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"It occupied a strategic position at the mouth of the Nile delta". No it didn't. It was at the head of the Nile delta.
It is difficult and sometimes even impossible to rank the world´s top five largest cities in ancient times. The Chandler list [1] is based on some very general assumptions.-- JFK 12:40, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
There is a claim that memphis was capital until 1300 B.C. What is the basis for this claim? Memphis ceased to be capital with the end of the old kingdom in about 2200. After the first intermediate period, the capitals changed to hieracontopolis and thebes, then to thebes alone, then to avaris, then back to thebes, and then 1300 rolled about. Thanatosimii 02:52, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
Depends of what definition you make use of; the article capital says: "the principal city or town associated with its government". Egyptologists have used another unspoken definition: Where the pharaoh built his tomb and mortuary monuments. In reality the pharaoh and his government resided in several capitals. Middle Kingdom: Itjtawy, Memphis, Thebes. New Kingdom: Akhetaten, Memphis, Pi-Ramesses, Thebes. However, I do not quite understand why the start of the 19th Dynasty in 1300 BC is giving as the "end" of Memphis´ capital status.-- JFK 11:29, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
How is it that the First Dynasty city of Memphis is described as being built by Menes of Tanis, when the Wikipedia article on Tanis states that that city was built in the Twentieth Dynasty? Another city of the same name?
-- Ziusudra 12:05, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
Menes of Tanis is flat out wrong. It is likely that Menes never even existed. Besides this, Menes was said to be from Upper Egypt, not the Delta (where Tanis is located). The earliest Egyptian kings are associated with Hierkonpolis (I think) and Abydos in the south.
--Tom
External link or links have recently been deleted by User:Calton as "horrible Tripod pages which add little information, are full of ads, and fail WP:EL standards." No better external links were substituted. Readers may like to judge these deleted links for themselves, by opening Page history. -- Wetman 15:00, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
there is also a memphis tenessee which is in the united states. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.130.90.216 ( talk) 00:55, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
what about da map??? the didn't include a map :( —Preceding unsigned comment added by Happykook101 ( talk • contribs) 01:13, 27 October 2009 (UTC)
Why is "Memphis" automatically redirected to Memphis, Tenessee? Manf was the original city and Memphis, Tenessee is named for it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.235.150.190 ( talk) 00:53, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
Memphis currently redirects here, despite the Memphis, TN article saying Memphis redirects to that page. I have to assume that one of the many people who are upset about Wikipedia's policy of having Memphis redirect to Memphis, TN, changed it without knowledge of the administrators, because I cannot find any discussion where it was agreed to move it. Someone should probably change the redirect so it will go to Memphis, TN again, as that seems to be the official Wikipedia decision. J'onn J'onzz ( talk) 16:36, 12 November 2012 (UTC)
On tourist trips I was told that the city was dismantled in the eighth and ninth century to build Cairo Ericl ( talk)
"A Russian archaeological mission working in Mit Rahina discovered part of the white wall of Memphis city, the first capital of ancient Egypt, in addition to a number of ovens for manufacturing pottery and bronze tools ... The mission will continue excavation works at the site in an effort to find the remaining part of the wall, head of the mission said. Memphis was the ancient capital of Aneb-Hetch, the first name of Lower Egypt. Its ruins are located near the town of Mit Rahina, 20km south of Cairo." [1]
References
Needs some "fair" explanation of weight, construction, transportation...-- 81.39.104.252 ( talk) 17:02, 27 May 2017 (UTC)
The use of "Memphis" is under discussion, see Talk:Memphis (disambiguation)#Requested move 4 September 2018. Crouch, Swale ( talk) 10:05, 4 September 2018 (UTC)
I noticed that the infobox section with the native name of Memphis says "menes". Indeed, king Menes founded the city, but was it named after him? Plus, this name is not mentioned in the main article. 89.210.99.172 ( talk) 21:00, 9 March 2020 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved per WP:SNOW. ( closed by non-admin page mover) Nohomersryan ( talk) 21:29, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
This title is more likely to be WP:PRIMARYTOPIC and WP:COMMONNAME. The Houndsworth ( talk) 10:37, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: No move, early close per WP:SNOW. Nothing has changed since this was last proposed. If a new RM is ever opened, please use a new rationale other than "Egypt was first". ( non-admin closure) SnowFire ( talk) 05:48, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
– This Memphis was the first city named “Memphis”, and most people outside of America think of Memphis as the city in Egypt, if Americans want to see the Memphis in their state, the can look at “Memphis (disambiguation)”. ShivanshPlays1 ( talk) 22:57, 22 November 2021 (UTC)
The points raised in this 2003 article need to be incorporated in this article:
"Questioning the Location of the Old Kingdom Capital of Memphis, Egypt". Volume 14. 14 (0). UCL Press. 2003-11-15.
doi:
10.5334/pia.201.
ISSN
2041-9015.{{
cite journal}}
: CS1 maint: unflagged free DOI (
link)
Specifically:
This can be seen best by looking at this map from the Description de l'Égypte, the foundational work of modern Egyptology. It includes two references to Memphis, one in the top left corner "Pyramids of Giza or of Memphis" and one in the bottom center "Ruins of Memphis" at the location of Mit Rahina.
Onceinawhile ( talk) 22:16, 11 November 2022 (UTC)
I have removed the two "transliterations" ⲙⲟⲩⲛ ⲛⲟϥⲣⲓ and ϩⲱ ⲭⲟ ⲡⲑⲁϩ which had been added by an IP-address-only user (so, unfortunately, I could not reach out first). These are not transliterations because the hieroglyphs do not indicate vowels. A Coptic transliteration of the first would be ⲙⲛ ⲛϥⲣ. Rather than transliterations, these are projections forward of how the old name of the city may have sounded like in Coptic. This is, however, entirely speculative and could easily be confused with a real attested name by a casual reader. Referencing the Coptic WP incubator is not a good source, in my mind, because, as much as I like it, any neologisms there are still essentially conlangs, not really attested forms (unless they get adopted at some point in the future by a broad consensus outside WP). If I am wrong and these are actually attested in Coptic please make sure to provide a historical source for that before restoring. Thanks! MikuChan39 ( talk) 05:51, 28 November 2022 (UTC)
W/Memphis 113.199.229.197 ( talk) 05:43, 19 February 2023 (UTC)
Sometimes it is implied that Memphis was the capital for dynasties 1-6, other times just for dynasties 3-6 (Old Kingdom only). Or was it the royal residence for dynasties 1-6, but capital for dynasties 3-6 ? cheers, Michael C. Price talk 14:19, 14 August 2023 (UTC)
Was Memphis the capital during dynasties 1 & 2 ? i.e. straight after unification? cheers, Michael C. Price talk 15:49, 14 August 2023 (UTC)
This
level-4 vital article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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"It occupied a strategic position at the mouth of the Nile delta". No it didn't. It was at the head of the Nile delta.
It is difficult and sometimes even impossible to rank the world´s top five largest cities in ancient times. The Chandler list [1] is based on some very general assumptions.-- JFK 12:40, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
There is a claim that memphis was capital until 1300 B.C. What is the basis for this claim? Memphis ceased to be capital with the end of the old kingdom in about 2200. After the first intermediate period, the capitals changed to hieracontopolis and thebes, then to thebes alone, then to avaris, then back to thebes, and then 1300 rolled about. Thanatosimii 02:52, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
Depends of what definition you make use of; the article capital says: "the principal city or town associated with its government". Egyptologists have used another unspoken definition: Where the pharaoh built his tomb and mortuary monuments. In reality the pharaoh and his government resided in several capitals. Middle Kingdom: Itjtawy, Memphis, Thebes. New Kingdom: Akhetaten, Memphis, Pi-Ramesses, Thebes. However, I do not quite understand why the start of the 19th Dynasty in 1300 BC is giving as the "end" of Memphis´ capital status.-- JFK 11:29, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
How is it that the First Dynasty city of Memphis is described as being built by Menes of Tanis, when the Wikipedia article on Tanis states that that city was built in the Twentieth Dynasty? Another city of the same name?
-- Ziusudra 12:05, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
Menes of Tanis is flat out wrong. It is likely that Menes never even existed. Besides this, Menes was said to be from Upper Egypt, not the Delta (where Tanis is located). The earliest Egyptian kings are associated with Hierkonpolis (I think) and Abydos in the south.
--Tom
External link or links have recently been deleted by User:Calton as "horrible Tripod pages which add little information, are full of ads, and fail WP:EL standards." No better external links were substituted. Readers may like to judge these deleted links for themselves, by opening Page history. -- Wetman 15:00, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
there is also a memphis tenessee which is in the united states. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.130.90.216 ( talk) 00:55, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
what about da map??? the didn't include a map :( —Preceding unsigned comment added by Happykook101 ( talk • contribs) 01:13, 27 October 2009 (UTC)
Why is "Memphis" automatically redirected to Memphis, Tenessee? Manf was the original city and Memphis, Tenessee is named for it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.235.150.190 ( talk) 00:53, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
Memphis currently redirects here, despite the Memphis, TN article saying Memphis redirects to that page. I have to assume that one of the many people who are upset about Wikipedia's policy of having Memphis redirect to Memphis, TN, changed it without knowledge of the administrators, because I cannot find any discussion where it was agreed to move it. Someone should probably change the redirect so it will go to Memphis, TN again, as that seems to be the official Wikipedia decision. J'onn J'onzz ( talk) 16:36, 12 November 2012 (UTC)
On tourist trips I was told that the city was dismantled in the eighth and ninth century to build Cairo Ericl ( talk)
"A Russian archaeological mission working in Mit Rahina discovered part of the white wall of Memphis city, the first capital of ancient Egypt, in addition to a number of ovens for manufacturing pottery and bronze tools ... The mission will continue excavation works at the site in an effort to find the remaining part of the wall, head of the mission said. Memphis was the ancient capital of Aneb-Hetch, the first name of Lower Egypt. Its ruins are located near the town of Mit Rahina, 20km south of Cairo." [1]
References
Needs some "fair" explanation of weight, construction, transportation...-- 81.39.104.252 ( talk) 17:02, 27 May 2017 (UTC)
The use of "Memphis" is under discussion, see Talk:Memphis (disambiguation)#Requested move 4 September 2018. Crouch, Swale ( talk) 10:05, 4 September 2018 (UTC)
I noticed that the infobox section with the native name of Memphis says "menes". Indeed, king Menes founded the city, but was it named after him? Plus, this name is not mentioned in the main article. 89.210.99.172 ( talk) 21:00, 9 March 2020 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved per WP:SNOW. ( closed by non-admin page mover) Nohomersryan ( talk) 21:29, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
This title is more likely to be WP:PRIMARYTOPIC and WP:COMMONNAME. The Houndsworth ( talk) 10:37, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: No move, early close per WP:SNOW. Nothing has changed since this was last proposed. If a new RM is ever opened, please use a new rationale other than "Egypt was first". ( non-admin closure) SnowFire ( talk) 05:48, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
– This Memphis was the first city named “Memphis”, and most people outside of America think of Memphis as the city in Egypt, if Americans want to see the Memphis in their state, the can look at “Memphis (disambiguation)”. ShivanshPlays1 ( talk) 22:57, 22 November 2021 (UTC)
The points raised in this 2003 article need to be incorporated in this article:
"Questioning the Location of the Old Kingdom Capital of Memphis, Egypt". Volume 14. 14 (0). UCL Press. 2003-11-15.
doi:
10.5334/pia.201.
ISSN
2041-9015.{{
cite journal}}
: CS1 maint: unflagged free DOI (
link)
Specifically:
This can be seen best by looking at this map from the Description de l'Égypte, the foundational work of modern Egyptology. It includes two references to Memphis, one in the top left corner "Pyramids of Giza or of Memphis" and one in the bottom center "Ruins of Memphis" at the location of Mit Rahina.
Onceinawhile ( talk) 22:16, 11 November 2022 (UTC)
I have removed the two "transliterations" ⲙⲟⲩⲛ ⲛⲟϥⲣⲓ and ϩⲱ ⲭⲟ ⲡⲑⲁϩ which had been added by an IP-address-only user (so, unfortunately, I could not reach out first). These are not transliterations because the hieroglyphs do not indicate vowels. A Coptic transliteration of the first would be ⲙⲛ ⲛϥⲣ. Rather than transliterations, these are projections forward of how the old name of the city may have sounded like in Coptic. This is, however, entirely speculative and could easily be confused with a real attested name by a casual reader. Referencing the Coptic WP incubator is not a good source, in my mind, because, as much as I like it, any neologisms there are still essentially conlangs, not really attested forms (unless they get adopted at some point in the future by a broad consensus outside WP). If I am wrong and these are actually attested in Coptic please make sure to provide a historical source for that before restoring. Thanks! MikuChan39 ( talk) 05:51, 28 November 2022 (UTC)
W/Memphis 113.199.229.197 ( talk) 05:43, 19 February 2023 (UTC)
Sometimes it is implied that Memphis was the capital for dynasties 1-6, other times just for dynasties 3-6 (Old Kingdom only). Or was it the royal residence for dynasties 1-6, but capital for dynasties 3-6 ? cheers, Michael C. Price talk 14:19, 14 August 2023 (UTC)
Was Memphis the capital during dynasties 1 & 2 ? i.e. straight after unification? cheers, Michael C. Price talk 15:49, 14 August 2023 (UTC)