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please fix the St Jerome link it only contains Jerome and not St. Jerome 190.152.52.204 ( talk) 20:48, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
Do you have anything on the reason Michelangelo put horns on Moses?
I removed this from the main article:
“ | (Sorry but I have to interject)
Some believe that קרנ or (QRN) does represent the Hebrew word/image/concept of "horn" in this passage. With this interpretation, Moses' hornyness at this point of the story is simply a symbol of his connection with the divine. QRN, it should be noted, is a three radical root that means "horn" in every other occurrence in the Hebrew Bible. There are Hebrew words that mean "rays" and "rays of light". The author does not use these words in this passage, he chooses to use the word "horn". Horns, throughout the Bible are often used symbolically to denote power or divinity. Horns were a common symbol denoting power and divinity both when Exodus was written and when Jerome was translating. In other words, being "horned" to their eyes and ears would have seemed as normal as "enlightened" seems to us. Remember having real rays of light shooting from your face is as odd an image as sprouting real horns. Indeed the author was probably trying to communicate Moses' state as something greater than "enlightened". To him, Moses was Horny As far as this statue, we can't be sure what Michelangelo was thinking when he made this piece of art. Did the "horns" still glorify Moses in the eyes of his contemporaries? Some say yes and some say no. At this point of history, the Christian Communities were beginning to use "horns" as both a symbol of the Devil and a symbol of the "devil Jew". Unfortunately, this is the image that stuck which has caused some, like the original author of this piece, to invent "Jerome's mistake" to explain away the unsettling image of the Horned Moses. (Please write me if you have any questions or disagreements with my take, but I warn you - I wrote my Masters thesis on this subject, and while I have spared the Wikipedia audience the length of it, I won't hesitate to use it on ya!) jaycakes@hotmail.com —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.49.237.102 ( talk • contribs) 05:30, 11 August 2006 |
” |
Now, could anyone help this poor bloke?—♦♦ SʘʘTHING (Я) 11:54, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
First of all, considering G-D's commandment to multiply-and-fill-the-land, being 'horny' is not necessarily.."bad"; Second, regarding the ideocy of Satanism and the flocking of the down-right pentagram : it may be appropriate to repeat the the GRAND HONOR ov Sir A.E Waite, not word for word, but that he has ideated in the likes of me, that there is nothing out side of the Good LORD. And in this -light-, only ignorance may be considered foreign upon the land. And the phaenomen of horns are not indicative of any mis-or indeed-wrong doing, but more simply an issue of perspective. Don't OCD yourself over this, Moses has been, and shall remain in his spectre a fair servant of HE who made Time. -- 188.120.138.62 ( talk) 10:51, 8 August 2017 (UTC)+
The article appears to be protected and as such can't be changed by me, but Freud is listed as a "neurologist." Wouldn't psycho-analyst be the appropriate link here? I don't think that Freud has much in common with the current concept of a neurologist (as opposed to an analyst or even a psychiatrist), and whatever the historical case may have been, I think that the distinction in our times is clear enough that calling him a neurologist could be confusing. 88.75.57.18 ( talk) 11:37, 11 July 2011 (UTC)
"it depicts the Biblical figure Moses with horns on his head, based on a description in the Vulgate, the Latin translation of the Bible used at that time."
Occult theological religious nonsense.
"Horns" of "Moses" meant horns of Seth.
Yes if you understand "Egyptian" Mystery school... then you'll understand why Osiris is Seth (
http://www.reshafim.org.il/ad/egypt/manetho_hyksos.htm
Michelangelo knew his stuff, so do I - regards to the "horns" of "Moses"(this term derives indirectly from Egyptian term for "Mes" or "Mses")...
Again if you would have any logic then you would already know that I gave you the "reliable" source in my post. You don't need to be a brilliant "scholar" to figure out what I was talking about. In fact i revealed you the "secret"(served on a platter) and an antique source which is rather ignored than accepted. (Flavius quoting Manetho).
Here I will draw it down to you:
"According to the ancient mythology, Avaris was Typho's [10] city. But when these men had entered it, and found it suitable for a revolt, they chose a ruler from among the priests of Heliopolis, whose name was Osarsiph [9]. They swore an oath that they would obey him in all things. The first laws he gave them were that they should not worship the Egyptian gods, nor should they abstain from any of the sacred animals that the Egyptians held in the highest esteem, but could kill them, and that they should not ally themselves to any but those that were of their conspiracy. "
[10] Typho: Set [9] Moses: It was also reported that the priest, who ordained their polity and their laws, was by birth of Heliopolis, and his name Osarsiph, from Osyris, who was the god of Heliopolis; but that when he was gone over to these people, his name was changed, and he was called Moses."
Here should i add that OSARSIPH was only a GREEK (Flavius) transliteration of EGYPTIAN TITULAR NAME (just like "Moses"). The correct Egyptian (Coptic) term was ASARSEB or AusarGeb or AsaruDjeb. Where Asar = Osiris and Geb his "step father". This Geb became later Christian figure (term) played later important role in "Jesus's family" (JoSeph).
Horns of Moses means Horns of Seth (Typho). Osiris was a brother of Seth (and consequently part of his Duat). Moses (which was not his real name) was a Hykso priest of Osiris who wanted to collect all Egyptian deities under 1 "roof" (and forbade old Egyptian customs, tradition, gods) called "mono god" (Osiris). Egypt was at the time of Hyksos in chaos and several Egyptian pharaohs were at war against each other. Several were even joining Hyksos from Kush in a war against Egyptians themselves. Pharaoh (the heretic) Akhenaton revived Moses's reforms and proclaimed himself as an "image of god Aton". He also wrote the legendary Hymn to Aton, which later became part of Biblical "Psalm 104". Hymn to Adonai (Aton). Seth is Osiris's brother or Osiris's spirit itself. If we have monotheism (collection, fusion of different Egyptian gods into 1 deity) then is the question about Seth as Osiris not even important any more.
Flavius quoting Manetho is a SOURCE of information about the real Moses and is not even mentioned anywhere...Do you really think that the writers of Bible did not have any clues about Egyptian customs, religion (Osiris)? And consequently about "Moses"? (and his "Horns")?
This is really misplaced. I was certain Wikipedia would have a Horns of Moses article. The topic has nothing to do with Michelangelo, it's an iconographic tradition emerging in the high medieval period. So I would suggest a section split, creating a dedicated page on the topic. -- dab (𒁳) 20:34, 3 September 2016 (UTC)
One Giorgio Vasari is quoted as saying "Michelangelo finished the Moses in marble, a statue of five braccia, unequaled by any modern or ancient work." The word "braccia", while meaning "arm" in Italian, has no meaning in English, and when I tried to look for other uses of "braccia" in a sculptural context I found absolutely nothing. Can we please get a translation for this word? It's clear that the quote itself is translated but that word is untouched, and it clearly isn't referring to Moses' "arms" because he obviously only has two. So what exactly is meant by "five braccia"? Information that readers cannot possibly understand shouldn't be included in Wikipedia articles, and this qualifies since there is absolutely no information on the internet regarding the use of the word "braccia" in English in the context of sculpture art. 1.157.95.133 ( talk) 05:20, 13 June 2021 (UTC)
Singular "braccio"=arm; plural "braccia" = arms — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.62.178.67 ( talk) 11:31, 25 June 2021 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 01:49, 18 February 2023 (UTC)
To return to the suggestion above in 2016, this has the longest account on wp of the Horns of Moses, longer than at Moses etc. I suppose it is the most famous example, but it currently overbalances the article, and rather obscures that this was for a long time a normal feature of European iconography. I suggest it is split off to an article on the general feature, with a summary left behind here. I suspect the possible anti-semitic overtones are somewhat over-played. The literature on anti-semitism in medieval art tends to lack the wider context, in my experience. Johnbod ( talk) 13:24, 21 March 2024 (UTC)
This translation of Freud is surely still in copyright as the translator died in 1967. A new translation at this length could be done and be submitted as cc-by-sa but this quotation from an in-copyright translation would be unlikely to qualify as fair use / fair dealing; it should either be retranslated or cut back. Jim Killock (talk) 23:52, 21 March 2024 (UTC)
This
level-5 vital article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||
|
please fix the St Jerome link it only contains Jerome and not St. Jerome 190.152.52.204 ( talk) 20:48, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
Do you have anything on the reason Michelangelo put horns on Moses?
I removed this from the main article:
“ | (Sorry but I have to interject)
Some believe that קרנ or (QRN) does represent the Hebrew word/image/concept of "horn" in this passage. With this interpretation, Moses' hornyness at this point of the story is simply a symbol of his connection with the divine. QRN, it should be noted, is a three radical root that means "horn" in every other occurrence in the Hebrew Bible. There are Hebrew words that mean "rays" and "rays of light". The author does not use these words in this passage, he chooses to use the word "horn". Horns, throughout the Bible are often used symbolically to denote power or divinity. Horns were a common symbol denoting power and divinity both when Exodus was written and when Jerome was translating. In other words, being "horned" to their eyes and ears would have seemed as normal as "enlightened" seems to us. Remember having real rays of light shooting from your face is as odd an image as sprouting real horns. Indeed the author was probably trying to communicate Moses' state as something greater than "enlightened". To him, Moses was Horny As far as this statue, we can't be sure what Michelangelo was thinking when he made this piece of art. Did the "horns" still glorify Moses in the eyes of his contemporaries? Some say yes and some say no. At this point of history, the Christian Communities were beginning to use "horns" as both a symbol of the Devil and a symbol of the "devil Jew". Unfortunately, this is the image that stuck which has caused some, like the original author of this piece, to invent "Jerome's mistake" to explain away the unsettling image of the Horned Moses. (Please write me if you have any questions or disagreements with my take, but I warn you - I wrote my Masters thesis on this subject, and while I have spared the Wikipedia audience the length of it, I won't hesitate to use it on ya!) jaycakes@hotmail.com —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.49.237.102 ( talk • contribs) 05:30, 11 August 2006 |
” |
Now, could anyone help this poor bloke?—♦♦ SʘʘTHING (Я) 11:54, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
First of all, considering G-D's commandment to multiply-and-fill-the-land, being 'horny' is not necessarily.."bad"; Second, regarding the ideocy of Satanism and the flocking of the down-right pentagram : it may be appropriate to repeat the the GRAND HONOR ov Sir A.E Waite, not word for word, but that he has ideated in the likes of me, that there is nothing out side of the Good LORD. And in this -light-, only ignorance may be considered foreign upon the land. And the phaenomen of horns are not indicative of any mis-or indeed-wrong doing, but more simply an issue of perspective. Don't OCD yourself over this, Moses has been, and shall remain in his spectre a fair servant of HE who made Time. -- 188.120.138.62 ( talk) 10:51, 8 August 2017 (UTC)+
The article appears to be protected and as such can't be changed by me, but Freud is listed as a "neurologist." Wouldn't psycho-analyst be the appropriate link here? I don't think that Freud has much in common with the current concept of a neurologist (as opposed to an analyst or even a psychiatrist), and whatever the historical case may have been, I think that the distinction in our times is clear enough that calling him a neurologist could be confusing. 88.75.57.18 ( talk) 11:37, 11 July 2011 (UTC)
"it depicts the Biblical figure Moses with horns on his head, based on a description in the Vulgate, the Latin translation of the Bible used at that time."
Occult theological religious nonsense.
"Horns" of "Moses" meant horns of Seth.
Yes if you understand "Egyptian" Mystery school... then you'll understand why Osiris is Seth (
http://www.reshafim.org.il/ad/egypt/manetho_hyksos.htm
Michelangelo knew his stuff, so do I - regards to the "horns" of "Moses"(this term derives indirectly from Egyptian term for "Mes" or "Mses")...
Again if you would have any logic then you would already know that I gave you the "reliable" source in my post. You don't need to be a brilliant "scholar" to figure out what I was talking about. In fact i revealed you the "secret"(served on a platter) and an antique source which is rather ignored than accepted. (Flavius quoting Manetho).
Here I will draw it down to you:
"According to the ancient mythology, Avaris was Typho's [10] city. But when these men had entered it, and found it suitable for a revolt, they chose a ruler from among the priests of Heliopolis, whose name was Osarsiph [9]. They swore an oath that they would obey him in all things. The first laws he gave them were that they should not worship the Egyptian gods, nor should they abstain from any of the sacred animals that the Egyptians held in the highest esteem, but could kill them, and that they should not ally themselves to any but those that were of their conspiracy. "
[10] Typho: Set [9] Moses: It was also reported that the priest, who ordained their polity and their laws, was by birth of Heliopolis, and his name Osarsiph, from Osyris, who was the god of Heliopolis; but that when he was gone over to these people, his name was changed, and he was called Moses."
Here should i add that OSARSIPH was only a GREEK (Flavius) transliteration of EGYPTIAN TITULAR NAME (just like "Moses"). The correct Egyptian (Coptic) term was ASARSEB or AusarGeb or AsaruDjeb. Where Asar = Osiris and Geb his "step father". This Geb became later Christian figure (term) played later important role in "Jesus's family" (JoSeph).
Horns of Moses means Horns of Seth (Typho). Osiris was a brother of Seth (and consequently part of his Duat). Moses (which was not his real name) was a Hykso priest of Osiris who wanted to collect all Egyptian deities under 1 "roof" (and forbade old Egyptian customs, tradition, gods) called "mono god" (Osiris). Egypt was at the time of Hyksos in chaos and several Egyptian pharaohs were at war against each other. Several were even joining Hyksos from Kush in a war against Egyptians themselves. Pharaoh (the heretic) Akhenaton revived Moses's reforms and proclaimed himself as an "image of god Aton". He also wrote the legendary Hymn to Aton, which later became part of Biblical "Psalm 104". Hymn to Adonai (Aton). Seth is Osiris's brother or Osiris's spirit itself. If we have monotheism (collection, fusion of different Egyptian gods into 1 deity) then is the question about Seth as Osiris not even important any more.
Flavius quoting Manetho is a SOURCE of information about the real Moses and is not even mentioned anywhere...Do you really think that the writers of Bible did not have any clues about Egyptian customs, religion (Osiris)? And consequently about "Moses"? (and his "Horns")?
This is really misplaced. I was certain Wikipedia would have a Horns of Moses article. The topic has nothing to do with Michelangelo, it's an iconographic tradition emerging in the high medieval period. So I would suggest a section split, creating a dedicated page on the topic. -- dab (𒁳) 20:34, 3 September 2016 (UTC)
One Giorgio Vasari is quoted as saying "Michelangelo finished the Moses in marble, a statue of five braccia, unequaled by any modern or ancient work." The word "braccia", while meaning "arm" in Italian, has no meaning in English, and when I tried to look for other uses of "braccia" in a sculptural context I found absolutely nothing. Can we please get a translation for this word? It's clear that the quote itself is translated but that word is untouched, and it clearly isn't referring to Moses' "arms" because he obviously only has two. So what exactly is meant by "five braccia"? Information that readers cannot possibly understand shouldn't be included in Wikipedia articles, and this qualifies since there is absolutely no information on the internet regarding the use of the word "braccia" in English in the context of sculpture art. 1.157.95.133 ( talk) 05:20, 13 June 2021 (UTC)
Singular "braccio"=arm; plural "braccia" = arms — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.62.178.67 ( talk) 11:31, 25 June 2021 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 01:49, 18 February 2023 (UTC)
To return to the suggestion above in 2016, this has the longest account on wp of the Horns of Moses, longer than at Moses etc. I suppose it is the most famous example, but it currently overbalances the article, and rather obscures that this was for a long time a normal feature of European iconography. I suggest it is split off to an article on the general feature, with a summary left behind here. I suspect the possible anti-semitic overtones are somewhat over-played. The literature on anti-semitism in medieval art tends to lack the wider context, in my experience. Johnbod ( talk) 13:24, 21 March 2024 (UTC)
This translation of Freud is surely still in copyright as the translator died in 1967. A new translation at this length could be done and be submitted as cc-by-sa but this quotation from an in-copyright translation would be unlikely to qualify as fair use / fair dealing; it should either be retranslated or cut back. Jim Killock (talk) 23:52, 21 March 2024 (UTC)