture, and... well, pretty much everything. Any ideas as to why?
Most definitions of motherhood tend to mark the beginning of motherhood at the time of the birth of one's child. While there are biological reasons to discuss the pregnant woman as a mother, it seems to me that discussion of gestation etc. shoud be in a subsection entitled "Biological mother", not in the opening paragraph, which should conform more closely to traditional definitions. -- Pleasantville 13:19, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
OK. Let's see if I can get this discussion back on track. As far as I know, every natural human language has a word for mother and a concept underlying that. Medical obstetrics, on the other hand, is very recent, and its concepts figure into concepts of motherhood in only a limited way, even in cultures where this brand of modern medicine is practiced. Thus, it is really jarring to start in with gestational chronology, when for most of human history such discussion has had at best a very limited impact on the concept of "mother."
In promoting the (very sound) idea that pregnant women should seek prenatal care, to some extent medicine has pushed aside the concept of the "mother-to-be" in favor of a notion that parenting starts as soon as one knows one is pregnant, or even earlier -- taking prenatal vitamins during years when one might become pregnant. But though the word mother is sometimes used this way, that is not its primary usage, but rather a secondary one. -- Pleasantville 12:02, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
Relax and talk. That's what talk pages are for. I'm trying to understand your perspective and you aren't giving me much to work with. -- Pleasantville 14:54, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
I got out our family copy of Webster's New 20th Century Dictionary (2nd ed., 1979) and on p. 1173, there are a number of definitions of the word "mother," none of which square with defining from conception rather than birth. -- Pleasantville 18:23, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
1. a. The female parent of a human being; a woman in relation to a child or children to whom she has given birth; (also, in extended use) a woman who undertakes the responsibilities of a parent towards a child, esp. a stepmother. Used as a form of address to a woman by her (young or adult) children, and freq. also by her stepchildren or other children in her care; also (colloq. and regional) by a father to the mother of his children. Cf. MA n.3, MOM n., and MUM n.2 1a. As with other terms of relationship, my is (exc. occas. in poetic language) commonly omitted before mother as vocative. On the other hand, in the 3rd person the use of mother for my mother is colloquial and familiar; in the middle of the 19th cent. it was regarded as unfashionable or vulgar.
birth, foster-mother: see the first element. surrogate mother: see SURROGATE a. eOE Cleopatra Gloss. in W. G. Stryker Lat.-Old Eng. Gloss. in MS Cotton Cleopatra A.III (Ph.D. diss., Stanford Univ.) (1951) 314 Mater, anes cildes modor. Materfamilias, manigra cilda modur. lOE tr. Ralph d'Escures Sermo in Festis Sancte Marie Virginis in R. D.-N. Warner Early Eng. Homilies (1917) 135 {Th}eh manege o{edh}re habben mæge{edh}hades weall,..{th}ehhwe{edh}ere ne mugen heo gehealde ne mæge{edh}hade & modres beon, ne bearn geberen. ?c1200 Ormulum 168 He be{th} full off Hali{ygh} Gast {Ygh}et inn hiss moderr wambe. c1225 (?c1200) St. Katherine 929 Of his feader so{edh} godd, & of his moder so{edh} mon. a1325 (c1250) Gen. & Exod. 1434 Ysaac..wunede {edh}or in {edh}o{ygh}t and care For moderes dead. 1340 Ayenbite 67 {Th}is zenne is ine uele maneres ase..ine children aye hare uaderes and hare modren. c1390 CHAUCER Physician's Tale 93 Ye fadres and ye modres. a1425 (a1400) Prick of Conscience (Galba & Harl.) 447 He was consayved synfully With-in his awen moder body. c1440 (a1349) R. ROLLE Eng. Prose Treat. (1921) 11 Honoure thy fadyre and {th}i modyre. c1520 Of Newe Landes founde by Messengers Kynge of Portyngale Introd., in E. Arber 1st Three Eng. Bks. on Amer. (1885) 33/1 The[y] ete theym all rawe, both there one fader or moeder. 1526 Pylgrimage of Perfection (de Worde) f. 13, As infantes or tender babes newe borne of theyr mother. c1546 PRINCE EDWARD in H. Ellis Orig. Lett. Eng. Hist. (1824) 1st Ser. II. 131 Most honorable and entirely beloued mother. 1556 in J. G. Nichols Chron. Grey Friars (1852) 25 The qwenys moder dicessyd. 1598 SHAKESPEARE L.L.L. II. i. 256 Then was Venus like her mother, for her father is but grim. a1616 SHAKESPEARE Coriol. (1623) IV. i. 16 Nay Mother. a1616 SHAKESPEARE Coriol. (1623) IV. i. 27 My Mother, you wot well [etc.]. 1645 MILTON Arcades in Poems 52 Cybele, Mother of a hunderd gods. 1664 C. COTTON Scarronides I. 48 So smug she [sc. Venus] was, and so array'd He [sc. Aeneas] took his Mother for a Maid. 1702 C. MATHER Magnalia Christi VI. ii. 10/1 She liv'd to be a Mother of several Children. 1740 tr. C. de Fieux Fortunate Country Maid II. 177 No wonder my Mother was so indulging. a1779 D. GRAHAM Coll. Writings (1883) II. 233 How his midder sell'd mauky mutton. 1790 W. COWPER On Receipt Mother's Picture 21 My mother! when I learn'd that thou wast dead. c1830 T. H. BAYLY We Met! (song), Oh! thou hast been the cause of this anguish, My mother. 1857 DICKENS Little Dorrit I. ii. 13 Mother (my usual name for Mrs. Meagles) began to cry so, that it was necessary to take her out. ‘What's the matter, Mother?’ said I..‘you are frightening Pet.’.. ‘Yes, I know that, Father,’ says Mother. 1892 G. STEWART Shetland Fireside Tales (ed. 2) ix. 71 Auld Ibbie Bartley, dat wis trids o' kin to my wife's foster midder, an' her oey. 1898 J. D. BRAYSHAW Slum Silhouettes 156 ‘Sit yer down, mother,’ said Joe, taking his seat at the head of the table. 1920 R. MACAULAY Potterism III. ii. 127 ‘Never mind Arthur,’ she said. ‘I wouldn't let him get on my mind if I were you, mother.’ 1932 A. CHRISTIE Peril at End House v. 68 Mother and I..feel it's only neighbourly to do what we can. 1960 C. DAY LEWIS Buried Day i. 16, I have a large photograph of it, a photograph that after my mother's untimely death used to hang in dark corners or passages of the houses we occupied. 1970 P. CARLON Souvenir ii. 35 Don't you loathe the way old folks call each other Mother and Dad? 1990 New Republic 9 July 25/1 Right now only a few genetic tests are used by expectant mothers{em}for Down's syndrome, Tay-Sachs disease, etc.
The formatting (bold and italics) wouldn't come along, sorry about that. Feel free to delete those quotes, I merely thought there might be something of interest in the later ones. Bishonen | talk 23:47, 19 September 2007 (UTC).
(outdent) What about something similar to (not identical to)
Father#Categories? I think Mother is better than Father at this juncture, and certainly don't want to get into the ubiquitous and usually irrelevant "religious views" stuff (most religions have a view about everything, its just nonsense to include those in every article) but the Categories might be a starting point for Biological vs. Sociological etc.
KillerChihuahua
?!?
23:27, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
Note: we're using gestation, a Latin word, let's be consistent and use uterus. Womb has secondary meanings and a different sense (it's not necessarily neutral). •Jim62sch• 19:16, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
I'm not sure what this section is really for. I filled it out a bit, most of which has been cut, which is OK.
The problem is that almost no one is primarily famous for their mothering unless it goes spectacularly wrong (examples: Joan Crawford aka " Mommie Dearest"); & Andrea Yates; and such mothers are infamous, not famous. Not even Queen Victoria, who was a carrier for hemophilia which had wide-spread effects in the European aristocracy), really qualifies under a strict definition of a "famous mother."
Fame partly related to motherhood seems to come either through dynastic connection: Indira Gandhi, Nefertiti, Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy; or by writing about it: Jean Kerr for Please Don't Eat the Daisies, Shirley Jackson for Life Among the Savages.
Does anyone get famous purely for the fine quality of their mothering? Almost no one.
Mythological and legendary mother figures don't have this problem, since they are archetypes. But doing a Famous Mothers section about real women is really difficult, and the results are unimpressive. -- Pleasantville 23:07, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
I'll cut it. -- Pleasantville 23:16, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
Excellent! KillerChihuahua ?!? 23:27, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
Now that the article's been cleaned up a bit, the Mothers and parental leave section sticks out. Probably there should also be a section on mothers and chilcare, or some such. Also, there is almost nothing on non-human mothering, or the role mothers play in psychological theory. So clearly there is further organization to do. -- Pleasantville 00:08, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
As this has enveloped multiple articles, I propose we choose one location for the debate, post accodingly on the talk pages of all involved articles, and hash it out in one place. There has been a good bit of repetition, as well as edit warring on articles where there is little or no discussion on the talk pages. IMO we can work it out ourselves, but if not, we can move to mediation if desired. I suggest Talk:Pregnancy/Womb-Uterus debate. I am cross posting this on all involved articles. KillerChihuahua ?!? 11:07, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
The words Mama, Mom and Ma are used in all Dutch speaking countries around the world. Not just The Netherlands. I'm from the Flemish part of Belgium (Dutch-speaking), a neighboring country of The Netherlands, that's how I know. The words are also used in South Africa, and many of the former colonies of The Netherlands. Marjolijn 15:48, 15 November 2007 (CET)
Youre right! the part about synonyms is wrong "mum or mummy, is used in the UK, Netherlands, Australia.", ive never heard anyone saying "mum" in dutch! we say "mama". anyway im not too sure about editing the page, so maybe someone else will.
It would be nice if this can be changed by someone who is autoconfirmed or higher. Ma/Mam/Mammy(mammie) is used in all Dutch speaking countries, not Mum —Preceding unsigned comment added by Recadra ( talk • contribs) 18:35, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
Yes could someone please edit this? Mama / Ma / Mam / Mammie is used in Dutch. We do not use the english terms. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Annerosa ( talk • contribs) 16:30, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
Looking at this page again, I think there is a disconnect between the text and the illustrations. Clearly the text is almost completely about mother as the "female parent of a human being" whether biological or surrogate. There is virtually no text about non-humans, and none about ducks and goats. So why do we have pictures of ducks and goats? I see no discussion here about this, so am removing them. Tvoz | talk 06:40, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
I'm from Canada and have never encountered anyone here who spells the word with a "u" as in UK and Australia. "Mom" is taught in schools throughout Canada (including Eastern Canada, which the article states is a "u" hotspot). I edited this out, but if there is a minority of people (other than immigrants from U-spelling areas) who actually are taught to spell it this way, someone should add that. Also, since Canada uses "mom" just as much as the US, is saying that it is used "especially in the US" irrelevant? (also lol@ the post above mine) M.nelson ( talk) 16:39, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
I have corrected the fact that Ma, Mam and Mammy is used in the UK as well as in Ireland, as most people I know refer to their mothers as Mam or Mammy as well as Mum and Mummy. Basilbrushfan ( talk) 21:02, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
I've removed Image:Daisy Romwall from Morro Bay, United States.jpg from the article. It could be a picture of anyone (an aunt, a sister, a friend, a social worker) so it adds nothing to the article. It's a nice pic for a family photo album or a userpage, but according to the image use policy, "These images are considered self-promotion and the Wikipedia community has repeatedly reached consensus to delete such images." Kafziel Complaint Department 19:07, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
(unindent) As Baseball Bugs notes you are quoting a policy that you have been unable to show applies and which other editors have shown does not apply. There is no basis for assuming there is a connection between the uploader and the picture subject. I don't assume your change was made in "bad faith" or that you have a conflict of interest just that you misapplied a policy which initially resulted in a poorer article. Mistakes are made - it does not mean others should not point out those mistakes or correct them.
On the Migrant mother photo I've already said I like it - I expect I like it for many of the reasons it gained featured photo status. That said, color is not "pointless", in general color photos are better illustrations when realism is desired. I am merely saying that if we can find an otherwise equally good photo that is also in color it would be better. Being a featured photo is a good indication that the quality of an image is one of the best available but it does not automatically make it an ideal (or best) illustration for a particular article.
Also, slightly off topic but I hope this will help explain some of my reasoning and help push this discussion into more useful territory, in my characterization of the images on siblings I was meaning in the context of illustrating the article - not as an assessment of the illustrations as portraits. I do not see that the images in that article are particularly illuminating to the subject there, especially since the intricacies of 19th century portraiture (and the story of the princes in particular) is fairly irrelevant to the article. The first 3 images in that article are all 19th Century paintings of privileged Europeans and all boy/all girl couplings at that. I think that lack of variety and applicability to the article fails to illustrate such a broad subject well. -- SiobhanHansa 17:22, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 |
Wikipedia is not a dictionary. But until someone else deletes or (somehow) encyclopedifies this article, it might as well be accurate. 2002 user:Montrealais
Removed references to 'motherfucker' and 'MILF'. These have no place here.
absolutely... who writes these things? 209.187.72.3 17:12, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
motherhood to mother. To make consistent with the title of the father article. 64.193.70.223 21:49, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
I also think the comment about the status of mothers in Romania is out of place. Moreover, such a comment would need to be backed up by a reference in my opinion. Better, I would suggest to remove the comment altogether.
Yes. 149.225.214.24 19:17, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
There are, as with fathers, different types of mother, are ther not, therefore, we should include them? feedback what you think. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Umpajug ( talk • contribs) 14:08, 10 March 2007 (UTC).
This was deleted by user 86.146.203.197 on Valentine's Day. Why it was deleted is unclear, but usage of the above is widespread if not total throughout the West Midlands (specifically the Black Country and Birmingham). I have put this information back in, for now. If anyone has an objection, please let me know. Worley-d 22:29, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
-- In addition, the amount of vandalism on this page is alarming. I assume it is due to the low standard of the article that it is not protected against such anonymous edits? It seems like this page has had ten edits since my last constructive edit, all adding and then correcting said vandalism. Worley-d 19:22, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
Hi I live in the West Midlands and I can categorically deny that the use of mom/mommy is widespread - I've not heard or seen it spelt once. Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.176.97.11 ( talk) 19:44, 15 March 2008 (UTC) The terms mum/mummy are used as in the rest of the UK.
I suggested that the references to these are removed and that this page is watched—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Bigandy ( talk • contribs) 11:47, 2 May 2007 (UTC).
It seems to me that this is a dreadfully small page, compared to the importance of mothers in sociology, literature, art, pop culture, and... well, pretty much everything. Any ideas as to why?
Most definitions of motherhood tend to mark the beginning of motherhood at the time of the birth of one's child. While there are biological reasons to discuss the pregnant woman as a mother, it seems to me that discussion of gestation etc. shoud be in a subsection entitled "Biological mother", not in the opening paragraph, which should conform more closely to traditional definitions. -- Pleasantville 13:19, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
OK. Let's see if I can get this discussion back on track. As far as I know, every natural human language has a word for mother and a concept underlying that. Medical obstetrics, on the other hand, is very recent, and its concepts figure into concepts of motherhood in only a limited way, even in cultures where this brand of modern medicine is practiced. Thus, it is really jarring to start in with gestational chronology, when for most of human history such discussion has had at best a very limited impact on the concept of "mother."
In promoting the (very sound) idea that pregnant women should seek prenatal care, to some extent medicine has pushed aside the concept of the "mother-to-be" in favor of a notion that parenting starts as soon as one knows one is pregnant, or even earlier -- taking prenatal vitamins during years when one might become pregnant. But though the word mother is sometimes used this way, that is not its primary usage, but rather a secondary one. -- Pleasantville 12:02, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
Relax and talk. That's what talk pages are for. I'm trying to understand your perspective and you aren't giving me much to work with. -- Pleasantville 14:54, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
I got out our family copy of Webster's New 20th Century Dictionary (2nd ed., 1979) and on p. 1173, there are a number of definitions of the word "mother," none of which square with defining from conception rather than birth. -- Pleasantville 18:23, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
1. a. The female parent of a human being; a woman in relation to a child or children to whom she has given birth; (also, in extended use) a woman who undertakes the responsibilities of a parent towards a child, esp. a stepmother. Used as a form of address to a woman by her (young or adult) children, and freq. also by her stepchildren or other children in her care; also (colloq. and regional) by a father to the mother of his children. Cf. MA n.3, MOM n., and MUM n.2 1a. As with other terms of relationship, my is (exc. occas. in poetic language) commonly omitted before mother as vocative. On the other hand, in the 3rd person the use of mother for my mother is colloquial and familiar; in the middle of the 19th cent. it was regarded as unfashionable or vulgar.
birth, foster-mother: see the first element. surrogate mother: see SURROGATE a. eOE Cleopatra Gloss. in W. G. Stryker Lat.-Old Eng. Gloss. in MS Cotton Cleopatra A.III (Ph.D. diss., Stanford Univ.) (1951) 314 Mater, anes cildes modor. Materfamilias, manigra cilda modur. lOE tr. Ralph d'Escures Sermo in Festis Sancte Marie Virginis in R. D.-N. Warner Early Eng. Homilies (1917) 135 {Th}eh manege o{edh}re habben mæge{edh}hades weall,..{th}ehhwe{edh}ere ne mugen heo gehealde ne mæge{edh}hade & modres beon, ne bearn geberen. ?c1200 Ormulum 168 He be{th} full off Hali{ygh} Gast {Ygh}et inn hiss moderr wambe. c1225 (?c1200) St. Katherine 929 Of his feader so{edh} godd, & of his moder so{edh} mon. a1325 (c1250) Gen. & Exod. 1434 Ysaac..wunede {edh}or in {edh}o{ygh}t and care For moderes dead. 1340 Ayenbite 67 {Th}is zenne is ine uele maneres ase..ine children aye hare uaderes and hare modren. c1390 CHAUCER Physician's Tale 93 Ye fadres and ye modres. a1425 (a1400) Prick of Conscience (Galba & Harl.) 447 He was consayved synfully With-in his awen moder body. c1440 (a1349) R. ROLLE Eng. Prose Treat. (1921) 11 Honoure thy fadyre and {th}i modyre. c1520 Of Newe Landes founde by Messengers Kynge of Portyngale Introd., in E. Arber 1st Three Eng. Bks. on Amer. (1885) 33/1 The[y] ete theym all rawe, both there one fader or moeder. 1526 Pylgrimage of Perfection (de Worde) f. 13, As infantes or tender babes newe borne of theyr mother. c1546 PRINCE EDWARD in H. Ellis Orig. Lett. Eng. Hist. (1824) 1st Ser. II. 131 Most honorable and entirely beloued mother. 1556 in J. G. Nichols Chron. Grey Friars (1852) 25 The qwenys moder dicessyd. 1598 SHAKESPEARE L.L.L. II. i. 256 Then was Venus like her mother, for her father is but grim. a1616 SHAKESPEARE Coriol. (1623) IV. i. 16 Nay Mother. a1616 SHAKESPEARE Coriol. (1623) IV. i. 27 My Mother, you wot well [etc.]. 1645 MILTON Arcades in Poems 52 Cybele, Mother of a hunderd gods. 1664 C. COTTON Scarronides I. 48 So smug she [sc. Venus] was, and so array'd He [sc. Aeneas] took his Mother for a Maid. 1702 C. MATHER Magnalia Christi VI. ii. 10/1 She liv'd to be a Mother of several Children. 1740 tr. C. de Fieux Fortunate Country Maid II. 177 No wonder my Mother was so indulging. a1779 D. GRAHAM Coll. Writings (1883) II. 233 How his midder sell'd mauky mutton. 1790 W. COWPER On Receipt Mother's Picture 21 My mother! when I learn'd that thou wast dead. c1830 T. H. BAYLY We Met! (song), Oh! thou hast been the cause of this anguish, My mother. 1857 DICKENS Little Dorrit I. ii. 13 Mother (my usual name for Mrs. Meagles) began to cry so, that it was necessary to take her out. ‘What's the matter, Mother?’ said I..‘you are frightening Pet.’.. ‘Yes, I know that, Father,’ says Mother. 1892 G. STEWART Shetland Fireside Tales (ed. 2) ix. 71 Auld Ibbie Bartley, dat wis trids o' kin to my wife's foster midder, an' her oey. 1898 J. D. BRAYSHAW Slum Silhouettes 156 ‘Sit yer down, mother,’ said Joe, taking his seat at the head of the table. 1920 R. MACAULAY Potterism III. ii. 127 ‘Never mind Arthur,’ she said. ‘I wouldn't let him get on my mind if I were you, mother.’ 1932 A. CHRISTIE Peril at End House v. 68 Mother and I..feel it's only neighbourly to do what we can. 1960 C. DAY LEWIS Buried Day i. 16, I have a large photograph of it, a photograph that after my mother's untimely death used to hang in dark corners or passages of the houses we occupied. 1970 P. CARLON Souvenir ii. 35 Don't you loathe the way old folks call each other Mother and Dad? 1990 New Republic 9 July 25/1 Right now only a few genetic tests are used by expectant mothers{em}for Down's syndrome, Tay-Sachs disease, etc.
The formatting (bold and italics) wouldn't come along, sorry about that. Feel free to delete those quotes, I merely thought there might be something of interest in the later ones. Bishonen | talk 23:47, 19 September 2007 (UTC).
(outdent) What about something similar to (not identical to)
Father#Categories? I think Mother is better than Father at this juncture, and certainly don't want to get into the ubiquitous and usually irrelevant "religious views" stuff (most religions have a view about everything, its just nonsense to include those in every article) but the Categories might be a starting point for Biological vs. Sociological etc.
KillerChihuahua
?!?
23:27, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
Note: we're using gestation, a Latin word, let's be consistent and use uterus. Womb has secondary meanings and a different sense (it's not necessarily neutral). •Jim62sch• 19:16, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
I'm not sure what this section is really for. I filled it out a bit, most of which has been cut, which is OK.
The problem is that almost no one is primarily famous for their mothering unless it goes spectacularly wrong (examples: Joan Crawford aka " Mommie Dearest"); & Andrea Yates; and such mothers are infamous, not famous. Not even Queen Victoria, who was a carrier for hemophilia which had wide-spread effects in the European aristocracy), really qualifies under a strict definition of a "famous mother."
Fame partly related to motherhood seems to come either through dynastic connection: Indira Gandhi, Nefertiti, Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy; or by writing about it: Jean Kerr for Please Don't Eat the Daisies, Shirley Jackson for Life Among the Savages.
Does anyone get famous purely for the fine quality of their mothering? Almost no one.
Mythological and legendary mother figures don't have this problem, since they are archetypes. But doing a Famous Mothers section about real women is really difficult, and the results are unimpressive. -- Pleasantville 23:07, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
I'll cut it. -- Pleasantville 23:16, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
Excellent! KillerChihuahua ?!? 23:27, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
Now that the article's been cleaned up a bit, the Mothers and parental leave section sticks out. Probably there should also be a section on mothers and chilcare, or some such. Also, there is almost nothing on non-human mothering, or the role mothers play in psychological theory. So clearly there is further organization to do. -- Pleasantville 00:08, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
As this has enveloped multiple articles, I propose we choose one location for the debate, post accodingly on the talk pages of all involved articles, and hash it out in one place. There has been a good bit of repetition, as well as edit warring on articles where there is little or no discussion on the talk pages. IMO we can work it out ourselves, but if not, we can move to mediation if desired. I suggest Talk:Pregnancy/Womb-Uterus debate. I am cross posting this on all involved articles. KillerChihuahua ?!? 11:07, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
The words Mama, Mom and Ma are used in all Dutch speaking countries around the world. Not just The Netherlands. I'm from the Flemish part of Belgium (Dutch-speaking), a neighboring country of The Netherlands, that's how I know. The words are also used in South Africa, and many of the former colonies of The Netherlands. Marjolijn 15:48, 15 November 2007 (CET)
Youre right! the part about synonyms is wrong "mum or mummy, is used in the UK, Netherlands, Australia.", ive never heard anyone saying "mum" in dutch! we say "mama". anyway im not too sure about editing the page, so maybe someone else will.
It would be nice if this can be changed by someone who is autoconfirmed or higher. Ma/Mam/Mammy(mammie) is used in all Dutch speaking countries, not Mum —Preceding unsigned comment added by Recadra ( talk • contribs) 18:35, 6 October 2008 (UTC)
Yes could someone please edit this? Mama / Ma / Mam / Mammie is used in Dutch. We do not use the english terms. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Annerosa ( talk • contribs) 16:30, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
Looking at this page again, I think there is a disconnect between the text and the illustrations. Clearly the text is almost completely about mother as the "female parent of a human being" whether biological or surrogate. There is virtually no text about non-humans, and none about ducks and goats. So why do we have pictures of ducks and goats? I see no discussion here about this, so am removing them. Tvoz | talk 06:40, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
I'm from Canada and have never encountered anyone here who spells the word with a "u" as in UK and Australia. "Mom" is taught in schools throughout Canada (including Eastern Canada, which the article states is a "u" hotspot). I edited this out, but if there is a minority of people (other than immigrants from U-spelling areas) who actually are taught to spell it this way, someone should add that. Also, since Canada uses "mom" just as much as the US, is saying that it is used "especially in the US" irrelevant? (also lol@ the post above mine) M.nelson ( talk) 16:39, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
I have corrected the fact that Ma, Mam and Mammy is used in the UK as well as in Ireland, as most people I know refer to their mothers as Mam or Mammy as well as Mum and Mummy. Basilbrushfan ( talk) 21:02, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
I've removed Image:Daisy Romwall from Morro Bay, United States.jpg from the article. It could be a picture of anyone (an aunt, a sister, a friend, a social worker) so it adds nothing to the article. It's a nice pic for a family photo album or a userpage, but according to the image use policy, "These images are considered self-promotion and the Wikipedia community has repeatedly reached consensus to delete such images." Kafziel Complaint Department 19:07, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
(unindent) As Baseball Bugs notes you are quoting a policy that you have been unable to show applies and which other editors have shown does not apply. There is no basis for assuming there is a connection between the uploader and the picture subject. I don't assume your change was made in "bad faith" or that you have a conflict of interest just that you misapplied a policy which initially resulted in a poorer article. Mistakes are made - it does not mean others should not point out those mistakes or correct them.
On the Migrant mother photo I've already said I like it - I expect I like it for many of the reasons it gained featured photo status. That said, color is not "pointless", in general color photos are better illustrations when realism is desired. I am merely saying that if we can find an otherwise equally good photo that is also in color it would be better. Being a featured photo is a good indication that the quality of an image is one of the best available but it does not automatically make it an ideal (or best) illustration for a particular article.
Also, slightly off topic but I hope this will help explain some of my reasoning and help push this discussion into more useful territory, in my characterization of the images on siblings I was meaning in the context of illustrating the article - not as an assessment of the illustrations as portraits. I do not see that the images in that article are particularly illuminating to the subject there, especially since the intricacies of 19th century portraiture (and the story of the princes in particular) is fairly irrelevant to the article. The first 3 images in that article are all 19th Century paintings of privileged Europeans and all boy/all girl couplings at that. I think that lack of variety and applicability to the article fails to illustrate such a broad subject well. -- SiobhanHansa 17:22, 8 October 2008 (UTC)