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In reading section "Courtship behaviour" I came across a few bits that sound like English as a Foreign Language:
Dictionary definition for single is "an unmarried person" which is consistent with all those government forms we have to fill out whenever we deal with the bank, rent, driving licence authorities, passports, etc where the "Marital status" responses always begin with "Single (never married)" explicitly. However, very recently I have encountered people saying the word "single" yet expecting their audience to hear "not currently seriously dating anyone" (not that that label has objective criteria, so it's largely open to personal interpretation). This article uses the official meaning for "single" (never married) however I expect if this linguistic drift continues, naive future readers will misunderstand the statistics presented as referring to people not-dating. Therefore I would suggest searching for "single" and changing it (where appropriate) to "unmarried" to reduce potential ambiguity. This proposed change is less cut-and-dried than the others though. Thanks. 49.195.77.158 ( talk) 11:23, 19 February 2022 (UTC)
Please update year range? 2600:1003:B033:E074:BC47:E5E5:E5AB:6B09 ( talk) 17:36, 30 March 2022 (UTC)
So this information can't be accurate , this study involves individuals between 18-24 and then again 65nand older, where's the.information between 24 -65? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.111.255.220 ( talk) 05:38, 16 April 2022 (UTC)
The age range needs to be updated to include 1997. 2600:6C55:547F:F60D:104A:D74C:A50F:90C9 ( talk) 13:39, 1 May 2022 (UTC)
I see this edit changing millennials to ending in the mid 90s only was done to make it more “consistent” with the rest of the article. This change doesn’t make sense when under the range section, it has sources stating:
CNN reports that studies often use 1981–1996 to define millennials, but sometimes list 1980–2000.[71] The Resolution Foundation uses 1981–2000.[72] Elwood Carlson identified the birth years of 1983–2001, based on the upswing in births after 1983 and finishing with the "political and social challenges" that occurred after the September 11th terrorist acts.[73] Author Neil Howe, co-creator of the Strauss–Howe generational theory, defines millennials as being born from 1982 to 2004.
In this case, I believe the edit should be reverted. Additionally there is no mention that the US Census had been using a millennial end of 2000 as well since the 2020 Census:
https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/newsroom/press-kits/2020/2020-demographic-analysis/presentation-2020-demographic-analysis-news-conference.pdf Centennial357 ( talk) 19:00, 26 May 2022 (UTC)
https://www.jchs.harvard.edu/blog/are-millennials-so-different-generations-them (Harvard May 2021 stating 1981-2000)
https://education.nationalgeographic.org/resource/mapmaker-generations (National Geographic May 2022 stating 1981-1998)
https://www.nielsen.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2019/04/millennials-on-millennials-in-canada-2018.pdf (Nielsen May 2018 stating 1980-2000)
https://www.goldmansachs.com/insights/archive/millennials/ (Goldman Sachs 2015 staying 1980-2000)
The first three sources being less than 5yrs old, and all four from well known organizations shedding light on millennials. Centennial357 ( talk) 01:19, 28 May 2022 (UTC)
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Indeed uses 1981–1996 definition. Please add it on
Millennials#Date and age range definitions section.
Source: [1]
117.53.77.84 ( talk) 22:02, 21 June 2022 (UTC)
In the Cultural Identity / USA section, the text says that the most representative musicians are Taylor Swift, Beyoncé, the Backstreet Boys, Michael Jackson, Drake, and Eminem, but the accompanying photos include Kanye West. The article that is linked regarding musicians does not mention Kanye at all and there does not appear to be another source suggesting that he is representative (or the source isn't clearly indicated). Is there a source on Kanye being one of the most representative musicians for Millenials? If not, should he be removed from the series of photos? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:2F0B:B711:0:CCAB:D655:F308:94F8 ( talk) 09:28, 22 May 2022 (UTC)
25 to 39 years old as of 2021 was defined as Millennials in the 2021 Australian census. [1] Should we add it on Date and age range definitions section or not?
References
117.53.77.84 ( talk) 10:49, 30 June 2022 (UTC)
This
edit request to
Millennials has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
REMOVE PARAGRAPH: American Millennials that have, or are, serving in the military may have drastically different views and opinions than their non-veteran counterparts.[105] Because of this, some do not identify with their generation;[106] this coincides with most millennials having a lack of exposure and knowledge of the military, yet trust its leadership.[107] Yet, the view of some senior leadership of serving millennials are not always positive.[108]
REASON: Claim is not fact- or data-based and poorly cited. Citation 105 links to a dead page. Citations 106, 107, 108 come from one source (Hoover Institution) and are highly editorial/opinion in nature. Heavypixel ( talk) 19:40, 1 September 2022 (UTC)
Howdy, folks! Since this article is already really long, I suggest we split it into "Millennials" and "Millennials in the United States," since much of the material here pertains to that country. The latter is now a draft. "Millennials in the United States" is presently a redirect. Nerd271 ( talk) 15:52, 18 September 2022 (UTC)
"Between 1992 and 2002, Russia's population dropped from 149 million to 144 million. According to the "medium case scenario" of the U.N.'s Population Division, Russia could lose another 20 million people by the 2020s."
The source is an article from 2004. It's 2022 now and Russia's population is still 144 million. 85.108.154.225 ( talk) 16:09, 7 October 2022 (UTC)
A millennium is 1000 years. A millennial is a person born to a new millennium. There was no year 0 so 1-1001-2001. A millennial is a person born in the year 2001 or after. 82.3.20.48 ( talk) 08:16, 25 November 2022 (UTC)
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In the lead, please add another sentence clarifying why Millennials are called that (since a lot people get confused and think it's 2000s-borns). Change
"Millennials have been described as the first global generation and the first generation that grew up in the Internet age. [1] The generation is generally marked by elevated usage of and familiarity with the Internet, mobile devices, and social media, [2] which is why they are sometimes termed digital natives. [3] Between the 1990s and the 2010s, people from the developing world became increasingly well educated, a factor that boosted economic growth in these countries. [4] Millennials across the world have suffered significant economic disruption since starting their working lives; many faced high levels of youth unemployment during their early years in the labour market in the wake of the Great Recession, and suffered another recession in 2020 due to the COVID-19 pandemic. [5] [6]"
to
"Millennials are named as such because they grew up around the turn of the 3rd millennium. [7] They have been described as the first global generation and the first generation that grew up in the Internet age. [8] The generation is generally marked by elevated usage of and familiarity with the Internet, mobile devices, and social media, [9] which is why they are sometimes termed digital natives. [3] Between the 1990s and the 2010s, people from the developing world became increasingly well educated, a factor that boosted economic growth in these countries. [4] Millennials across the world have suffered significant economic disruption since starting their working lives; many faced high levels of youth unemployment during their early years in the labour market in the wake of the Great Recession, and suffered another recession in 2020 due to the COVID-19 pandemic. [5] [6]" 174.55.91.169 ( talk) 03:41, 3 February 2023 (UTC)
References
Prensky
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).:55
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).Terminology and etymologyis already the first section, and the lede states the specific criteria for being a millennial. – small jars
t
c
09:44, 3 February 2023 (UTC)
would it be possible to add the notion of "disenchantment of the world" in the section 'Religious beliefs', a term coined by Marcel Gauchet in his 1985's self titled book. It's mainly linked to Millennials from Western countries because his theory touches on Christianity. He states that due to the historical unfolding of the religion, Western countries were loosing touch with Christianity while it lost its foothold in those countries' institutions. I believe it's relevant to add it on this page, in this section, because according to Gauchet, the disenchantment is contemporary to the period to which Millennials were born and the spiritual environment they grew up in. Kafkai1xx 2 September 2021, 02:27pm UTC+0
In the section on "Cognitive Abilities", the phrase "because more students take the SAT in the 2010s then in the 1970s" should be corrected to "than" for the sake of correct word usage. 2600:6C40:6100:FF8E:F82E:DDA2:5A14:EFBD ( talk) 18:00, 21 February 2023 (UTC)
I think the US census mention should be moved to the third paragraph of the section because it says the US census using 1981-1996 defition. 117.53.77.84 ( talk) 05:02, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
in the first paragraph, this article erroneously states that millennials are: "the children of baby boomers or the children of older generation. x parents. " this is a glaring obvious ridiculous fact error. The opposite has to be true because the baby boom generation otherwise known as generation w came before generation x, so millennials children would be the offspring of older baby boomers rather than gen x parents. somebody please fix this because it sounds effing stupid and makes Wikipedia look bad. 75.251.57.56 ( talk) 20:06, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
Hi Nerd271, you readded this standalone text which I had removed.
"A YouGov poll conducted in the spring of 2018 revealed that 58% of Britons between the ages of 25 and 49 thought that immigration to their country was "too high", compared to 41% of those aged 18 to 24."
The issue here is that whilst the section is mostly made up of paragraphs of analysis of lots of different evidence brought together this is a one of poll without any context given. If we did this for every or even a handful of age samples from polls conducted since the oldest millennials became adults that section would quickly become a disorganised mess. It is also questionable whether age subsamples of polls intended to cover the entire population are really large enough to be useful. Llewee ( talk) 15:55, 15 February 2023 (UTC)
This is an article about millennials as a generation; it's not a general article for every single bit of demographic information that exists anywhere. I don't think we should be using sources, or including significant text, that doesn't talk about millenials (or words to that effect, like Gen Y or clear discussion of generational cohorts that includes millenials.) That topic is already massively broad and has huge amounts of coverage; there's no need to include every poll that happens to cover that particular demographic, or everything published in 2001 that talks about kids, or every article saying that the world has changed in any context or whatever. I'm going to start going over the article to remove clearly non-millenial-related stuff. And some of this is just completely random data with no connection to millenials whatsoever - eg. paragraphs and sources about the economy of Europe with no mention, in the paragraphs or the sources, of any demographic or generational impact at all. That's pure WP:SYNTH, surely. -- Aquillion ( talk) 15:40, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
"A rural county's chances of having a performing arts organization is 60% higher if it is located near a national park or forest." Says who? 2600:1700:1936:4810:D90E:AECF:D65A:C76 ( talk) 22:25, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
@ Richie wright1980: Please do not undertake a complete restructuring of the date range section, as you did here, without first obtaining a consensus. The way you have framed the section makes it look like there is a huge debate over whether 1980 or 1981 is the "start" date for being a millenial. As you can see from the RFC above, we do not accept that such a debate exists. The emerging consensus from the RFC is that 1980 should not receive any more prominence than the other dates, so I suggest you let that finish before initiating any more changes to the framing of dates in the article. Betty Logan ( talk) 23:15, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
VERSION A
|
---|
Oxford Living Dictionaries describes a millennial as a person "born between the early 1980s and the late 1990s." [1] Merriam-Webster Dictionary defines millennial as "a person born in the 1980s or 1990s." [2] More detailed definitions in use are as follows: 1981 - 1996Jonathan Rauch, senior fellow at the Brookings Institution, wrote for The Economist in 2018 that "generations are squishy concepts", but the 1981 to 1996 birth cohort is a "widely accepted" definition for millennials. [3] Reuters also state that the "widely accepted definition" is 1981–1996. [4] Likewise, the Pew Research Center defines millennials as the people born from 1981 to 1996, choosing these dates for "key political, economic and social factors", including the September 11 terrorist attacks, the 2003 invasion of Iraq, Great Recession, and Internet explosion. [5] [6] The United States Library of Congress explains that date ranges are 'subjective' and the traits of each cohort are generalized based around common economic, social, or political factors that happened during formative years. They acknowledge disagreements, complaints over date ranges, generation names, and the over-generalized "personality" of each generation. They suggest that marketers and journalists use the different groupings to target their marketing to particular age groups. However, they cite Pew's 1981–1996 definition to define millennials. [7] Various media outlets and statistical organizations have cited Pew's definition including Time magazine, [8] BBC, [9] The New York Times, [10] The Guardian, [11] the United States Bureau of Labor Statistics, [12] and Statistics Canada. [13] The Brookings Institution defines the millennial generation as people born from 1981 to 1996, [14] as does Gallup, [15] Federal Reserve Board, [16] American Psychological Association, [17] CBS, [18] and ABC Australia. [19] Encyclopædia Britannica defines millennials as "the term used to describe a person born between 1981 and 1996, though different sources can vary by a year or two." [20] Although the United States Census Bureau have said that "there is no official start and end date for when millennials were born" [21] and they do not officially define millennials, [22] a U.S. Census publication in 2022 noted that Millennials are "colloquially defined as the cohort born from 1981 to 1996", using this definition in a breakdown of Survey of Income and Program Participation (SIPP) data. [23] Other definitionsAustralia's McCrindle Research uses 1980–1994 as Generation Y (millennial) birth years. [24] Likewise, psychologist Jean Twenge defines millennials as those born 1980–1994. [25] A report by Ipsos MORI describes the term 'millennials' as a working title for the circa 15-year birth cohort born around 1980 to 1995, which has 'unique, defining traits'. [26] Governmental institutions such as the UK Department of Health and Social Care and the Center for the Promotion of Imports in the Netherlands have also used 1980 to 1995. [27] [28] CNN reports that studies sometimes define millennials as born between 1980–2000. [29] A 2017 BBC report has also referred to this age range in reference to that used by National Records of Scotland. [30] Academic publications by the Michigan State University, Eastern Michigan University, Kennesaw State University and Merrimack College cite millennials as born in 1980. [31] [32] [33] [34] The Australian Bureau of Statistics uses 1981–1995 to define Millennials in a 2021 Census report. [35] In the UK, the Resolution Foundation uses 1981–2000. [36] Sociologist Elwood Carlson, who calls the generation "New Boomers", identified the birth years of 1983–2001, based on the upswing in births after 1983 and finishing with the "political and social challenges" that occurred after the September 11 terrorist acts. [37] Author Neil Howe, co-creator of the Strauss–Howe generational theory, defines millennials as being born from 1982 to 2004. [38] Micro-generationsThe cohorts born during the cusp years before and after millennials have been identified as "microgenerations" with characteristics of both generations. Names given to these cuspers include Xennials, [39] Generation Catalano, [40] the Oregon Trail Generation; [41] Zennials [42] and Zillennials, [43] respectively. The term ‘geriatric millennial’ gained popularity in 2021 to describe those born in the beginning half of the 1980s between 1980 to 1985. The term has since been used and discussed by various media outlets including New York Post [44], Today [45], Evening Standard [46], CTV News [47], HuffPost [48], news.com.au [49], The Irish Times [50] and Business Insider [51]. Richie wright1980 ( talk) 12:19, 10 August 2023 (UTC) References
|
There is a very strong case to split and clarify the 'Date and age range definitions' section to include information regarding the different starting birth years for millenials - most notably 1980 and 1981. 69 reliable sources listed below justify a separate sub-heading for 1980 and 1981 as starting birth years for millenials. This is supported by evidence from the media, government institutions and academics and is the most up to date available. Long term contributors to the page must be careful not to revert any changes based on WP:OWN. Contributors with different points of view are specifically invited here to improve the 'Date and age range definitions' section. I have included proposals for this below: Richie wright1980 ( talk) 11:21, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
Richie wright1980 ( talk) 23:58, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
This change was already addressed in the "Date range section" section above, and there was a clear consensus against it. In addition to the issues pointed out there, the change is biased and non-NPOV. You claim 69 sources but you have only about 30, and half of these come from the somewhat fantastic claim that any publication mentioning the obscure term "geriatric millennials" even once is endorsing this date range even if they never mention 1980. There's no evidence that the "Google/Flamingo /Ipsos" study defines "millennial" at all--it's only mentioned in passing in the HuffPo-UK article (not the other two sources), and that one is a blog post and probably not a RS. You also include sources that mention both 1980 and 1981 in the "1980" section only. With one or two exceptions the rest of your sources are obscure, unlike the "1981" sources, which are all major. Please stop beating this dead horse. Dan Bloch ( talk) 07:17, 8 August 2023 (PDT)
Further to our recent communication, thank you for the reply and I have noted the comments above. I have referred to all 69 sources as a whole, not just my own. I have argued that all of them combined justify a separate sub-heading for 1980 and 1981. Some of those sources refer to 1980, some to 1981 and some to both. They confirm the existence of both date ranges.
Reply to @ User:Danbloch:
Thank you for the reply and I have noted the comments above. I have referred to all 69 sources as a whole, not just my own. I feel that all of them combined justify a separate sub-heading for 1980 and 1981. Some of those sources refer to 1980, some to 1981 and some to both. They confirm the existence of both date ranges.
The comments above address concerns regaring the lede, this section is about improving the 'Date and age range definitions' based on persausive sources. There is a request on the article page to consider splitting content into sub-articles, condensing it, or adding subheadings. This new discussion I have started here addresses this request and must not be confused with the discussion above concerning the lede.
I am willing to adapt the proposed sub-headings to '1981 as starting birth year', 'Other definitions' and 'Micro-generations'. That maintains the primacy of 1981 whilst addressing any concerns that neglected view points are properly addressed. It also addresses the concern that the article needs to be more readable.
For example, the BBC, The Guardian, Time Out etc... have referred to 1980 in some of their articles only. It must be worth mentioning that and not mislead that they have only ever referred to 1981 as the section currently implies.
What do you think?
Richie wright1980 ( talk) 18:58, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
The new proposed Date and age range definitions section takes on board the Talk page discussion in hand and is as follows:
In the lead, shouldn't this be "Most millennials are the children of Generation X and older baby boomers"? Deor ( talk) 20:32, 13 August 2023 (UTC)
This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
This
edit request to
Millennials has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
In reading section "Courtship behaviour" I came across a few bits that sound like English as a Foreign Language:
Dictionary definition for single is "an unmarried person" which is consistent with all those government forms we have to fill out whenever we deal with the bank, rent, driving licence authorities, passports, etc where the "Marital status" responses always begin with "Single (never married)" explicitly. However, very recently I have encountered people saying the word "single" yet expecting their audience to hear "not currently seriously dating anyone" (not that that label has objective criteria, so it's largely open to personal interpretation). This article uses the official meaning for "single" (never married) however I expect if this linguistic drift continues, naive future readers will misunderstand the statistics presented as referring to people not-dating. Therefore I would suggest searching for "single" and changing it (where appropriate) to "unmarried" to reduce potential ambiguity. This proposed change is less cut-and-dried than the others though. Thanks. 49.195.77.158 ( talk) 11:23, 19 February 2022 (UTC)
Please update year range? 2600:1003:B033:E074:BC47:E5E5:E5AB:6B09 ( talk) 17:36, 30 March 2022 (UTC)
So this information can't be accurate , this study involves individuals between 18-24 and then again 65nand older, where's the.information between 24 -65? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.111.255.220 ( talk) 05:38, 16 April 2022 (UTC)
The age range needs to be updated to include 1997. 2600:6C55:547F:F60D:104A:D74C:A50F:90C9 ( talk) 13:39, 1 May 2022 (UTC)
I see this edit changing millennials to ending in the mid 90s only was done to make it more “consistent” with the rest of the article. This change doesn’t make sense when under the range section, it has sources stating:
CNN reports that studies often use 1981–1996 to define millennials, but sometimes list 1980–2000.[71] The Resolution Foundation uses 1981–2000.[72] Elwood Carlson identified the birth years of 1983–2001, based on the upswing in births after 1983 and finishing with the "political and social challenges" that occurred after the September 11th terrorist acts.[73] Author Neil Howe, co-creator of the Strauss–Howe generational theory, defines millennials as being born from 1982 to 2004.
In this case, I believe the edit should be reverted. Additionally there is no mention that the US Census had been using a millennial end of 2000 as well since the 2020 Census:
https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/newsroom/press-kits/2020/2020-demographic-analysis/presentation-2020-demographic-analysis-news-conference.pdf Centennial357 ( talk) 19:00, 26 May 2022 (UTC)
https://www.jchs.harvard.edu/blog/are-millennials-so-different-generations-them (Harvard May 2021 stating 1981-2000)
https://education.nationalgeographic.org/resource/mapmaker-generations (National Geographic May 2022 stating 1981-1998)
https://www.nielsen.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2019/04/millennials-on-millennials-in-canada-2018.pdf (Nielsen May 2018 stating 1980-2000)
https://www.goldmansachs.com/insights/archive/millennials/ (Goldman Sachs 2015 staying 1980-2000)
The first three sources being less than 5yrs old, and all four from well known organizations shedding light on millennials. Centennial357 ( talk) 01:19, 28 May 2022 (UTC)
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Indeed uses 1981–1996 definition. Please add it on
Millennials#Date and age range definitions section.
Source: [1]
117.53.77.84 ( talk) 22:02, 21 June 2022 (UTC)
In the Cultural Identity / USA section, the text says that the most representative musicians are Taylor Swift, Beyoncé, the Backstreet Boys, Michael Jackson, Drake, and Eminem, but the accompanying photos include Kanye West. The article that is linked regarding musicians does not mention Kanye at all and there does not appear to be another source suggesting that he is representative (or the source isn't clearly indicated). Is there a source on Kanye being one of the most representative musicians for Millenials? If not, should he be removed from the series of photos? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:2F0B:B711:0:CCAB:D655:F308:94F8 ( talk) 09:28, 22 May 2022 (UTC)
25 to 39 years old as of 2021 was defined as Millennials in the 2021 Australian census. [1] Should we add it on Date and age range definitions section or not?
References
117.53.77.84 ( talk) 10:49, 30 June 2022 (UTC)
This
edit request to
Millennials has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
REMOVE PARAGRAPH: American Millennials that have, or are, serving in the military may have drastically different views and opinions than their non-veteran counterparts.[105] Because of this, some do not identify with their generation;[106] this coincides with most millennials having a lack of exposure and knowledge of the military, yet trust its leadership.[107] Yet, the view of some senior leadership of serving millennials are not always positive.[108]
REASON: Claim is not fact- or data-based and poorly cited. Citation 105 links to a dead page. Citations 106, 107, 108 come from one source (Hoover Institution) and are highly editorial/opinion in nature. Heavypixel ( talk) 19:40, 1 September 2022 (UTC)
Howdy, folks! Since this article is already really long, I suggest we split it into "Millennials" and "Millennials in the United States," since much of the material here pertains to that country. The latter is now a draft. "Millennials in the United States" is presently a redirect. Nerd271 ( talk) 15:52, 18 September 2022 (UTC)
"Between 1992 and 2002, Russia's population dropped from 149 million to 144 million. According to the "medium case scenario" of the U.N.'s Population Division, Russia could lose another 20 million people by the 2020s."
The source is an article from 2004. It's 2022 now and Russia's population is still 144 million. 85.108.154.225 ( talk) 16:09, 7 October 2022 (UTC)
A millennium is 1000 years. A millennial is a person born to a new millennium. There was no year 0 so 1-1001-2001. A millennial is a person born in the year 2001 or after. 82.3.20.48 ( talk) 08:16, 25 November 2022 (UTC)
This
edit request to
Millennials has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
In the lead, please add another sentence clarifying why Millennials are called that (since a lot people get confused and think it's 2000s-borns). Change
"Millennials have been described as the first global generation and the first generation that grew up in the Internet age. [1] The generation is generally marked by elevated usage of and familiarity with the Internet, mobile devices, and social media, [2] which is why they are sometimes termed digital natives. [3] Between the 1990s and the 2010s, people from the developing world became increasingly well educated, a factor that boosted economic growth in these countries. [4] Millennials across the world have suffered significant economic disruption since starting their working lives; many faced high levels of youth unemployment during their early years in the labour market in the wake of the Great Recession, and suffered another recession in 2020 due to the COVID-19 pandemic. [5] [6]"
to
"Millennials are named as such because they grew up around the turn of the 3rd millennium. [7] They have been described as the first global generation and the first generation that grew up in the Internet age. [8] The generation is generally marked by elevated usage of and familiarity with the Internet, mobile devices, and social media, [9] which is why they are sometimes termed digital natives. [3] Between the 1990s and the 2010s, people from the developing world became increasingly well educated, a factor that boosted economic growth in these countries. [4] Millennials across the world have suffered significant economic disruption since starting their working lives; many faced high levels of youth unemployment during their early years in the labour market in the wake of the Great Recession, and suffered another recession in 2020 due to the COVID-19 pandemic. [5] [6]" 174.55.91.169 ( talk) 03:41, 3 February 2023 (UTC)
References
Prensky
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).:55
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).Terminology and etymologyis already the first section, and the lede states the specific criteria for being a millennial. – small jars
t
c
09:44, 3 February 2023 (UTC)
would it be possible to add the notion of "disenchantment of the world" in the section 'Religious beliefs', a term coined by Marcel Gauchet in his 1985's self titled book. It's mainly linked to Millennials from Western countries because his theory touches on Christianity. He states that due to the historical unfolding of the religion, Western countries were loosing touch with Christianity while it lost its foothold in those countries' institutions. I believe it's relevant to add it on this page, in this section, because according to Gauchet, the disenchantment is contemporary to the period to which Millennials were born and the spiritual environment they grew up in. Kafkai1xx 2 September 2021, 02:27pm UTC+0
In the section on "Cognitive Abilities", the phrase "because more students take the SAT in the 2010s then in the 1970s" should be corrected to "than" for the sake of correct word usage. 2600:6C40:6100:FF8E:F82E:DDA2:5A14:EFBD ( talk) 18:00, 21 February 2023 (UTC)
I think the US census mention should be moved to the third paragraph of the section because it says the US census using 1981-1996 defition. 117.53.77.84 ( talk) 05:02, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
in the first paragraph, this article erroneously states that millennials are: "the children of baby boomers or the children of older generation. x parents. " this is a glaring obvious ridiculous fact error. The opposite has to be true because the baby boom generation otherwise known as generation w came before generation x, so millennials children would be the offspring of older baby boomers rather than gen x parents. somebody please fix this because it sounds effing stupid and makes Wikipedia look bad. 75.251.57.56 ( talk) 20:06, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
Hi Nerd271, you readded this standalone text which I had removed.
"A YouGov poll conducted in the spring of 2018 revealed that 58% of Britons between the ages of 25 and 49 thought that immigration to their country was "too high", compared to 41% of those aged 18 to 24."
The issue here is that whilst the section is mostly made up of paragraphs of analysis of lots of different evidence brought together this is a one of poll without any context given. If we did this for every or even a handful of age samples from polls conducted since the oldest millennials became adults that section would quickly become a disorganised mess. It is also questionable whether age subsamples of polls intended to cover the entire population are really large enough to be useful. Llewee ( talk) 15:55, 15 February 2023 (UTC)
This is an article about millennials as a generation; it's not a general article for every single bit of demographic information that exists anywhere. I don't think we should be using sources, or including significant text, that doesn't talk about millenials (or words to that effect, like Gen Y or clear discussion of generational cohorts that includes millenials.) That topic is already massively broad and has huge amounts of coverage; there's no need to include every poll that happens to cover that particular demographic, or everything published in 2001 that talks about kids, or every article saying that the world has changed in any context or whatever. I'm going to start going over the article to remove clearly non-millenial-related stuff. And some of this is just completely random data with no connection to millenials whatsoever - eg. paragraphs and sources about the economy of Europe with no mention, in the paragraphs or the sources, of any demographic or generational impact at all. That's pure WP:SYNTH, surely. -- Aquillion ( talk) 15:40, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
"A rural county's chances of having a performing arts organization is 60% higher if it is located near a national park or forest." Says who? 2600:1700:1936:4810:D90E:AECF:D65A:C76 ( talk) 22:25, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
@ Richie wright1980: Please do not undertake a complete restructuring of the date range section, as you did here, without first obtaining a consensus. The way you have framed the section makes it look like there is a huge debate over whether 1980 or 1981 is the "start" date for being a millenial. As you can see from the RFC above, we do not accept that such a debate exists. The emerging consensus from the RFC is that 1980 should not receive any more prominence than the other dates, so I suggest you let that finish before initiating any more changes to the framing of dates in the article. Betty Logan ( talk) 23:15, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
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Oxford Living Dictionaries describes a millennial as a person "born between the early 1980s and the late 1990s." [1] Merriam-Webster Dictionary defines millennial as "a person born in the 1980s or 1990s." [2] More detailed definitions in use are as follows: 1981 - 1996Jonathan Rauch, senior fellow at the Brookings Institution, wrote for The Economist in 2018 that "generations are squishy concepts", but the 1981 to 1996 birth cohort is a "widely accepted" definition for millennials. [3] Reuters also state that the "widely accepted definition" is 1981–1996. [4] Likewise, the Pew Research Center defines millennials as the people born from 1981 to 1996, choosing these dates for "key political, economic and social factors", including the September 11 terrorist attacks, the 2003 invasion of Iraq, Great Recession, and Internet explosion. [5] [6] The United States Library of Congress explains that date ranges are 'subjective' and the traits of each cohort are generalized based around common economic, social, or political factors that happened during formative years. They acknowledge disagreements, complaints over date ranges, generation names, and the over-generalized "personality" of each generation. They suggest that marketers and journalists use the different groupings to target their marketing to particular age groups. However, they cite Pew's 1981–1996 definition to define millennials. [7] Various media outlets and statistical organizations have cited Pew's definition including Time magazine, [8] BBC, [9] The New York Times, [10] The Guardian, [11] the United States Bureau of Labor Statistics, [12] and Statistics Canada. [13] The Brookings Institution defines the millennial generation as people born from 1981 to 1996, [14] as does Gallup, [15] Federal Reserve Board, [16] American Psychological Association, [17] CBS, [18] and ABC Australia. [19] Encyclopædia Britannica defines millennials as "the term used to describe a person born between 1981 and 1996, though different sources can vary by a year or two." [20] Although the United States Census Bureau have said that "there is no official start and end date for when millennials were born" [21] and they do not officially define millennials, [22] a U.S. Census publication in 2022 noted that Millennials are "colloquially defined as the cohort born from 1981 to 1996", using this definition in a breakdown of Survey of Income and Program Participation (SIPP) data. [23] Other definitionsAustralia's McCrindle Research uses 1980–1994 as Generation Y (millennial) birth years. [24] Likewise, psychologist Jean Twenge defines millennials as those born 1980–1994. [25] A report by Ipsos MORI describes the term 'millennials' as a working title for the circa 15-year birth cohort born around 1980 to 1995, which has 'unique, defining traits'. [26] Governmental institutions such as the UK Department of Health and Social Care and the Center for the Promotion of Imports in the Netherlands have also used 1980 to 1995. [27] [28] CNN reports that studies sometimes define millennials as born between 1980–2000. [29] A 2017 BBC report has also referred to this age range in reference to that used by National Records of Scotland. [30] Academic publications by the Michigan State University, Eastern Michigan University, Kennesaw State University and Merrimack College cite millennials as born in 1980. [31] [32] [33] [34] The Australian Bureau of Statistics uses 1981–1995 to define Millennials in a 2021 Census report. [35] In the UK, the Resolution Foundation uses 1981–2000. [36] Sociologist Elwood Carlson, who calls the generation "New Boomers", identified the birth years of 1983–2001, based on the upswing in births after 1983 and finishing with the "political and social challenges" that occurred after the September 11 terrorist acts. [37] Author Neil Howe, co-creator of the Strauss–Howe generational theory, defines millennials as being born from 1982 to 2004. [38] Micro-generationsThe cohorts born during the cusp years before and after millennials have been identified as "microgenerations" with characteristics of both generations. Names given to these cuspers include Xennials, [39] Generation Catalano, [40] the Oregon Trail Generation; [41] Zennials [42] and Zillennials, [43] respectively. The term ‘geriatric millennial’ gained popularity in 2021 to describe those born in the beginning half of the 1980s between 1980 to 1985. The term has since been used and discussed by various media outlets including New York Post [44], Today [45], Evening Standard [46], CTV News [47], HuffPost [48], news.com.au [49], The Irish Times [50] and Business Insider [51]. Richie wright1980 ( talk) 12:19, 10 August 2023 (UTC) References
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There is a very strong case to split and clarify the 'Date and age range definitions' section to include information regarding the different starting birth years for millenials - most notably 1980 and 1981. 69 reliable sources listed below justify a separate sub-heading for 1980 and 1981 as starting birth years for millenials. This is supported by evidence from the media, government institutions and academics and is the most up to date available. Long term contributors to the page must be careful not to revert any changes based on WP:OWN. Contributors with different points of view are specifically invited here to improve the 'Date and age range definitions' section. I have included proposals for this below: Richie wright1980 ( talk) 11:21, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
Richie wright1980 ( talk) 23:58, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
This change was already addressed in the "Date range section" section above, and there was a clear consensus against it. In addition to the issues pointed out there, the change is biased and non-NPOV. You claim 69 sources but you have only about 30, and half of these come from the somewhat fantastic claim that any publication mentioning the obscure term "geriatric millennials" even once is endorsing this date range even if they never mention 1980. There's no evidence that the "Google/Flamingo /Ipsos" study defines "millennial" at all--it's only mentioned in passing in the HuffPo-UK article (not the other two sources), and that one is a blog post and probably not a RS. You also include sources that mention both 1980 and 1981 in the "1980" section only. With one or two exceptions the rest of your sources are obscure, unlike the "1981" sources, which are all major. Please stop beating this dead horse. Dan Bloch ( talk) 07:17, 8 August 2023 (PDT)
Further to our recent communication, thank you for the reply and I have noted the comments above. I have referred to all 69 sources as a whole, not just my own. I have argued that all of them combined justify a separate sub-heading for 1980 and 1981. Some of those sources refer to 1980, some to 1981 and some to both. They confirm the existence of both date ranges.
Reply to @ User:Danbloch:
Thank you for the reply and I have noted the comments above. I have referred to all 69 sources as a whole, not just my own. I feel that all of them combined justify a separate sub-heading for 1980 and 1981. Some of those sources refer to 1980, some to 1981 and some to both. They confirm the existence of both date ranges.
The comments above address concerns regaring the lede, this section is about improving the 'Date and age range definitions' based on persausive sources. There is a request on the article page to consider splitting content into sub-articles, condensing it, or adding subheadings. This new discussion I have started here addresses this request and must not be confused with the discussion above concerning the lede.
I am willing to adapt the proposed sub-headings to '1981 as starting birth year', 'Other definitions' and 'Micro-generations'. That maintains the primacy of 1981 whilst addressing any concerns that neglected view points are properly addressed. It also addresses the concern that the article needs to be more readable.
For example, the BBC, The Guardian, Time Out etc... have referred to 1980 in some of their articles only. It must be worth mentioning that and not mislead that they have only ever referred to 1981 as the section currently implies.
What do you think?
Richie wright1980 ( talk) 18:58, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
The new proposed Date and age range definitions section takes on board the Talk page discussion in hand and is as follows:
In the lead, shouldn't this be "Most millennials are the children of Generation X and older baby boomers"? Deor ( talk) 20:32, 13 August 2023 (UTC)