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Added Australian History, the old section marked history is not 100% but will wait to see what happens before altering (somewone else might fix it). Article needs more USA history and South Africa History to balance. Need some decent photoes of Merinos and shearing of same, before article can move forward; will organise. Charles Esson 10:34, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
Vermont Merino
Australian Sheep and Wool Handbook has William Jarvis importing about 15000 sheep. Sheep production and management had William Jarvis importing at least 3500. I went for the US ref.
History section of the article reads: They were first brought over to Maine from Portugal in 1810 illegaly by Capt. Ephraim Sturdivant.
First off it would only have been illegal from England point of view. As Sturdivant was born in the US one has to assume he was a US citizen and thus it was not illegal. War is like that.
Second, so the captian took part in the "Merino Craze" and imported some sheep to Maine, important for Sturdivant perhaps, is it worth a mention in history of the breed.
In short a little from the beginning could go at the start of Australian history, most of the rest is covered with dates in the Australian History section anyway.
If I merge like that what is missing is a what happened to the vermont breed between 1812 and 1866 something went horrible wrong, and what is the Delaine, it doesn't get a mention in the Australian History. There is also a South African history that is important.
Charles Esson 13:26, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
Merged "History of Australia" and "History" as the latter added little. Article is now too biased towards Australia, I need south africa and US refs to fix that up. The refs I have pretty much sum it up, the Australian sheep book is about 80% merino, the US sheep book at about 2%. Charles Esson 23:24, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
Historical Magazine: And Notes and Queries Concerning the Antiquities, History, and Biography of... http://books.google.com.au/books?vid=LCCN05005123&id=eunhyYrr8YAC&pg=PA26&lpg=PA26&dq=merino+sheep&as_brr=1 First to import to USA Humphreys or Livingston. Seems to be some dispute. 61.9.139.165 11:31, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
Cottle definitly says the dutch gov got their sheep in 1790; 1780s in South Africa states they arrived in South Africa in 1789 this will have to be sorted out. I will have to find a second ref 61.9.139.165 10:02, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
I'm guessing Germany's and I will be bold 09:18, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
You can't write an honest history of the breed unless you face up to reality. The merino breed is where it is today because it has been developed for economic returns not as one would develop a breed for dog shows. Paragraph added at start to try and explain this and then edits added as I find references for the introduction genetic material. Charles Esson 00:38, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
In tidying this I have been reflecting. The net result of the PETA campain is probable going to be the end of some genetic lines; I suppiose thats fair man created them, man can destoy them. As a humun what would be your choice if the options were circumcision of your son or the end of your genetic line. Charles Esson 12:08, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
I think we should merge the article Booroola Merino into this article. Alan.ca 08:58, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
It depends on how the users use the system. As it is you can now find an entry on the Booroola merino if you want to find out what it is; if you merge you can't. Further I think an article on the merino would be several thousand words longer before you would bother mentioning the Booroola. It really isn't that important. It really is a bit of a stub, I thought I it was more complete. Charles Esson 03:11, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
The article was more complete, reverted Booroola merino to version before vandalism.
This article is about merino, not other animals. Bob98133 ( talk) 21:49, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
There is plenty of information about livestock guardians in the main sheep article, which this article links to. There is no significant difference in using guardians with the merino breeds, so a blurb here isn't necessary. Remember that it's important to stay strictly on topic. This means that general info about sheep, such as predator prevention, should go in the general sheep article. Only merino-specific facts should go in the merino article. The See also section should be kept to a minimum. Linking terms , such as wool, that are linked in the article already is redundant. Van Tucky 22:12, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
I've added a short note under animal welfare, looks like it is going to become important, perhaps more can be said. Charles Esson ( talk) 11:02, 8 March 2008 (UTC). Put back in link to dispute over bribery claims, need for NPV. Charles Esson ( talk) 08:11, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
"Several Swedish and European clothing retailers, including H&M, Zara (clothing), and Lindex now no longer stock Merino products.[citation needed]"
I bought a 50% Merino garment from H&M in the UK the other day actually! 86.16.135.174 ( talk) 12:44, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
'nuff said. Cheers, Casliber ( talk · contribs) 22:48, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
I'll second that, it nice seeing stuff getting better. Charles Esson ( talk) 08:33, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
If merino is mixed with every other fabric this should be included. I didn't see that it is. The introduction of the possum blend received a lot of publicity by the industry and is being marketed as new products, so I think that there should be a mention of it in the article. Bob98133 ( talk) 14:53, 22 January 2009 (UTC)
Bod clearly your from New Zealand, trying to kill off our possums. I think you have done an excellent job with the article so I'm not going to argue, but I still think it's the wrong place. Merino wool is pretty much mixed with everything, it's a relatively cheap natural fibre and it spins easily. The merino/possum blend is a nice blend. Charles Esson ( talk) 12:50, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
I'm not from NZ and agree that the possum fur should be mentioned. It is a unusual and beautiful mix. Cgoodwin ( talk) 21:20, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
Re: recent change by Cgoodwin. I think that Merino with an uppercase M is correct for the breed of sheep, but I'm not sure that an uppercase M is required for the wool made from Merino sheep. I've left Cgoodwin's edit, but if someone is sure, or can cite a reference, that would be great. Google searches show both upper and lower case being used for the wool. Bob98133 ( talk) 14:45, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
You may be aware that many people are willing to pay a premium for merino wool. Companies like Arc'teryx, Ibex, IceBreaker, SmartWool, and many others, sell base layers made from merino wool. Each piece can cost up to $100 USD. There are less expensive synthetic fabrics that are put to the same uses.
Wool has many useful properties in general, but some must be specific to merino wool, as it's the most common (type of wool) in high-end outdoor clothing. Some of this is softness - which is mentioned in the article's leader - although cashmere is arguably softer.
I came to this article after buying an expensive merino base layer, finding it to be the best winter clothing I own, and wanting to learn more about the stuff. I think it would make sense to devote a section of the article to merino wool's use in textiles made for outdoors exercise. I'll probably be bold and start one tomorrow if nobody beats me too it or objects strongly.
-- SeattleHiker ( talk) 00:49, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
-- SeattleHiker ( talk) 18:12, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved. Number 5 7 21:42, 10 October 2014 (UTC)
– The sheep variety isn't a WP:PRIMARYTOPIC candidate for any reason I can discern. The average reader is more likely to have heard of one of the people or places by this name. "Merino" isn't even an exclusively sheep-related term in animal breeding; while we may have the Merino sheep and Peppin Merino sheep, we also have the Merino cavy a.k.a. English Merino guinea pig. Use natural disambiguation per WP:NATURAL policy (there is no case for parenethical here, " Merino (sheep)" would just be longer and more obtuse for no benefit to the reader.) — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼ 09:11, 2 October 2014 (UTC)
The said prince, was not an elector, but the son of an elector. 24.13.184.236 ( talk) 18:45, 15 December 2014 (UTC)
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Today's edit by GoSnug1 looks suspiciously like advertising, and the username is not acceptable, but have left untouched, as to me it's borderline and competently done. Doug butler ( talk) 08:38, 25 December 2015 (UTC)
The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Merino/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.
As a Kiwi, I am concerned that the Animal Welfare section on Merino ignores the fact that mulesing is rarely used in New Zealand and is predomoninantly an Australian practice.
Most clothing companies using merino, including Icebreaker, Chocolate Fish and Howies, source their wool only from New Zealand Sheep Stations that do not practice mulesing. Icebreaker do this directly, and smaller companies like Chocolate Fish and Howies source through MAPP and Zque who guarantee that mulesing is not practiced on the stations where their wool is sourced. As it stands, the Merino entry in Wikipedia is misleading. Australian sheep stations practice mulesing, not because of the inherent nature of the sheep, but because of the climate conditions in which they are reared, and because of the type of fly endemic in those areas. In countries where the sheep are raised on high, cold pasture, the type of fly is different, and the incidence of fly strike greatly reduced, rendering mulesing unnecessary. It is perfectly possible for companies to continue selling Merino clothing, and customers to continue buying it, safe in the knowledge that it has been produced without mulesing. The Animal Welfare section should make this clear. ( Jude710 ( talk) 12:00, 25 September 2008 (UTC)) |
Substituted at 21:22, 19 March 2016 (UTC)
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Perhaps it is just me, but I cannot tolerate woolen clothing next to my skin - no hives or a swollen throat, but lots of itching and some redness. I CANNOT WAIT to rip it off. Merino wool is not as bad on my skin - I can easily tolerate it for a few hours. Is this a real quality of merino wool as compared to the usual sheep's wool? Or is it just a quirk of my own? Thank you for your time, Wordreader ( talk) 23:19, 10 September 2021 (UTC)
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||
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Added Australian History, the old section marked history is not 100% but will wait to see what happens before altering (somewone else might fix it). Article needs more USA history and South Africa History to balance. Need some decent photoes of Merinos and shearing of same, before article can move forward; will organise. Charles Esson 10:34, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
Vermont Merino
Australian Sheep and Wool Handbook has William Jarvis importing about 15000 sheep. Sheep production and management had William Jarvis importing at least 3500. I went for the US ref.
History section of the article reads: They were first brought over to Maine from Portugal in 1810 illegaly by Capt. Ephraim Sturdivant.
First off it would only have been illegal from England point of view. As Sturdivant was born in the US one has to assume he was a US citizen and thus it was not illegal. War is like that.
Second, so the captian took part in the "Merino Craze" and imported some sheep to Maine, important for Sturdivant perhaps, is it worth a mention in history of the breed.
In short a little from the beginning could go at the start of Australian history, most of the rest is covered with dates in the Australian History section anyway.
If I merge like that what is missing is a what happened to the vermont breed between 1812 and 1866 something went horrible wrong, and what is the Delaine, it doesn't get a mention in the Australian History. There is also a South African history that is important.
Charles Esson 13:26, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
Merged "History of Australia" and "History" as the latter added little. Article is now too biased towards Australia, I need south africa and US refs to fix that up. The refs I have pretty much sum it up, the Australian sheep book is about 80% merino, the US sheep book at about 2%. Charles Esson 23:24, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
Historical Magazine: And Notes and Queries Concerning the Antiquities, History, and Biography of... http://books.google.com.au/books?vid=LCCN05005123&id=eunhyYrr8YAC&pg=PA26&lpg=PA26&dq=merino+sheep&as_brr=1 First to import to USA Humphreys or Livingston. Seems to be some dispute. 61.9.139.165 11:31, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
Cottle definitly says the dutch gov got their sheep in 1790; 1780s in South Africa states they arrived in South Africa in 1789 this will have to be sorted out. I will have to find a second ref 61.9.139.165 10:02, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
I'm guessing Germany's and I will be bold 09:18, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
You can't write an honest history of the breed unless you face up to reality. The merino breed is where it is today because it has been developed for economic returns not as one would develop a breed for dog shows. Paragraph added at start to try and explain this and then edits added as I find references for the introduction genetic material. Charles Esson 00:38, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
In tidying this I have been reflecting. The net result of the PETA campain is probable going to be the end of some genetic lines; I suppiose thats fair man created them, man can destoy them. As a humun what would be your choice if the options were circumcision of your son or the end of your genetic line. Charles Esson 12:08, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
I think we should merge the article Booroola Merino into this article. Alan.ca 08:58, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
It depends on how the users use the system. As it is you can now find an entry on the Booroola merino if you want to find out what it is; if you merge you can't. Further I think an article on the merino would be several thousand words longer before you would bother mentioning the Booroola. It really isn't that important. It really is a bit of a stub, I thought I it was more complete. Charles Esson 03:11, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
The article was more complete, reverted Booroola merino to version before vandalism.
This article is about merino, not other animals. Bob98133 ( talk) 21:49, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
There is plenty of information about livestock guardians in the main sheep article, which this article links to. There is no significant difference in using guardians with the merino breeds, so a blurb here isn't necessary. Remember that it's important to stay strictly on topic. This means that general info about sheep, such as predator prevention, should go in the general sheep article. Only merino-specific facts should go in the merino article. The See also section should be kept to a minimum. Linking terms , such as wool, that are linked in the article already is redundant. Van Tucky 22:12, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
I've added a short note under animal welfare, looks like it is going to become important, perhaps more can be said. Charles Esson ( talk) 11:02, 8 March 2008 (UTC). Put back in link to dispute over bribery claims, need for NPV. Charles Esson ( talk) 08:11, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
"Several Swedish and European clothing retailers, including H&M, Zara (clothing), and Lindex now no longer stock Merino products.[citation needed]"
I bought a 50% Merino garment from H&M in the UK the other day actually! 86.16.135.174 ( talk) 12:44, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
'nuff said. Cheers, Casliber ( talk · contribs) 22:48, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
I'll second that, it nice seeing stuff getting better. Charles Esson ( talk) 08:33, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
If merino is mixed with every other fabric this should be included. I didn't see that it is. The introduction of the possum blend received a lot of publicity by the industry and is being marketed as new products, so I think that there should be a mention of it in the article. Bob98133 ( talk) 14:53, 22 January 2009 (UTC)
Bod clearly your from New Zealand, trying to kill off our possums. I think you have done an excellent job with the article so I'm not going to argue, but I still think it's the wrong place. Merino wool is pretty much mixed with everything, it's a relatively cheap natural fibre and it spins easily. The merino/possum blend is a nice blend. Charles Esson ( talk) 12:50, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
I'm not from NZ and agree that the possum fur should be mentioned. It is a unusual and beautiful mix. Cgoodwin ( talk) 21:20, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
Re: recent change by Cgoodwin. I think that Merino with an uppercase M is correct for the breed of sheep, but I'm not sure that an uppercase M is required for the wool made from Merino sheep. I've left Cgoodwin's edit, but if someone is sure, or can cite a reference, that would be great. Google searches show both upper and lower case being used for the wool. Bob98133 ( talk) 14:45, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
You may be aware that many people are willing to pay a premium for merino wool. Companies like Arc'teryx, Ibex, IceBreaker, SmartWool, and many others, sell base layers made from merino wool. Each piece can cost up to $100 USD. There are less expensive synthetic fabrics that are put to the same uses.
Wool has many useful properties in general, but some must be specific to merino wool, as it's the most common (type of wool) in high-end outdoor clothing. Some of this is softness - which is mentioned in the article's leader - although cashmere is arguably softer.
I came to this article after buying an expensive merino base layer, finding it to be the best winter clothing I own, and wanting to learn more about the stuff. I think it would make sense to devote a section of the article to merino wool's use in textiles made for outdoors exercise. I'll probably be bold and start one tomorrow if nobody beats me too it or objects strongly.
-- SeattleHiker ( talk) 00:49, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
-- SeattleHiker ( talk) 18:12, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved. Number 5 7 21:42, 10 October 2014 (UTC)
– The sheep variety isn't a WP:PRIMARYTOPIC candidate for any reason I can discern. The average reader is more likely to have heard of one of the people or places by this name. "Merino" isn't even an exclusively sheep-related term in animal breeding; while we may have the Merino sheep and Peppin Merino sheep, we also have the Merino cavy a.k.a. English Merino guinea pig. Use natural disambiguation per WP:NATURAL policy (there is no case for parenethical here, " Merino (sheep)" would just be longer and more obtuse for no benefit to the reader.) — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼ 09:11, 2 October 2014 (UTC)
The said prince, was not an elector, but the son of an elector. 24.13.184.236 ( talk) 18:45, 15 December 2014 (UTC)
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Cheers. — cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 18:14, 19 October 2015 (UTC)
Today's edit by GoSnug1 looks suspiciously like advertising, and the username is not acceptable, but have left untouched, as to me it's borderline and competently done. Doug butler ( talk) 08:38, 25 December 2015 (UTC)
The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Merino/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.
As a Kiwi, I am concerned that the Animal Welfare section on Merino ignores the fact that mulesing is rarely used in New Zealand and is predomoninantly an Australian practice.
Most clothing companies using merino, including Icebreaker, Chocolate Fish and Howies, source their wool only from New Zealand Sheep Stations that do not practice mulesing. Icebreaker do this directly, and smaller companies like Chocolate Fish and Howies source through MAPP and Zque who guarantee that mulesing is not practiced on the stations where their wool is sourced. As it stands, the Merino entry in Wikipedia is misleading. Australian sheep stations practice mulesing, not because of the inherent nature of the sheep, but because of the climate conditions in which they are reared, and because of the type of fly endemic in those areas. In countries where the sheep are raised on high, cold pasture, the type of fly is different, and the incidence of fly strike greatly reduced, rendering mulesing unnecessary. It is perfectly possible for companies to continue selling Merino clothing, and customers to continue buying it, safe in the knowledge that it has been produced without mulesing. The Animal Welfare section should make this clear. ( Jude710 ( talk) 12:00, 25 September 2008 (UTC)) |
Substituted at 21:22, 19 March 2016 (UTC)
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Perhaps it is just me, but I cannot tolerate woolen clothing next to my skin - no hives or a swollen throat, but lots of itching and some redness. I CANNOT WAIT to rip it off. Merino wool is not as bad on my skin - I can easily tolerate it for a few hours. Is this a real quality of merino wool as compared to the usual sheep's wool? Or is it just a quirk of my own? Thank you for your time, Wordreader ( talk) 23:19, 10 September 2021 (UTC)