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Perhaps some information on where its currently used? (IE practical applications of Mesa that exist)
I'd like to point out that the single item in the Disadvantages section is incorrect. Mesa started as a software renderer, but it is now used as the OpenGL-compatible frontend on many hardware drivers. OpenGL is more than just an interface to the hardware, it's a complex state machine and it would be pointless for every hardware driver/manufacturer to reimplement the "frontend". The DRI drivers use the Mesa code for their libGL and the parts that need software emulation. Even before DRI, there were a few hardware drivers included in the Mesa source e.g The 3dfx Voodoo I/II drivers. IIRC, Brian Paul even wrote most of Mesa with the intent of one day driving hardware, so adding the hardware drivers was relatively simple. Imroy 13:51, 2005 Jun 8 (UTC)
Ok, I finally removed the "Disadvantages" section because no-one else had. It only had one item and it was totally false. Apparently 65.26.235.246 didn't even read the Mesa FAQ when he wrote the original:
1.2 Does Mesa support/use graphics hardware?
Yes. Specifically, Mesa serves as the OpenGL core for the open-source XFree86/DRI OpenGL drivers. See the DRI website for more information.
There have been other hardware drivers for Mesa over the years (such as the 3Dfx Glide/Voodoo driver, an old S3 driver, etc) but the DRI drivers are the modern ones.
Imroy July 6, 2005 14:27 (UTC)
gNewSense had to remove it, Debian also has a running discussion on it: [ [1]], [ [2]], [ [3]], [ [4]] bkil ( talk) 16:28, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
Of course Mesa is Free and open source software (take a look at this page
Debian Packages , it is released under the
MIT License. The first link you give is 5 years old, and those refers to XFree86.--
190.10.167.48 (
talk)
17:47, 16 August 2008 (UTC)
Quote from http://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.html :
SGI Free Software License B, version 1.1 The SGI Free Software License B, although its name says “free”, is not a free software License. [...]
bkil ( talk) 18:12, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
I've received no response from the given editor, and so I've taken the liberty to insert a sentence on the issue. A similarly passive mentality resulted in the problem being "forgotten" for so many years. And by the way, the first link is not from 5 years ago, you would have noticed that if you had given it a few minutes. bkil ( talk) 11:31, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
Oops... sorry for that issue with 'its.' :) I'll try to pay more attention next time. bkil ( talk) 18:16, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
Recently the licensing issues have been resolved
[5], therefore the "not free software" note can be removed. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Potatobackwards (
talk •
contribs)
18:51, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
Can someone say a few words about the relations between Mesa 3D and GLX? Thanks, -- Abdull ( talk) 13:12, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
Is there a reason the title isn't "Mesa 3D"? — danhash ( talk) 13:31, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
Greetings,
This is my first post to any "talk" page so be kind (even if maybe it seems that I am not).
I just felt compelled to note that the final paragraph in the "History" segment of this article really ought to be rewritten by someone who speaks English. OK, sorry. I don't mean to be a wise-ass. It's just that the verbiage in that paragraph, particularly the first sentence of the paragraph, definitely needs work. I started to try to just simply clean up the English usage in that paragraph myself, but then I realized that I could not effectively do so for the simple reasons that (a) I have little or no knowledge of the subject matter in the first place and also (b) I can't even totally puzzle out what exactly the original author was even _trying_ to say in the paragraph in question. (I can't paraphrase or re-write something that's not even entirely comprehensible in the first place.)
So I guess that the original author is/was trying to say that Mesa is composed of pieces (which he calls "components" in one place and "modules" elsewhere in the same paragraph) and that the interfaces between the pieces are generally stable, and that this fact in turn allows the separate pieces to evolve on their own while still inter-operating with the whole.
Basically, it appears that this entire paragraph is only there so that the author could say (in effect, and three separate times in three separate and different ways) that the parts of Mesa can and have evolved separately.
Separate sub-components and stable internal interfaces are not exactly novel concepts, so I'm kind of left wondering why this aspect of Mesa is even worthy of special mention, let alone why it might best appear in a "History" section, of all places.
As I say, I would be happy to take a whack at revising this paragraph myself, but I thought that I should post here first and see what people who know the subject matter better than I do... which is to say everybody... might have to say.
Rfg-ronbaby ( talk) 20:53, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
I don't think the above is relevant to this article given that ALSA is for sound drivers and nothing to do with graphics. 86.186.132.36 ( talk) 11:34, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
The en-coding as well as the de-coding of the data, that is the application of the codec, that is the execution of its implementation, cost huge amount of CPU time, thus some of the operation have either been outsourced to the GPU (this can consume huge amounts of electrical current) or implemented into silicon. For example, the Radeon HD 2600 had so much computation power, that AMD decided to omit the UVD core and as a result, viewing a video on such a graphics cards, requires the hardware driver to implement the codec in software and also consumes a lot more electrical current.
Semiconductor intellectual property core for the decoding:
Semiconductor intellectual property core for the encoding:
Available APIs for the decoding or the encoding of videos are:
What are these and how do they relate to Mesa, the video compression codec SIP cores and application software? The Video APIs are meant to simplify access of programs to the Video-related parts of the GPUs. There are more then the three mentioned above, but AFAIK only two are relevant for Mesa. A Video API should related to Video player, as the OpenGL API relates to a game engine. It connects the player to the device driver.
Is it correct that the development of some code was financed by crowdfunding? See http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTQyMTY User:ScotXW t@lk 20:54, 7 June 2014 (UTC)
On the onset of Mesa 11.0's release, this article needs to accommodate more info about Mesa 11.0. Whether it is something unclear on the talk about Mesa or this article, but I think a section about 11.0 should be added, as well as clarification that later versions of OpenGL won't affect all drivers. Vormeph 20:41, 26 August 2015 (UTC)
I suggest we compact the version table, dropping al minor (.x) releases. They provide no extra information, because the supported OpenGL, EGL, etc versions are equal across the major release. The result would look like this:
API | OpenGL | OpenGL ES | OpenVG | EGL | GLX | Direct3D | ||
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Version | Date | 4.5 2014-08-11 |
3.2 2015-08-10 |
1.1 2008-12-03 |
1.5 2014-03-19 |
1.4 2005-12-16 |
11.2 2013-10-17 | |
11 | 2015-09-11 | 4.2 (Intel 3.3) | 3.0 | — | 1.5 | 1.4 | 9.0c | |
10 | 2013-11-30 | 3.3 | 3.0 | 1.1 | 1.4 | 1.4 | 9.0c | |
9 | 2012-10-08 | 3.1 | 2.0 | 1.1 | 1.4 | 1.4 | — | |
8 | 2012-02-08 | 3.0 | 2.0 | 1.1 | 1.4 | 1.4 | — | |
7 | 2007-06-22 | 2.1 | — | — | — | 1.4 | — | |
6 | 2004-01-06 | 1.5 | — | — | — | 1.3 | — | |
5 | 2002-11-13 | 1.4 | — | — | — | 1.3 | — | |
4 | 2001-10-22 | 1.3 | — | — | — | 1.3 | — | |
Legend: Old version Older version, still maintained Latest version Future release |
What do you think? Lonaowna ( talk) 12:14, 15 September 2015 (UTC)
I reverted the change of Vulkan support in Mesa 11.2 as Jason Ekstrand from intel wrote that it will still need a few weeks and will end up in 11.3 at the earliest, since 11.2 will be branched tomorrow and only bugfixes allowed after that.
I question the inclusion of Vulkan in the API table as well, since there will be no shared libraries between drivers like for the other APIs, which means it's up to each driver to implement Vulkan. -- Lightkey ( talk) 16:53, 18 February 2016 (UTC)
New Software Rasterizer for Cluster with much more Performance.
See http://openswr.org and http://openswr.org/perf.html and actual https://mesamatrix.net For more. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.67.31.234 ( talk) 11:06, 24 May 2016 (UTC)
http://mesa3d.org/relnotes/13.0.1.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.90.229.157 ( talk) 19:12, 15 November 2016 (UTC)
Today available 13.0.2 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.90.229.183 ( talk) 19:10, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
13.0.4 available — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:810B:C53F:B9E8:85D9:2504:AD1C:1E67 ( talk) 15:43, 1 February 2017 (UTC)
So a Table with some Mesa versions, OpenGL Version and Hardware line is a nice new Option.
Same for OpenGL ES Version and new Vulkan.
see
http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=mesa-172-features&num=1 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:810B:C53F:B9E8:256F:74C8:49C0:C961 ( talk) 23:19, 29 August 2017 (UTC)
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See
https://www.x.org/wiki/Events/XDC2017/nasri_mesa.pdf — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:810B:C53F:B9E8:D54B:B274:9D38:538C ( talk) 18:47, 21 March 2018 (UTC)
End of Bugfix in 17.3 actual extended to 17.3.9 in calendar Of project — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.90.228.26 ( talk) 10:45, 23 March 2018 (UTC)
See Text in 18.0.0 and or 17.0.0 or 17.0.1 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:810B:C53F:B9E8:C0BA:6AEB:67C7:BC7D ( talk) 17:09, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
Next actual stable is 18.3.1 not 18.3.0 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.223.153.172 ( talk) 22:01, 9 December 2018 (UTC)
Table should be
Hardware firm like Intel Line like Haswell Version Mesa like 18.0 Supported Version OpenGL here 4.5
Same for OpenGL ES and Vulkan and the other api.
1st Source of info about this is https://people.freedesktop.org/~imirkin/glxinfo/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:810B:C53F:B9E8:741C:E0A5:AD9C:3E92 ( talk) 10:55, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
And mesamatrix
https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Mesa_%28computer_graphics%29&diff=prev&oldid=1013404435 It seems to either have some bad typos or be written by someone who mostly speaks german. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.27.77.211 ( talk) 09:27, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
een looking for a good place to ocument issues within a server whether it be long running source code, or improper use of Apache licensing for wearbles and near by devices. Frm blink ccessibility issues t improper data removal and manpulation. Idealbrocolli ( talk) 23:58, 11 November 2022 (UTC)
See
https://www.phoronix.com/news/OpenGL-4.5-D3D12-Mesa
and mesamatrix. 2A02:6D40:34BF:4001:3055:5E84:CA88:68EB ( talk) 12:25, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
The infobox field for preview release screwed up. No idea on how to fix. Any help is welcome. NasssaNser talk 14:26, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Mesa (computer graphics) article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | The contents of the Gallium3D page were merged into Mesa (computer graphics). For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected page, please see its history; for the discussion at that location, see its talk page. (12 September 2017) |
Perhaps some information on where its currently used? (IE practical applications of Mesa that exist)
I'd like to point out that the single item in the Disadvantages section is incorrect. Mesa started as a software renderer, but it is now used as the OpenGL-compatible frontend on many hardware drivers. OpenGL is more than just an interface to the hardware, it's a complex state machine and it would be pointless for every hardware driver/manufacturer to reimplement the "frontend". The DRI drivers use the Mesa code for their libGL and the parts that need software emulation. Even before DRI, there were a few hardware drivers included in the Mesa source e.g The 3dfx Voodoo I/II drivers. IIRC, Brian Paul even wrote most of Mesa with the intent of one day driving hardware, so adding the hardware drivers was relatively simple. Imroy 13:51, 2005 Jun 8 (UTC)
Ok, I finally removed the "Disadvantages" section because no-one else had. It only had one item and it was totally false. Apparently 65.26.235.246 didn't even read the Mesa FAQ when he wrote the original:
1.2 Does Mesa support/use graphics hardware?
Yes. Specifically, Mesa serves as the OpenGL core for the open-source XFree86/DRI OpenGL drivers. See the DRI website for more information.
There have been other hardware drivers for Mesa over the years (such as the 3Dfx Glide/Voodoo driver, an old S3 driver, etc) but the DRI drivers are the modern ones.
Imroy July 6, 2005 14:27 (UTC)
gNewSense had to remove it, Debian also has a running discussion on it: [ [1]], [ [2]], [ [3]], [ [4]] bkil ( talk) 16:28, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
Of course Mesa is Free and open source software (take a look at this page
Debian Packages , it is released under the
MIT License. The first link you give is 5 years old, and those refers to XFree86.--
190.10.167.48 (
talk)
17:47, 16 August 2008 (UTC)
Quote from http://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.html :
SGI Free Software License B, version 1.1 The SGI Free Software License B, although its name says “free”, is not a free software License. [...]
bkil ( talk) 18:12, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
I've received no response from the given editor, and so I've taken the liberty to insert a sentence on the issue. A similarly passive mentality resulted in the problem being "forgotten" for so many years. And by the way, the first link is not from 5 years ago, you would have noticed that if you had given it a few minutes. bkil ( talk) 11:31, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
Oops... sorry for that issue with 'its.' :) I'll try to pay more attention next time. bkil ( talk) 18:16, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
Recently the licensing issues have been resolved
[5], therefore the "not free software" note can be removed. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Potatobackwards (
talk •
contribs)
18:51, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
Can someone say a few words about the relations between Mesa 3D and GLX? Thanks, -- Abdull ( talk) 13:12, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
Is there a reason the title isn't "Mesa 3D"? — danhash ( talk) 13:31, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
Greetings,
This is my first post to any "talk" page so be kind (even if maybe it seems that I am not).
I just felt compelled to note that the final paragraph in the "History" segment of this article really ought to be rewritten by someone who speaks English. OK, sorry. I don't mean to be a wise-ass. It's just that the verbiage in that paragraph, particularly the first sentence of the paragraph, definitely needs work. I started to try to just simply clean up the English usage in that paragraph myself, but then I realized that I could not effectively do so for the simple reasons that (a) I have little or no knowledge of the subject matter in the first place and also (b) I can't even totally puzzle out what exactly the original author was even _trying_ to say in the paragraph in question. (I can't paraphrase or re-write something that's not even entirely comprehensible in the first place.)
So I guess that the original author is/was trying to say that Mesa is composed of pieces (which he calls "components" in one place and "modules" elsewhere in the same paragraph) and that the interfaces between the pieces are generally stable, and that this fact in turn allows the separate pieces to evolve on their own while still inter-operating with the whole.
Basically, it appears that this entire paragraph is only there so that the author could say (in effect, and three separate times in three separate and different ways) that the parts of Mesa can and have evolved separately.
Separate sub-components and stable internal interfaces are not exactly novel concepts, so I'm kind of left wondering why this aspect of Mesa is even worthy of special mention, let alone why it might best appear in a "History" section, of all places.
As I say, I would be happy to take a whack at revising this paragraph myself, but I thought that I should post here first and see what people who know the subject matter better than I do... which is to say everybody... might have to say.
Rfg-ronbaby ( talk) 20:53, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
I don't think the above is relevant to this article given that ALSA is for sound drivers and nothing to do with graphics. 86.186.132.36 ( talk) 11:34, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
The en-coding as well as the de-coding of the data, that is the application of the codec, that is the execution of its implementation, cost huge amount of CPU time, thus some of the operation have either been outsourced to the GPU (this can consume huge amounts of electrical current) or implemented into silicon. For example, the Radeon HD 2600 had so much computation power, that AMD decided to omit the UVD core and as a result, viewing a video on such a graphics cards, requires the hardware driver to implement the codec in software and also consumes a lot more electrical current.
Semiconductor intellectual property core for the decoding:
Semiconductor intellectual property core for the encoding:
Available APIs for the decoding or the encoding of videos are:
What are these and how do they relate to Mesa, the video compression codec SIP cores and application software? The Video APIs are meant to simplify access of programs to the Video-related parts of the GPUs. There are more then the three mentioned above, but AFAIK only two are relevant for Mesa. A Video API should related to Video player, as the OpenGL API relates to a game engine. It connects the player to the device driver.
Is it correct that the development of some code was financed by crowdfunding? See http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTQyMTY User:ScotXW t@lk 20:54, 7 June 2014 (UTC)
On the onset of Mesa 11.0's release, this article needs to accommodate more info about Mesa 11.0. Whether it is something unclear on the talk about Mesa or this article, but I think a section about 11.0 should be added, as well as clarification that later versions of OpenGL won't affect all drivers. Vormeph 20:41, 26 August 2015 (UTC)
I suggest we compact the version table, dropping al minor (.x) releases. They provide no extra information, because the supported OpenGL, EGL, etc versions are equal across the major release. The result would look like this:
API | OpenGL | OpenGL ES | OpenVG | EGL | GLX | Direct3D | ||
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Version | Date | 4.5 2014-08-11 |
3.2 2015-08-10 |
1.1 2008-12-03 |
1.5 2014-03-19 |
1.4 2005-12-16 |
11.2 2013-10-17 | |
11 | 2015-09-11 | 4.2 (Intel 3.3) | 3.0 | — | 1.5 | 1.4 | 9.0c | |
10 | 2013-11-30 | 3.3 | 3.0 | 1.1 | 1.4 | 1.4 | 9.0c | |
9 | 2012-10-08 | 3.1 | 2.0 | 1.1 | 1.4 | 1.4 | — | |
8 | 2012-02-08 | 3.0 | 2.0 | 1.1 | 1.4 | 1.4 | — | |
7 | 2007-06-22 | 2.1 | — | — | — | 1.4 | — | |
6 | 2004-01-06 | 1.5 | — | — | — | 1.3 | — | |
5 | 2002-11-13 | 1.4 | — | — | — | 1.3 | — | |
4 | 2001-10-22 | 1.3 | — | — | — | 1.3 | — | |
Legend: Old version Older version, still maintained Latest version Future release |
What do you think? Lonaowna ( talk) 12:14, 15 September 2015 (UTC)
I reverted the change of Vulkan support in Mesa 11.2 as Jason Ekstrand from intel wrote that it will still need a few weeks and will end up in 11.3 at the earliest, since 11.2 will be branched tomorrow and only bugfixes allowed after that.
I question the inclusion of Vulkan in the API table as well, since there will be no shared libraries between drivers like for the other APIs, which means it's up to each driver to implement Vulkan. -- Lightkey ( talk) 16:53, 18 February 2016 (UTC)
New Software Rasterizer for Cluster with much more Performance.
See http://openswr.org and http://openswr.org/perf.html and actual https://mesamatrix.net For more. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.67.31.234 ( talk) 11:06, 24 May 2016 (UTC)
http://mesa3d.org/relnotes/13.0.1.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.90.229.157 ( talk) 19:12, 15 November 2016 (UTC)
Today available 13.0.2 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.90.229.183 ( talk) 19:10, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
13.0.4 available — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:810B:C53F:B9E8:85D9:2504:AD1C:1E67 ( talk) 15:43, 1 February 2017 (UTC)
So a Table with some Mesa versions, OpenGL Version and Hardware line is a nice new Option.
Same for OpenGL ES Version and new Vulkan.
see
http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=mesa-172-features&num=1 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:810B:C53F:B9E8:256F:74C8:49C0:C961 ( talk) 23:19, 29 August 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 3 external links on Mesa (computer graphics). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 11:16, 26 January 2018 (UTC)
See
https://www.x.org/wiki/Events/XDC2017/nasri_mesa.pdf — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:810B:C53F:B9E8:D54B:B274:9D38:538C ( talk) 18:47, 21 March 2018 (UTC)
End of Bugfix in 17.3 actual extended to 17.3.9 in calendar Of project — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.90.228.26 ( talk) 10:45, 23 March 2018 (UTC)
See Text in 18.0.0 and or 17.0.0 or 17.0.1 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:810B:C53F:B9E8:C0BA:6AEB:67C7:BC7D ( talk) 17:09, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
Next actual stable is 18.3.1 not 18.3.0 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.223.153.172 ( talk) 22:01, 9 December 2018 (UTC)
Table should be
Hardware firm like Intel Line like Haswell Version Mesa like 18.0 Supported Version OpenGL here 4.5
Same for OpenGL ES and Vulkan and the other api.
1st Source of info about this is https://people.freedesktop.org/~imirkin/glxinfo/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:810B:C53F:B9E8:741C:E0A5:AD9C:3E92 ( talk) 10:55, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
And mesamatrix
https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Mesa_%28computer_graphics%29&diff=prev&oldid=1013404435 It seems to either have some bad typos or be written by someone who mostly speaks german. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.27.77.211 ( talk) 09:27, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
een looking for a good place to ocument issues within a server whether it be long running source code, or improper use of Apache licensing for wearbles and near by devices. Frm blink ccessibility issues t improper data removal and manpulation. Idealbrocolli ( talk) 23:58, 11 November 2022 (UTC)
See
https://www.phoronix.com/news/OpenGL-4.5-D3D12-Mesa
and mesamatrix. 2A02:6D40:34BF:4001:3055:5E84:CA88:68EB ( talk) 12:25, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
The infobox field for preview release screwed up. No idea on how to fix. Any help is welcome. NasssaNser talk 14:26, 30 November 2023 (UTC)