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"It has been overlooked that since Michael Jackson's Death there has been a boom in the sales of web domain names which carry tribute to the singer,a total of 1200 already. The day after his death auction prices on the popular web site 'ebay.com' reached a record of $10,000,000 for single web address' which bore tribute to Jackson. Domain names such as 'ilovemichaeljackson.net', 'www.MichaelJacksonIsAlwaysInMyHeart.com','michaeljackson4ever.info' and 'michaeljacksoninmemoriam.co.uk' (which is a pun upon the famous poem by Ernest Hemingway 'In Memoriam A.H.H') have now become extremely hard to come by and are now only available on the auction site ebay.com". Till now, the website is available http://www.MichaelJacksonIsAlwaysInMyHeart.com.
Seems to be true - a lot of YouTube sites making reference to his involvement in various court cases involving child molestation and paedophilia are disappearing - I wonder if the owners of YouTube have been contacted by the Family or representatives over this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.77.76.161 ( talk) 18:05, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
"Michael Jackson is dead" seems like a very insensitive opening line. Should this be changed? Geoff ( talk) 09:49, 26 June 2009 (UTC) RIP, a true pop legend
There are tons of holes in that case, which can be easily backed up with citations. But the article only mentions a few. For example there should be a lot more about the accuser's mother, who has said many times that her husband was trying to frame Jackson for child sex abuse. How about adding some direct quotes from her?
70.209.34.218 ( talk) 05:29, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
He was promoting his concert as Michael Jackson Alanasings ( talk) 13:00, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
Michael Joseph Jackson convert to razeby in 2007, new identity is Mikaeel Jackson, correctely please.
I agree. The name is Mikaeel Jackson. Here are the sources. Please address and change the name or at least include his new name in the profile. Cat Stevens was also present.
http://www.upi.com/Entertainment_News/2008/11/21/Report-Michael-Jackson-converts-to-Islam/UPI-13801227284529/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=222t3CJ9_3w -- (Abul Hasan comments on reports that Michael Jackson has converted to Islam)
http://www.nypost.com/seven/11202008/news/nationalnews/michael_jackson_converts_to_islam_139892.htm
http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/music/2008/11/21/2008-11-21_call_him_mikaeel_michael_jackson_reporte.html
http://www.inquisitr.com/9175/michael-jackson-islam/
http://www.news.com.au/entertainment/story/0,26278,24684859-7484,00.html
http://au.news.yahoo.com/a/-/latest/5162312/michael-jackson-becomes-a-muslim-report/
http://perezhilton.com/2008-11-21-michael-jackson-is-now-a-muslim
Here is also a video of how Jermaine Jackson wanted his brother (Michael Jackson) to convert to Islam. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wzFW1D1MII
Also in Jermaine's interview at the hospital he says "And Allah be with you Michael always." Which mean Michael Jackson did convert to Islam. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/8119993.stm
The references to Jackson's patent (an image caption and a sentence in the body of the article) are absurd: they imply that the patent was issued for his leaning technique. In fact, it covers "a specially designed pair of shoes" in combination with modifications to a stage surface. Can someone please fix this (I can't edit). — Aldaron • T/ C 01:45, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
That sounds about right. You can't patent a leaning stance. You can only patent an invention. 89.101.143.74 ( talk) 10:12, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
This may disappear amidst all the recent activity, but I just noticed that under "Voice type" in the article's infobox, it says "Falsetto". There are two problems with this. First, MJ didn't only sing in falsetto; there are very few male vocalists who sing exclusively in falsetto, it's just not a natural singing style. Second, falsetto doesn't even appear in the voice types article, leading me to believe it's not technically a "voice type" (seems like more of a singing style to me). I couldn't say if he was a tenor or countertenor, but this should be fixed by someone who does know. - 68.146.211.84 ( talk) 01:45, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
His voice is that of a countertenor (being a countertenor myself). Countertenors are men with voices that normally sound like a female (without trying to or resorting to falsetto). A countertenor can be easily detected by listening to their normal speaking voice. Even if he sings falsetto on some parts (to make the sound lighter), he did hit some notes on his modal voice.
A common misconception about countertenor is that every countertenor sings in falsetto. I am classically trained and I use my full voice when singing. Falsetto might be needed in some songs parts either to add drama or to tone down volume (this is where I'm asked to use it).
And note, falsetto is NOT a voice type. It is a term used to describe how someone sings (in falsetto's case, using head tone). Everyone can sing in falsetto but not everyone is a countertenor. ~~KCQuest
Having written a paper on voice types and vocal styles, I can confirm that falsetto is not a voice type, but rather a style used to extend the top range in a way that produces a different sound that is audibly different from the "full voice". While he does use falsetto in many songs, it is not his voice type, and I agree that he would be most appropriately classified as a counter-tenor. As the original anon. poster of this talk subject is not able to edit the page, I would be more than happy to amend this in the article, provided that there is a consensus. If one is not reached, I'll attempt to find a source online to reference when making a change. So, please provide your thoughts on the matter :) Chrisch Talk 14:25, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
Voice type currently says "Falsetto, Tenor". As others have correctly pointed out, falsetto is a vocal technique not a classification of voice type (even for those singers who perform almost exclusively in falsetto, and Michael Jackson does not fall into that category). Michael Jackson did have a high natural tessitura, and it's not always obvious where his falsetto starts and stops. His unusually high speaking voice would suggest he may have been a natural countertenor. I don't think the description "tenor" could be in any way controversial, and he was at least a high tenor if not a true countertenor. Contains Mild Peril ( talk) 17:23, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
I concur that he was a countertenor, in my opinion. His range extended to near the top of the treble clef. Although his upper range didn't extend as far as that of Freddie Mercury or Bobby McFerrin, his upper range extended particularly high for a male voice.
EnglishHornDude (
talk) 04:32, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
On the morning of June 25, 2009, Jackson reportedly collapsed at a rented home in west Los Angeles. Local fire department paramedics responded to a 911 call at 12:21 pm local (Pacific) time[185] and arrived at 12:30 pm. Jackson was reportedly not breathing and CPR was quickly performed. He was reported to have just received a shot of demarol from his doctor.[186] He fell into a coma(wikilink) and died shortly after being rushed to UCLA Medical Center at around 2:26 local time.[188][187] The cause of death is reported to be cardiac arrest.[186] Although there is no evidence of criminality, Los Angeles Police Department detectives have opened an investigation into his death.[189] An autopsy is said to be scheduled for Friday, June 26, 2009.[188]
Some rephrasing. TechOutsider ( talk) 01:55, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
I agree, and I would like to see what the Sheriff has to say about whether the rented property had a full gas inspection by a Corgi Registered Company? He may have died of Carbon Monoxide poisoning, in which case the Landlord is responsible for a LOT of grief worldwide right now, as well as ruining the Tour. 79.77.76.161 ( talk) 20:52, 27 June 2009 (UTC)bubbleboy 79.77.76.161 ( talk) 20:52, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
Under the heading "1958-1975 Early life and The Jackson 5", it states Jackson was physically and mentally abused by his father... A suggestion would be to change that to "Jackson and his siblings were physically and mentally abused by their father... This would be so the reader doesn't leave this Wikipedia article thinking that only Michael was abused. In some abusive households it is true that one child may suffer but Joesph was equally firm and abusive with all his children. It's important a reader who doesn't know this won't leave with a misinterpretation of events. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.192.176.30 ( talk) 02:05, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
{{ edit protected}}
MickMacNee ( talk) 02:14, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
My responses:
Thanks, wadester 16 02:21, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
Sources:
MickMacNee ( talk) 03:18, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
Is 'afterward' rather than 'afterwards' a typo or a feature of US English? TerriersFan ( talk) 02:33, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
Okay, I'm just gonna come out and say it because somebody needs to. When somebody famous dies, especially somebody world-famous and recognizable (and even loved) by literally billions of people, the information that is presented here at Wikipedia has to be correct per the verifiable, reliable sources that are cited. It's not just about our community or our policies, it's about our readers, who come here with at least a reasonable expectation that our "reporting" of the incident will be correct, or as correct as reports we cite can be. The bouncing back and forth between having a death section, not having a death section, reporting the same thing in three sections, etc, is unnecessary and disruptive. That's the main reason this is fully protected. I am here, and am willing to update the page, as I have been; a simple request (with source!) is all that's needed for your update to be made. Right now, the article is correct per its sources, which are all notable (MSNBC, Reuters, CNN, etc). This is essentially a case of WP:IAR because it's such a big event. It's a necessity, otherwise this could turn into another Ted Kennedy/Robert Byrd report. This will all cool down by tomorrow, but for now, it needs to be correct and not unreliable. Let the crucifying begin. :-) wadester 16 02:47, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
i'm with wadester, wikipedia should be about correct information over fast information. there's more than enough sites out there pumping out rumor and blatant mything to be the first people with the story, so i fully support the admins sitting on it until a genuine confrimation. 78.16.106.3 ( talk) 03:23, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
I am OK with what you said here and previously and I withdraw my request and I see what you are saying now and agree with what was posted... although, it is 'reportedly' and, thus, may be inaccurate at this point. NiteHacker ( talk) 03:34, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
there aint no deadline so lock it until the news dies down and well know which are the best sources to use and what information is important to put in... 70.71.22.45 ( talk) 03:45, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
I think we should add that he converted to Islam.
If anything, the wording of this claim should say "Although he never confirmed it publicly, there are some reports that Michael converted to Islam later in life, although dispute remains around this claim." Clearly, since there are several sections on the discussion page debating whether sources on this item are reliable, this claim is under debate. This doesn't mean it can't be true, but it does mean that there is legetimate debate around the subject, and I think the article should acknowledge this, instead of just claiming it as fact, which it may not be.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/celebritynews/3494296/Michael-Jackson-converts-to-Islam-and-changes-name-to-Mikaeel.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1088225/Michael-Jackson-Muslim-changes-Mikaeel.html
http://www.nypost.com/seven/11202008/news/nationalnews/michael_jackson_converts_to_islam_139892.htm
Jermaine Jackson said in the press conference today "may Allah be with you always Michael" I think his conversion should be added
http://www.upi.com/Entertainment_News/2008/11/21/Report-Michael-Jackson-converts-to-Islam/UPI-13801227284529/ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=222t3CJ9_3w -- (Abul Hasan comments on reports that Michael Jackson has converted to Islam) http://www.nypost.com/seven/11202008/news/nationalnews/michael_jackson_converts_to_islam_139892.htm http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/music/2008/11/21/2008-11-21_call_him_mikaeel_michael_jackson_reporte.html http://www.inquisitr.com/9175/michael-jackson-islam/ http://www.news.com.au/entertainment/story/0,26278,24684859-7484,00.html http://au.news.yahoo.com/a/-/latest/5162312/michael-jackson-becomes-a-muslim-report/
Two separate threads on same topic going on here... see Mikaeel Jackson, not Michael Jackson above. Also before posting, search the archives for previous or past responses to this same topic! NiteHacker ( talk) 14:36, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
The lead claims he has sold 750 million albums worldwide. A quick add up here puts the sales of his top 5 selling albums at around the 200 million mark. Where did the other half billion sales come from? Is the statement even remotely supportable? -- LiamE ( talk) 03:05, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
It should probably be left... it might be right! Here's ANOTHER source that says it... [www.eonline.com/uberblog/b131173_michael_jackson_pops_thrilling_king.html]
"Jackson, whose lifetime of hits sold more than 750 million albums worldwide..." NiteHacker ( talk) 03:51, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
Seeing as there isnt a single source that breaks down his album sales that gives a figure over even 300 million (including work with the family) and Sony/michaeljackson.com say the 750 million figure is for records not albums I consider the discussion pretty much over. -- LiamE ( talk) 07:03, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
Random busy body: When totalling up his record sales, are you including the sales that he made as Jackson Five?
This section appears to be very subjective. The author draws conclusions and take sides on a issue that is so much uncertain. The statement: "The treatments he used for his condition further lighten his skin tone, and, with the application of pancake makeup to even out blotches, he could appear very pale" is followed by others arguing that Michael skin condition was a result of skin condition. This has never been proved so I suggest the following to be added:
"But the controversy surrounding his health condition continued up to may 2009 when Michael Jackson's official spokesperson, Dr. Tohme, in an effort to silence rumors declared that he was not suffering from any skin condition at all. This strengthened the argument that Michael Jackson pale appearance was a result of intentional bleaching of the skin "
This source states that Jermaine said that Michael's physician was with him at the time he collapsed in his home and tried to resuscitate him before paramedics arrived. Can anybody corroborate that with another source? That seems important (and, indeed, odd). wadester 16 03:38, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
{{ edit protected}}
Minor? Move Death section from below the musical style stuff to a H3 header in the H2 Biography section. Rationale: His birth is considered part of his 'Biography', so for simple chronological readability, his death should be too. MickMacNee ( talk) 03:44, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
I'd like to see the "Jackson died on June 25, 2009 at the age of 50." statement in the intro removed. It adds nothing. The date of death is already there. -- kittyKAY4 ( talk) 03:46, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
OK, then move it to a H2 section below the biography. MickMacNee ( talk) 03:50, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
KittyKAY4's one request does not amount to "multiple requests to remove", the article's lead is suppose to be a summery, so it should be reverted back.-- MahaPanta ( talk) 03:55, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
i dont think we need to have the date of his death mentioned in the lede... its NOT that important... 5 years from now do you think that information would still be important enough to be in the lede? 70.71.22.45 ( talk) 05:05, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
In numerous places it has been agreed that edit protection should be lowered to semi. Please do it. Mostlyharmless ( talk) 04:02, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
Open the floodgates. I do want to point out though, that just because we're admins doesn't mean good faith shouldn't still be assumed. Please see this rationale. It was a necessity. Will keep an eye here for another hour or so to see how things go. wadester 16 04:16, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
I am disappointed in the protecting admins complete lack of judgement.-- The Legendary Sky Attacker 04:23, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
I agree. Warn and block the harmful registered users and semi-unprotect the page. You'll still keep new accounts and IP editors away.-- The Legendary Sky Attacker 04:33, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
@Sky Attacker - more discrimination against IP editors? 70.71.22.45 ( talk) 05:49, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
'The entertainment site TMZ.com reported at 2:20 p.m. PDT that: "We're told when paramedics arrived Jackson had no pulse and they never got a pulse back."'
source = http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-10273277-93.html
BTW, you think Wikipedia has mistakes... how about this one, from the same site...
'He was "prounced" dead at 2:26 p.m., officials said.'
I know it may not be funny at this moment, if it isn't... sorry. NiteHacker ( talk) 04:12, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
A simple end date after his name is not acceptable for detailing the fact he has just died as a summary of this article. Read WP:LEDE. The brackets, much like an infobox, are additional to the article text, they do not replace it. MickMacNee ( talk) 04:23, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
Since you removed "the", I had to add "th", and I rearranged it to flow better.--
MahaPanta (
talk) 04:51, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
Was Michael's middle name based on the father's name Joe (Joseph)?
Is this noteworthy?
If so, there's no mention in the article about it. NiteHacker ( talk) 05:03, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
I don't know if there is a family source that directly states the connection between the middle name "Joseph" and his father. I would assume that it might be in either his autobiagrpahy Moon Walk (I tried to hyperlink to the article on the book, but the link wasn't working) or one of the autobigraphical books written by Katherine Jackson. If I had to guess, I would assume that this was a a naming convention within the Jackson family, but a guess doesn't do much for verifiability. As for notability, I don't personally think its that notable. Unless there was a major reason for the name being given to him. To summerize, as in Isaac Asimov "What's in a name?" Wolfpeaceful ( talk) 17:25, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
The lead is an abstract/summary of the article. It does not matter how many times his death is meantioned elsewhere, the lead must be able to stand alone. It's entire purpose is so that someone browsing articles can read it instead of the entire article. Then if they want to know more, they can read the rest of the article. That also means anything mentioned in it should be considered the first time it is mentioned.
We are also suppose to refrain from using words like died.--
MahaPanta (
talk) 05:05, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
"The word "died" is religiously neutral, and neither crude nor vulgar." - according to the page above. NiteHacker ( talk) 05:23, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
if you're lucky enough (like me) not to be an admin, the note you get when you edit the page seems a bit odd... it says something like 'Admins! Yes You! Don't edit this! - I figure someone would know how to fix that up? :-) Privatemusings ( talk) 05:08, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
I've reinstated material wrongly deleted about the ADL controversy over the song "They don't Care About Us". VsevolodKrolikov ( talk) 05:14, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
This section is very misleading: "The ADL complained and Jackson responded by saying he would re-record the lyrics before the album went into production. However the ADL's press release charged that Jackson had performed the song live and included the lyrics in question during the live performance." This implies that the song was never released with the infamous lyrics, when in fact those were present in an entire first run of the album- millions of copies were sold (including my own) before the controversy arose.
Perhaps there is a problem with the age listed in the introduction. Other articles in the encyclopedia state he began in the Jackson 5 at the age of 8. 76.191.132.155 ( talk) 05:21, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
Can someone please add Michael Jackson's religion to the article, there is nothing about it. Please do not ignore this, it will be added sooner or later, do not try to manipulate the article. Truth first.
He converted to Islam in November 2008 and confirmed it. His brother Jermaine and his sister have been Muslim for a long time.
His brother said may Allah be with you always
94.97.104.168 (
talk) 08:54, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
Here is the source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/8119993.stm Listen to the end of the clip where Jermaine says "May Allah be wth you". As he respects his religion he says "May Allah be with you".
Please add that there is possibility that Michael Jackson was a Muslim, there are also other sources that claims it, if you google it you will see that other newspapers have written it, and it's possible for him to have become Muslim, since he has been living in the Middle-East and gotten close to the Muslim culture.
This article looks like a record company wrote it. Please add it or this article will be marked as unilateral/biased. This reminds me of the Scientology section...
Don't be absurd. There isn't the slightest shred of evidence that Michael was Muslim, and the fact that a couple of his siblings converted to it (from Jehovah's Witnesses, if I remember correctly) has no bearing on Michael's own beliefs. Did anyone ever snap a picture of MJ praying to Mecca? Did he ever say he was Islamic, or seem to abide by any of the strictures? No.
Absolutely. I was being a bit facetious. Similarly, I would say that if Michael ever *had* become Islamic, his brother Jermaine would have shouted it from the roof-tops. In interviews Jermaine has said he wished Michael would convert, so if he managed it, he'd have been holding press conferences:-) But that's not evidence. http://www.entertainmentwise.com/news/27346/jermaine-jackson-wants-to-convert
--Verifiability is essential. And it is incorrect to assume that simply because his brother converted to Islam, that he did also. E.g. My sister is Christian, and I am Wiccan. She says "God Bless You" to me, but does that make me Christian? No it does not. And also, yes, a picture would be relatively meaningless. The photo would only verify the visual medium, but not fully explain what it is taking place in the picture. E.g. I attend church sometimes with my friends, out of respect. If someone took a photo of me reading a Bible in a church, they might assume (incorrectly) that I was Christian. There might even be a caption included "wolfpeaceful converts to Christianity." But this would be wrong. 208.119.72.6 ( talk) 17:39, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
shouldnt ==death== be further down? like before the ==legacy and influence== section instead of before ==musical style and performance==? i tried to move it but one too many edit conflicts. i dont deal well with frustration. badmachine ( talk) 05:45, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
Should it not be time to actually install a reputable, up-to-date photo? One which actually shows what Michael Jackson looked like before he died? Crazy Eddy ( talk) 05:51, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
We can discuss this when the facts of the case are clearer, but at this point it remains uncertain whether Jackson's death will warrant an article in the future, so there's no need to have a debate. Dekimasu よ! 07:09, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
In a few days I suggest that the death of Michael Jackson should receive a page of it's own. This event is incredibly immense. Here are some examples: Example 1, Example 2, Example 3, Example 4, Example 5, Example 6, Example 7, - Mdriver1981 ( talk) 06:12, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
When Coroners' report is available, it will list all the drugs found in the toxicology report - we've already had them printed in the UK, but unconfirmed. A cursory glance of this list does tend to indicate he would have been hopelessly addicted to them - highly unsafe co-administrations - will post a list along with Pharmacological information on side effects when I can, as I think this will be of wide interest, but once you have a cause of death, dont see you need anything more, apart from coverage of funral —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.77.76.161 ( talk) 18:16, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
As suggested elsewhere on this discussion page, a new separate page on his death is absolutely necessary. There are separate pages on the death of huge personalities such as American Presidents - Reagan, Ford, Kennedy; and pop icons such as Buddy Holy. Even the Iranian girl "Neda" has a death page, although her fame arose ONLY as a result of her death.
Being an American president or world leader should not be the only qualification for a separate page; rather, it should be based on the monumental impact of the death event, the surrounding circumstances of death (as in Neda's case) and the reach of the individual's influence on popular culture while alive. These points cannot be disputed in the case of Michael Jackson, and Wikipedia already has precedents as mentioned.
Also, the fact that this forum has generated so much discussion on his death is another pointer to the need for a separate page on Jackson's death. It is immaterial that the dust is yet to settle on this monumental occurrence, as updates can be entered as events unfold. Merlin1935 ( talk) 17:16, 27 June 2009 (UTC)Merlin
Michael Jackson Broke MTV Color Barrier
More importantly, Jackson figuratively shattered the race barrier in popular culture, showing that an African-American performer could be the biggest crossover star in the world. He also single-handedly integrated MTV, which had blocked playing black artists in its regular rotation until Columbia Records threatened to pull all its videos from the channel unless they played Jackson's "Billie Jean." When MTV played it, the iconic "Billie Jean" video became an instant success, kicking the door open for a host of African-American artists, including Prince.
"[MTV] said they don't play [black artists]," Jackson told Ebony last year. "It broke my heart, but at the same time it lit something. I was saying to myself, 'I have to do something where they . . . I just refuse to be ignored."
"a suspected heart attack or cardiac arrest" is better than "a suspected cardiac arrest or heart attack" as "cardiac arrest" shouldn't take an article and "an X or Y" can mean "a Y or an X"/"Y or an X" -- Bogger ( talk) 08:31, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
Respectfully request the deletion of the detail regarding Michael Jackson's coma state. A person is generally not regarded to be in a coma if he or she is in a state of full cardiac arrest. From the news report and the LAFD 9-1-1 dispatch to Rescue/Engine 71, Michael Jackson had a respiratory arrest (he stopped breathing) which eventually caused his heart to stop. Resuscitative efforts such as CPR, intubation, defibrillation, and cardioactive drugs such as epinephrine, sodium bicarbonate, atropine, and amiodarone are artificial methods to try and trigger the heart to start back up. A person whose heart is not pumping on its own is clinically dead. A coma, on the other hand, is a condition in which a person is in deep unconsciousness due to brain insult or injury.
Had the LAFD paramedics restored a pulse on scene, (it took them 9 minutes to get on scene) in most likelihood, Michael Jackson would have had extensive brain injury perhaps leaving him in a vegetative state. According to the American Heart Association, a person's chances of surviving a cardiac arrest significantly diminishes with each minute that passes without CPR AND defibrillation. At 9 minutes, his chances of survival were well into the single digits. Brain tissue begins to die off after 4 minutes without oxygen.
There were a flurry of reports from the time the incident was reported to the time he was pronounced dead from various news sources, of which the veracity could not be verified. As it stood, a team of emergency physicians and cardiologists attempted for over an hour to restart his heart to no avail. A coma would have been a bitter victory.
"At 9 minutes, his chances of survival were well into the single digits. Brain tissue begins to die off after 4 minutes without oxygen." Isn't it possible to have put him on a breathing machine which would, thus, have provided the oxygen he needed? Otherwise, why would the doctors try for one hour to revive him? NiteHacker ( talk) 10:43, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
In the opening section: "Referred to as the "King of Pop" in subsequent years, four of his solo studio albums are among the world's best-selling records: Off the Wall (1979), Bad (1987), Dangerous (1991) and HIStory (1995), while his 1982 Thriller is the world's best-selling record of all time." strangely has no references and being the best-selling puts Thriller "among among the world's best-selling records" so it should read:
"Referred to as the " King of Pop" citation needed in subsequent years, his 1982 Thriller is the world's best-selling record of all time and four other solo studio albums are also among the world's best-selling records: Off the Wall (1979), Bad (1987), Dangerous (1991) and HIStory (1995). citation needed"--08:59, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
I understand many unreasonable users have stated the end to talks about him converting, however, it needs to be brought up again.
The recent BBC article on the death of Jackson mentions Jermaine Jackson as the OFFICIAL SPOKESPERSON of the Jackson family referring to 'Allah always being with him in the afterlife.'
IN FACT, here are the official/actual quotes:
"And Allah be with you Michael always. I love you."
PLUS LOOK AT THE VIDEO!!! HE MENTIONS MAY ALLAH BE WITH YOU MICHAEL
Here is the BBC link: BBC NEWS LINK
Please acknowledge this in the article.
P.S. Why does he need to publicly proclaim that he is Muslim?? Faith is a personal matter! I KNOW it is hard for Western users to cope with his conversion. Sad.
Thank you, Vseferović ( talk) 08:52, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
Nice defaming of religions there, people 91.142.61.4 ( talk) 11:57, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
"Where news is carried in multiple national, multi-national or global news agencies; it is taken as credible on the balance of probabilities. This is a legal test. We are not applying anything more stringent nor is this required.
This is not a test applied on other articles especially in relation to someone's faith let alone reportage.
If it should be done here then we have serious issues of bias, agenda, POV and discriminatory conduct to answer. There are now enough news media sources (NPOV) which have independently confirmed this - they do not all refer to the Sun as source material. It is not for WPs to have to interrogate news media agencies and reporters about the validity of their claims. They report, we recite, you decide.
It is for WPs to in the least reflect the common knowledge - not bias or agenda driving. Statements like "prove it or move on" are unhelpeful on WP and raise serious questions about the motivation for making such statements especially where they are backed up with disproportionate penalties for accurate article writing. Seniority does not exclude us from error or bias. Ask Dick Cheney. It is however common practice in the modern media age for most news media in the modern age to be 'echoed' across varying sources. This is how many agencies work.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1088225/Michael-Jackson-Muslim-changes-Mikaeel.html http://www.nypost.com/seven/11202008/news/nationalnews/michael_jackson_converts_to_islam_139892.htm http://www.arabianbusiness.com/539088-michael-jackson-muslim#continueArticle http://www.daily.pk/world/americas/8230-michael-jackson-has-converted-to-islam.html
Our own definition of news is: 'News is any new information or information on current events which is presented by print, broadcast, Internet, or word of mouth to a third party or mass audience. News, the reporting of current information on television and radio, and in newspapers and magazines'
Reuters and UPI work in exactly this manner. It is unusual that something so accepted in so many places requires such a debate here. Could it be that the most famous man in pop history potentially converting to Islam raises too many issues. WP does not shirk from article writing on controversial issues. We do not censor the truth. If the story is carried in multiple national or global news sources it should be, despite misgivings, relied upon and reported on if relevent. Despite us deploring them, The Sun and Fox News Corp are news media sources (and sister companies).
If you want to apply an indirectly discriminatory condition on the reporting relating to Muslims, we are on a slippery slope. Someone should give Jimmy a heads up in this case.
Amendments should be made to the article to correspond to at least that it has been reported - to the scale of the reporting. How many Muslims have confirmed to the press directly their faith? Is it something we ask Jews, Christians or any other faith group to do? NB: having recently returned from the Middle East, there is widespread acceptance of this as a matter of fact, including his building and funding of mosques and appearances publically."
This was taken from this disscusion. Talk to Magibon 15:23, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
Jermaine wanted Michael to convert to Islam, in 2007, it makes sense after reports he converted because he was influenced by his brother and he travelled to Bahrain. I think you have to take the actual person into consideration to whether he really converted and you cannot just take the words of his lawyer, how do you know exactly whether he is telling the truth or not, i think there are so many evidences which suggest he has converted, but I believe he wanted to hide his conversion for some particular reason. There should be at least a mention in the article that his brother wanted him to convert, and there were numerous new articles which stated that he did, whether this is true or not, it has to be neutral. Lets wait and see how he is buried, if in a Islamic ritual, then we must accept further that he is Muslim. [2] [3] [4] [5] DinajGao ( talk) 13:48, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
I have found another source from these articles which may indicate he has converted or may have a Muslim funeral: [6] [7] DinajGao ( talk) 10:47, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
what's THE source for " best selling album"-- Bogger ( talk) 09:40, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
New item about the cause of his death... says, according to a family attorney, that he was over-medicated... http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/06/25/entertainment/main5115503.shtml?tag=cbsnewsSectionsArea;cbsnewsSectionsArea.0 NiteHacker ( talk) 09:30, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
Well if you think its info that adheres to the wiki guidelines and should be in the article, put it in the article. This is page for discussing the article, not a RSS feed. 92.15.13.86 ( talk) 09:37, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
Too much controversy right now... so I will leave it for someone else to make the change. I don't feel qualified enough to do it myself. I know this is NOT an RSS, BUT it is a discussion page and so I am just adding to the discussion! NiteHacker ( talk) 09:52, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
Besides, I think a consensus has been made that they will wait for the results of the autopsy before adding anymore to the article about his death. NiteHacker ( talk) 10:03, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
I don't agree - this article
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/2009/06/26/world-in-shock-as-king-of-pop-and-music-icon-michael-jackson-dies-aged-50-86908-21472673/ also states he over medicated. I think it's relevent now and should be added. Does that mean that until we see his dead body, is death is also speculation???
Jacobsdad (
talk) 10:58, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
The most prudent thing to do right now would be to wait for the autopsy, although I am hearing from Fox News on TV right now that he was given morphine shortly before his death. However, that may not be the cause of his heart attack. Until the trained professional finishes with an autopsy, and the toxicology results get back, it is too early to tell why he died. -- Scouto2 ( talk) 14:21, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
This article incorrects states (under the Death part) that 50MM GBP is the equivalent to 100 MM USD. 50 MM GBP is about 82 MM USD, so it would be more correct to say 83 MM USD.
Also Demarol is one of the narcotic pain relievers that actually cause more cardiac issues then any other
Demarol gets converted to other metabolites after death - should these metabolites not be named accurately too, to avoid confusion over the actual cause of death?? 79.77.76.161 ( talk) 19:41, 27 June 2009 (UTC)DrLofthouse 79.77.76.161 ( talk) 19:41, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
The article needs a section that covers his personal life: his year and a half marriage to Lisa Marie Presley, his two children by Deborah Jeanne Rowe, and infobox references to these people.
Also, Jackson's own mother, Katherine Jackson, will care for the Jackson children, according to his lawyer. Dogru144 ( talk) 10:26, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
I said there needs to be a section. Dogru144 ( talk) 11:09, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
MickMacNee ( talk) 13:42, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
Not being rude, but what genres of music did Jackson crossover from and to? As I study the article I assume that it means the Jacksons crossed over from a black soul market to a pop/soul market. Yes/No? Whilst the term is familiar in the music business and the context is fairly clear to those in the know in a lot of the music media, I feel that it should usually be used a bit more specifically in an encyclopedia. IceDragon64 ( talk) 11:34, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
To be more accurate it was from Soul and R&B to Pop/Rock, while retaining Soul and R&B. I don't have a source, though, but I hope that answers your question. Wolfpeaceful ( talk) 18:04, 26 June 2009 (UTC) The Jackson 5 actually recorded their first album IN the town of Jackson, USA, as a Country and Western band, the first 'black pioneers' of this genre, and have their prints in the concrete outside the 'Old Oprey', where later black pioneers of this genre, like Wilson Picket, The Pips (before they joined with Martha Reeves naturally) and Tammy Wynette also made their mark. 79.77.76.161 ( talk) 21:03, 27 June 2009 (UTC)bubbleboy 79.77.76.161 ( talk) 21:03, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
Is that appropriate... shouldn't unexpectedly be dropped? NiteHacker ( talk) 12:03, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
shoudn't the time zone be incuded in the opening paragraph for overseas readers of this article?
--on it. I'll make the correction. Wolfpeaceful ( talk) 18:08, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
As of this writing, the section titled, "2008–2009: Milestones, real estate, planned return to live performance" does not have anything about a planned return to live performance in there. Either something needs to be added or the title of the section needs to be changed. 68.254.169.228 ( talk) 12:39, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
I keep seeing "(August 29, 1958 – faked death June 25, 2009)" but when I try to edit it out it says "(August 29, 1958 – June 25, 2009)" in the source. It's not getting rapidly edited and undone, so why am I seeing this? -- Occono ( talk) 13:49, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
In the introduction listing of Michael Jackson, there is a term "faked death" listed in front of Michael Jackson's death date. Is there anyway that can be removed from the article because when I tried to edit it out, the "faked death" wa not listed. What is up with that? Chris ( talk) 14:09, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
is it true that Mikael had a Cache bypass, and this is what he died of? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.77.76.161 ( talk) 19:43, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
As of 10:00 AM on June 26, 2009, Michael Jackson's albums occupy 7 of the top 10 spots on iTunes's top 10. I think this should be added to the "Death" section of the article. Here is the proposed text...
"In the hours following Jackson's death, his record sales increased dramatically. His seminal album Thriller climbed to number one on the American iTunes music chart, while another eight [] rose into the top 40. By the morning of June 26, 2009, his albums occupied 7 of the chart's top 10 spots.
As of 10:00 AM, he also had 10 of the top 25 singles.
CBattles6 ( talk) 13:58, 26 June 2009 (UTC)CBattles6
I think we should make a real effort to get all of the article related to Michael Jackson to at least GA, and preferably to FA, in the near future. I will make a start on one of the article. Post a comment here or on the WP:WikiProject Michael Jackson page if you are willing to help. Look through the current articles and take as many as possible to Peer Review in their current state. We will then have some concrete issues to address. Thanks. 03 md 14:19, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
Looks like the site is getting overwhelmed again and probably will be a problem for most of today... time to leave now! NiteHacker ( talk) 14:48, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
Per CNN [8], in which Wikipedia is mentioned.
Not as many edits in 24 hours as to Sarah Palin following the announcement of her joining McCain's campaign.
Unsure if the pause in service on Wikipedia is due to high traffic to this article or other issues. -- Moni3 ( talk) 14:55, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
It's quite a handy feature. Every time Wikipedia crashes I know to check the news channels. The last one ten minutes ago was TMZ reporting that police want to speak to Jackos doctor. MickMacNee ( talk) 15:53, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
In the domestic partner section, it says 'children'. I seriously don't think this is true. Can someone please fix this, because it won't let me.
This would be interesting to know, if this is possible... and what websites and/or services (and music sites) were affected by this event... then include ALL this info in the article just to prove the popularity!
One site said 'Jackson died, almost takes internet with him'... sorry, but I had to laugh at that one! NiteHacker ( talk) 15:54, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
Here is a link for a story on the internet traffic generated by Jacksons death: http://www.cnn.com/2009/TECH/06/26/michael.jackson.internet/index.html I think that this is worth noting in the death section. I also think that there will probably eventually need to be a death article because the scope of his death has been so far reaching, and it hasn't even been 24 hours yet. Jcsavestheday ( talk) 18:21, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
As suggested elsewhere on this discussion page, a new separate page on his death is absolutely necessary. There are separate pages on the death of huge personalities such as American Presidents - Reagan, Ford, Kennedy; and pop icons such as Buddy Holy. Even the Iranian girl "Neda" has a death page, although her fame arose ONLY as a result of her death.
Being an American president or world leader should not be the only basis of qualification for a separate page; rather, it should be based on the monumental impact of the death event, the surrounding circumstances (as in Neda's case) and the reach of the individual's influence on popular culture while alive. These points cannot be disputed in the case of Michael Jackson, and Wikipedia already has precedents as mentioned.
Also, the fact that this forum has generated so much discussion on his death is another pointer to the need for a separate page on Jackson's death. It is immaterial that the dust is yet to settle on this monumental occurence, as updates can be entered as events unfold. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Merlin1935 ( talk • contribs) 17:00, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
The section of the death of Jackson has a bit about the media and the internet. This includes references to wikipedia itself. Does this breach WP:WAWI Martin451 ( talk) 16:00, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
Can we temporarily step up the archive interval from 10 days to 3? The posts are accumulating at such a rate I think that is needed.-- Ipatrol ( talk) 16:14, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
Oops... sorry, I made a mistake and edited on a wrong page and I think I lost some posts here... can someone revert it to the previous state or recover the missing items... again, I am sorry! NiteHacker ( talk) 16:23, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
A local news source around here posted a link to the 911 call. Does this have any relevance, and should this be included in the article? Excirial ( Contact me, Contribs) 19:19, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
Come on folks, the BBC have got it ( http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/8121884.stm) so I don't see what the issue is! If they believe it's genuine, I think we can be reasonably confident. If later they remove it, Wikipedia can too.
Could someone explain why they called the Fire Brigade when he was found dead? Could this have contributed to delays in getting him to hosptial, and therefore caused the death? 79.77.76.161 ( talk) 21:06, 27 June 2009 (UTC)greatestfan 79.77.76.161 ( talk) 21:06, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
Regarding the 911 call, I found it interesting that the 911 operator told the caller to put Michael on the floor and perform CPR. The caller said he was in the bed, yet they had a doctor with them and had already started CPR. I don't know a lot about the specifics of CPR, but I imagine the bounciness of the bed might change how effective CPR would be. And if this is the case, why would the doctor not know to put him on the floor first?-- TheByrus ( talk) 05:12, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
I have made the following image: http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/6937/jackson2.png Worthy for inclusion with a tagline like 'Worlds press focus in on LA' ? Dvmedis ( talk) 19:33, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
It matches WP:NFCC criteria on policies 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and 8.. primarily as they are free-to-air broadcasts captured in Europe, the images aren't replaceable by anything else and it's a pretty major event. For these reasons I think it would scrape in under fair use. Dvmedis ( talk) 19:55, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
If I get one more agreement from anybody, I'll try and get it sorted for inclusion? Obviously I'm wary of putting anything into the article that might get speedily removed by someone else.. Dvmedis ( talk) 20:12, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
It would fail NFCC8 by a mile, trust me. Basically, the image could be replaced by a sentence, and not lose any meaning. MickMacNee ( talk) 20:18, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
The contributions about various aspects of his death seem to be spinning out of control. The contributions aren't even about his death, they are about reactions and what not from all kinds of different areas. Do we try and curtail it now or just let it grow for a week or so and then cut it all out after it calms down? Beach drifter ( talk) 19:57, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
Eventually the death/funeral section will grow so big that a new article will be required. Could Death of Michael Jackson be unblocked at some point? I attempted to start the article yesterday but it all got a bit heated! Francium12 ( talk) 19:59, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
I think at least once today someone has created it to have it either prod'd or proposed merged. I didn't follow up on it but I don't think its there. The question is, in a few months will the article still be significant? Beach drifter ( talk) 20:02, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
In the "Death" section, it links to a 6 million hit Youtube video of Thriller.
This should be changed to ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtyJbIOZjS8), which is the full 14-minute video with more than 38 million hits.
Vh1 Classic is having a weekend dedicated to Micheal it should be added to a tribute section. LifeStroke420 ( talk) 20:08, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
I don't know about anywhere else, but here in the UK, 3 of the primary channels; Sky One, Five and BBC One are all airing rushed-tribute programs TONIGHT.. It's a little unbelievable. Dvmedis ( talk) 20:10, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
On the day he died, this article received 1.4 million visits, up 70-100x normal volume. davidwr/( talk)/( contribs)/( e-mail) 20:27, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
Yeah, and it crashed the server...Great! -.- -- Frank Fontaine ( talk) 21:10, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
Re. "admitting for the first time that he had vitiligo" - should this not say "claiming for the first time that he had vitiligo"?
"Admitting" implies that it's true: "claiming" implies that it might not be. Perhaps a more neutral word like "stating" might be more appropriate? Contains Mild Peril ( talk) 10:44, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
"claimed" is one of the words to avoid, and "admit" is also there, given with caution. According to wikipedia "said" and "stated" are standard journalistic words. Therefore it should be changed to either "said" or "stated"... 208.119.72.6 ( talk) 17:48, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
Wherefore art thou???
Has the doctor been located yet?
Site says the police are preparing to interview him. I have heard that he is missing and they are trying to find him. So did they find him yet? If not, then the article needs to be edited. NiteHacker ( talk) 22:15, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
A representative of the coroner's office is currently speaking. According to their office, they will NOT be releasing a preliminary cause of death. In other words, we will not know a cause of death for 4-8 weeks. That means any cause of deaths released by the media is pure speculation and therefore are not to be posted here. Any such postings should be considered ludicrous and deleted. The coroners office also refused to comment on what prescription drugs Michael Jackson may have been taken so that further exposes that any causes of deaths posted are not legitimate. ⒺⓋⒾⓁⒼⓄⒽⒶⓃ② talk 22:28, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
There is currently an edit war going on over how many records Jackson sold. This should be addressed here and consensus arrived at, but that's obviously not happening. Who then was a gentleman? ( talk) 23:31, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
Change "The death was transferred to the Los Angeles County Coroner for investigation" to "The invegistation of the death was transferred to the Los Angeles Country Coroner for investigation" OR "The case was transferred to the Los Angeles County Coroner for investigation"... death is non-transferable... 70.71.22.45 ( talk) 00:31, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
Should we use this opportunity to correct the strange "businessman" characterization in the opening sentence? There's a lot of coverage of Michael Jackson and none that I've seen refers to him or discusses him as having been a businessman. If we're trying to note his investments in music catalogs there's certainly a more accurate way to do so. ChildofMidnight ( talk) 01:36, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
This is a record: the article Michael Jackson has been viewed more than six million times in the latest 24 hours, including redirects other than Michael jackson, in addition to the 1.5 million page views just before. So since the announcement, we should have reached the 8 million page views. Cenarium ( talk) 01:41, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
It surpassed the amount of views of the Main Page. Quite amazing. — Σ xplicit 02:20, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
Check this out: http://www.cnn.com/2009/TECH/06/26/michael.jackson.internet/index.html Sephiroth storm ( talk) 02:28, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
"Jackson was pronounced dead at about 2:26 pm local time (21:26 UTC)" -- Reuters link now is dead. Original news story was updated and exact time no more available. I just can't find another authoritative source… Trycatch ( talk) 02:21, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
I removed the following statement: "It has been reported that police are preparing to interview Michael Jackson's personal doctor after the star's family suggested he died because of a drug overdose of [[Pethidine|Demerol]], an opioid similar to morphine.<ref>{{cite news|url=http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Showbiz-News/Michael-Jackson-Dies-Of-Heart-Attack-After-Being-Rushed-To-UCLA-Hospital-In-Los-Angeles/Article/200906415319936|title=Michael Jackson Dies Of Heart Attack After Being Rushed To UCLA Hospital In Los Angeles|publisher=Sky News|date=June 26, 2009|accessdate=June 27, 2009}}</ref>" The Sky news article references TMZ as the source of this statement, TMZ has been noted above as non reliable source. Sephiroth storm ( talk) 02:25, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
I suggest adding a subcategory to 'musical style and performance' about his iconic wardrobe. The red leather zipper jacket, fedora from Smooth Criminal, maybe others could be mentioned, but it seems wrong that there's not a single reference to the signature single glove, perhaps along with (sourced) speculation as to why he had it. Pxlt ( talk) 02:27, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
Jackson has been the subject of several commemorative stamps over the years. Several magazines and book biographies document this. Uncle G ( talk) 05:13, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
Should me mention something about this? http://www.cygy.com/2009/06/lisa-marie-presley-says-michael-jackson.html 70.68.139.248 ( talk) 03:35, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
Hmmm. It may be interesting trivia for the "death" section though. Hmmm.-- The Legendary Sky Attacker 04:51, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
No. In other words, he's saying that MJ pre-empted he would die of a heart attack like Elvis did. 90.194.162.61 ( talk) 11:18, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
I've added a video file of the moonwalk. It is in ogg (as all Wikipedia media files must be) and has a strong fair use rationale. I hope this improves the article! Awadewit ( talk) 03:51, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
Check this view history out. If its not a one day record for a single page, then what is the record?-- Jojhutton ( talk) 04:10, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
I have looked over the edit history of the article, and what I found is irritating!
the article was protected when there was no reason to, after users tried adding verified information from news services that Michael Jackson had died, and for no other reason.
To those admins responsible, I would strongly suggest that you either learn not to abuse your powers or that you quit.
TSAinc ( talk) 05:55, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
I think Wikipedia has learned a valuable lesson after all this. Portillo ( talk) 10:22, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
Perhaps an entry into the controversy section of
Wikipedia's own article would be in order. That coupled with the massave spike in page views, cannot be ignored.--
Jojhutton (
talk) 13:07, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
Yes Matty, I posted that assuming that people were in fact vandalizing the article, Since it is so common for people now to speak ill of the dead in a pathetic attempt at attention.
HOWEVER, after reviewing the edits, I realized that that was not the case on this article. Which is why I posted this topic.
TSAinc ( talk) 18:23, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
Here is a news article about Michael Jackson's impact in Russia: http://www.cnn.com/2009/SHOWBIZ/Music/06/26/Michael.Jackson.russia/index.html
Where should the info go? Which article related to Jackson is the best fit for this stuff? WhisperToMe ( talk) 06:10, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
I'm so sure I remember reading an article on Wikipedia about MJ's to-be-released album. It seems to have disappeared into thin air, along with even any mention of it in any MJ related articles. Google searches don't show anything. Did I dream this, or what? 125.238.109.250 ( talk) 08:05, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
You didnt dream it. Portillo ( talk) 15:11, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
It turned out to be Thriller 25. 75.73.43.136 ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 21:31, 27 June 2009 (UTC).
It was not Thriller 25. That had already been released. 125.238.109.1 ( talk) 08:56, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
Shouldn't there be a link to his texts?
"A countertenor is a male singing voice whose vocal range is equivalent to that of a contralto, mezzo-soprano, or (less frequently) a soprano, usually through use of falsetto, or more rarely the normal or modal voice."
Please check that this is correct. Tony (talk) 09:17, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
Would it not be respectful to the children of Michael to be listed under his "Legacy" and Influence? The names of the children are already on the page and sources but listed under the Legacy title seems to be most respectful and appropriate.
(discussion continued on WikiProject Biography here)
Since first visiting this article yesterday, I noticed one of the most obvious manual of style problems in the infobox. According to Wikipedia:Naming conventions (geographic names) the proper way to display place names in the United States is to just use the City and the State. Adding the phrase "United States" or "US" after the state name is not a common practice. Saying Los Angelas, California is proper and falls in line with many years of convential wisdom. Its overkill to add the country name, since the name and the state are all that is required, and wikipedia as well as other longer and more established manual of style policies seem to agree. I did finally remove the country name per Wikipedia:Naming conventions (geographic names) and just plain common sense here, but alas, it was added back in with no explanation as to why. I hope to get other editors take on this situation in hopes to form a basis to correct the situation.-- Jojhutton ( talk) 16:08, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
So far this is the channels I have found and thought it would be helpful to post for everyone wanting to see the tributes (history, specials, etc.)...
- VH1 - They stopped - don't know when
- MTV2 - They stopped - last evening
- Fuse - They are playing until Sunday, 2pm (EDT - I think?)
- VH1C - They are playing until Sunday, 9pm (EDT?)
If there are more, please add them here... thanks!
Updated NiteHacker ( talk) 17:26, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
TMZ broke the story of Jackson being rushed to hospital in the first place. TMZ correctly reported that Jackson was dead while "reliable" media outlets were reporting that he was lingering in a coma. TMZ first reported the demerol shot, which the family has since admitted to. Seems to me that they've been the most consistenty accurate regarding Jackson's death. So why do people insist on deleting anything that comes from, or traces back to, TMZ? Sounds like pure snobbery to me. Revmagpie ( talk) 17:32, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
There seems to be an SPA attempting to insert references to the above article into this article. He has done this across several articles. The GJ article itself controversial and poorly-sourced. I've removed the sentence, but would appreciate other opinions. Unitanode 17:53, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
Note: The following post (TreadingWater 21.48) was accidentaly removed by another editor 2 minutes after it was posted. MickMacNee ( talk) 23:51, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
Well, if it's not used in the article or isn't suitable for the article... then it should be removed... as simple as that! NiteHacker ( talk) 18:05, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
This article needs a new picture the current one is over a quarter of a century old, it' s a bit silly - we should have a more recent one, I tried putting another one and was told it wasn't clear enough, we need a clear recent one then... -- Kittins floating in the sky yay ( talk) 18:01, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
Did you read the FAQ above about recent pictures? NiteHacker ( talk) 18:07, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
Michael Jackson obviously suffered from a severe Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (respectively C-PTSD). And it may have been the root cause behind his excentric personality, and in a broad sense, the main reason for his early death. In other words: I consider the matter to be a major factor concerning Michael Jackson's personality, his work, his death and his legacy. So if there's some relevant source coming up to attest it, I think the article should be completed to that effect. (sorry for my bad english) -- Marcus from Italy ( talk) 18:13, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
I know there are probably a bunch of tribute sites, I am sure, but here's a few I wanted to point out...
Sony's http://www.michaeljackson.com/ was changed to a tribute site now. You can also listen to music, view videos, read news (MJ related - don't know?) and also browse albums.
This is on Google as a sponsored site -
http://www.michaeljacksonmemorialblog.com/ - only positive tributes allowed!
If you have negative remarks, you can post them
here.
I don't know if any of these sites are going to forward the tributes to the family. I am hoping and guessing that Sony might.
If you know of any sites, feel free to post them here! Also, if you know that they are going to forward the tributes to the family, make a note of it with your post... Thanks! NiteHacker ( talk) 18:37, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
I have a few questions about this sentence from "1958–1975: Early life and The Jackson 5":
"From a young age Jackson claims he was physically and emotionally abused by his father, enduring incessant rehearsals, whippings and name-calling, but also contends that his father was a strict disciplinarian that played a large part in his success."
Leaving aside the fact that the verb tense needs to be changed, what is the role of "From a young age"? Is the sentence supposed to say that Jackson began making these claims at an early age? Or does the sentence simply mean that he claimed, at some point in his life, that his father abused him when he was a very young child?
The first ref for the sentence seems to imply the latter. The second ref doesn't point to a relevant page. Any clarification would be appreciated. Zagalejo ^^^ 21:41, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
Michael wrote or co-wrote at least half of the songs he performed. Should songwriter be added in his initial description in the first paragraph? Krobertj ( talk) 23:03, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
Yeah, I agree unless recording artist in some way covers that. Vpuliva ( talk) 23:11, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
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"It has been overlooked that since Michael Jackson's Death there has been a boom in the sales of web domain names which carry tribute to the singer,a total of 1200 already. The day after his death auction prices on the popular web site 'ebay.com' reached a record of $10,000,000 for single web address' which bore tribute to Jackson. Domain names such as 'ilovemichaeljackson.net', 'www.MichaelJacksonIsAlwaysInMyHeart.com','michaeljackson4ever.info' and 'michaeljacksoninmemoriam.co.uk' (which is a pun upon the famous poem by Ernest Hemingway 'In Memoriam A.H.H') have now become extremely hard to come by and are now only available on the auction site ebay.com". Till now, the website is available http://www.MichaelJacksonIsAlwaysInMyHeart.com.
Seems to be true - a lot of YouTube sites making reference to his involvement in various court cases involving child molestation and paedophilia are disappearing - I wonder if the owners of YouTube have been contacted by the Family or representatives over this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.77.76.161 ( talk) 18:05, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
"Michael Jackson is dead" seems like a very insensitive opening line. Should this be changed? Geoff ( talk) 09:49, 26 June 2009 (UTC) RIP, a true pop legend
There are tons of holes in that case, which can be easily backed up with citations. But the article only mentions a few. For example there should be a lot more about the accuser's mother, who has said many times that her husband was trying to frame Jackson for child sex abuse. How about adding some direct quotes from her?
70.209.34.218 ( talk) 05:29, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
He was promoting his concert as Michael Jackson Alanasings ( talk) 13:00, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
Michael Joseph Jackson convert to razeby in 2007, new identity is Mikaeel Jackson, correctely please.
I agree. The name is Mikaeel Jackson. Here are the sources. Please address and change the name or at least include his new name in the profile. Cat Stevens was also present.
http://www.upi.com/Entertainment_News/2008/11/21/Report-Michael-Jackson-converts-to-Islam/UPI-13801227284529/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=222t3CJ9_3w -- (Abul Hasan comments on reports that Michael Jackson has converted to Islam)
http://www.nypost.com/seven/11202008/news/nationalnews/michael_jackson_converts_to_islam_139892.htm
http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/music/2008/11/21/2008-11-21_call_him_mikaeel_michael_jackson_reporte.html
http://www.inquisitr.com/9175/michael-jackson-islam/
http://www.news.com.au/entertainment/story/0,26278,24684859-7484,00.html
http://au.news.yahoo.com/a/-/latest/5162312/michael-jackson-becomes-a-muslim-report/
http://perezhilton.com/2008-11-21-michael-jackson-is-now-a-muslim
Here is also a video of how Jermaine Jackson wanted his brother (Michael Jackson) to convert to Islam. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wzFW1D1MII
Also in Jermaine's interview at the hospital he says "And Allah be with you Michael always." Which mean Michael Jackson did convert to Islam. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/8119993.stm
The references to Jackson's patent (an image caption and a sentence in the body of the article) are absurd: they imply that the patent was issued for his leaning technique. In fact, it covers "a specially designed pair of shoes" in combination with modifications to a stage surface. Can someone please fix this (I can't edit). — Aldaron • T/ C 01:45, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
That sounds about right. You can't patent a leaning stance. You can only patent an invention. 89.101.143.74 ( talk) 10:12, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
This may disappear amidst all the recent activity, but I just noticed that under "Voice type" in the article's infobox, it says "Falsetto". There are two problems with this. First, MJ didn't only sing in falsetto; there are very few male vocalists who sing exclusively in falsetto, it's just not a natural singing style. Second, falsetto doesn't even appear in the voice types article, leading me to believe it's not technically a "voice type" (seems like more of a singing style to me). I couldn't say if he was a tenor or countertenor, but this should be fixed by someone who does know. - 68.146.211.84 ( talk) 01:45, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
His voice is that of a countertenor (being a countertenor myself). Countertenors are men with voices that normally sound like a female (without trying to or resorting to falsetto). A countertenor can be easily detected by listening to their normal speaking voice. Even if he sings falsetto on some parts (to make the sound lighter), he did hit some notes on his modal voice.
A common misconception about countertenor is that every countertenor sings in falsetto. I am classically trained and I use my full voice when singing. Falsetto might be needed in some songs parts either to add drama or to tone down volume (this is where I'm asked to use it).
And note, falsetto is NOT a voice type. It is a term used to describe how someone sings (in falsetto's case, using head tone). Everyone can sing in falsetto but not everyone is a countertenor. ~~KCQuest
Having written a paper on voice types and vocal styles, I can confirm that falsetto is not a voice type, but rather a style used to extend the top range in a way that produces a different sound that is audibly different from the "full voice". While he does use falsetto in many songs, it is not his voice type, and I agree that he would be most appropriately classified as a counter-tenor. As the original anon. poster of this talk subject is not able to edit the page, I would be more than happy to amend this in the article, provided that there is a consensus. If one is not reached, I'll attempt to find a source online to reference when making a change. So, please provide your thoughts on the matter :) Chrisch Talk 14:25, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
Voice type currently says "Falsetto, Tenor". As others have correctly pointed out, falsetto is a vocal technique not a classification of voice type (even for those singers who perform almost exclusively in falsetto, and Michael Jackson does not fall into that category). Michael Jackson did have a high natural tessitura, and it's not always obvious where his falsetto starts and stops. His unusually high speaking voice would suggest he may have been a natural countertenor. I don't think the description "tenor" could be in any way controversial, and he was at least a high tenor if not a true countertenor. Contains Mild Peril ( talk) 17:23, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
I concur that he was a countertenor, in my opinion. His range extended to near the top of the treble clef. Although his upper range didn't extend as far as that of Freddie Mercury or Bobby McFerrin, his upper range extended particularly high for a male voice.
EnglishHornDude (
talk) 04:32, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
On the morning of June 25, 2009, Jackson reportedly collapsed at a rented home in west Los Angeles. Local fire department paramedics responded to a 911 call at 12:21 pm local (Pacific) time[185] and arrived at 12:30 pm. Jackson was reportedly not breathing and CPR was quickly performed. He was reported to have just received a shot of demarol from his doctor.[186] He fell into a coma(wikilink) and died shortly after being rushed to UCLA Medical Center at around 2:26 local time.[188][187] The cause of death is reported to be cardiac arrest.[186] Although there is no evidence of criminality, Los Angeles Police Department detectives have opened an investigation into his death.[189] An autopsy is said to be scheduled for Friday, June 26, 2009.[188]
Some rephrasing. TechOutsider ( talk) 01:55, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
I agree, and I would like to see what the Sheriff has to say about whether the rented property had a full gas inspection by a Corgi Registered Company? He may have died of Carbon Monoxide poisoning, in which case the Landlord is responsible for a LOT of grief worldwide right now, as well as ruining the Tour. 79.77.76.161 ( talk) 20:52, 27 June 2009 (UTC)bubbleboy 79.77.76.161 ( talk) 20:52, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
Under the heading "1958-1975 Early life and The Jackson 5", it states Jackson was physically and mentally abused by his father... A suggestion would be to change that to "Jackson and his siblings were physically and mentally abused by their father... This would be so the reader doesn't leave this Wikipedia article thinking that only Michael was abused. In some abusive households it is true that one child may suffer but Joesph was equally firm and abusive with all his children. It's important a reader who doesn't know this won't leave with a misinterpretation of events. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.192.176.30 ( talk) 02:05, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
{{ edit protected}}
MickMacNee ( talk) 02:14, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
My responses:
Thanks, wadester 16 02:21, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
Sources:
MickMacNee ( talk) 03:18, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
Is 'afterward' rather than 'afterwards' a typo or a feature of US English? TerriersFan ( talk) 02:33, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
Okay, I'm just gonna come out and say it because somebody needs to. When somebody famous dies, especially somebody world-famous and recognizable (and even loved) by literally billions of people, the information that is presented here at Wikipedia has to be correct per the verifiable, reliable sources that are cited. It's not just about our community or our policies, it's about our readers, who come here with at least a reasonable expectation that our "reporting" of the incident will be correct, or as correct as reports we cite can be. The bouncing back and forth between having a death section, not having a death section, reporting the same thing in three sections, etc, is unnecessary and disruptive. That's the main reason this is fully protected. I am here, and am willing to update the page, as I have been; a simple request (with source!) is all that's needed for your update to be made. Right now, the article is correct per its sources, which are all notable (MSNBC, Reuters, CNN, etc). This is essentially a case of WP:IAR because it's such a big event. It's a necessity, otherwise this could turn into another Ted Kennedy/Robert Byrd report. This will all cool down by tomorrow, but for now, it needs to be correct and not unreliable. Let the crucifying begin. :-) wadester 16 02:47, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
i'm with wadester, wikipedia should be about correct information over fast information. there's more than enough sites out there pumping out rumor and blatant mything to be the first people with the story, so i fully support the admins sitting on it until a genuine confrimation. 78.16.106.3 ( talk) 03:23, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
I am OK with what you said here and previously and I withdraw my request and I see what you are saying now and agree with what was posted... although, it is 'reportedly' and, thus, may be inaccurate at this point. NiteHacker ( talk) 03:34, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
there aint no deadline so lock it until the news dies down and well know which are the best sources to use and what information is important to put in... 70.71.22.45 ( talk) 03:45, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
I think we should add that he converted to Islam.
If anything, the wording of this claim should say "Although he never confirmed it publicly, there are some reports that Michael converted to Islam later in life, although dispute remains around this claim." Clearly, since there are several sections on the discussion page debating whether sources on this item are reliable, this claim is under debate. This doesn't mean it can't be true, but it does mean that there is legetimate debate around the subject, and I think the article should acknowledge this, instead of just claiming it as fact, which it may not be.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/celebritynews/3494296/Michael-Jackson-converts-to-Islam-and-changes-name-to-Mikaeel.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1088225/Michael-Jackson-Muslim-changes-Mikaeel.html
http://www.nypost.com/seven/11202008/news/nationalnews/michael_jackson_converts_to_islam_139892.htm
Jermaine Jackson said in the press conference today "may Allah be with you always Michael" I think his conversion should be added
http://www.upi.com/Entertainment_News/2008/11/21/Report-Michael-Jackson-converts-to-Islam/UPI-13801227284529/ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=222t3CJ9_3w -- (Abul Hasan comments on reports that Michael Jackson has converted to Islam) http://www.nypost.com/seven/11202008/news/nationalnews/michael_jackson_converts_to_islam_139892.htm http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/music/2008/11/21/2008-11-21_call_him_mikaeel_michael_jackson_reporte.html http://www.inquisitr.com/9175/michael-jackson-islam/ http://www.news.com.au/entertainment/story/0,26278,24684859-7484,00.html http://au.news.yahoo.com/a/-/latest/5162312/michael-jackson-becomes-a-muslim-report/
Two separate threads on same topic going on here... see Mikaeel Jackson, not Michael Jackson above. Also before posting, search the archives for previous or past responses to this same topic! NiteHacker ( talk) 14:36, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
The lead claims he has sold 750 million albums worldwide. A quick add up here puts the sales of his top 5 selling albums at around the 200 million mark. Where did the other half billion sales come from? Is the statement even remotely supportable? -- LiamE ( talk) 03:05, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
It should probably be left... it might be right! Here's ANOTHER source that says it... [www.eonline.com/uberblog/b131173_michael_jackson_pops_thrilling_king.html]
"Jackson, whose lifetime of hits sold more than 750 million albums worldwide..." NiteHacker ( talk) 03:51, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
Seeing as there isnt a single source that breaks down his album sales that gives a figure over even 300 million (including work with the family) and Sony/michaeljackson.com say the 750 million figure is for records not albums I consider the discussion pretty much over. -- LiamE ( talk) 07:03, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
Random busy body: When totalling up his record sales, are you including the sales that he made as Jackson Five?
This section appears to be very subjective. The author draws conclusions and take sides on a issue that is so much uncertain. The statement: "The treatments he used for his condition further lighten his skin tone, and, with the application of pancake makeup to even out blotches, he could appear very pale" is followed by others arguing that Michael skin condition was a result of skin condition. This has never been proved so I suggest the following to be added:
"But the controversy surrounding his health condition continued up to may 2009 when Michael Jackson's official spokesperson, Dr. Tohme, in an effort to silence rumors declared that he was not suffering from any skin condition at all. This strengthened the argument that Michael Jackson pale appearance was a result of intentional bleaching of the skin "
This source states that Jermaine said that Michael's physician was with him at the time he collapsed in his home and tried to resuscitate him before paramedics arrived. Can anybody corroborate that with another source? That seems important (and, indeed, odd). wadester 16 03:38, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
{{ edit protected}}
Minor? Move Death section from below the musical style stuff to a H3 header in the H2 Biography section. Rationale: His birth is considered part of his 'Biography', so for simple chronological readability, his death should be too. MickMacNee ( talk) 03:44, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
I'd like to see the "Jackson died on June 25, 2009 at the age of 50." statement in the intro removed. It adds nothing. The date of death is already there. -- kittyKAY4 ( talk) 03:46, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
OK, then move it to a H2 section below the biography. MickMacNee ( talk) 03:50, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
KittyKAY4's one request does not amount to "multiple requests to remove", the article's lead is suppose to be a summery, so it should be reverted back.-- MahaPanta ( talk) 03:55, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
i dont think we need to have the date of his death mentioned in the lede... its NOT that important... 5 years from now do you think that information would still be important enough to be in the lede? 70.71.22.45 ( talk) 05:05, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
In numerous places it has been agreed that edit protection should be lowered to semi. Please do it. Mostlyharmless ( talk) 04:02, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
Open the floodgates. I do want to point out though, that just because we're admins doesn't mean good faith shouldn't still be assumed. Please see this rationale. It was a necessity. Will keep an eye here for another hour or so to see how things go. wadester 16 04:16, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
I am disappointed in the protecting admins complete lack of judgement.-- The Legendary Sky Attacker 04:23, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
I agree. Warn and block the harmful registered users and semi-unprotect the page. You'll still keep new accounts and IP editors away.-- The Legendary Sky Attacker 04:33, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
@Sky Attacker - more discrimination against IP editors? 70.71.22.45 ( talk) 05:49, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
'The entertainment site TMZ.com reported at 2:20 p.m. PDT that: "We're told when paramedics arrived Jackson had no pulse and they never got a pulse back."'
source = http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-10273277-93.html
BTW, you think Wikipedia has mistakes... how about this one, from the same site...
'He was "prounced" dead at 2:26 p.m., officials said.'
I know it may not be funny at this moment, if it isn't... sorry. NiteHacker ( talk) 04:12, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
A simple end date after his name is not acceptable for detailing the fact he has just died as a summary of this article. Read WP:LEDE. The brackets, much like an infobox, are additional to the article text, they do not replace it. MickMacNee ( talk) 04:23, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
Since you removed "the", I had to add "th", and I rearranged it to flow better.--
MahaPanta (
talk) 04:51, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
Was Michael's middle name based on the father's name Joe (Joseph)?
Is this noteworthy?
If so, there's no mention in the article about it. NiteHacker ( talk) 05:03, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
I don't know if there is a family source that directly states the connection between the middle name "Joseph" and his father. I would assume that it might be in either his autobiagrpahy Moon Walk (I tried to hyperlink to the article on the book, but the link wasn't working) or one of the autobigraphical books written by Katherine Jackson. If I had to guess, I would assume that this was a a naming convention within the Jackson family, but a guess doesn't do much for verifiability. As for notability, I don't personally think its that notable. Unless there was a major reason for the name being given to him. To summerize, as in Isaac Asimov "What's in a name?" Wolfpeaceful ( talk) 17:25, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
The lead is an abstract/summary of the article. It does not matter how many times his death is meantioned elsewhere, the lead must be able to stand alone. It's entire purpose is so that someone browsing articles can read it instead of the entire article. Then if they want to know more, they can read the rest of the article. That also means anything mentioned in it should be considered the first time it is mentioned.
We are also suppose to refrain from using words like died.--
MahaPanta (
talk) 05:05, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
"The word "died" is religiously neutral, and neither crude nor vulgar." - according to the page above. NiteHacker ( talk) 05:23, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
if you're lucky enough (like me) not to be an admin, the note you get when you edit the page seems a bit odd... it says something like 'Admins! Yes You! Don't edit this! - I figure someone would know how to fix that up? :-) Privatemusings ( talk) 05:08, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
I've reinstated material wrongly deleted about the ADL controversy over the song "They don't Care About Us". VsevolodKrolikov ( talk) 05:14, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
This section is very misleading: "The ADL complained and Jackson responded by saying he would re-record the lyrics before the album went into production. However the ADL's press release charged that Jackson had performed the song live and included the lyrics in question during the live performance." This implies that the song was never released with the infamous lyrics, when in fact those were present in an entire first run of the album- millions of copies were sold (including my own) before the controversy arose.
Perhaps there is a problem with the age listed in the introduction. Other articles in the encyclopedia state he began in the Jackson 5 at the age of 8. 76.191.132.155 ( talk) 05:21, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
Can someone please add Michael Jackson's religion to the article, there is nothing about it. Please do not ignore this, it will be added sooner or later, do not try to manipulate the article. Truth first.
He converted to Islam in November 2008 and confirmed it. His brother Jermaine and his sister have been Muslim for a long time.
His brother said may Allah be with you always
94.97.104.168 (
talk) 08:54, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
Here is the source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/8119993.stm Listen to the end of the clip where Jermaine says "May Allah be wth you". As he respects his religion he says "May Allah be with you".
Please add that there is possibility that Michael Jackson was a Muslim, there are also other sources that claims it, if you google it you will see that other newspapers have written it, and it's possible for him to have become Muslim, since he has been living in the Middle-East and gotten close to the Muslim culture.
This article looks like a record company wrote it. Please add it or this article will be marked as unilateral/biased. This reminds me of the Scientology section...
Don't be absurd. There isn't the slightest shred of evidence that Michael was Muslim, and the fact that a couple of his siblings converted to it (from Jehovah's Witnesses, if I remember correctly) has no bearing on Michael's own beliefs. Did anyone ever snap a picture of MJ praying to Mecca? Did he ever say he was Islamic, or seem to abide by any of the strictures? No.
Absolutely. I was being a bit facetious. Similarly, I would say that if Michael ever *had* become Islamic, his brother Jermaine would have shouted it from the roof-tops. In interviews Jermaine has said he wished Michael would convert, so if he managed it, he'd have been holding press conferences:-) But that's not evidence. http://www.entertainmentwise.com/news/27346/jermaine-jackson-wants-to-convert
--Verifiability is essential. And it is incorrect to assume that simply because his brother converted to Islam, that he did also. E.g. My sister is Christian, and I am Wiccan. She says "God Bless You" to me, but does that make me Christian? No it does not. And also, yes, a picture would be relatively meaningless. The photo would only verify the visual medium, but not fully explain what it is taking place in the picture. E.g. I attend church sometimes with my friends, out of respect. If someone took a photo of me reading a Bible in a church, they might assume (incorrectly) that I was Christian. There might even be a caption included "wolfpeaceful converts to Christianity." But this would be wrong. 208.119.72.6 ( talk) 17:39, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
shouldnt ==death== be further down? like before the ==legacy and influence== section instead of before ==musical style and performance==? i tried to move it but one too many edit conflicts. i dont deal well with frustration. badmachine ( talk) 05:45, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
Should it not be time to actually install a reputable, up-to-date photo? One which actually shows what Michael Jackson looked like before he died? Crazy Eddy ( talk) 05:51, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
We can discuss this when the facts of the case are clearer, but at this point it remains uncertain whether Jackson's death will warrant an article in the future, so there's no need to have a debate. Dekimasu よ! 07:09, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
In a few days I suggest that the death of Michael Jackson should receive a page of it's own. This event is incredibly immense. Here are some examples: Example 1, Example 2, Example 3, Example 4, Example 5, Example 6, Example 7, - Mdriver1981 ( talk) 06:12, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
When Coroners' report is available, it will list all the drugs found in the toxicology report - we've already had them printed in the UK, but unconfirmed. A cursory glance of this list does tend to indicate he would have been hopelessly addicted to them - highly unsafe co-administrations - will post a list along with Pharmacological information on side effects when I can, as I think this will be of wide interest, but once you have a cause of death, dont see you need anything more, apart from coverage of funral —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.77.76.161 ( talk) 18:16, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
As suggested elsewhere on this discussion page, a new separate page on his death is absolutely necessary. There are separate pages on the death of huge personalities such as American Presidents - Reagan, Ford, Kennedy; and pop icons such as Buddy Holy. Even the Iranian girl "Neda" has a death page, although her fame arose ONLY as a result of her death.
Being an American president or world leader should not be the only qualification for a separate page; rather, it should be based on the monumental impact of the death event, the surrounding circumstances of death (as in Neda's case) and the reach of the individual's influence on popular culture while alive. These points cannot be disputed in the case of Michael Jackson, and Wikipedia already has precedents as mentioned.
Also, the fact that this forum has generated so much discussion on his death is another pointer to the need for a separate page on Jackson's death. It is immaterial that the dust is yet to settle on this monumental occurrence, as updates can be entered as events unfold. Merlin1935 ( talk) 17:16, 27 June 2009 (UTC)Merlin
Michael Jackson Broke MTV Color Barrier
More importantly, Jackson figuratively shattered the race barrier in popular culture, showing that an African-American performer could be the biggest crossover star in the world. He also single-handedly integrated MTV, which had blocked playing black artists in its regular rotation until Columbia Records threatened to pull all its videos from the channel unless they played Jackson's "Billie Jean." When MTV played it, the iconic "Billie Jean" video became an instant success, kicking the door open for a host of African-American artists, including Prince.
"[MTV] said they don't play [black artists]," Jackson told Ebony last year. "It broke my heart, but at the same time it lit something. I was saying to myself, 'I have to do something where they . . . I just refuse to be ignored."
"a suspected heart attack or cardiac arrest" is better than "a suspected cardiac arrest or heart attack" as "cardiac arrest" shouldn't take an article and "an X or Y" can mean "a Y or an X"/"Y or an X" -- Bogger ( talk) 08:31, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
Respectfully request the deletion of the detail regarding Michael Jackson's coma state. A person is generally not regarded to be in a coma if he or she is in a state of full cardiac arrest. From the news report and the LAFD 9-1-1 dispatch to Rescue/Engine 71, Michael Jackson had a respiratory arrest (he stopped breathing) which eventually caused his heart to stop. Resuscitative efforts such as CPR, intubation, defibrillation, and cardioactive drugs such as epinephrine, sodium bicarbonate, atropine, and amiodarone are artificial methods to try and trigger the heart to start back up. A person whose heart is not pumping on its own is clinically dead. A coma, on the other hand, is a condition in which a person is in deep unconsciousness due to brain insult or injury.
Had the LAFD paramedics restored a pulse on scene, (it took them 9 minutes to get on scene) in most likelihood, Michael Jackson would have had extensive brain injury perhaps leaving him in a vegetative state. According to the American Heart Association, a person's chances of surviving a cardiac arrest significantly diminishes with each minute that passes without CPR AND defibrillation. At 9 minutes, his chances of survival were well into the single digits. Brain tissue begins to die off after 4 minutes without oxygen.
There were a flurry of reports from the time the incident was reported to the time he was pronounced dead from various news sources, of which the veracity could not be verified. As it stood, a team of emergency physicians and cardiologists attempted for over an hour to restart his heart to no avail. A coma would have been a bitter victory.
"At 9 minutes, his chances of survival were well into the single digits. Brain tissue begins to die off after 4 minutes without oxygen." Isn't it possible to have put him on a breathing machine which would, thus, have provided the oxygen he needed? Otherwise, why would the doctors try for one hour to revive him? NiteHacker ( talk) 10:43, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
In the opening section: "Referred to as the "King of Pop" in subsequent years, four of his solo studio albums are among the world's best-selling records: Off the Wall (1979), Bad (1987), Dangerous (1991) and HIStory (1995), while his 1982 Thriller is the world's best-selling record of all time." strangely has no references and being the best-selling puts Thriller "among among the world's best-selling records" so it should read:
"Referred to as the " King of Pop" citation needed in subsequent years, his 1982 Thriller is the world's best-selling record of all time and four other solo studio albums are also among the world's best-selling records: Off the Wall (1979), Bad (1987), Dangerous (1991) and HIStory (1995). citation needed"--08:59, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
I understand many unreasonable users have stated the end to talks about him converting, however, it needs to be brought up again.
The recent BBC article on the death of Jackson mentions Jermaine Jackson as the OFFICIAL SPOKESPERSON of the Jackson family referring to 'Allah always being with him in the afterlife.'
IN FACT, here are the official/actual quotes:
"And Allah be with you Michael always. I love you."
PLUS LOOK AT THE VIDEO!!! HE MENTIONS MAY ALLAH BE WITH YOU MICHAEL
Here is the BBC link: BBC NEWS LINK
Please acknowledge this in the article.
P.S. Why does he need to publicly proclaim that he is Muslim?? Faith is a personal matter! I KNOW it is hard for Western users to cope with his conversion. Sad.
Thank you, Vseferović ( talk) 08:52, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
Nice defaming of religions there, people 91.142.61.4 ( talk) 11:57, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
"Where news is carried in multiple national, multi-national or global news agencies; it is taken as credible on the balance of probabilities. This is a legal test. We are not applying anything more stringent nor is this required.
This is not a test applied on other articles especially in relation to someone's faith let alone reportage.
If it should be done here then we have serious issues of bias, agenda, POV and discriminatory conduct to answer. There are now enough news media sources (NPOV) which have independently confirmed this - they do not all refer to the Sun as source material. It is not for WPs to have to interrogate news media agencies and reporters about the validity of their claims. They report, we recite, you decide.
It is for WPs to in the least reflect the common knowledge - not bias or agenda driving. Statements like "prove it or move on" are unhelpeful on WP and raise serious questions about the motivation for making such statements especially where they are backed up with disproportionate penalties for accurate article writing. Seniority does not exclude us from error or bias. Ask Dick Cheney. It is however common practice in the modern media age for most news media in the modern age to be 'echoed' across varying sources. This is how many agencies work.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1088225/Michael-Jackson-Muslim-changes-Mikaeel.html http://www.nypost.com/seven/11202008/news/nationalnews/michael_jackson_converts_to_islam_139892.htm http://www.arabianbusiness.com/539088-michael-jackson-muslim#continueArticle http://www.daily.pk/world/americas/8230-michael-jackson-has-converted-to-islam.html
Our own definition of news is: 'News is any new information or information on current events which is presented by print, broadcast, Internet, or word of mouth to a third party or mass audience. News, the reporting of current information on television and radio, and in newspapers and magazines'
Reuters and UPI work in exactly this manner. It is unusual that something so accepted in so many places requires such a debate here. Could it be that the most famous man in pop history potentially converting to Islam raises too many issues. WP does not shirk from article writing on controversial issues. We do not censor the truth. If the story is carried in multiple national or global news sources it should be, despite misgivings, relied upon and reported on if relevent. Despite us deploring them, The Sun and Fox News Corp are news media sources (and sister companies).
If you want to apply an indirectly discriminatory condition on the reporting relating to Muslims, we are on a slippery slope. Someone should give Jimmy a heads up in this case.
Amendments should be made to the article to correspond to at least that it has been reported - to the scale of the reporting. How many Muslims have confirmed to the press directly their faith? Is it something we ask Jews, Christians or any other faith group to do? NB: having recently returned from the Middle East, there is widespread acceptance of this as a matter of fact, including his building and funding of mosques and appearances publically."
This was taken from this disscusion. Talk to Magibon 15:23, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
Jermaine wanted Michael to convert to Islam, in 2007, it makes sense after reports he converted because he was influenced by his brother and he travelled to Bahrain. I think you have to take the actual person into consideration to whether he really converted and you cannot just take the words of his lawyer, how do you know exactly whether he is telling the truth or not, i think there are so many evidences which suggest he has converted, but I believe he wanted to hide his conversion for some particular reason. There should be at least a mention in the article that his brother wanted him to convert, and there were numerous new articles which stated that he did, whether this is true or not, it has to be neutral. Lets wait and see how he is buried, if in a Islamic ritual, then we must accept further that he is Muslim. [2] [3] [4] [5] DinajGao ( talk) 13:48, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
I have found another source from these articles which may indicate he has converted or may have a Muslim funeral: [6] [7] DinajGao ( talk) 10:47, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
what's THE source for " best selling album"-- Bogger ( talk) 09:40, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
New item about the cause of his death... says, according to a family attorney, that he was over-medicated... http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/06/25/entertainment/main5115503.shtml?tag=cbsnewsSectionsArea;cbsnewsSectionsArea.0 NiteHacker ( talk) 09:30, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
Well if you think its info that adheres to the wiki guidelines and should be in the article, put it in the article. This is page for discussing the article, not a RSS feed. 92.15.13.86 ( talk) 09:37, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
Too much controversy right now... so I will leave it for someone else to make the change. I don't feel qualified enough to do it myself. I know this is NOT an RSS, BUT it is a discussion page and so I am just adding to the discussion! NiteHacker ( talk) 09:52, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
Besides, I think a consensus has been made that they will wait for the results of the autopsy before adding anymore to the article about his death. NiteHacker ( talk) 10:03, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
I don't agree - this article
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/2009/06/26/world-in-shock-as-king-of-pop-and-music-icon-michael-jackson-dies-aged-50-86908-21472673/ also states he over medicated. I think it's relevent now and should be added. Does that mean that until we see his dead body, is death is also speculation???
Jacobsdad (
talk) 10:58, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
The most prudent thing to do right now would be to wait for the autopsy, although I am hearing from Fox News on TV right now that he was given morphine shortly before his death. However, that may not be the cause of his heart attack. Until the trained professional finishes with an autopsy, and the toxicology results get back, it is too early to tell why he died. -- Scouto2 ( talk) 14:21, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
This article incorrects states (under the Death part) that 50MM GBP is the equivalent to 100 MM USD. 50 MM GBP is about 82 MM USD, so it would be more correct to say 83 MM USD.
Also Demarol is one of the narcotic pain relievers that actually cause more cardiac issues then any other
Demarol gets converted to other metabolites after death - should these metabolites not be named accurately too, to avoid confusion over the actual cause of death?? 79.77.76.161 ( talk) 19:41, 27 June 2009 (UTC)DrLofthouse 79.77.76.161 ( talk) 19:41, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
The article needs a section that covers his personal life: his year and a half marriage to Lisa Marie Presley, his two children by Deborah Jeanne Rowe, and infobox references to these people.
Also, Jackson's own mother, Katherine Jackson, will care for the Jackson children, according to his lawyer. Dogru144 ( talk) 10:26, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
I said there needs to be a section. Dogru144 ( talk) 11:09, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
MickMacNee ( talk) 13:42, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
Not being rude, but what genres of music did Jackson crossover from and to? As I study the article I assume that it means the Jacksons crossed over from a black soul market to a pop/soul market. Yes/No? Whilst the term is familiar in the music business and the context is fairly clear to those in the know in a lot of the music media, I feel that it should usually be used a bit more specifically in an encyclopedia. IceDragon64 ( talk) 11:34, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
To be more accurate it was from Soul and R&B to Pop/Rock, while retaining Soul and R&B. I don't have a source, though, but I hope that answers your question. Wolfpeaceful ( talk) 18:04, 26 June 2009 (UTC) The Jackson 5 actually recorded their first album IN the town of Jackson, USA, as a Country and Western band, the first 'black pioneers' of this genre, and have their prints in the concrete outside the 'Old Oprey', where later black pioneers of this genre, like Wilson Picket, The Pips (before they joined with Martha Reeves naturally) and Tammy Wynette also made their mark. 79.77.76.161 ( talk) 21:03, 27 June 2009 (UTC)bubbleboy 79.77.76.161 ( talk) 21:03, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
Is that appropriate... shouldn't unexpectedly be dropped? NiteHacker ( talk) 12:03, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
shoudn't the time zone be incuded in the opening paragraph for overseas readers of this article?
--on it. I'll make the correction. Wolfpeaceful ( talk) 18:08, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
As of this writing, the section titled, "2008–2009: Milestones, real estate, planned return to live performance" does not have anything about a planned return to live performance in there. Either something needs to be added or the title of the section needs to be changed. 68.254.169.228 ( talk) 12:39, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
I keep seeing "(August 29, 1958 – faked death June 25, 2009)" but when I try to edit it out it says "(August 29, 1958 – June 25, 2009)" in the source. It's not getting rapidly edited and undone, so why am I seeing this? -- Occono ( talk) 13:49, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
In the introduction listing of Michael Jackson, there is a term "faked death" listed in front of Michael Jackson's death date. Is there anyway that can be removed from the article because when I tried to edit it out, the "faked death" wa not listed. What is up with that? Chris ( talk) 14:09, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
is it true that Mikael had a Cache bypass, and this is what he died of? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.77.76.161 ( talk) 19:43, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
As of 10:00 AM on June 26, 2009, Michael Jackson's albums occupy 7 of the top 10 spots on iTunes's top 10. I think this should be added to the "Death" section of the article. Here is the proposed text...
"In the hours following Jackson's death, his record sales increased dramatically. His seminal album Thriller climbed to number one on the American iTunes music chart, while another eight [] rose into the top 40. By the morning of June 26, 2009, his albums occupied 7 of the chart's top 10 spots.
As of 10:00 AM, he also had 10 of the top 25 singles.
CBattles6 ( talk) 13:58, 26 June 2009 (UTC)CBattles6
I think we should make a real effort to get all of the article related to Michael Jackson to at least GA, and preferably to FA, in the near future. I will make a start on one of the article. Post a comment here or on the WP:WikiProject Michael Jackson page if you are willing to help. Look through the current articles and take as many as possible to Peer Review in their current state. We will then have some concrete issues to address. Thanks. 03 md 14:19, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
Looks like the site is getting overwhelmed again and probably will be a problem for most of today... time to leave now! NiteHacker ( talk) 14:48, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
Per CNN [8], in which Wikipedia is mentioned.
Not as many edits in 24 hours as to Sarah Palin following the announcement of her joining McCain's campaign.
Unsure if the pause in service on Wikipedia is due to high traffic to this article or other issues. -- Moni3 ( talk) 14:55, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
It's quite a handy feature. Every time Wikipedia crashes I know to check the news channels. The last one ten minutes ago was TMZ reporting that police want to speak to Jackos doctor. MickMacNee ( talk) 15:53, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
In the domestic partner section, it says 'children'. I seriously don't think this is true. Can someone please fix this, because it won't let me.
This would be interesting to know, if this is possible... and what websites and/or services (and music sites) were affected by this event... then include ALL this info in the article just to prove the popularity!
One site said 'Jackson died, almost takes internet with him'... sorry, but I had to laugh at that one! NiteHacker ( talk) 15:54, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
Here is a link for a story on the internet traffic generated by Jacksons death: http://www.cnn.com/2009/TECH/06/26/michael.jackson.internet/index.html I think that this is worth noting in the death section. I also think that there will probably eventually need to be a death article because the scope of his death has been so far reaching, and it hasn't even been 24 hours yet. Jcsavestheday ( talk) 18:21, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
As suggested elsewhere on this discussion page, a new separate page on his death is absolutely necessary. There are separate pages on the death of huge personalities such as American Presidents - Reagan, Ford, Kennedy; and pop icons such as Buddy Holy. Even the Iranian girl "Neda" has a death page, although her fame arose ONLY as a result of her death.
Being an American president or world leader should not be the only basis of qualification for a separate page; rather, it should be based on the monumental impact of the death event, the surrounding circumstances (as in Neda's case) and the reach of the individual's influence on popular culture while alive. These points cannot be disputed in the case of Michael Jackson, and Wikipedia already has precedents as mentioned.
Also, the fact that this forum has generated so much discussion on his death is another pointer to the need for a separate page on Jackson's death. It is immaterial that the dust is yet to settle on this monumental occurence, as updates can be entered as events unfold. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Merlin1935 ( talk • contribs) 17:00, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
The section of the death of Jackson has a bit about the media and the internet. This includes references to wikipedia itself. Does this breach WP:WAWI Martin451 ( talk) 16:00, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
Can we temporarily step up the archive interval from 10 days to 3? The posts are accumulating at such a rate I think that is needed.-- Ipatrol ( talk) 16:14, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
Oops... sorry, I made a mistake and edited on a wrong page and I think I lost some posts here... can someone revert it to the previous state or recover the missing items... again, I am sorry! NiteHacker ( talk) 16:23, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
A local news source around here posted a link to the 911 call. Does this have any relevance, and should this be included in the article? Excirial ( Contact me, Contribs) 19:19, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
Come on folks, the BBC have got it ( http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/8121884.stm) so I don't see what the issue is! If they believe it's genuine, I think we can be reasonably confident. If later they remove it, Wikipedia can too.
Could someone explain why they called the Fire Brigade when he was found dead? Could this have contributed to delays in getting him to hosptial, and therefore caused the death? 79.77.76.161 ( talk) 21:06, 27 June 2009 (UTC)greatestfan 79.77.76.161 ( talk) 21:06, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
Regarding the 911 call, I found it interesting that the 911 operator told the caller to put Michael on the floor and perform CPR. The caller said he was in the bed, yet they had a doctor with them and had already started CPR. I don't know a lot about the specifics of CPR, but I imagine the bounciness of the bed might change how effective CPR would be. And if this is the case, why would the doctor not know to put him on the floor first?-- TheByrus ( talk) 05:12, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
I have made the following image: http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/6937/jackson2.png Worthy for inclusion with a tagline like 'Worlds press focus in on LA' ? Dvmedis ( talk) 19:33, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
It matches WP:NFCC criteria on policies 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and 8.. primarily as they are free-to-air broadcasts captured in Europe, the images aren't replaceable by anything else and it's a pretty major event. For these reasons I think it would scrape in under fair use. Dvmedis ( talk) 19:55, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
If I get one more agreement from anybody, I'll try and get it sorted for inclusion? Obviously I'm wary of putting anything into the article that might get speedily removed by someone else.. Dvmedis ( talk) 20:12, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
It would fail NFCC8 by a mile, trust me. Basically, the image could be replaced by a sentence, and not lose any meaning. MickMacNee ( talk) 20:18, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
The contributions about various aspects of his death seem to be spinning out of control. The contributions aren't even about his death, they are about reactions and what not from all kinds of different areas. Do we try and curtail it now or just let it grow for a week or so and then cut it all out after it calms down? Beach drifter ( talk) 19:57, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
Eventually the death/funeral section will grow so big that a new article will be required. Could Death of Michael Jackson be unblocked at some point? I attempted to start the article yesterday but it all got a bit heated! Francium12 ( talk) 19:59, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
I think at least once today someone has created it to have it either prod'd or proposed merged. I didn't follow up on it but I don't think its there. The question is, in a few months will the article still be significant? Beach drifter ( talk) 20:02, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
In the "Death" section, it links to a 6 million hit Youtube video of Thriller.
This should be changed to ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtyJbIOZjS8), which is the full 14-minute video with more than 38 million hits.
Vh1 Classic is having a weekend dedicated to Micheal it should be added to a tribute section. LifeStroke420 ( talk) 20:08, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
I don't know about anywhere else, but here in the UK, 3 of the primary channels; Sky One, Five and BBC One are all airing rushed-tribute programs TONIGHT.. It's a little unbelievable. Dvmedis ( talk) 20:10, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
On the day he died, this article received 1.4 million visits, up 70-100x normal volume. davidwr/( talk)/( contribs)/( e-mail) 20:27, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
Yeah, and it crashed the server...Great! -.- -- Frank Fontaine ( talk) 21:10, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
Re. "admitting for the first time that he had vitiligo" - should this not say "claiming for the first time that he had vitiligo"?
"Admitting" implies that it's true: "claiming" implies that it might not be. Perhaps a more neutral word like "stating" might be more appropriate? Contains Mild Peril ( talk) 10:44, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
"claimed" is one of the words to avoid, and "admit" is also there, given with caution. According to wikipedia "said" and "stated" are standard journalistic words. Therefore it should be changed to either "said" or "stated"... 208.119.72.6 ( talk) 17:48, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
Wherefore art thou???
Has the doctor been located yet?
Site says the police are preparing to interview him. I have heard that he is missing and they are trying to find him. So did they find him yet? If not, then the article needs to be edited. NiteHacker ( talk) 22:15, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
A representative of the coroner's office is currently speaking. According to their office, they will NOT be releasing a preliminary cause of death. In other words, we will not know a cause of death for 4-8 weeks. That means any cause of deaths released by the media is pure speculation and therefore are not to be posted here. Any such postings should be considered ludicrous and deleted. The coroners office also refused to comment on what prescription drugs Michael Jackson may have been taken so that further exposes that any causes of deaths posted are not legitimate. ⒺⓋⒾⓁⒼⓄⒽⒶⓃ② talk 22:28, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
There is currently an edit war going on over how many records Jackson sold. This should be addressed here and consensus arrived at, but that's obviously not happening. Who then was a gentleman? ( talk) 23:31, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
Change "The death was transferred to the Los Angeles County Coroner for investigation" to "The invegistation of the death was transferred to the Los Angeles Country Coroner for investigation" OR "The case was transferred to the Los Angeles County Coroner for investigation"... death is non-transferable... 70.71.22.45 ( talk) 00:31, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
Should we use this opportunity to correct the strange "businessman" characterization in the opening sentence? There's a lot of coverage of Michael Jackson and none that I've seen refers to him or discusses him as having been a businessman. If we're trying to note his investments in music catalogs there's certainly a more accurate way to do so. ChildofMidnight ( talk) 01:36, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
This is a record: the article Michael Jackson has been viewed more than six million times in the latest 24 hours, including redirects other than Michael jackson, in addition to the 1.5 million page views just before. So since the announcement, we should have reached the 8 million page views. Cenarium ( talk) 01:41, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
It surpassed the amount of views of the Main Page. Quite amazing. — Σ xplicit 02:20, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
Check this out: http://www.cnn.com/2009/TECH/06/26/michael.jackson.internet/index.html Sephiroth storm ( talk) 02:28, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
"Jackson was pronounced dead at about 2:26 pm local time (21:26 UTC)" -- Reuters link now is dead. Original news story was updated and exact time no more available. I just can't find another authoritative source… Trycatch ( talk) 02:21, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
I removed the following statement: "It has been reported that police are preparing to interview Michael Jackson's personal doctor after the star's family suggested he died because of a drug overdose of [[Pethidine|Demerol]], an opioid similar to morphine.<ref>{{cite news|url=http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Showbiz-News/Michael-Jackson-Dies-Of-Heart-Attack-After-Being-Rushed-To-UCLA-Hospital-In-Los-Angeles/Article/200906415319936|title=Michael Jackson Dies Of Heart Attack After Being Rushed To UCLA Hospital In Los Angeles|publisher=Sky News|date=June 26, 2009|accessdate=June 27, 2009}}</ref>" The Sky news article references TMZ as the source of this statement, TMZ has been noted above as non reliable source. Sephiroth storm ( talk) 02:25, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
I suggest adding a subcategory to 'musical style and performance' about his iconic wardrobe. The red leather zipper jacket, fedora from Smooth Criminal, maybe others could be mentioned, but it seems wrong that there's not a single reference to the signature single glove, perhaps along with (sourced) speculation as to why he had it. Pxlt ( talk) 02:27, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
Jackson has been the subject of several commemorative stamps over the years. Several magazines and book biographies document this. Uncle G ( talk) 05:13, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
Should me mention something about this? http://www.cygy.com/2009/06/lisa-marie-presley-says-michael-jackson.html 70.68.139.248 ( talk) 03:35, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
Hmmm. It may be interesting trivia for the "death" section though. Hmmm.-- The Legendary Sky Attacker 04:51, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
No. In other words, he's saying that MJ pre-empted he would die of a heart attack like Elvis did. 90.194.162.61 ( talk) 11:18, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
I've added a video file of the moonwalk. It is in ogg (as all Wikipedia media files must be) and has a strong fair use rationale. I hope this improves the article! Awadewit ( talk) 03:51, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
Check this view history out. If its not a one day record for a single page, then what is the record?-- Jojhutton ( talk) 04:10, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
I have looked over the edit history of the article, and what I found is irritating!
the article was protected when there was no reason to, after users tried adding verified information from news services that Michael Jackson had died, and for no other reason.
To those admins responsible, I would strongly suggest that you either learn not to abuse your powers or that you quit.
TSAinc ( talk) 05:55, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
I think Wikipedia has learned a valuable lesson after all this. Portillo ( talk) 10:22, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
Perhaps an entry into the controversy section of
Wikipedia's own article would be in order. That coupled with the massave spike in page views, cannot be ignored.--
Jojhutton (
talk) 13:07, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
Yes Matty, I posted that assuming that people were in fact vandalizing the article, Since it is so common for people now to speak ill of the dead in a pathetic attempt at attention.
HOWEVER, after reviewing the edits, I realized that that was not the case on this article. Which is why I posted this topic.
TSAinc ( talk) 18:23, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
Here is a news article about Michael Jackson's impact in Russia: http://www.cnn.com/2009/SHOWBIZ/Music/06/26/Michael.Jackson.russia/index.html
Where should the info go? Which article related to Jackson is the best fit for this stuff? WhisperToMe ( talk) 06:10, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
I'm so sure I remember reading an article on Wikipedia about MJ's to-be-released album. It seems to have disappeared into thin air, along with even any mention of it in any MJ related articles. Google searches don't show anything. Did I dream this, or what? 125.238.109.250 ( talk) 08:05, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
You didnt dream it. Portillo ( talk) 15:11, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
It turned out to be Thriller 25. 75.73.43.136 ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 21:31, 27 June 2009 (UTC).
It was not Thriller 25. That had already been released. 125.238.109.1 ( talk) 08:56, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
Shouldn't there be a link to his texts?
"A countertenor is a male singing voice whose vocal range is equivalent to that of a contralto, mezzo-soprano, or (less frequently) a soprano, usually through use of falsetto, or more rarely the normal or modal voice."
Please check that this is correct. Tony (talk) 09:17, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
Would it not be respectful to the children of Michael to be listed under his "Legacy" and Influence? The names of the children are already on the page and sources but listed under the Legacy title seems to be most respectful and appropriate.
(discussion continued on WikiProject Biography here)
Since first visiting this article yesterday, I noticed one of the most obvious manual of style problems in the infobox. According to Wikipedia:Naming conventions (geographic names) the proper way to display place names in the United States is to just use the City and the State. Adding the phrase "United States" or "US" after the state name is not a common practice. Saying Los Angelas, California is proper and falls in line with many years of convential wisdom. Its overkill to add the country name, since the name and the state are all that is required, and wikipedia as well as other longer and more established manual of style policies seem to agree. I did finally remove the country name per Wikipedia:Naming conventions (geographic names) and just plain common sense here, but alas, it was added back in with no explanation as to why. I hope to get other editors take on this situation in hopes to form a basis to correct the situation.-- Jojhutton ( talk) 16:08, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
So far this is the channels I have found and thought it would be helpful to post for everyone wanting to see the tributes (history, specials, etc.)...
- VH1 - They stopped - don't know when
- MTV2 - They stopped - last evening
- Fuse - They are playing until Sunday, 2pm (EDT - I think?)
- VH1C - They are playing until Sunday, 9pm (EDT?)
If there are more, please add them here... thanks!
Updated NiteHacker ( talk) 17:26, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
TMZ broke the story of Jackson being rushed to hospital in the first place. TMZ correctly reported that Jackson was dead while "reliable" media outlets were reporting that he was lingering in a coma. TMZ first reported the demerol shot, which the family has since admitted to. Seems to me that they've been the most consistenty accurate regarding Jackson's death. So why do people insist on deleting anything that comes from, or traces back to, TMZ? Sounds like pure snobbery to me. Revmagpie ( talk) 17:32, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
There seems to be an SPA attempting to insert references to the above article into this article. He has done this across several articles. The GJ article itself controversial and poorly-sourced. I've removed the sentence, but would appreciate other opinions. Unitanode 17:53, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
Note: The following post (TreadingWater 21.48) was accidentaly removed by another editor 2 minutes after it was posted. MickMacNee ( talk) 23:51, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
Well, if it's not used in the article or isn't suitable for the article... then it should be removed... as simple as that! NiteHacker ( talk) 18:05, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
This article needs a new picture the current one is over a quarter of a century old, it' s a bit silly - we should have a more recent one, I tried putting another one and was told it wasn't clear enough, we need a clear recent one then... -- Kittins floating in the sky yay ( talk) 18:01, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
Did you read the FAQ above about recent pictures? NiteHacker ( talk) 18:07, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
Michael Jackson obviously suffered from a severe Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (respectively C-PTSD). And it may have been the root cause behind his excentric personality, and in a broad sense, the main reason for his early death. In other words: I consider the matter to be a major factor concerning Michael Jackson's personality, his work, his death and his legacy. So if there's some relevant source coming up to attest it, I think the article should be completed to that effect. (sorry for my bad english) -- Marcus from Italy ( talk) 18:13, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
I know there are probably a bunch of tribute sites, I am sure, but here's a few I wanted to point out...
Sony's http://www.michaeljackson.com/ was changed to a tribute site now. You can also listen to music, view videos, read news (MJ related - don't know?) and also browse albums.
This is on Google as a sponsored site -
http://www.michaeljacksonmemorialblog.com/ - only positive tributes allowed!
If you have negative remarks, you can post them
here.
I don't know if any of these sites are going to forward the tributes to the family. I am hoping and guessing that Sony might.
If you know of any sites, feel free to post them here! Also, if you know that they are going to forward the tributes to the family, make a note of it with your post... Thanks! NiteHacker ( talk) 18:37, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
I have a few questions about this sentence from "1958–1975: Early life and The Jackson 5":
"From a young age Jackson claims he was physically and emotionally abused by his father, enduring incessant rehearsals, whippings and name-calling, but also contends that his father was a strict disciplinarian that played a large part in his success."
Leaving aside the fact that the verb tense needs to be changed, what is the role of "From a young age"? Is the sentence supposed to say that Jackson began making these claims at an early age? Or does the sentence simply mean that he claimed, at some point in his life, that his father abused him when he was a very young child?
The first ref for the sentence seems to imply the latter. The second ref doesn't point to a relevant page. Any clarification would be appreciated. Zagalejo ^^^ 21:41, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
Michael wrote or co-wrote at least half of the songs he performed. Should songwriter be added in his initial description in the first paragraph? Krobertj ( talk) 23:03, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
Yeah, I agree unless recording artist in some way covers that. Vpuliva ( talk) 23:11, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
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