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This article seems kind of silly and overblown. There is really no area where it states the difference between a burrito and a San Francisco burrito? What about a brurrito in Los Angeles or San Diego?? This sounds like a tourist ploy, insisting that San Francisco has a burrito that is somehow more historical than anything burrito in Los Angeles, Texas, or even Mexico. Im sorry but this sounds like an attempt at advertisement and embellished-up history. It feels like patrons of certain places have decided to enter in on the 'creation' debate and use this forum for advertising a favored taqueria. Either way, the article is WAY too long considering its topic. It needs to be thinned out and freed of unnecessary fluff. Does burrito production in San Francisco really differ from that anywhere else...?? Or is it implied that the 'assembly line' style of making a burrito was invented in San Francisco?? Come on. Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.179.219.251 ( talk) 21:06, 16 September 2009 (UTC)
I was the original author of the article. I have very much appreciated all the work done on it by others, as well, in particular the noble efforts of Viriditas. This page has survived several attempts to merge it because a careful reading will demonstrate that its claims of a unique local history of burrito production are supported by a number of sources cited in the article, not simply the New Yorker article. Although it's worth stating that Calvin Trillin is a notable and well-loved food writer and has credibility to spare.
This assembly method and the style of burrito have spread widely over the last ten years, but yes, this particular style of burrito and the means of producing it--the combination of elements and the way the taquerias were set up--existed first in San Francisco. As the article explains, many of the chains seen elsewhere who make this kind of burrito can be directly traced back to origins in San Francisco (for instance, all three major Boston burrito chains, and Chipotle). If someone eats a burrito like this in Chicago (by, say, going to Chipotle) their ignorance of the food's origins would not mean that the food did not originate in San Francisco. In fact, your example would be all the better argument for the existence of this page, which would school them in burrito history.
Though it is not evidence that can be easily cited in an article like this, when I wanted to check my own judgment about the worthiness of the topic, one of the things I did was to go to Chowhound, a widely used food forum now housed within chow.com, and look up postings about burritos in its various cities. As I knew from when I moved to other cities from San Francisco, San Francisco exiles (or even former visitors to San FRancisco) regularly post plaintive pleas for help in finding the kinds of burritos they had grown to love in San Francisco. Thus, many cities' forums that are not San Francisco had people asking where they could find San Francisco-style or Mission-style burritos, for instance, http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/563861
Of note, I did not title this page "Mission-style" burritos because of the likelihood of confusion to people outside of San Francisco who would not know the Mission as a specific neighborhood in San Francisco. But the common use of this phrase in discussion forums around the country again emphasizes the very specific origins of this style.
Though unfortunately some of the following google searches have multiple duplicate posts because of the set-up of chow.com, in sum I believe they readily make the point that this is an accepted category of burrito, to which lovers of burritos can refer and find others who understand their reference.
In contrast, the larger burrito article explains the overall concept of a burrito, which did _not_ start in San Francisco, and variations on the theme that exist in other regions. The San Francisco content would either have to be eliminated (for which I think there is no justification) or would overwhelm the rest of the burrito page.
I thank you for your attention to this page but respectfully disagree with your conclusions. I believe that a more thorough examination of burrito history and sociology justify the page's existence. I appreciate the continued attentions of other burrito scholars to the project of further improving this page.
Joewright ( talk) 15:35, 25 April 2010 (UTC)
Anyone got a recipe? Is it relevant to include it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.65.217.11 ( talk) 17:52, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
does the tortilla really have been steamed to be a san francisco burrito? i've eaten many that were grilled and actually prefer it.. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.182.30.150 ( talk) 19:57, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
Then it wouldn't be a S.F. burrito... The steaming stretches the tortilla elastic so it can hold a lot of stuff. A grilled one would make it somewhat stiff and wouldn't be as effective. (e.g. soft taco to crunchy taco). I grew up one block from one of the originators of the S.F. burrito-La Cumbre. The huge burritos were known as 'super burritos,' and in the 80s they usually cost 4-5 bucks (7 nowadays). At the time I took these for granted not knowing that this was an actual San Francisco-based food tradition that was taking place. It was dinner and lunch during my college years. What was described on how to eat this massive burrito is actually very accurate, because that's how I ate it.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.205.208.21 ( talk • contribs) 18:07, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
20:33, 21 November 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.159.210.66 ( talk)
What is with the Imitators and descendants section? In each of SF's neighborhoods, some food involves wrapping a tortilla around something? actually that is only true in the mission. the chinese and japanese do not wrap a tortilla around anything, the russians certainly don't do it, and there are no other ethnic groups represented by a neighborhood. what an annoying comment. Zmbe ( talk) 19:40, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
This section is unsourced and is no longer about common burrito fillings. An editor just added "ojos", which are not as common, and rarely (if ever) used in San Francisco burritos; they are actually used in tacos. Viriditas ( talk) 11:59, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
I would suggest that due to the huge controversy and strong opinions this section be restricted to taquerias notable for slightly more objective reasons. Including La Faro due to their supposed development of the super burrito is sourceable. Including La Taqueria, which is notably very controversial due to their lack of rice and higher-than-average prices, probably isn't a good idea. Even with individual articles the objective ratings are too inconsistent to merit inclusion based on one source alone. If a taqueria is to be included due to sheer popularity I would suggest that this be based on consistent, long-term acclaim: e.g. Taqueria Can-Cun, though it has detractors, has been voted the San Francisco Bay Guardian's Best of the Bay for nine out of the past ten years. This would thus be indicative of lasting, widespread (as the award is based on reader votes) popularity. 69.181.55.239 ( talk) 23:06, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
I LOVE EATING FOIL. All the burritos in the article are wrapped in foil and do not show the actual burrito. Is the San Fransisco style burrito strictly for robot consumption? Skooma2112 ( talk) 04:02, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
The data is easily available. Last time I checked there were 100 entries. Viriditas ( talk) 11:17, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
As an addendum to an earlier comment I posted this year. I've had both living in the Mission for over 20 years. I prefer mine steamed, because it doesn't break apart. Come to think about it, I've had one as big as my forearm - and had to cut in half (half for dinner and half for lunch). Once you eat one of these - there's no need to eat another meal for the rest of the day.
20:30, 21 November 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.159.210.66 ( talk)
The result of the move request was: page moved to Mission burrito. Mini apolis 14:35, 11 April 2013 (UTC)
San Francisco burrito → Mission-style burrito – Mission-style burrito is a much more common way of referring to these. Many websites and books and articles refer to mission burritos or mission-style burritos. The arguments about using the name SF Burrito to avoid confusion should be dropped - wikipedia article titles are not there to coddle the user, we have many obscure topics here, and pages should be named based on the common usage; based on my research to date, and eating many mission burritos, I believe Mission-style burrito is the best name. Obi-Wan Kenobi ( talk) 14:22, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
Viriditas and I seem to have gotten into a little bit of a content dispute over some of what is stated the lede, so I'll start a discussion here about particular aspects rather than just continuing to edit the article in ways that have previously been reverted. The first aspect of this that I'll mention is that twice I have changed "Calvin Trillin observed" to "Calvin Trillin said", and twice that change has been reverted. My view is that, as described in the Manual of Style section at WP:SAY, the use of the word "observed" rather than "said" may seem to express a degree of unverifiable subjective bias. Can we please change that to "Calvin Trillin said"? — BarrelProof ( talk) 20:26, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
What does this Cegłowski quotation add to the article? It's a fun and whimsical passage, but it seems like an awfully long quotation if all it's doing is illustrating that someone once wrote a short story about Mission burritos. And the author doesn't really seem notable either. Ibadibam ( talk) 23:19, 11 April 2013 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: No consensus to move. Some good arguments made by both supports and opposes below, and they balance each other out. It appears both names are used quite frequently, so we have no consensus to move. ( non-admin closure) — Amakuru ( talk) 10:51, 23 January 2015 (UTC)
Mission burrito →
Mission-style burrito – Google results etc. are misleading, because the phrases "Mission Burrito" and "Mission-style burrito" refer to two different things, the former being a restaurant chain and the latter being the subject of this article. --Relisted. —
Amakuru (
talk) 21:25, 15 January 2015 (UTC)
Foogus (
talk) 17:31, 7 January 2015 (UTC)
If anybody is familiar with how the burritos are made in San Francisco, does grilling occur after the burrito is assembled? The alternative reading is that the tortillas are sometimes grilled prior to adding ingredients and folding the tortilla, which seems like it would make them brittle. I've eaten at restaurants that grill the assembled burrito, but those were outside California. Heaviside glow ( talk) 20:57, 22 January 2016 (UTC)
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This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Mission burrito article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1 |
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
To-do list for Mission burrito:
|
On 26 March 2013, it was proposed that this article be moved from San Francisco burrito to Mission-style burrito. The result of the discussion was page moved to Mission burrito. |
Archives
|
This article seems kind of silly and overblown. There is really no area where it states the difference between a burrito and a San Francisco burrito? What about a brurrito in Los Angeles or San Diego?? This sounds like a tourist ploy, insisting that San Francisco has a burrito that is somehow more historical than anything burrito in Los Angeles, Texas, or even Mexico. Im sorry but this sounds like an attempt at advertisement and embellished-up history. It feels like patrons of certain places have decided to enter in on the 'creation' debate and use this forum for advertising a favored taqueria. Either way, the article is WAY too long considering its topic. It needs to be thinned out and freed of unnecessary fluff. Does burrito production in San Francisco really differ from that anywhere else...?? Or is it implied that the 'assembly line' style of making a burrito was invented in San Francisco?? Come on. Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.179.219.251 ( talk) 21:06, 16 September 2009 (UTC)
I was the original author of the article. I have very much appreciated all the work done on it by others, as well, in particular the noble efforts of Viriditas. This page has survived several attempts to merge it because a careful reading will demonstrate that its claims of a unique local history of burrito production are supported by a number of sources cited in the article, not simply the New Yorker article. Although it's worth stating that Calvin Trillin is a notable and well-loved food writer and has credibility to spare.
This assembly method and the style of burrito have spread widely over the last ten years, but yes, this particular style of burrito and the means of producing it--the combination of elements and the way the taquerias were set up--existed first in San Francisco. As the article explains, many of the chains seen elsewhere who make this kind of burrito can be directly traced back to origins in San Francisco (for instance, all three major Boston burrito chains, and Chipotle). If someone eats a burrito like this in Chicago (by, say, going to Chipotle) their ignorance of the food's origins would not mean that the food did not originate in San Francisco. In fact, your example would be all the better argument for the existence of this page, which would school them in burrito history.
Though it is not evidence that can be easily cited in an article like this, when I wanted to check my own judgment about the worthiness of the topic, one of the things I did was to go to Chowhound, a widely used food forum now housed within chow.com, and look up postings about burritos in its various cities. As I knew from when I moved to other cities from San Francisco, San Francisco exiles (or even former visitors to San FRancisco) regularly post plaintive pleas for help in finding the kinds of burritos they had grown to love in San Francisco. Thus, many cities' forums that are not San Francisco had people asking where they could find San Francisco-style or Mission-style burritos, for instance, http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/563861
Of note, I did not title this page "Mission-style" burritos because of the likelihood of confusion to people outside of San Francisco who would not know the Mission as a specific neighborhood in San Francisco. But the common use of this phrase in discussion forums around the country again emphasizes the very specific origins of this style.
Though unfortunately some of the following google searches have multiple duplicate posts because of the set-up of chow.com, in sum I believe they readily make the point that this is an accepted category of burrito, to which lovers of burritos can refer and find others who understand their reference.
In contrast, the larger burrito article explains the overall concept of a burrito, which did _not_ start in San Francisco, and variations on the theme that exist in other regions. The San Francisco content would either have to be eliminated (for which I think there is no justification) or would overwhelm the rest of the burrito page.
I thank you for your attention to this page but respectfully disagree with your conclusions. I believe that a more thorough examination of burrito history and sociology justify the page's existence. I appreciate the continued attentions of other burrito scholars to the project of further improving this page.
Joewright ( talk) 15:35, 25 April 2010 (UTC)
Anyone got a recipe? Is it relevant to include it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.65.217.11 ( talk) 17:52, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
does the tortilla really have been steamed to be a san francisco burrito? i've eaten many that were grilled and actually prefer it.. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.182.30.150 ( talk) 19:57, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
Then it wouldn't be a S.F. burrito... The steaming stretches the tortilla elastic so it can hold a lot of stuff. A grilled one would make it somewhat stiff and wouldn't be as effective. (e.g. soft taco to crunchy taco). I grew up one block from one of the originators of the S.F. burrito-La Cumbre. The huge burritos were known as 'super burritos,' and in the 80s they usually cost 4-5 bucks (7 nowadays). At the time I took these for granted not knowing that this was an actual San Francisco-based food tradition that was taking place. It was dinner and lunch during my college years. What was described on how to eat this massive burrito is actually very accurate, because that's how I ate it.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.205.208.21 ( talk • contribs) 18:07, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
20:33, 21 November 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.159.210.66 ( talk)
What is with the Imitators and descendants section? In each of SF's neighborhoods, some food involves wrapping a tortilla around something? actually that is only true in the mission. the chinese and japanese do not wrap a tortilla around anything, the russians certainly don't do it, and there are no other ethnic groups represented by a neighborhood. what an annoying comment. Zmbe ( talk) 19:40, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
This section is unsourced and is no longer about common burrito fillings. An editor just added "ojos", which are not as common, and rarely (if ever) used in San Francisco burritos; they are actually used in tacos. Viriditas ( talk) 11:59, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
I would suggest that due to the huge controversy and strong opinions this section be restricted to taquerias notable for slightly more objective reasons. Including La Faro due to their supposed development of the super burrito is sourceable. Including La Taqueria, which is notably very controversial due to their lack of rice and higher-than-average prices, probably isn't a good idea. Even with individual articles the objective ratings are too inconsistent to merit inclusion based on one source alone. If a taqueria is to be included due to sheer popularity I would suggest that this be based on consistent, long-term acclaim: e.g. Taqueria Can-Cun, though it has detractors, has been voted the San Francisco Bay Guardian's Best of the Bay for nine out of the past ten years. This would thus be indicative of lasting, widespread (as the award is based on reader votes) popularity. 69.181.55.239 ( talk) 23:06, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
I LOVE EATING FOIL. All the burritos in the article are wrapped in foil and do not show the actual burrito. Is the San Fransisco style burrito strictly for robot consumption? Skooma2112 ( talk) 04:02, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
The data is easily available. Last time I checked there were 100 entries. Viriditas ( talk) 11:17, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
As an addendum to an earlier comment I posted this year. I've had both living in the Mission for over 20 years. I prefer mine steamed, because it doesn't break apart. Come to think about it, I've had one as big as my forearm - and had to cut in half (half for dinner and half for lunch). Once you eat one of these - there's no need to eat another meal for the rest of the day.
20:30, 21 November 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.159.210.66 ( talk)
The result of the move request was: page moved to Mission burrito. Mini apolis 14:35, 11 April 2013 (UTC)
San Francisco burrito → Mission-style burrito – Mission-style burrito is a much more common way of referring to these. Many websites and books and articles refer to mission burritos or mission-style burritos. The arguments about using the name SF Burrito to avoid confusion should be dropped - wikipedia article titles are not there to coddle the user, we have many obscure topics here, and pages should be named based on the common usage; based on my research to date, and eating many mission burritos, I believe Mission-style burrito is the best name. Obi-Wan Kenobi ( talk) 14:22, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
Viriditas and I seem to have gotten into a little bit of a content dispute over some of what is stated the lede, so I'll start a discussion here about particular aspects rather than just continuing to edit the article in ways that have previously been reverted. The first aspect of this that I'll mention is that twice I have changed "Calvin Trillin observed" to "Calvin Trillin said", and twice that change has been reverted. My view is that, as described in the Manual of Style section at WP:SAY, the use of the word "observed" rather than "said" may seem to express a degree of unverifiable subjective bias. Can we please change that to "Calvin Trillin said"? — BarrelProof ( talk) 20:26, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
What does this Cegłowski quotation add to the article? It's a fun and whimsical passage, but it seems like an awfully long quotation if all it's doing is illustrating that someone once wrote a short story about Mission burritos. And the author doesn't really seem notable either. Ibadibam ( talk) 23:19, 11 April 2013 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: No consensus to move. Some good arguments made by both supports and opposes below, and they balance each other out. It appears both names are used quite frequently, so we have no consensus to move. ( non-admin closure) — Amakuru ( talk) 10:51, 23 January 2015 (UTC)
Mission burrito →
Mission-style burrito – Google results etc. are misleading, because the phrases "Mission Burrito" and "Mission-style burrito" refer to two different things, the former being a restaurant chain and the latter being the subject of this article. --Relisted. —
Amakuru (
talk) 21:25, 15 January 2015 (UTC)
Foogus (
talk) 17:31, 7 January 2015 (UTC)
If anybody is familiar with how the burritos are made in San Francisco, does grilling occur after the burrito is assembled? The alternative reading is that the tortillas are sometimes grilled prior to adding ingredients and folding the tortilla, which seems like it would make them brittle. I've eaten at restaurants that grill the assembled burrito, but those were outside California. Heaviside glow ( talk) 20:57, 22 January 2016 (UTC)
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