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"A modified version that allows users to play commercial DVDs from all regions was listed at US$499." Isn't this contradictory to their stance on CPRM? They go after modchip makers for bypassing CPRM, yet profited from it. Couldn't something like this be raided in a RAID?
I would like to propose a general cleanup of this page. While I acknowledge the effort some have put into describing the various modchips for the systems, I find the level of detail, especially in the "History" section, counterproductive. Describing technical details of modchips (i.e. the "Qoob" for GameCube) is like describing technical details of car models in the article about cars. I'd rather see the article reformatted and slendered down to make a general statement. And I'd like to know what the consensus would be for such a reformatting. -- Freddy Talk 14:56, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
As recommended by WP:SUBPAGES, I have started the Temp page for this major revision draft. Freddy Talk 23:53, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
Major adjustments to the revision draft. Could I have everyones' opinion on that almost complete rewrite? Also, I've been working late, so my wording may not be the very best. Please correct it as you see fit. Freddy Talk 00:54, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
Moved outdated discussions and those who target already changed content to a newly created Archive page. -- Freddy Talk 15:09, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
This article could really use better formating. The currently it is not divided into sections, and long sections of straight prose are not good for reading. 65.41.54.53
This article could also benefit from mentions of alternatives to chipping, such as boot disks, Gamesharks, cartridge converters, and the like. It also does not mention the Saturn, which has fairly unique protection methods (regional lockout is separate from copy protection; regional lockout can be easily overcome via a cartridge such as ST Key or Action Replay, though to bypass copy protection requires a chip. Only one Saturn chip ever was able to bypass regional lockout.) A brief mention of consoles which do not feature protection would also be a good idea-many cartridge-based systems, the 3DO, and presumably others fall into this category.)
There is new modchip/programmer called infectus. Ut's full reprogrammable and can be every thing. Can be it added like a new generation? I have big doubts about the correct position where to put it. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.72.115.156 ( talk) 09:39, 10 April 2007 (UTC).
According to this Gamespot article [1] ESA IPs have been editing this article. They have edited it to say that mod chips are flatly illegal because of the DMCA. I don't believe this is fact, and I believe this is nothing more than their legal opinion on an issue that is still under question. There is no source proving it. If someone does not provide a source showing the DMCA makes mod chips completely illegal, with no grey area, as this article states, I will remove that statement. Edward4321 07:08, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
The Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) does not mention modchips in particular, but some may interpret the meaning of the law as stating that modchips are illegal because many are made specifically to circumvent the copy-protection features of their host systems. During the rise of Modchips for the original PlayStation, and prior to the DMCA, various import game dealers introduced a so-called anti-piracy or good Modchip, which was further developed to allow playback of import games, but not burned game discs.
I would like to object the verbose and abusive use of the term "piracy" in this article, for the reasons stated by the Free Software Foundation:
Publishers often refer to prohibited copying as “piracy.” In this way, they imply that illegal copying is ethically equivalent to attacking ships on the high seas, kidnapping and murdering the people on them. If you don't believe that illegal copying is just like kidnapping and murder, you might prefer not to use the word “piracy” to describe it. Neutral terms such as “prohibited copying” or “unauthorized copying” are available for use instead. Some of us might even prefer to use a positive term such as “sharing information with your neighbor.”
On top of that Piracy is not a legally accepted term (in the USA) to describe Copyright infringement. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 201.208.131.6 ( talk) 00:50, August 20, 2007 (UTC)
I have now replaced the article with an almost complete re-write. Above all, it cuts the excessive use of examples in the "history" section that has gone to the point where it describes installation routines. Also, the "legality" section, which has traditionally been a point of contention, has been generalised.
That being said, the information previously collected under the "history" section is not entirely useless. It just shouldn't clutter up the modchip article. It can very well be used in individual articles or sections with the respective video game systems (which in turn can be referenced under "see also" in the Modchip article). This revision contains the last pre-revision version of the article and can serve as copy/paste source.
Of course, I do not claim that the article is perfect in its present form. It can and should be improved. But I strongly feel that this revision was very necessary to turn the article towards encyclopedic value. Freddy Talk 17:45, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
Both the "vast memory card" and the "memory32" are not modchips but rather very special memory cards, comparable to passthrough devices. But, above anything, the last major revision of this article got rid of the excess example farm, mentioning single product names should not be necessary to explain the concept of a modchip. -- Freddy Talk 07:45, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
One of the main goals I wanted to achieve with the major revision was to rewrite the Legality section so it does not make specific statements about legality in various countries. I rather chose to include the different laws that apply. Especially since Australian law has been a controversial subject in the past.
To the contributor from 122.106.32.229: No, Australia does not allow modchips as you said, it does, however, not outlaw them per se either. The Australian Copyright Law (as referenced) does clearly outlaw the circumvention of copy protection measures, and it also clearly allows region code circumvention (as noted). Whether or not this makes a modchip illegal is up to the courts to decide (And, no, the 2005 High Court decision has been superseded by recent law changes and does not apply anymore). The article only states the two laws that have to be applied without making a final statement.
Finally, deleting the reference does not make the Australian Copyright Law and its implications on modchip legality go away, so please refrain from deleting it. Freddy Talk 17:40, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
The DMCA line was just incorrect and was purely illusive of the fact that the DMCA does not have anything to do with Physical Media, if anything this would have to do with duplication laws and not the DMCA. IF someone can find a rightful source of how this would be tied into the DMCA and thusly be illegal in the United States then please post it otherwise please stop posting it up there. 75.58.2.247 ( talk) 05:27, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
Also, I'm not sure why you're quoting section 103, as it only has to do with reverse engineering the protection mechanism, not the use of modchips. The exchange of information refers to using protocols to talk to the system, it does not allow you to run unauthorized game code ("to the extent that doing so does not constitute infringement"). You're basically just injecting what you want the words to mean into your understanding of the law. Unfortunately it doesn't work that way. And no, a disclaimer does not make it any less illegal to sell illegal modchips. Ham Pastrami ( talk) 03:16, 3 February 2008 (UTC)the circumvention of copy protection mechanisms - is outlawed by many countries' copyright laws such as the DMCA in the USA, the EUCD and its various implementations by the EU member countries, and the Australian Copyright Act. Other laws may apply to modchips, sometimes allowing very specific functions such as region coding circumvention.
It seems to me the neutrality of this article is being brought into question, on several occasions. I'd like to add to that. The general gist of this article seems to be very anti-mod chip with phrases such as "...which invalidates a major reason to use a modchip." ( Mythiran ( talk) 15:58, 7 April 2008 (UTC))
To the anonymous editor from 98.227.192.222: The effort is certainly appreciated, but the legality of modchips is impossible to state due to the many diversified possible functions and methods of modchips, even in countries where applicable laws are quite concrete the legality would have to be evaluated in court. Also, if you take a look at the discussion pages, you will see that legal conclusions are a touchy subject and have traditionally lead to heated discussions and edit wars. It is best to stay away from making definitive conclusions and leave the legality section inconclusive. Freddy Talk 12:14, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
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![]() | This article has recently had a major rewrite, and a major change in focus. Please keep a cool head in discussing these changes. |
|
|
"A modified version that allows users to play commercial DVDs from all regions was listed at US$499." Isn't this contradictory to their stance on CPRM? They go after modchip makers for bypassing CPRM, yet profited from it. Couldn't something like this be raided in a RAID?
I would like to propose a general cleanup of this page. While I acknowledge the effort some have put into describing the various modchips for the systems, I find the level of detail, especially in the "History" section, counterproductive. Describing technical details of modchips (i.e. the "Qoob" for GameCube) is like describing technical details of car models in the article about cars. I'd rather see the article reformatted and slendered down to make a general statement. And I'd like to know what the consensus would be for such a reformatting. -- Freddy Talk 14:56, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
As recommended by WP:SUBPAGES, I have started the Temp page for this major revision draft. Freddy Talk 23:53, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
Major adjustments to the revision draft. Could I have everyones' opinion on that almost complete rewrite? Also, I've been working late, so my wording may not be the very best. Please correct it as you see fit. Freddy Talk 00:54, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
Moved outdated discussions and those who target already changed content to a newly created Archive page. -- Freddy Talk 15:09, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
This article could really use better formating. The currently it is not divided into sections, and long sections of straight prose are not good for reading. 65.41.54.53
This article could also benefit from mentions of alternatives to chipping, such as boot disks, Gamesharks, cartridge converters, and the like. It also does not mention the Saturn, which has fairly unique protection methods (regional lockout is separate from copy protection; regional lockout can be easily overcome via a cartridge such as ST Key or Action Replay, though to bypass copy protection requires a chip. Only one Saturn chip ever was able to bypass regional lockout.) A brief mention of consoles which do not feature protection would also be a good idea-many cartridge-based systems, the 3DO, and presumably others fall into this category.)
There is new modchip/programmer called infectus. Ut's full reprogrammable and can be every thing. Can be it added like a new generation? I have big doubts about the correct position where to put it. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.72.115.156 ( talk) 09:39, 10 April 2007 (UTC).
According to this Gamespot article [1] ESA IPs have been editing this article. They have edited it to say that mod chips are flatly illegal because of the DMCA. I don't believe this is fact, and I believe this is nothing more than their legal opinion on an issue that is still under question. There is no source proving it. If someone does not provide a source showing the DMCA makes mod chips completely illegal, with no grey area, as this article states, I will remove that statement. Edward4321 07:08, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
The Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) does not mention modchips in particular, but some may interpret the meaning of the law as stating that modchips are illegal because many are made specifically to circumvent the copy-protection features of their host systems. During the rise of Modchips for the original PlayStation, and prior to the DMCA, various import game dealers introduced a so-called anti-piracy or good Modchip, which was further developed to allow playback of import games, but not burned game discs.
I would like to object the verbose and abusive use of the term "piracy" in this article, for the reasons stated by the Free Software Foundation:
Publishers often refer to prohibited copying as “piracy.” In this way, they imply that illegal copying is ethically equivalent to attacking ships on the high seas, kidnapping and murdering the people on them. If you don't believe that illegal copying is just like kidnapping and murder, you might prefer not to use the word “piracy” to describe it. Neutral terms such as “prohibited copying” or “unauthorized copying” are available for use instead. Some of us might even prefer to use a positive term such as “sharing information with your neighbor.”
On top of that Piracy is not a legally accepted term (in the USA) to describe Copyright infringement. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 201.208.131.6 ( talk) 00:50, August 20, 2007 (UTC)
I have now replaced the article with an almost complete re-write. Above all, it cuts the excessive use of examples in the "history" section that has gone to the point where it describes installation routines. Also, the "legality" section, which has traditionally been a point of contention, has been generalised.
That being said, the information previously collected under the "history" section is not entirely useless. It just shouldn't clutter up the modchip article. It can very well be used in individual articles or sections with the respective video game systems (which in turn can be referenced under "see also" in the Modchip article). This revision contains the last pre-revision version of the article and can serve as copy/paste source.
Of course, I do not claim that the article is perfect in its present form. It can and should be improved. But I strongly feel that this revision was very necessary to turn the article towards encyclopedic value. Freddy Talk 17:45, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
Both the "vast memory card" and the "memory32" are not modchips but rather very special memory cards, comparable to passthrough devices. But, above anything, the last major revision of this article got rid of the excess example farm, mentioning single product names should not be necessary to explain the concept of a modchip. -- Freddy Talk 07:45, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
One of the main goals I wanted to achieve with the major revision was to rewrite the Legality section so it does not make specific statements about legality in various countries. I rather chose to include the different laws that apply. Especially since Australian law has been a controversial subject in the past.
To the contributor from 122.106.32.229: No, Australia does not allow modchips as you said, it does, however, not outlaw them per se either. The Australian Copyright Law (as referenced) does clearly outlaw the circumvention of copy protection measures, and it also clearly allows region code circumvention (as noted). Whether or not this makes a modchip illegal is up to the courts to decide (And, no, the 2005 High Court decision has been superseded by recent law changes and does not apply anymore). The article only states the two laws that have to be applied without making a final statement.
Finally, deleting the reference does not make the Australian Copyright Law and its implications on modchip legality go away, so please refrain from deleting it. Freddy Talk 17:40, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
The DMCA line was just incorrect and was purely illusive of the fact that the DMCA does not have anything to do with Physical Media, if anything this would have to do with duplication laws and not the DMCA. IF someone can find a rightful source of how this would be tied into the DMCA and thusly be illegal in the United States then please post it otherwise please stop posting it up there. 75.58.2.247 ( talk) 05:27, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
Also, I'm not sure why you're quoting section 103, as it only has to do with reverse engineering the protection mechanism, not the use of modchips. The exchange of information refers to using protocols to talk to the system, it does not allow you to run unauthorized game code ("to the extent that doing so does not constitute infringement"). You're basically just injecting what you want the words to mean into your understanding of the law. Unfortunately it doesn't work that way. And no, a disclaimer does not make it any less illegal to sell illegal modchips. Ham Pastrami ( talk) 03:16, 3 February 2008 (UTC)the circumvention of copy protection mechanisms - is outlawed by many countries' copyright laws such as the DMCA in the USA, the EUCD and its various implementations by the EU member countries, and the Australian Copyright Act. Other laws may apply to modchips, sometimes allowing very specific functions such as region coding circumvention.
It seems to me the neutrality of this article is being brought into question, on several occasions. I'd like to add to that. The general gist of this article seems to be very anti-mod chip with phrases such as "...which invalidates a major reason to use a modchip." ( Mythiran ( talk) 15:58, 7 April 2008 (UTC))
To the anonymous editor from 98.227.192.222: The effort is certainly appreciated, but the legality of modchips is impossible to state due to the many diversified possible functions and methods of modchips, even in countries where applicable laws are quite concrete the legality would have to be evaluated in court. Also, if you take a look at the discussion pages, you will see that legal conclusions are a touchy subject and have traditionally lead to heated discussions and edit wars. It is best to stay away from making definitive conclusions and leave the legality section inconclusive. Freddy Talk 12:14, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Modchip. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 18:32, 6 December 2017 (UTC)