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I just would like your thoughts if this should be added about the sweep by the Phillies against the Mets to keep them from clinching:
"However, before the series, Phillies Manager John Felske and the players, including reliever Kent Tekulve, Mike Schmidt, and Von Hayes said that they wanted to keep the Mets from clinching in Philadelphia, because they got swept in a preceding series in Chicago against the Chicago Cubs. Sources: Cubs Hands Phils 3rd Loss in a Row, September 11, 1986, by Peter Pascarelli, Philadelphia Inquirer, page D1. Quote: The Phils now must shut the Mets down in three straight games to avoid watching a division-title celebration on their own turf. Also Mets Set to Clinch Vs. Phils, September 12, 1986, by Peter Pascarelli, Philadelphia Inquirer, page D1. Quote: "The Mets' magic number is down to 2...It would be the first division championship ever clinched at the Vet, and the Phillies would love to prevent it from happening. However, after losing three straight in Chicago...the Phils have to sweep the series...to prevent the Mets from clinching in Philadelphia...'To keep them from clinching at the Vet, we needed to do something in Chicago, and we didn't,' said reliever Kent Tekulve, who lost the third game at Wrigley Field." -- SNIyer12, (talk), 23:21, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
I know that the Mets took 8 of 12 games from the Phillies that season, but at this time, we don't plan to put in information that one of those wins was the longest scoreless Opening Day game in the National League. I think it's unnecessary at this time, even though it was a notable moment in the rivalry. I do have sources for it, but let's not put in the information at this time. -- SNIyer12, (talk), 21:13, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
I know that both the Mets and the Phillies were eliminated from playoff contention during the final week of the 2005 season and I have sources for it, but let's not add that information in the article. I've asked that no one add that information, as it's unncessary. Anyone who wants information on that can go to 2005 New York Mets season or 2005 Philadelphia Phillies season. -- SNIyer12, (talk), 16:09, 9 December 2010 (UTC)
Let's not add any information about the 2011 season and the 2010-11 offseason details, including the changes both teams made at this time. I know that there are some changes, but I don't feel it should be added at this time. -- SNIyer12, (talk), 19:15, 9 December 2010 (UTC)
I had to clarify the sources for the quotes about the planned clincher by the Mets, as both the Associated Press and The Philadelphia Inquirer had different quotes. -- SNIyer12, (talk), 15;17, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
I've requested that no one put details about the way Mets broadcaster Bob Murphy announcing the end of a game on July 25, 1990 becoming one of his memorable broadcasting moments as a notable moment in the rivalry. Please refer to the article on Bob Murphy to get more details about it: The Mets taking a 10â3 lead into the ninth inning, but the Phillies hitting seven straight singles, a walk, and six runs to cut the lead to one before the Mets got the three outs. The game ending saying: "A line drive caught. The game is over. The Mets win it. A line drive to Mario Diaz. And the Mets win the ballgame! They win the damn thing by a score of 10 to 9!" â SNIyer12, (talk), 18:09 13 March 2011 (UTC)
How was this a cause of a rivalry between the Mets and Phillies? There are no sources that indicate this as a cause, so it seems to be original research. Plus, it doesn't even appear to be logical. Can someone please explain this to me? Ultimahero ( talk) 05:21, 9 June 2011 (UTC)
Otherwise, I'm just going to delete it on the basis of it being unsourced and original research. Ultimahero ( talk) 05:23, 9 June 2011 (UTC)
It seems that the article focuses to heavily on the last few years. For example, the 1991-1994 has a nine line paragraph, while 2009 has 4 paragraphs totaling 29 lines. The 2010 section has 8 paragraphs totaling 35 lines. Doesn't this seem a bit out of proportion? Now, obviously some years will be more intense than others, but would anyone really call 2009 or 2010 highlights in the Mets-Phillies rivalry? This seems nonsensical when you consider that in 2009 the Phillies finished 23 games ahead of New York, and in 2010 the Phillies finished 18 games ahead of the Mets. Not exactly the most competitive season. Basically, these sections detail every single series throughout the course of the year when there's no need to. I propose drastically reducing the content there and even merging 2009-2011 into a single section. Ultimahero ( talk) 16:49, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
Hello KV5, we briefly corresponded regarding the Phillies-Pirates rivalry. I have similar but somewhat different concerns as Ultimahero, which I was expressing on Talk:New York Mets. User:SNIyer12 suggested that I contact you for some reason, and this seemed to be the most appropriate place and time to do it.
I also have fear
Wikipedia:Recentism with respect to the
Mets-Phillies rivalry article. While I believe you are correct that the rivalry is something that has truly developed in recent years, my fear is that on several other pages there have been sentences suggesting that these two teams have always been primary rivals. I found and removed such sentences, for instance, from
Mets-Braves rivalry, because really the Phillies had nothing to do with the rivalry between the Mets and Braves between approximately 98-01. I see this article has a GA assessment, and frankly deserves it because it's in better shape than many rivalry articles. But I'm worried that this recent rivalry, because it has gotten press in the past few years, is being blown out of historical proportion when Mets-Phillies has never been this heated in the past, and I have seen no pre-2006 citations standing for the assertion that Mets-Phillies were always "primary rivals." Thanks.
TempDog123 (
talk)
07:33, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
I don't think the source from Forbes, "In Depth: Baseball's Most Intense Rivalry", should be utilized because it's not a good source. There are multiple problems with it.
Thus I see no reason to view this source as having any weight for Wikipedia and would request that we remove it. Ultimahero ( talk) 09:28, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
This section seems to be the product of original research. The article seems to imply that the the Phillies wanted to capitalize on the lack of a NL team in New York, possibly by moving closer. Then, when Shea stepped in a new NL team was created that occupied NY. So the implication would seem to be that the Phillies ownership were bitter at Shea and the Mets for getting in their way. However, this is never stated in the article so it's unclear how this impacted the supposed rivalry. There are no quotes saying that the Phillies were mad afterwards. So trying to connect this to the rivalry seems to be original research.I've blocked it out (not deleted it) just like the racism section until sources can prove this. Ultimahero ( talk) 00:41, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
This section is also the product of original research. It suggests that past Phillies matchups between them and the Dodgers, Giants or Yankees impacted the rivalry with the Mets. However, there are no sources to back this up. (There is a source, The Playoff and Word Series Index, which confirms that the teams played each other, but no source that confirms a rivalry grew from those matchups.) It's a unsubstantiated assertion. Further, the article attempts to imply that rivalries from other sports (Eagles/Giants or Rangers/Flyers) somehow has an impact on this MLB matchup. However, there are once again no sources that back that claim up. It just a baseless assertion. Without competent sources this section should not remain. I've blocked it out (not deleted it) just like the racism section until sources can prove this. Ultimahero ( talk) 00:49, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
Phillies matchups between them and the Dodgers, Giants, or Yankees did not have an impact on the rivalry with the Mets. Many links I found also make evident that the other New YorkâPhiladelphia showdowns in other sports have an impact on the matchup. I've seen that the fans from both cities dislike each other. They also say that be it be MetsâPhillies, GiantsâEagles, or RangersâFlyers, showdowns between New York and Philadelphia teams are often very intense, hard hitting affairs. â SNIyer12, (talk), 16:15, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
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I just would like your thoughts if this should be added about the sweep by the Phillies against the Mets to keep them from clinching:
"However, before the series, Phillies Manager John Felske and the players, including reliever Kent Tekulve, Mike Schmidt, and Von Hayes said that they wanted to keep the Mets from clinching in Philadelphia, because they got swept in a preceding series in Chicago against the Chicago Cubs. Sources: Cubs Hands Phils 3rd Loss in a Row, September 11, 1986, by Peter Pascarelli, Philadelphia Inquirer, page D1. Quote: The Phils now must shut the Mets down in three straight games to avoid watching a division-title celebration on their own turf. Also Mets Set to Clinch Vs. Phils, September 12, 1986, by Peter Pascarelli, Philadelphia Inquirer, page D1. Quote: "The Mets' magic number is down to 2...It would be the first division championship ever clinched at the Vet, and the Phillies would love to prevent it from happening. However, after losing three straight in Chicago...the Phils have to sweep the series...to prevent the Mets from clinching in Philadelphia...'To keep them from clinching at the Vet, we needed to do something in Chicago, and we didn't,' said reliever Kent Tekulve, who lost the third game at Wrigley Field." -- SNIyer12, (talk), 23:21, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
I know that the Mets took 8 of 12 games from the Phillies that season, but at this time, we don't plan to put in information that one of those wins was the longest scoreless Opening Day game in the National League. I think it's unnecessary at this time, even though it was a notable moment in the rivalry. I do have sources for it, but let's not put in the information at this time. -- SNIyer12, (talk), 21:13, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
I know that both the Mets and the Phillies were eliminated from playoff contention during the final week of the 2005 season and I have sources for it, but let's not add that information in the article. I've asked that no one add that information, as it's unncessary. Anyone who wants information on that can go to 2005 New York Mets season or 2005 Philadelphia Phillies season. -- SNIyer12, (talk), 16:09, 9 December 2010 (UTC)
Let's not add any information about the 2011 season and the 2010-11 offseason details, including the changes both teams made at this time. I know that there are some changes, but I don't feel it should be added at this time. -- SNIyer12, (talk), 19:15, 9 December 2010 (UTC)
I had to clarify the sources for the quotes about the planned clincher by the Mets, as both the Associated Press and The Philadelphia Inquirer had different quotes. -- SNIyer12, (talk), 15;17, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
I've requested that no one put details about the way Mets broadcaster Bob Murphy announcing the end of a game on July 25, 1990 becoming one of his memorable broadcasting moments as a notable moment in the rivalry. Please refer to the article on Bob Murphy to get more details about it: The Mets taking a 10â3 lead into the ninth inning, but the Phillies hitting seven straight singles, a walk, and six runs to cut the lead to one before the Mets got the three outs. The game ending saying: "A line drive caught. The game is over. The Mets win it. A line drive to Mario Diaz. And the Mets win the ballgame! They win the damn thing by a score of 10 to 9!" â SNIyer12, (talk), 18:09 13 March 2011 (UTC)
How was this a cause of a rivalry between the Mets and Phillies? There are no sources that indicate this as a cause, so it seems to be original research. Plus, it doesn't even appear to be logical. Can someone please explain this to me? Ultimahero ( talk) 05:21, 9 June 2011 (UTC)
Otherwise, I'm just going to delete it on the basis of it being unsourced and original research. Ultimahero ( talk) 05:23, 9 June 2011 (UTC)
It seems that the article focuses to heavily on the last few years. For example, the 1991-1994 has a nine line paragraph, while 2009 has 4 paragraphs totaling 29 lines. The 2010 section has 8 paragraphs totaling 35 lines. Doesn't this seem a bit out of proportion? Now, obviously some years will be more intense than others, but would anyone really call 2009 or 2010 highlights in the Mets-Phillies rivalry? This seems nonsensical when you consider that in 2009 the Phillies finished 23 games ahead of New York, and in 2010 the Phillies finished 18 games ahead of the Mets. Not exactly the most competitive season. Basically, these sections detail every single series throughout the course of the year when there's no need to. I propose drastically reducing the content there and even merging 2009-2011 into a single section. Ultimahero ( talk) 16:49, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
Hello KV5, we briefly corresponded regarding the Phillies-Pirates rivalry. I have similar but somewhat different concerns as Ultimahero, which I was expressing on Talk:New York Mets. User:SNIyer12 suggested that I contact you for some reason, and this seemed to be the most appropriate place and time to do it.
I also have fear
Wikipedia:Recentism with respect to the
Mets-Phillies rivalry article. While I believe you are correct that the rivalry is something that has truly developed in recent years, my fear is that on several other pages there have been sentences suggesting that these two teams have always been primary rivals. I found and removed such sentences, for instance, from
Mets-Braves rivalry, because really the Phillies had nothing to do with the rivalry between the Mets and Braves between approximately 98-01. I see this article has a GA assessment, and frankly deserves it because it's in better shape than many rivalry articles. But I'm worried that this recent rivalry, because it has gotten press in the past few years, is being blown out of historical proportion when Mets-Phillies has never been this heated in the past, and I have seen no pre-2006 citations standing for the assertion that Mets-Phillies were always "primary rivals." Thanks.
TempDog123 (
talk)
07:33, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
I don't think the source from Forbes, "In Depth: Baseball's Most Intense Rivalry", should be utilized because it's not a good source. There are multiple problems with it.
Thus I see no reason to view this source as having any weight for Wikipedia and would request that we remove it. Ultimahero ( talk) 09:28, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
This section seems to be the product of original research. The article seems to imply that the the Phillies wanted to capitalize on the lack of a NL team in New York, possibly by moving closer. Then, when Shea stepped in a new NL team was created that occupied NY. So the implication would seem to be that the Phillies ownership were bitter at Shea and the Mets for getting in their way. However, this is never stated in the article so it's unclear how this impacted the supposed rivalry. There are no quotes saying that the Phillies were mad afterwards. So trying to connect this to the rivalry seems to be original research.I've blocked it out (not deleted it) just like the racism section until sources can prove this. Ultimahero ( talk) 00:41, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
This section is also the product of original research. It suggests that past Phillies matchups between them and the Dodgers, Giants or Yankees impacted the rivalry with the Mets. However, there are no sources to back this up. (There is a source, The Playoff and Word Series Index, which confirms that the teams played each other, but no source that confirms a rivalry grew from those matchups.) It's a unsubstantiated assertion. Further, the article attempts to imply that rivalries from other sports (Eagles/Giants or Rangers/Flyers) somehow has an impact on this MLB matchup. However, there are once again no sources that back that claim up. It just a baseless assertion. Without competent sources this section should not remain. I've blocked it out (not deleted it) just like the racism section until sources can prove this. Ultimahero ( talk) 00:49, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
Phillies matchups between them and the Dodgers, Giants, or Yankees did not have an impact on the rivalry with the Mets. Many links I found also make evident that the other New YorkâPhiladelphia showdowns in other sports have an impact on the matchup. I've seen that the fans from both cities dislike each other. They also say that be it be MetsâPhillies, GiantsâEagles, or RangersâFlyers, showdowns between New York and Philadelphia teams are often very intense, hard hitting affairs. â SNIyer12, (talk), 16:15, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
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