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I just created this stub. We obviously should expand it. I think it is a topic worth noting seeing how there are rivalries of other teams, including the Mets and Braves. These teams playing are one of the biggest reasons why Interleague play proponents exist. When they do play in the regular season, it is as if both teams treat it as a playoff series. Arnabdas 16:11, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
I did a lot to improve it, but it is still far from good. I was wondering what else could we add? Maybe a list of players that have been on both teams? Famous New Yorkers choosing one team over the other? Definitely some of the incidents, such as the Piazza-Clemens tet a tet, should be mentioned...I just don't remember them all. Arnabdas 14:41, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
I think we should mention people whom have played or managed (or both) for both teams. I have to figure out how to do a table, but if someone can do that please edit and contribute. Arnabdas 17:19, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
The table seems to be missing both Karim Garcia, Shane Spencer, and Armando Benitez and is probably missing more. The idea of a table might be overkill. Tjrover ( talk) 03:03, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
I think the table is a cool idea, but you're right, there's definitely more missing. Claudell Washington and Gerald Williams are two more. Oh, yeah, and Josias Manzanillo and Rafael Santana... ;-) 24.189.238.109 ( talk) 03:13, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
The logos have been removed from the top of the article because those images are non-free, and they do not have a fair use rational for this article. Non-free images may only be used in an article if there is a valid fair use rational as described in WP:RAT. That being said I think the images are merely decorative and are not needed to convey any information about the subject of the article which is a rivalry. As such, I don't think they qualify for fair use regardless. 1Â != 2 16:31, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
The image Image:NLE-NYM-Logo.png is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check
This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. -- 00:01, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
I added the retired numbers of Stengel for both teams. Unfortunately, the editing went to hell. Could someone please clean it up so it is formatted better? I'm not sure how to do it... Arnabdas ( talk) 21:16, 15 July 2010 (UTC)
Jesse Orosco is missing from the table. He had a cup of coffee with the Yankees before being DFA'd in 2003, I believe it was. Kjscotte34 ( talk) 01:33, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
What the heck is "World Series Nightmares"? That looks like classic original research to me. I've removed it for now until someone can prove otherwise. Wknight94 talk 18:00, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
I've moved this article to a new name with the teams' names alphabetized, and reordered parts of the article to reflect this. NYCRuss â 14:05, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
I try to make clear that the Mets winning the 1973 NL Pennant marked the only time between 1970 and 1980 that the NL East wasn't won by either the Philadelphia Phillies or the Pittsburgh Pirates. I'm not going to mention that either team was a primary rival of the Mets; just mention that the 1973 NL Pennant was the only time between 1970 and 1980 that neither the Phillies, nor the Pirates won the NL East. â SNIyer12 (talk), 18:25, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
The phrase "moment of peace in the rivalry" is used three times in this article: (1) 1986 World Series, when Yankee fans show up to Mets' parade; (2) 2000 World Series, when both teams thank Cardinals for making Subway Series possible; (3) after the 2001 attacks. I have also seen this phrase pop up in several other rivalry articles.
Is that phrase mentioned in all of these sources? I somehow doubt it, and at worst the phrase constitutes original research, and at best is unnecessarily repetitive language. I'm going to delete it. Let the events in question speak for themselves. TempDog123 ( talk) 08:04, 9 July 2011 (UTC)
I saw there was some disagreement about the Mets win that game. The argument about the Louis Castillo game being the same thing is not something I agree with. That dropped pop up is something that never happens and that is what makes it significant that it happened in the rivalry. I think the 22 straight chances of Rivera converting could be notable, but only if it is some sort of record that was broken or some personal achievement reached. Arnabdas ( talk) 14:04, 11 July 2011 (UTC)
Basically, the reason why something should be included is some sort of notable comeback or some notable record being broken. When I first read it, I thought it said 22 straight but it actually reads 22 out of the last 23 which seems to not make it some sort of record. Of course Collins is going to say the game is "enormous" as all managers would want to win a Subway Series. If this was a turning point in the season I could also support its inclusion, but this just seems non-notable. Arnabdas ( talk) 14:08, 11 July 2011 (UTC)
Arnabdas, first of all none of that stuff about bias was addressed to you. I thought I made that clear when I said, "none of this is directed at you in particular." I was talking about the anonymous IP user who first raised the objection and felt the need to add "the Yankees still won the series 4-2," which to me sounded like a Yankee fan adding something good about the Yankees to save injured pride or something. I can't see any other reason for making the objection in the first place and then including that sentence. Maybe that's just me.
Additionally, I was being somewhat tongue-in-cheek. That's why I added the sticky tongue emoticon. Â :-P To be honest, I'd debated whether to just maintain a hardass position on this, or try breaking the ice by being more relaxed. Apparently, it is hard to do the latter because sarcasm does not always come across well on the internet. Sorry if my attempt at humor was taken the wrong way. We worked well before to resolve the dispute regarding mentioning the linking of Brooklyn Dodgers and NY Giants before, so no disrespect intended.
As to your substantive points on the other issues at hand, the best determination for notability is proper sourcing. You say a pitcher being walked in for the winning run "just doesn't happen in baseball games." Do you have a citation for that? Is there a reliable secondary source that says "it just doesn't happen in baseball games!" Because if not, then that's, like, just your opinion man. I note that the entire entry on Rivera's walk is uncited. If we are going to have a discussion about removing entries, let's start there, because it should be tagged with "citation needed" or removed entirely.
By contrast, what I proposed adding is not lacking a citation. To the contrary, it quotes the citation entirely accurately and I removed information added by the anonymous IP that was not found in the referenced source. You say it's not notable because it's a "simple comeback." The article written by the NY Times says it's notable because in 23 previous opportunities Mo converted 22 saves. That and MSNBC quote manager Terry Collins saying it was an "enormous" comeback. I even remember Keith Hernandez on SNY (probably still available on the web) saying this might be the Mets' "most important win of the season so far" since they were struggling to get above .500 and that put them right there instead of 2 games under.
So the question is, what's more notable, the unsourced paragraph or the one that I can find several citations to back up? What is a better determination of notability, the personal opinion of editors or accurately quoting several reliable secondary sources? Lack of citations and original research are MAJOR problems with this article and the related Subway Series, though the latter is much worse. TempDog123 ( talk) 16:22, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
Several aspects of this article do not meet Wikipedia's standards. I'm highlighting some of the most glaring in the hopes that fellow editors will take steps to improve upon them.
I thought I would bring this to the editors' attention before further tagging, rewriting, and/or deleting unsourced material and original research. I hope we can improve this article and Subway Series to bring them up to standard. Thanks! TempDog123 ( talk) 17:56, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
I recall a Johnny Carson monologue from the early 1960s when the Yankees were consistently the A.L. champions and the new Mets usually finished last. He lamented that the annual Yankees-Mets game had been rained out, and added "The Mets were leading 1-0. Of course, the Yankees hadn't arrived yet." WHPratt ( talk) 19:54, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
It might be worth adding that the two teams rarely trade together. Anthony McCarron put together the full list of transactions:
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This section doesn't make sense. By policy after meeting certain criteria ALL players in MLB are rated as "notable" as per Wikipedia articles created of them. Thus, this list should be comprehensive of all players who played for both teams or eliminate the section altogether. 161.185.151.51 ( talk) 22:07, 20 July 2017 (UTC)
Could someone explain for the non-US reader what this means:
The 12.4 television rating and 21 share of the 2000 World Series was the worst in history when it was played. For the Mets, the 12.4 rating was less than half of what they were when during their previous appearance, when Game 7 drew a 38.9 rating and 55 share. Redpaul1 ( talk) 11:32, 25 June 2024 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
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I just created this stub. We obviously should expand it. I think it is a topic worth noting seeing how there are rivalries of other teams, including the Mets and Braves. These teams playing are one of the biggest reasons why Interleague play proponents exist. When they do play in the regular season, it is as if both teams treat it as a playoff series. Arnabdas 16:11, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
I did a lot to improve it, but it is still far from good. I was wondering what else could we add? Maybe a list of players that have been on both teams? Famous New Yorkers choosing one team over the other? Definitely some of the incidents, such as the Piazza-Clemens tet a tet, should be mentioned...I just don't remember them all. Arnabdas 14:41, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
I think we should mention people whom have played or managed (or both) for both teams. I have to figure out how to do a table, but if someone can do that please edit and contribute. Arnabdas 17:19, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
The table seems to be missing both Karim Garcia, Shane Spencer, and Armando Benitez and is probably missing more. The idea of a table might be overkill. Tjrover ( talk) 03:03, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
I think the table is a cool idea, but you're right, there's definitely more missing. Claudell Washington and Gerald Williams are two more. Oh, yeah, and Josias Manzanillo and Rafael Santana... ;-) 24.189.238.109 ( talk) 03:13, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
The logos have been removed from the top of the article because those images are non-free, and they do not have a fair use rational for this article. Non-free images may only be used in an article if there is a valid fair use rational as described in WP:RAT. That being said I think the images are merely decorative and are not needed to convey any information about the subject of the article which is a rivalry. As such, I don't think they qualify for fair use regardless. 1Â != 2 16:31, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
The image Image:NLE-NYM-Logo.png is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check
This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. -- 00:01, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
I added the retired numbers of Stengel for both teams. Unfortunately, the editing went to hell. Could someone please clean it up so it is formatted better? I'm not sure how to do it... Arnabdas ( talk) 21:16, 15 July 2010 (UTC)
Jesse Orosco is missing from the table. He had a cup of coffee with the Yankees before being DFA'd in 2003, I believe it was. Kjscotte34 ( talk) 01:33, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
What the heck is "World Series Nightmares"? That looks like classic original research to me. I've removed it for now until someone can prove otherwise. Wknight94 talk 18:00, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
I've moved this article to a new name with the teams' names alphabetized, and reordered parts of the article to reflect this. NYCRuss â 14:05, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
I try to make clear that the Mets winning the 1973 NL Pennant marked the only time between 1970 and 1980 that the NL East wasn't won by either the Philadelphia Phillies or the Pittsburgh Pirates. I'm not going to mention that either team was a primary rival of the Mets; just mention that the 1973 NL Pennant was the only time between 1970 and 1980 that neither the Phillies, nor the Pirates won the NL East. â SNIyer12 (talk), 18:25, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
The phrase "moment of peace in the rivalry" is used three times in this article: (1) 1986 World Series, when Yankee fans show up to Mets' parade; (2) 2000 World Series, when both teams thank Cardinals for making Subway Series possible; (3) after the 2001 attacks. I have also seen this phrase pop up in several other rivalry articles.
Is that phrase mentioned in all of these sources? I somehow doubt it, and at worst the phrase constitutes original research, and at best is unnecessarily repetitive language. I'm going to delete it. Let the events in question speak for themselves. TempDog123 ( talk) 08:04, 9 July 2011 (UTC)
I saw there was some disagreement about the Mets win that game. The argument about the Louis Castillo game being the same thing is not something I agree with. That dropped pop up is something that never happens and that is what makes it significant that it happened in the rivalry. I think the 22 straight chances of Rivera converting could be notable, but only if it is some sort of record that was broken or some personal achievement reached. Arnabdas ( talk) 14:04, 11 July 2011 (UTC)
Basically, the reason why something should be included is some sort of notable comeback or some notable record being broken. When I first read it, I thought it said 22 straight but it actually reads 22 out of the last 23 which seems to not make it some sort of record. Of course Collins is going to say the game is "enormous" as all managers would want to win a Subway Series. If this was a turning point in the season I could also support its inclusion, but this just seems non-notable. Arnabdas ( talk) 14:08, 11 July 2011 (UTC)
Arnabdas, first of all none of that stuff about bias was addressed to you. I thought I made that clear when I said, "none of this is directed at you in particular." I was talking about the anonymous IP user who first raised the objection and felt the need to add "the Yankees still won the series 4-2," which to me sounded like a Yankee fan adding something good about the Yankees to save injured pride or something. I can't see any other reason for making the objection in the first place and then including that sentence. Maybe that's just me.
Additionally, I was being somewhat tongue-in-cheek. That's why I added the sticky tongue emoticon. Â :-P To be honest, I'd debated whether to just maintain a hardass position on this, or try breaking the ice by being more relaxed. Apparently, it is hard to do the latter because sarcasm does not always come across well on the internet. Sorry if my attempt at humor was taken the wrong way. We worked well before to resolve the dispute regarding mentioning the linking of Brooklyn Dodgers and NY Giants before, so no disrespect intended.
As to your substantive points on the other issues at hand, the best determination for notability is proper sourcing. You say a pitcher being walked in for the winning run "just doesn't happen in baseball games." Do you have a citation for that? Is there a reliable secondary source that says "it just doesn't happen in baseball games!" Because if not, then that's, like, just your opinion man. I note that the entire entry on Rivera's walk is uncited. If we are going to have a discussion about removing entries, let's start there, because it should be tagged with "citation needed" or removed entirely.
By contrast, what I proposed adding is not lacking a citation. To the contrary, it quotes the citation entirely accurately and I removed information added by the anonymous IP that was not found in the referenced source. You say it's not notable because it's a "simple comeback." The article written by the NY Times says it's notable because in 23 previous opportunities Mo converted 22 saves. That and MSNBC quote manager Terry Collins saying it was an "enormous" comeback. I even remember Keith Hernandez on SNY (probably still available on the web) saying this might be the Mets' "most important win of the season so far" since they were struggling to get above .500 and that put them right there instead of 2 games under.
So the question is, what's more notable, the unsourced paragraph or the one that I can find several citations to back up? What is a better determination of notability, the personal opinion of editors or accurately quoting several reliable secondary sources? Lack of citations and original research are MAJOR problems with this article and the related Subway Series, though the latter is much worse. TempDog123 ( talk) 16:22, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
Several aspects of this article do not meet Wikipedia's standards. I'm highlighting some of the most glaring in the hopes that fellow editors will take steps to improve upon them.
I thought I would bring this to the editors' attention before further tagging, rewriting, and/or deleting unsourced material and original research. I hope we can improve this article and Subway Series to bring them up to standard. Thanks! TempDog123 ( talk) 17:56, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
I recall a Johnny Carson monologue from the early 1960s when the Yankees were consistently the A.L. champions and the new Mets usually finished last. He lamented that the annual Yankees-Mets game had been rained out, and added "The Mets were leading 1-0. Of course, the Yankees hadn't arrived yet." WHPratt ( talk) 19:54, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
It might be worth adding that the two teams rarely trade together. Anthony McCarron put together the full list of transactions:
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on MetsâYankees rivalry. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.â InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 10:17, 12 January 2017 (UTC)
This section doesn't make sense. By policy after meeting certain criteria ALL players in MLB are rated as "notable" as per Wikipedia articles created of them. Thus, this list should be comprehensive of all players who played for both teams or eliminate the section altogether. 161.185.151.51 ( talk) 22:07, 20 July 2017 (UTC)
Could someone explain for the non-US reader what this means:
The 12.4 television rating and 21 share of the 2000 World Series was the worst in history when it was played. For the Mets, the 12.4 rating was less than half of what they were when during their previous appearance, when Game 7 drew a 38.9 rating and 55 share. Redpaul1 ( talk) 11:32, 25 June 2024 (UTC)