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Is there any particular reason why "xtontic" (as in, the radiation) is spelled this way, and not with a E? Was it ever written down in the episode, or are we just guessing with the spelling? Assuming the latter, do you think we could change it so that it reads extonic? It's far more aesthetically pleasing this way, and looks much less "made up." Achtungalison ( talk) 01:31, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
The ref name says "rtaprilfoolsday". is this vandalism? I don't understand. General Staal ( talk) 19:07, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
I've noticed the synopsis for this episode repeats itself - my guess is that more than one person has tried to edit the page without reading what went before. I don't consider myself knowledgeable enough to edit it, but can someone please change this to suit some form of proper guideline?
Pianoabuser ( talk) 11:36, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
It'll be padded out after broadcast anyway. Digifiend ( talk) 13:25, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
There are instances of both spellings in various dr who articles, i only noticed because the Hobbes spelling was used in a tv guide and i looked up the actor ( David Troughton) and it shows the Hobbs spelling there. Is there any canon to cite (script for the episode) or was the name never written down ?
PS i dont like/care about dr who so i wont be fixing this but i thought someone might want to. I'm not usually given to such impish behaviour, being a dragon myself. Machete97 ( talk) 21:47, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
Is it worth noting that this is the first episode not to feature the TARDIS, either in the episode or the following trailer? - Weebiloobil ( talk) 18:58, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
It happened in the classic series ( Genesis of the Daleks) 86.154.185.86 ( talk) 19:09, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
See [1] 86.154.185.86 ( talk) 19:45, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
Were I more of an anorak I'd've identified that Eurovision song =)
Since this has been fleshed out post-broadcast, it seems good enough for Start-class to me. Any disagreements? KermMartian ( talk) 00:53, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
I'm sure that over the closing scenes of this episode they had Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata playing in the background, possible as a reference to the title of the episode/idea of Midnight as a planet what with the intense light - can anyone confirm? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Winterspell ( talk • contribs) 10:00, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
This is not the first time the Doctor has gone on holiday to a leisure planet. The fourth Doctor went to The Leisure Hive. Are there any other? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jrmh ( talk • contribs) 11:27, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
Is there a reason why these pages never seem to link to the episodes themselves on YouTube? -- Robinson weijman ( talk) 12:50, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
I see no point in an encyclopedia gathering a ragbag of newspaper reviews. They are all archived and are a response to, not part of, the subject under discussion. Any choice of which to quote is tweely arbitrary. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Alanconnor ( talk • contribs) 22:48, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
The Doctor also displays his habit of saying "don't do that" when his assumed accent is imitated by his companion (first seen in "Tooth and Claw") at the conclusion of this episode.
I don't think this is the reason he says "don't do that" -- it's more like Donna is reminding him of Sky and the way she repeated his words, which he doesn't want to go over. What do other people think? JustThisGuy ( talk) 14:57, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
This has now returned in the following form:
When Donna imitates the Doctor in Italian, repeating his line "molto bene", he cautions her not to do this, echoing what he has said before when Rose Tyler attempted a Scottish accent in "Tooth and Claw" and Martha Jones when she attempted to speak in Shakespearian English in "The Shakespeare Code". However he also says this because it pains him to think of someone copying him, as Sky did on the bus.
To me the second sentence completely undermines the first. Plus it's unsourced. I don't think it should be included. Pawnkingthree ( talk) 15:50, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
I think this is stretching it a bit - I !vote remove that passage. ╟─ TreasuryTag ( talk ╬ contribs)─╢ 18:46, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
This bit is a statement of fact, and I believe, relevant. Why would we ignore an obvious reference to previous episodes in this case? I would simply write:
When Donna imitates the Doctor in Italian, repeating his line "molto bene", he cautions her not to do this, echoing what he has said before when Rose Tyler attempted a Scottish accent in "Tooth and Claw" and Martha Jones when she attempted to speak in Shakespearian English in "The Shakespeare Code".
I would end the sentence there.
69.127.144.253 ( talk) 03:18, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
I have added this item again, phrased a bit better. It's definitely the punchline of a running gag that has spanned three companions, and the fact it's used differently this time is what makes it amusing. Mezigue ( talk) 14:18, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
Right, since my edits seem to be changed/reverted, I'll start this discussion. I don't think that Rose should be at the top of the list - as the article says, she was on screen for a mere few seconds so really doesn't deserve the top spot. Also, the official listings on the BBC website ( http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00c4xjk) list her at the bottom. I'm not quite sure how the "actual broadcast" takes precedence over the official website, especially since you can't source the credits from the broadcast, but you can from the official site. ~~ [Jam] [talk] 14:57, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
(out) I see no reason why we can't just list them by alphabetical actor name, as that is the first set of data that the user will see when looking at the "guest stars" section. If we do that, then there should be little room for complaint, and it would be obvious if an actor had been moved due to favouritism. ~~ [Jam] [talk] 18:38, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
Arcayne, this has gone far enough. You, and only you, seem to be set on changing the style that this project has had consensus over for over a year now. Why are you so insistent on chaging it, just to make it "in line with other projects"? In case you havent'noticed yet; consensus is against you. So I'm asking you, please do not try to force the issue. We are not other projects. — Edokter • Talk • 22:47, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
If it's really a possibility that Doctor Who's "friend who left for another universe" is Romana, then the presumption that it's a reference to Rose fails and the reference should be removed. Adding the proviso that it could be a reference to Romana dilutes the focus and is not helpful. If we're only sure that Rose is mentioned once (when he mentions her by name) then we should only mention that. The "friend who left for another universe" could be dealt with on its own, by remarking on the fate of both Romana and Rose. -- Anticipation of a New Lover's Arrival, The 16:26, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
I think basic common sense means it's Rose. As we all know, I'm sure! ╟─ TreasuryTag ( talk ╬ contribs)─╢ 08:13, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
Is this reference even notable enough to include? To me, it looks too much like fancruft... and I'm a fan! — Edokter • Talk • 17:03, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
Isn't the current infobox picture pretty much giving away the ending? I know we have plot spoilers in the main text of the article, but someone who doesn't want to know the outcome of the episode before they've seen it would obviously steer clear of this information. It's hard to do that when the scene itself is clearly shown at the top of the article. ~~ Peteb16 ( talk) 22:34, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
Sorry about this. Nothing to do with the article. I've thought about this episode for nearly a week in a very eventful life, and what I find most extraordinary about it is that, following an unapologetically superb two-episode blockbuster from the great writer, Steven Moffat, this episode set in a tin can surrounded by vacuum managed to become the story that really got under my skin. This was a classic science fiction short story, there was nothing about the situation that required Doctor Who to be Doctor Who--he could be any confident and self-assured person with professional skills lifted out of his normal environment. Steven Moffat wrote a memorable and wonderful story that I will come back to again and again. Russell Davies wrote a story that makes me hope that, when he stops producing the series, he will at least consider writing for it. They're both great writers and I'm so glad they've both written for Doctor Who. -- Anticipation of a New Lover's Arrival, The 00:21, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
I moved this to the bottom of the list. A couple of seconds mouthing silently on a video monitor is barely a "guest star" role. It's basically a trailer, and about as significant as the words "Bad Wolf" scrawled on the TARDIS by a graffiti artist in the first series. -- Anticipation of a New Lover's Arrival, The 00:29, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
The inclusion of part of this poem shows the latest in a long line of outside references in DW, something that makes the show so characteristic and identifiable across generations. These references, when explicit (which this is), are notable in their episode's articles. U-Mos ( talk) 18:41, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
Outside references
The episode contains a quote from Christina Rossetti's poem Goblin Market, spoken by Dee Dee in analysis of Sky's condition. [1] [2]
- ^ Midnight - LiveJournal
- ^ Quotes from Midnight - TV.com
(Copy blockquoted above to aid neutral assessment.) — Athaenara ✉ 20:00, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
In response to the listing of this discussion at Third Opinion, I have reviewed the edits in question. As I am pretty unfamiliar with the topic, I looked at the style guide in the WikiProject. I have also sampled a few episode articles to look for consensus on the inclusion of this level of detail in episode articles. My sampling did not show many articles to include sections of outside references, while the style guide was silent on the topic.
I don't believe that its inclusion in this article as a seperate section adds anything to the understanding of the subject. I believe that if the mention were incorporated into the Plot section, it could demonstrate more about the situation as it was occuring in the episode. Perhaps a discussion about how to incorporate mentioning the poem into the plot summary would be more appropriate then a new section containing a single reference? Jim Miller ( talk) 14:42, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
::I think the mention is better left to the production section. As it isn't actually attributed in the plot, but rather observed as such by reviewers after the fact, it isn't really a good fit. -
Arcayne
(cast a spell)
21:08, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
- I was thinking about how best to include the poem reference, so I decided to look at the citation for the poem's inclusion a bit closer. You might want to do so as well, since it appears that anyone can sign up for a TV.com account (I signed up as user BlatantExample in less than three minutes); I almost added a mostly spitballed reference comparing Donna to the Virgin Mary and the Doctor's severed hand being in reality the invisible hand that Adam Smith refers to in The Wealth of Nations. I only didn't because I don't need to vandalize another website to point out its weaknesses here. With respect to U-Mos, we haven't the foggiest as to who added the reference, but I am willing to lay pretty good odds that it wasn't the good folk at BBC - if it had, it would have been a part of the press release, or deserving of a mention in Doctor Who Confidential. As the provenance of the source is debatable, neither it nor the attendant statements can be included.
OK, then we'll lost the citations. They were only there as extra; the poem's use was literally cited within the episode, and so an external citation is not required. U-Mos ( talk) 11:05, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
It's mentioned in the "Fear Forecast" for the episode on the BBC website here. "Dee Dee recites a poem about Goblin Men." Pawnkingthree ( talk) 13:13, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
It's mentioned here that a certain point figures in the "series finale."
I understand that British English prefers, e.g., "fourth series" where American English prefers, e.g., "fourth season", but would it be possible to clarify whether this is meant to imply the finale of series four, or a finale that has yet to be written? Samer ( talk) 04:02, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
The artcile describes Sky as "recuperating from the end of her marriage". I have only seen the episode once, but didn't Sky refer to her ex as "she" when talking to the Doctor? If so, I think that is notable as the first (?) appearance of a lesbian in Dr Who. Timb66 ( talk) 03:17, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
Are they in a minibus or a plane or what? I can't work it out but I think they are in a minibus.
It's definitely spelled Kane in the closing credits. Most likely a mistake in the production office, but we'd need a citation to overrule the fundamental source. (It might be intentional, a difference in custom in this future/alien society. Male and female spellings differ for instance.) I think what's on the final production trumps whatever's on the shooting script. It's 'Cane' in subtitles on Doctor Who Confidential, but that's even further from the source. Perhaps the 'Radio Times listing might help. (But if we're in the business of correcting what appeared quite clearly on screen then we could start with the title of The Silurians.) But we really need DWM relaying a response from the production office that it's really Cane. Or perhaps the spelling in some official Gary Russell book. Klippa ( talk) 21:07, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
Salford University did a theatrical adaptation of this episode. Does anyone think that's interesting enough to be noted in the article? https://youtube.com/watch?v=UEsFeRZjPh4 Critterkeeper ( talk) 20:39, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
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This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Midnight (Doctor Who) article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
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Is there any particular reason why "xtontic" (as in, the radiation) is spelled this way, and not with a E? Was it ever written down in the episode, or are we just guessing with the spelling? Assuming the latter, do you think we could change it so that it reads extonic? It's far more aesthetically pleasing this way, and looks much less "made up." Achtungalison ( talk) 01:31, 2 October 2008 (UTC)
The ref name says "rtaprilfoolsday". is this vandalism? I don't understand. General Staal ( talk) 19:07, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
I've noticed the synopsis for this episode repeats itself - my guess is that more than one person has tried to edit the page without reading what went before. I don't consider myself knowledgeable enough to edit it, but can someone please change this to suit some form of proper guideline?
Pianoabuser ( talk) 11:36, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
It'll be padded out after broadcast anyway. Digifiend ( talk) 13:25, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
There are instances of both spellings in various dr who articles, i only noticed because the Hobbes spelling was used in a tv guide and i looked up the actor ( David Troughton) and it shows the Hobbs spelling there. Is there any canon to cite (script for the episode) or was the name never written down ?
PS i dont like/care about dr who so i wont be fixing this but i thought someone might want to. I'm not usually given to such impish behaviour, being a dragon myself. Machete97 ( talk) 21:47, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
Is it worth noting that this is the first episode not to feature the TARDIS, either in the episode or the following trailer? - Weebiloobil ( talk) 18:58, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
It happened in the classic series ( Genesis of the Daleks) 86.154.185.86 ( talk) 19:09, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
See [1] 86.154.185.86 ( talk) 19:45, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
Were I more of an anorak I'd've identified that Eurovision song =)
Since this has been fleshed out post-broadcast, it seems good enough for Start-class to me. Any disagreements? KermMartian ( talk) 00:53, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
I'm sure that over the closing scenes of this episode they had Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata playing in the background, possible as a reference to the title of the episode/idea of Midnight as a planet what with the intense light - can anyone confirm? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Winterspell ( talk • contribs) 10:00, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
This is not the first time the Doctor has gone on holiday to a leisure planet. The fourth Doctor went to The Leisure Hive. Are there any other? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jrmh ( talk • contribs) 11:27, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
Is there a reason why these pages never seem to link to the episodes themselves on YouTube? -- Robinson weijman ( talk) 12:50, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
I see no point in an encyclopedia gathering a ragbag of newspaper reviews. They are all archived and are a response to, not part of, the subject under discussion. Any choice of which to quote is tweely arbitrary. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Alanconnor ( talk • contribs) 22:48, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
The Doctor also displays his habit of saying "don't do that" when his assumed accent is imitated by his companion (first seen in "Tooth and Claw") at the conclusion of this episode.
I don't think this is the reason he says "don't do that" -- it's more like Donna is reminding him of Sky and the way she repeated his words, which he doesn't want to go over. What do other people think? JustThisGuy ( talk) 14:57, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
This has now returned in the following form:
When Donna imitates the Doctor in Italian, repeating his line "molto bene", he cautions her not to do this, echoing what he has said before when Rose Tyler attempted a Scottish accent in "Tooth and Claw" and Martha Jones when she attempted to speak in Shakespearian English in "The Shakespeare Code". However he also says this because it pains him to think of someone copying him, as Sky did on the bus.
To me the second sentence completely undermines the first. Plus it's unsourced. I don't think it should be included. Pawnkingthree ( talk) 15:50, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
I think this is stretching it a bit - I !vote remove that passage. ╟─ TreasuryTag ( talk ╬ contribs)─╢ 18:46, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
This bit is a statement of fact, and I believe, relevant. Why would we ignore an obvious reference to previous episodes in this case? I would simply write:
When Donna imitates the Doctor in Italian, repeating his line "molto bene", he cautions her not to do this, echoing what he has said before when Rose Tyler attempted a Scottish accent in "Tooth and Claw" and Martha Jones when she attempted to speak in Shakespearian English in "The Shakespeare Code".
I would end the sentence there.
69.127.144.253 ( talk) 03:18, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
I have added this item again, phrased a bit better. It's definitely the punchline of a running gag that has spanned three companions, and the fact it's used differently this time is what makes it amusing. Mezigue ( talk) 14:18, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
Right, since my edits seem to be changed/reverted, I'll start this discussion. I don't think that Rose should be at the top of the list - as the article says, she was on screen for a mere few seconds so really doesn't deserve the top spot. Also, the official listings on the BBC website ( http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00c4xjk) list her at the bottom. I'm not quite sure how the "actual broadcast" takes precedence over the official website, especially since you can't source the credits from the broadcast, but you can from the official site. ~~ [Jam] [talk] 14:57, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
(out) I see no reason why we can't just list them by alphabetical actor name, as that is the first set of data that the user will see when looking at the "guest stars" section. If we do that, then there should be little room for complaint, and it would be obvious if an actor had been moved due to favouritism. ~~ [Jam] [talk] 18:38, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
Arcayne, this has gone far enough. You, and only you, seem to be set on changing the style that this project has had consensus over for over a year now. Why are you so insistent on chaging it, just to make it "in line with other projects"? In case you havent'noticed yet; consensus is against you. So I'm asking you, please do not try to force the issue. We are not other projects. — Edokter • Talk • 22:47, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
If it's really a possibility that Doctor Who's "friend who left for another universe" is Romana, then the presumption that it's a reference to Rose fails and the reference should be removed. Adding the proviso that it could be a reference to Romana dilutes the focus and is not helpful. If we're only sure that Rose is mentioned once (when he mentions her by name) then we should only mention that. The "friend who left for another universe" could be dealt with on its own, by remarking on the fate of both Romana and Rose. -- Anticipation of a New Lover's Arrival, The 16:26, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
I think basic common sense means it's Rose. As we all know, I'm sure! ╟─ TreasuryTag ( talk ╬ contribs)─╢ 08:13, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
Is this reference even notable enough to include? To me, it looks too much like fancruft... and I'm a fan! — Edokter • Talk • 17:03, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
Isn't the current infobox picture pretty much giving away the ending? I know we have plot spoilers in the main text of the article, but someone who doesn't want to know the outcome of the episode before they've seen it would obviously steer clear of this information. It's hard to do that when the scene itself is clearly shown at the top of the article. ~~ Peteb16 ( talk) 22:34, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
Sorry about this. Nothing to do with the article. I've thought about this episode for nearly a week in a very eventful life, and what I find most extraordinary about it is that, following an unapologetically superb two-episode blockbuster from the great writer, Steven Moffat, this episode set in a tin can surrounded by vacuum managed to become the story that really got under my skin. This was a classic science fiction short story, there was nothing about the situation that required Doctor Who to be Doctor Who--he could be any confident and self-assured person with professional skills lifted out of his normal environment. Steven Moffat wrote a memorable and wonderful story that I will come back to again and again. Russell Davies wrote a story that makes me hope that, when he stops producing the series, he will at least consider writing for it. They're both great writers and I'm so glad they've both written for Doctor Who. -- Anticipation of a New Lover's Arrival, The 00:21, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
I moved this to the bottom of the list. A couple of seconds mouthing silently on a video monitor is barely a "guest star" role. It's basically a trailer, and about as significant as the words "Bad Wolf" scrawled on the TARDIS by a graffiti artist in the first series. -- Anticipation of a New Lover's Arrival, The 00:29, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
The inclusion of part of this poem shows the latest in a long line of outside references in DW, something that makes the show so characteristic and identifiable across generations. These references, when explicit (which this is), are notable in their episode's articles. U-Mos ( talk) 18:41, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
Outside references
The episode contains a quote from Christina Rossetti's poem Goblin Market, spoken by Dee Dee in analysis of Sky's condition. [1] [2]
- ^ Midnight - LiveJournal
- ^ Quotes from Midnight - TV.com
(Copy blockquoted above to aid neutral assessment.) — Athaenara ✉ 20:00, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
In response to the listing of this discussion at Third Opinion, I have reviewed the edits in question. As I am pretty unfamiliar with the topic, I looked at the style guide in the WikiProject. I have also sampled a few episode articles to look for consensus on the inclusion of this level of detail in episode articles. My sampling did not show many articles to include sections of outside references, while the style guide was silent on the topic.
I don't believe that its inclusion in this article as a seperate section adds anything to the understanding of the subject. I believe that if the mention were incorporated into the Plot section, it could demonstrate more about the situation as it was occuring in the episode. Perhaps a discussion about how to incorporate mentioning the poem into the plot summary would be more appropriate then a new section containing a single reference? Jim Miller ( talk) 14:42, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
::I think the mention is better left to the production section. As it isn't actually attributed in the plot, but rather observed as such by reviewers after the fact, it isn't really a good fit. -
Arcayne
(cast a spell)
21:08, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
- I was thinking about how best to include the poem reference, so I decided to look at the citation for the poem's inclusion a bit closer. You might want to do so as well, since it appears that anyone can sign up for a TV.com account (I signed up as user BlatantExample in less than three minutes); I almost added a mostly spitballed reference comparing Donna to the Virgin Mary and the Doctor's severed hand being in reality the invisible hand that Adam Smith refers to in The Wealth of Nations. I only didn't because I don't need to vandalize another website to point out its weaknesses here. With respect to U-Mos, we haven't the foggiest as to who added the reference, but I am willing to lay pretty good odds that it wasn't the good folk at BBC - if it had, it would have been a part of the press release, or deserving of a mention in Doctor Who Confidential. As the provenance of the source is debatable, neither it nor the attendant statements can be included.
OK, then we'll lost the citations. They were only there as extra; the poem's use was literally cited within the episode, and so an external citation is not required. U-Mos ( talk) 11:05, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
It's mentioned in the "Fear Forecast" for the episode on the BBC website here. "Dee Dee recites a poem about Goblin Men." Pawnkingthree ( talk) 13:13, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
It's mentioned here that a certain point figures in the "series finale."
I understand that British English prefers, e.g., "fourth series" where American English prefers, e.g., "fourth season", but would it be possible to clarify whether this is meant to imply the finale of series four, or a finale that has yet to be written? Samer ( talk) 04:02, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
The artcile describes Sky as "recuperating from the end of her marriage". I have only seen the episode once, but didn't Sky refer to her ex as "she" when talking to the Doctor? If so, I think that is notable as the first (?) appearance of a lesbian in Dr Who. Timb66 ( talk) 03:17, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
Are they in a minibus or a plane or what? I can't work it out but I think they are in a minibus.
It's definitely spelled Kane in the closing credits. Most likely a mistake in the production office, but we'd need a citation to overrule the fundamental source. (It might be intentional, a difference in custom in this future/alien society. Male and female spellings differ for instance.) I think what's on the final production trumps whatever's on the shooting script. It's 'Cane' in subtitles on Doctor Who Confidential, but that's even further from the source. Perhaps the 'Radio Times listing might help. (But if we're in the business of correcting what appeared quite clearly on screen then we could start with the title of The Silurians.) But we really need DWM relaying a response from the production office that it's really Cane. Or perhaps the spelling in some official Gary Russell book. Klippa ( talk) 21:07, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
Salford University did a theatrical adaptation of this episode. Does anyone think that's interesting enough to be noted in the article? https://youtube.com/watch?v=UEsFeRZjPh4 Critterkeeper ( talk) 20:39, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
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