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An important issue in Ecology of Fear was that of fires... now that LA is on fire (well, part of it...) and some controversial hypotheses by Davis seem to have just come true, shouldn't this entry be updated?-- 213.140.21.227 08:34, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
I find this article far too subjective and critical of its subject. By including quotes from such a questionable and low grade source as the 'New Times' i feel that the work of Mike Davis is being completely undermined. Please refer to writings including that of Nation contributor Jon Wiener which address the issue of Davis' credibility. Because Davis is a prominent left-wing thinker, he has been the subject of a ridiculous campaign to mar both his sense of honesty and intellectual validity. Opinions such as that currently expressed in this article are heavily biased and distract from the importance of Davis' work.
The reason that 'New Times LA' is defunct is because they offerred poor factually unsupported criticisms. Anyone can critique a person for being a liberal or a conservative, but to me an effective critique of a writer is an effective critique of his books, and thus far I have failed to see an effective negative critique of the books written by Dr. Mike Davis. On the other hand I have seen multiple praise of the books by Dr. Davis by such non-defunct organizations as Kirkus Reviews, San Francisco Chronicle and The Nation.
Commodore Sloat makes a good point that there is two sided debate regarding Davis' veracity. The Los Angeles trilogy has been shown to contain factual errors, as well as a politically biased theme. Davis is a self-avowed Marxist and his work regards the inequities of Los Angeles real estate politics. The debate itself deserves mention so those reading Davis' work are aware that it is political in nature and is not uniformly acknowledged. While Westwater's work is also not above critism the Salon article linked in the biography provides a useful counterpoint. Pchoate 18:45, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
I'm not so worried about Westwater or Stewart, but the NPOV of this article regarding Davis' work as a scholar. "Literary flair" and "hyperbole" are understatements, his reporting selectively supports his thesis, and contains well established overstatements and logical fallacies. Davis makes minimal effort to balance his arguments or present them in a larger context and thus are more political than scientific. His work certainly is eye-opening and interesting, but his books are classic examples of confirmation bias. Regards - Pchoate 16:53, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
I guess I have a problem with the level of hyperbole in his writing. I do find several references confirming academic acceptance of his work. The Nation Radical Urban Theory Pchoate 23:01, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
Angotti's and other detractors' criticisms of Davis's alleged "anti-urbanism" are without foundation. The pejorative "anti-urban" was often used by centrist, pro-metropolitan, pro-market capitalist writers in the 1960s--authors such as Jane Jacobs, in the introduction to her The Death and Life of Great American Cities and Morton White and his wife Lucia White, in their The Intellectual vs. the City, so as to demagogically dismiss as "suburbany," (Jacobs) "patrician," and/or "pastoralist" (the Whites), the powerful criticisms of the unsustainability of the big city form, made by such authors as Davis, Lewis Mumford, Garrett Eckbo, all the way back to Marx and Engels themselves, and their proposals for decentralization. Angotti, Andy Merrifield, and Marshall Berman, from a left-liberal standpoint, today follow in the footsteps of Jane Jacobs and the Whites, in detracting critics of the metropolis like Davis and Mumford. The implication, which Angotti makes explicit, is that such "anti-urban" writers are actually indifferent or hostile to the plight of the poor and the workers who happen now to LIVE in these cities--as if they CHOSE to live in these "slums," as if to call them "slums" and decry the poor conditions under which the poor live there, was an insult to them, rather than an analysis which might serve toward their liberation from those conditions. In addition, these "metropolitans" brand the "anti-urbanists" insufficiently cognizant of the capacity of the lower classes to somehow reform the big city to make it livable. To be critical of the contemporary, overcongested, polluted, fossil fuel dependent metropolis, and to seek radical alternatives to it, however, is obviously not equivalent to being against any and all urban forms or urbanity, in general. To accuse a powerful Marxist writer like Davis, who has always been solidly on the side of the working class and the poor, of being "elitist," is to say the least, misdirected. The difference between these two schools is not that the "MetroMarxism" and "Dialectical Urbanism" championed by Merrifield and co. is populist, while mega-urban critics like Davis are elitist. Rather, the former are reformist, Davis and his co-thinkers, revolutionary. It is reformist, in the tradition of Edward Bernstein and Martynov, to argue that local (at their largest, citywide) groups of poor and workers can reform, piece by piece, existing institutions like the metropolis for the better, while leaving their fundamental contours in place. It is revolutionary, as Davis insists upon pointing out time and time again, in the tradition of Marx and Engels, Luxemburg, and Lenin, to insist that all such capitalist institutions are contradictory, crisis-bound, and in need of fundamental transformation, and that this must be done by an organized, conscious, global, socialist working class movement. Davis should be congratulated, not racist-baited, for keeping the latter revolutionary tradition alive today..--[[User:|Tomsword]] 4 December 2007
The article as drafted included a sentence claiming that a Salon article had cited 'several' people accusing Davis of making up facts, 'including' a realtor and a journalist. On reviewing the Salon article, I found just one such person - the realtor, whose case was then 'taken up by' (Salon wording) the journalist cited. This is a pretty sneaky piece of weasel wording - deliberately misrepresenting an article which was already weasel-worded, in that none of the rest of the criticisms of Davis made in the article were in any way substantive, merely interpretive - and I have fixed the sentence to reflect what the article actually said, as opposed to what the WP contributor seems to have wanted it to say. Lexo ( talk) 23:01, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
As other posts before on this page have said, it seems like the Criticisms and reviews section might be a bit unbalanced. As written the article provides very little support for Davis' views while quoting many people who disagree with them. Also, I'm concerned that some of the quotes might not contradict this: "Try not to quote directly from participants engaged in a heated dispute; instead, summarize and present the arguments in an impartial tone." This might be a problem with [WP:UNDUE].
Also, there seem to be some weasel words here that could be a problem with [WP:AVOID]. The section uses alleged, however, and allegation. I dont know if including the 'attacks' by Jacobs on Mumford are an appropriate introduction to Merrifield's 'attacks' on Davis. Also, the phrasing that Stannard has 'argued for the defense' is appropriate in the context it's used here. Svenna ( talk) 15:14, 23 March 2010 (UTC)
I'd have to agree the Criticism section is poorly written and quite frankly is larger in scale compared to the rest of the article. It reads like a TMZ listicle. Overhere2000 ( talk) 01:49, 12 February 2014 (UTC)
I am a socialist myself and love Mike Davis's stuff. I don't see any problems, however, with the section on Critiques and reviews. The general tone of the paragraph is accurate: it is expected that a hefty socialist writer will be attacked. I have added a few sentences summing up and will remove the neutrality warning. Bdubay ( talk) 06:12, 9 March 2012 (UTC)
I suggest title "Mike Davis - Scholar" be changed to "Mike Davis - Writer and Political Activist" -- more accurate and recognizable. not all of his writing is scholarly, and his work as a political activist is significant -- among both fans and critics. Jonwiener ( talk) 05:37, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
--- Another reason for this change is that there is a famous (within the field) neurobiology scholar named Mike Davis, who studies the fear circuitry in the brain. I googled "Mike Davis Fear" and because this person wrote a book with the word "fear" in the title, I was brought here. http://med.emory.edu/facultyprofiles/profile_research.cfm?id=1688 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 132.183.4.6 ( talk) 18:47, 16 October 2013 (UTC)
He is a self-defined international socialist and "Marxist-Environmentalist" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.79.143.139 ( talk) 11:33, 21 December 2014 (UTC)
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The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 16:37, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
I regretfully did not disclose this earlier with respect to my major contributions to the article, but I may have a personal connection with the subject of the article (not a financial or professional connection in any way). I have mainly been sticking to the Biography section and re-organizing the references. As far as I am aware, conflicted editors are strongly discouraged to edit but not prohibited (Please inform me if I am wrong!). If any arbitrators desire to revert my additions, I am fine with that. I have been trying to maintain a neutral standpoint (please review my contributions and correct them if you believe they are biased) and source all of my edits.
(I accidentally deleted an earlier version of this comment when I pasted the connections template at the top of the page) Toyonbro ( talk) 18:46, 31 October 2022 (UTC)
![]() | The following Wikipedia contributor has declared a personal or professional connection to the subject of this article. Relevant policies and guidelines may include conflict of interest, autobiography, and neutral point of view. |
![]() | A news item involving Mike Davis (scholar) was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the In the news section on 30 October 2022. | ![]() |
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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An important issue in Ecology of Fear was that of fires... now that LA is on fire (well, part of it...) and some controversial hypotheses by Davis seem to have just come true, shouldn't this entry be updated?-- 213.140.21.227 08:34, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
I find this article far too subjective and critical of its subject. By including quotes from such a questionable and low grade source as the 'New Times' i feel that the work of Mike Davis is being completely undermined. Please refer to writings including that of Nation contributor Jon Wiener which address the issue of Davis' credibility. Because Davis is a prominent left-wing thinker, he has been the subject of a ridiculous campaign to mar both his sense of honesty and intellectual validity. Opinions such as that currently expressed in this article are heavily biased and distract from the importance of Davis' work.
The reason that 'New Times LA' is defunct is because they offerred poor factually unsupported criticisms. Anyone can critique a person for being a liberal or a conservative, but to me an effective critique of a writer is an effective critique of his books, and thus far I have failed to see an effective negative critique of the books written by Dr. Mike Davis. On the other hand I have seen multiple praise of the books by Dr. Davis by such non-defunct organizations as Kirkus Reviews, San Francisco Chronicle and The Nation.
Commodore Sloat makes a good point that there is two sided debate regarding Davis' veracity. The Los Angeles trilogy has been shown to contain factual errors, as well as a politically biased theme. Davis is a self-avowed Marxist and his work regards the inequities of Los Angeles real estate politics. The debate itself deserves mention so those reading Davis' work are aware that it is political in nature and is not uniformly acknowledged. While Westwater's work is also not above critism the Salon article linked in the biography provides a useful counterpoint. Pchoate 18:45, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
I'm not so worried about Westwater or Stewart, but the NPOV of this article regarding Davis' work as a scholar. "Literary flair" and "hyperbole" are understatements, his reporting selectively supports his thesis, and contains well established overstatements and logical fallacies. Davis makes minimal effort to balance his arguments or present them in a larger context and thus are more political than scientific. His work certainly is eye-opening and interesting, but his books are classic examples of confirmation bias. Regards - Pchoate 16:53, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
I guess I have a problem with the level of hyperbole in his writing. I do find several references confirming academic acceptance of his work. The Nation Radical Urban Theory Pchoate 23:01, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
Angotti's and other detractors' criticisms of Davis's alleged "anti-urbanism" are without foundation. The pejorative "anti-urban" was often used by centrist, pro-metropolitan, pro-market capitalist writers in the 1960s--authors such as Jane Jacobs, in the introduction to her The Death and Life of Great American Cities and Morton White and his wife Lucia White, in their The Intellectual vs. the City, so as to demagogically dismiss as "suburbany," (Jacobs) "patrician," and/or "pastoralist" (the Whites), the powerful criticisms of the unsustainability of the big city form, made by such authors as Davis, Lewis Mumford, Garrett Eckbo, all the way back to Marx and Engels themselves, and their proposals for decentralization. Angotti, Andy Merrifield, and Marshall Berman, from a left-liberal standpoint, today follow in the footsteps of Jane Jacobs and the Whites, in detracting critics of the metropolis like Davis and Mumford. The implication, which Angotti makes explicit, is that such "anti-urban" writers are actually indifferent or hostile to the plight of the poor and the workers who happen now to LIVE in these cities--as if they CHOSE to live in these "slums," as if to call them "slums" and decry the poor conditions under which the poor live there, was an insult to them, rather than an analysis which might serve toward their liberation from those conditions. In addition, these "metropolitans" brand the "anti-urbanists" insufficiently cognizant of the capacity of the lower classes to somehow reform the big city to make it livable. To be critical of the contemporary, overcongested, polluted, fossil fuel dependent metropolis, and to seek radical alternatives to it, however, is obviously not equivalent to being against any and all urban forms or urbanity, in general. To accuse a powerful Marxist writer like Davis, who has always been solidly on the side of the working class and the poor, of being "elitist," is to say the least, misdirected. The difference between these two schools is not that the "MetroMarxism" and "Dialectical Urbanism" championed by Merrifield and co. is populist, while mega-urban critics like Davis are elitist. Rather, the former are reformist, Davis and his co-thinkers, revolutionary. It is reformist, in the tradition of Edward Bernstein and Martynov, to argue that local (at their largest, citywide) groups of poor and workers can reform, piece by piece, existing institutions like the metropolis for the better, while leaving their fundamental contours in place. It is revolutionary, as Davis insists upon pointing out time and time again, in the tradition of Marx and Engels, Luxemburg, and Lenin, to insist that all such capitalist institutions are contradictory, crisis-bound, and in need of fundamental transformation, and that this must be done by an organized, conscious, global, socialist working class movement. Davis should be congratulated, not racist-baited, for keeping the latter revolutionary tradition alive today..--[[User:|Tomsword]] 4 December 2007
The article as drafted included a sentence claiming that a Salon article had cited 'several' people accusing Davis of making up facts, 'including' a realtor and a journalist. On reviewing the Salon article, I found just one such person - the realtor, whose case was then 'taken up by' (Salon wording) the journalist cited. This is a pretty sneaky piece of weasel wording - deliberately misrepresenting an article which was already weasel-worded, in that none of the rest of the criticisms of Davis made in the article were in any way substantive, merely interpretive - and I have fixed the sentence to reflect what the article actually said, as opposed to what the WP contributor seems to have wanted it to say. Lexo ( talk) 23:01, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
As other posts before on this page have said, it seems like the Criticisms and reviews section might be a bit unbalanced. As written the article provides very little support for Davis' views while quoting many people who disagree with them. Also, I'm concerned that some of the quotes might not contradict this: "Try not to quote directly from participants engaged in a heated dispute; instead, summarize and present the arguments in an impartial tone." This might be a problem with [WP:UNDUE].
Also, there seem to be some weasel words here that could be a problem with [WP:AVOID]. The section uses alleged, however, and allegation. I dont know if including the 'attacks' by Jacobs on Mumford are an appropriate introduction to Merrifield's 'attacks' on Davis. Also, the phrasing that Stannard has 'argued for the defense' is appropriate in the context it's used here. Svenna ( talk) 15:14, 23 March 2010 (UTC)
I'd have to agree the Criticism section is poorly written and quite frankly is larger in scale compared to the rest of the article. It reads like a TMZ listicle. Overhere2000 ( talk) 01:49, 12 February 2014 (UTC)
I am a socialist myself and love Mike Davis's stuff. I don't see any problems, however, with the section on Critiques and reviews. The general tone of the paragraph is accurate: it is expected that a hefty socialist writer will be attacked. I have added a few sentences summing up and will remove the neutrality warning. Bdubay ( talk) 06:12, 9 March 2012 (UTC)
I suggest title "Mike Davis - Scholar" be changed to "Mike Davis - Writer and Political Activist" -- more accurate and recognizable. not all of his writing is scholarly, and his work as a political activist is significant -- among both fans and critics. Jonwiener ( talk) 05:37, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
--- Another reason for this change is that there is a famous (within the field) neurobiology scholar named Mike Davis, who studies the fear circuitry in the brain. I googled "Mike Davis Fear" and because this person wrote a book with the word "fear" in the title, I was brought here. http://med.emory.edu/facultyprofiles/profile_research.cfm?id=1688 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 132.183.4.6 ( talk) 18:47, 16 October 2013 (UTC)
He is a self-defined international socialist and "Marxist-Environmentalist" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.79.143.139 ( talk) 11:33, 21 December 2014 (UTC)
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The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 16:37, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
I regretfully did not disclose this earlier with respect to my major contributions to the article, but I may have a personal connection with the subject of the article (not a financial or professional connection in any way). I have mainly been sticking to the Biography section and re-organizing the references. As far as I am aware, conflicted editors are strongly discouraged to edit but not prohibited (Please inform me if I am wrong!). If any arbitrators desire to revert my additions, I am fine with that. I have been trying to maintain a neutral standpoint (please review my contributions and correct them if you believe they are biased) and source all of my edits.
(I accidentally deleted an earlier version of this comment when I pasted the connections template at the top of the page) Toyonbro ( talk) 18:46, 31 October 2022 (UTC)