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So was she born in '70 or '74?
Different sources on the net have either one or the other. IMDB.com, for example, shows her year of birth as 1970. Amchow78 00:22, 12 November 2005 (UTC)
The article says she anglicized her name to "Knauss", but Knauss is not an Anglo name; it's German/Swedish.
@ Vesuvius Dogg: I grant the validity of your concerns as expressed at my TalkPage on 2015-09-05, where you wrote: "From WP:BLP: "In the case of public figures, there will be a multitude of reliable published sources, and BLPs should simply document what these sources say. If an allegation or incident is noteworthy, relevant, and well documented, it belongs in the article – even if it is negative and the subject dislikes all mention of it. If you cannot find multiple reliable third-party sources documenting the allegation or incident, leave it out. Professor JR, you have made wholesale deletions from this page, incorrectly concluding that Melania Trump's comments in 1999 to Howard Stern are tabloid-sourced (although Joyce Wadler's interview, which repeated the "not much" quote and elicited Knauss' own response to it, originally appeared in The New York Times, and Bloomberg is anything but a tabloid, although you removed that August 2015 reference entirely). I'm under the impression that any potentially unflattering insights related to Melania Trump and not already echoed on her own promotional website is unsuitable, in your eyes, for inclusion, up to and including the rather benign fact that she is raising her child in both English and Slovenian, and that she has been unavailable for recent interviews but both supports and intends to play a role campaigning for her husband. Believe me, I take WP:BLP seriously, but I feel like you are stripping the article almost to the point of non-utility, deferring to its bare-bones major source, which is Mrs. Trump's own promotional website focussed on her jewelry and caviar cold cream. That's a shame, because there are RS sources to give the article depth and balance, so it reads less like the PR copy which has previously been suggested for deletion. After a partial restoration of some of what you've removed, I'd appreciate moving the discussion to the article's Talk page (if you continue to object to what I've added) so that we can together find consensus." Vesuvius Dogg (talk) 12:07, 5 September 2015 (UTC)
@
Vesuvius Dogg: Please note that I have added back in the sourced bilingual bit about the Trumps' son, as well as making a few other minor edits to this article, but have left out the nude-photo stuff, etc., as in my opinion it's probably not worthy, and a bit gratuitous, to call attention to it here. See what you think.
---
Professor JR (
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10:29, 7 September 2015 (UTC)
Donald Trump is interviewed by HollywoodReporter and is asked about his wife.
Headline-1: The Donald Trump Conversation: Murdoch, Ailes, NBC and the Rush of Being TV's "Ratings Machine"
QUOTE: When will you get Melania out there talking about you? "Pretty soon. She wants to do it. She is a very confident person. You've seen her on The View, and you've seen her on different shows. Larry King. You've seen her being interviewed. She's got a great style, and she would be an amazing first lady with heart." -- AstroU ( talk) 05:12, 20 August 2015 (UTC) -- PS: FYI for future editing.
Headline-2: The Donald Trump Conversation: Murdoch, Ailes, NBC and the Rush of Being TV's "Ratings Machine
QUOTE: "What would Melania care about as first lady?" She would care very much about women's issues. We're talking about mostly medical issues but women's issues. She was very strong on that with me the other day. Ivanka and Melania said, "You're not getting fairly treated on your feeling toward women." My mother was this incredible woman. I have known incredible women. I have many women executives, frankly, that are better than my men executives. I pay them the same or more." -- AstroU ( talk) 05:17, 20 August 2015 (UTC) -- PS: FYI for additional future editing.
More news for more future editing (a lot of comments brought out by Barbara Walters. There are pictures and direct quotes in this article/interview.
Headline-3: Barbara Walters Is Shocked that Melania Trump Is Smart Because She's Also Beautiful
QUOTE: "Barbara Walters: ... maybe because she's so beautiful, we don't expect her to be as smart as she is." -- AstroU ( talk) 22:15, 21 November 2015 (UTC) -- PS: FYI for future: (a lot of informatin here.)
Many Wikipedia articles have audio for readers who are interested. Does she (or Donald Trump) say 'Mel-Lawn-ia' or 'Mel-Layne-ia'. Americanized might be 'layne' but the European might be 'lawn' in my lifetime experience. -- Charles Edwin Shipp ( talk) 21:12, 17 August 2015 (UTC) -- PS: This would be to improve the article.
Many Wikipedia articles have audio for readers who are interested. -- Charles Edwin Shipp ( talk) 08:46, 13 October 2015 (UTC)
According to people who knew the family, he was. FYI. Vesuvius Dogg ( talk) 19:10, 14 February 2016 (UTC)
Speaking of 'notability', the future First Lady just became more 'notable'. People vote for First Lady, too.
Headline-1: Things just got ugly: Trump retweets unflattering image of Heidi Cruz compared to Melania before Ted hits back at Donald saying 'real men don't attack women'
QUOTE: "Trump retweets unflattering image of Heidi Cruz compared to Melania; Ted hits back at Donald saying 'real men don't attack women' " -- AstroU ( talk) 13:17, 25 March 2016 (UTC) -- PS: FYI for future editing. NOTE the very interesting and attractive pictures and a video from Heidi Cruz. Call it "The First Lady Wars". They do this for media attention.
We have conflicting reports about whether Melania Trump actually graduated with a degree from the University of Ljubljana. Does anyone have definite and unequivocal evidence that she does indeed have a degree from said institution and that said degree is in "design and architecture"?
Here are the conflicts:
So which one is it? Does she have or not have a degree?
Let's keep the discussion civilized folks.
— Ahnoneemoos ( talk) 22:00, 27 March 2016 (UTC)
Who is this person apart from Donald Trump? Does the person's innate biographical interest rise to the level of entry in an encyclopaedia, or is it just, as it appears, celebrity accessorising? I believe this entry should be stricken. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.242.138.173 ( talk) 22:47, 14 December 2013 (UTC)
I agree. Apart from some minor modelling, the only details of her life here are about her relationship to Trump, including tabloid style details of her wedding, etc. Ashmoo ( talk) 08:19, 16 July 2015 (UTC)
Since she might the the First Lady, it would be wise to wait and see. -- Charles Edwin Shipp ( talk) 19:40, 6 August 2015 (UTC) -- The real question is, "Are Wikipedia readers interested in learning about Melania Trump?"
The “potential First Lady” argument is inappropriate, and she really is famous only because she is married to Trump. But she is kind of famous, so I would say leave the article. If you disagree, then what about all the other Trump’s relatives that have their own Wikipedia articles – would you strike them down also? I would argue that not that many people would know these people, if it were not for Donald Trump. SyaWgnignahCehT ( talk) 21:41, 11 August 2015 (UTC)
If you go to the Sports Illustrated Swimsuit edition infobox, you'll see almost every model in that edition is important enough for a Wikipedia page. (This is totally not my specialty but somehow I ended up here.) >> M.P.Schneider,LC ( parlemus • feci) 05:11, 22 February 2016 (UTC)
The question was raised last year, things changed since, and also in WP the quality of sources is also important. When the question was raised there were some articles in gossip magazines, nothing really of quality, so, the comment about "celebrity accessorising" was a fair point.For ex. Ivanka Trump was mentioned by Forbes, big difference, it is a serious source, not a tabloid or men magazine.But since last year Mrs. Trump also got coverage in quality sources, for ex. Washington Post, etc. Bialosz ( talk) 09:51, 29 March 2016 (UTC)
For some reason her commercial ventures have disappeared from the article. Shouldn't they be restored to her career history? Vesuvius Dogg ( talk) 15:53, 7 May 2016 (UTC)
Melania Trump stated that she speaks Italian, in addition to the languages listed in this WP article. She stated this when being interviewed by Greta Von Susteren. The interview aired on the Fox News Channel on Saturday, May 28, 2016. I think this should be added to this article. I would have done so myself, but I don't know the proper citation or link. Lyttle-Wight ( talk) 00:48, 29 May 2016 (UTC)
Knavs is itself a Slavicisation of German Knauss, right? -- YOMAL SIDOROFF-BIARMSKII ( talk) 16:10, 19 July 2016 (UTC)
Please add Reince Priebus' quote into Wikipedia that It'd be reasonable to fire the speechwriter. Source: http://www.bostonherald.com/news/us_politics/2016/07/rnc_chairman_reince_priebus_itd_be_reasonable_to_fire_melania_trumps — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.65.234.214 ( talk) 15:37, 19 July 2016 (UTC)
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I guess someone that it was funny to list her school as Velvet Jones School of Technology. This needs to be removed.
96.59.200.129 (
talk)
21:48, 19 July 2016 (UTC)
Is there any evidence that the Trumps have ever actually contributed money to The Breast Cancer Research Foundation? That's actually a highly-regarded organization. If she's done something good, it would be nice to mention it. I would be impressed.
OTOH, "associated" violates WP:WEASEL. If all she did was show up at one of their parties, that's not significant. That's like saying you're associated with the Metropolitan Opera because you saw an opera there. Unless someone has a WP:RS to show that she was doing some meaningful charity work, the section should be deleted. -- Nbauman ( talk) 22:34, 19 July 2016 (UTC)
And one of the sources is just a collection of photos from some BCRF event and I presume, she's in there. That's not enough. So I removed it. Volunteer Marek ( talk) 22:58, 19 July 2016 (UTC)
Strike that, both sources are just photos. Volunteer Marek ( talk) 22:59, 19 July 2016 (UTC)
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Please add them following to subsection 2016 NRC Speech Controversy. Source: https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2016/07/19/politics/melania-trump-michelle-obama-speech/index.html
Melania Trump's speech, July 2016:
"From a young age, my parents impressed on me the values that you work hard for what you want in life, that your word is your bond and you do what you say and keep your promise, that you treat people with respect. They taught and showed me values and morals in their daily lives. That is a lesson that I continue to pass along to our son," Trump said.
And we need to pass those lessons on to the many generations to follow. Because we want our children in this nation to know that the only limit to your achievements is the strength of your dreams and your willingness to work for them."
Michelle Obama's speech, on August 25, 2008:
"And Barack and I were raised with so many of the same values: that you work hard for what you want in life; that your word is your bond and you do what you say you're going to do; that you treat people with dignity and respect, even if you don't know them, and even if you don't agree with them.
And Barack and I set out to build lives guided by these values, and to pass them on to the next generation. Because we want our children -- and all children in this nation -- to know that the only limit to the height of your achievements is the reach of your dreams and your willingness to work for them."
Rs21867 (
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05:55, 19 July 2016 (UTC)
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MediaKill13 (
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10:56, 20 July 2016 (UTC)![]() | This
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Can you please remove the campaign-advertising words (Jason Miller's statement) from the article, or at least display them in a less prominent way. They are certainly full of marketing lies, what is of no encyclopedic value for the biography of Mrs. Trump, as such campaigning language is widely known and nothing notable in particular. Repeating those by-word only multiplicates their advertising effect and outreach, what Wikipedia (as far as I knew up to now?) is not for.
92.225.134.220 ( talk) 11:48, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
Is the talk page template above that says "This article was proposed for deletion by an editor in the past." necessary? It does not even link to a deletion discussion. --- Another Believer ( Talk) 15:22, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
The most prominently displayed part is the "statement by the campaign's senior communications advisor, Jason Miller:
In writing her beautiful speech, ..."
That is far from being neutral (called "NPOV" here wasn't it?). Wikipedia, do you get paid for such blatant campaign-advertising?? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.225.134.220 ( talk) 11:22, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
The entire RNC Speech section must be deleted until an editor is willing to write about it in a NPOV manner. The last few sentences read: "Following Trump's speech, various media outlets reported the similarities, stating that Trump's speech was "awkward", embarrassing" and "an act of plagiarism". Various media outlets also suggested that members of Donald Trump's presidential campaign should respond to the accusations. Prior to delivering the speech, the Cable News Network (CNN) reported that Trump and a speechwriter had been "working on the speech" for the past "five to six weeks"."
These comments from "various media outlets" were in fact made by individuals who are self described commentators, not hard news reporters. Claims that a speech was "awkward, and embarrassing" are inappropriate to include in an encyclopedic article. Wikipedia is not a tabloid, the perceptions of a few media hosts immediately following a speech have no place here.
50.189.1.9 ( talk) 06:28, 19 July 2016 (UTC)
My mother gave me a very similar speach many times before either lady was born. When I here either speech it reminds me of my mother. Should I complain that both stole my mom's speech. No, every mother should be saying the same same thing to their children. Saltysailor ( talk) 04:19, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
Please add this to wikipedia https://www.yahoo.com/news/melania-trump-speech-writer-mciver-000000807.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.65.234.214 ( talk) 17:54, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
It seems like users are divided about mentioning that media have questioned if she have used the lyrics to the song Never Gonna Give You Up. On the one hand, Volunteer Marek had removed the information because the article is "a freakin' BLP". On the other hand Ribbet32 mentioned that this information was published by reputable sources such as Time Magazine and New York Magazine. So I propose that we should have a discussion whether to include it in the article or not. Yoshiman6464 ( talk) 16:14, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
It has been proposed that the article Melania Trump speech plagiarism controversy be merged/redirected into 2016 Republican National Convention#Melania Trump's speech. Obviously some of the material will be retained at this article as well. To discuss whether the "controversy" article should remain as a separate article or be merged/redirected, please go to Talk:Melania Trump speech plagiarism controversy. -- MelanieN ( talk) 20:11, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
Skibumpmc, you have now removed reliably sourced and highly significant content from the lead section twice without explanation ( here, here). Please do not edit war. Could you please explain why you're in favor of removing this information? -- Dr. Fleischman ( talk) 19:28, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
It seems like the speech would warrant its own article for BLP purposes, especially considering a lot of the fallout, excuses and fingerpointing is not going to be about her specifically. This fiasco is truly one for the ages and meets notability requirements. —Мандичка YO 😜 22:46, 19 July 2016 (UTC)
I agree, a separate article seems appropriate. I redirected Melania Trump speech plagiarism controversy to this article for now, but I would welcome its expansion. --- Another Believer ( Talk) 14:53, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
Disagree, a separate article is not needed. It's a minor point, not noteworthy of an article, the news channels have already cited several speeches by Obama that were allegedly plagerized, that would require a separate article for each speech according to this type of reasoning. An aide has taken credit for the noted error in Melania's speech already, so its not worth of an article. Melania's speech was well received. StarMountain ( talk) 17:53, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
I was bold and moved content over to Melania Trump speech plagiarism controversy. Please help improve if you are interested. --- Another Believer ( Talk) 19:09, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
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After the mention of her plagiarism, it should be noted that Meredith McIver made a statement explaining the issue.
Bobbert723 (
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23:03, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
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Remove this sentence: Television personality Barbara Walters, impressed with Trump's intelligence when she met her, has said of her: "Maybe because she's so pretty, we don't expect her to be as smart as she is."[36]
Source not credible and neither Walters or Rush are qualified experts who can discuss her intelligence or IQ. Characterization, not a fact.
R2D2 28 (
talk)
22:51, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
Hi, I've tagged the lead with {{ undue weight section}}. In my opinion, the plagiarism accusation is a recentism that will soon become pretty much forgotten, a minor episode in the life of M. Trump. As such, its inclusion in the lead as an independent paragraph goes against WP:NPOV, which states: "For example, discussion of isolated events, criticisms, or news reports about a subject may be verifiable and impartial, but still disproportionate to their overall significance to the article topic. This is a concern especially in relation to recent events that may be in the news." -- Eleassar my talk 20:20, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
It's totally appropriate to cover the plagiarism in depth in this article. It's really the main thing for which she is known and has received a large amount of news coverage and commentary across the planet, so the current coverage is not undue in any way. If anything, it's too short. -- Tataral ( talk) 22:10, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
Someone should check this article for copyright violations. Just sayin' Volunteer Marek ( talk) 19:12, 19 July 2016 (UTC)
The following edit, below, needs to be added to clarify the matter, and be balanced, but I can not add it, since I am not a registered editor. Please, no one lecture me on "registering," since I don't think highly of being bullied and arguing. I can contribute just fine, as it is, and my contributions can stand or fall on their own.
This article is "semi-protected," and this edit can't be done by me, but here it is, if it helps:
To be more precise, McIver places some of the blame on Ms. Trump: "In a statement issued by the campaign, Meredith McIver took the blame but made it clear that Mrs. Trump knew the passages were from the first lady's speech." [1]
Thank you. 96.59.186.103 ( talk) 23:02, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
References
As of June 19. 2016, Melania Trump's personal online website claims that Melania earned a "a degree in design and architecture at University in Slovenia." [1] The official RNC schedule also states that Melania Trump obtained a degree in design and architecture at University in Slovenia. [2].Several news agencies, including The Huffington Post [3], Politico [4], and Gawker [5] have disputed these claims, noting that she dropped out after the first year at university. Other than the Trumps' statements indicating otherwise, there is no evidence that Melania Trump was awarded a degree from any U.S. or foreign institution. -- Sterilizedusername ( talk) 18:11, 19 July 2016 (UTC)
• Sbmeirow • Talk • 05:45, 29 July 2016 (UTC)
The article currently says: "Her biography in the 2016 Republican National Convention official program also incorrectly stated that she had obtained a degree in Slovenia." Should this sentence be removed? It strikes me as not particularly biographical and perhaps a little coatrack-y. This article is about Trump, not about the RNC. And lots of ordinarily reliable media outlets said that Trump got the degree before the truth was exposed. Why would we call out the RNC and not mention those media outlets? -- Dr. Fleischman ( talk) 18:41, 29 July 2016 (UTC)
References
The summary says she is/was a fashion-designer, but there is no mention of this in her career on the page. If she was a designer, add that information. If she wasn't a designer, then remove it from the summary. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alchemista2 ( talk • contribs) 03:34, 26 July 2016 (UTC)
In the wake of Melania's plagiarism scandal, and the incorrect assertion in the RNC program that she obtained a degree from the University of Ljubljana, the Trump campaign has scrubbed from the Internet her own promotional website, which included the falsehood about her college credentials. I note that the sentence claiming that she worked "with photographers including Helmut Newton, Patrick Demarchelier, and Mario Testino" is also sourced back to Melania's website, and an RS interview repeating that fact clearly drew from the website (and also claimed she was a college graduate). I have independently researched Melania's modeling claims and found no independent evidence she worked with any of these three photographers. Can anyone find them? Otherwise I will delete. Vesuvius Dogg ( talk) 01:55, 29 July 2016 (UTC)
There's currently a bit of an edit war going on regarding whether her web site redirect is notable enough to include in this article or not. I suggest we talk it out here before making further edits. Pinging DrFleischman and Jason Quinn. Funcrunch ( talk) 07:18, 2 August 2016 (UTC)
I agree that the sudden disappearance of her website got significant coverage and should be mentioned here (just a mention, not a big deal). -- MelanieN ( talk) 00:38, 3 August 2016 (UTC)
Consequences of Providing False Testimony During Naturalization - did Melania Knaves lie about having an Architecture degree?
Can someone expand this section, or add in, and find out if journalists have looked into her application?? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.191.132.75 ( talk) 15:37, 31 July 2016 (UTC)
Politico has
a good overview of her visa history and the current situation. At the very least it should be used to source info about her immigration, but it should also be used to source generally a statement about her disputed visa status.
czar
11:40, 4 August 2016 (UTC)
Is it germanize or rather Germanize? 75.172.241.80 ( talk) 08:28, 5 August 2016 (UTC)
References
New York Post's " Menalia Trump like you’ve never seen her before has been making headline in the past few days. Can we add it to the article? -- 74.190.106.98 ( talk) 07:01, 3 August 2016 (UTC)
I think we should aim for some consensus on whether we should be referring to the subject of the article as "Melania Trump" or "Melania Knauss." My position is that we should use "Trump" throughout our article.
Currently it looks like there's an attempt to use "Knauss" for sections related to her pre-marriage life and "Trump" for sections related to her married life. This doesn't seem to comport with the relevant guideline or the bulk of the reliable sources. Most (but not all) of our cited sources appear to use "Trump" for Melania's pre-married life as well. The guideline says we should use what is used by the majority of independent, reliable English-language sources with extra weight given to sources written after Melania changed her name. Also, the current approach reads illogically, with phrases such as "Knauss has a sister" (present tense, so should be "Trump has a sister") and "In early August 2016, it was reported that Knauss' account..." (she was "Trump" both in 2016 and for most of the time of her account). -- Dr. Fleischman ( talk) 17:55, 8 August 2016 (UTC)
To distinguish between people with the same surname in the same article or page, use given names or complete names to refer to each of the people upon first mention. For subsequent uses, refer to the people by given names for clarity and brevity. When referring to the person who is the subject of the article, use just the surname unless the reference is part of a list of family members or if use of the surname alone will be confusing.
I changed the sentence from "Melania said" to she "nodded in agreement" because the writer she nodded her head to is the only source saying Melania came anywhere near to saying she entered the US with that specific visa. No one else is quoting Melania saying she even knows what an H-1B3 is, or what might distinguish it from a B-1 or B-2. She may have nodded in agreement to affirm that she possessed a visa rather than any particular visa.
(the quote in the Politico story referred to Mickey Rapkin: “When I interviewed Melania, I mentioned that she’d come to New York on that H-1B visa, and she nodded in agreement,” Rapkin wrote in an email to POLITICO.")
It isn't the biggest point in the world. I meant that change as a minor part of something larger I was working on but it got too late and I stopped.
Here's what I was working on: I discovered that when Melania was interviewed by People magazine for their Sept 2015 cover story on the Trumps [1], she described in more detail than anyone now discussing this seems aware of, a series of visas and status documents starting in 1996 with a series of fairly easy to get temporary visas, to the last harder to get visa she applied for in 1998, to her green card and ultimately on to US citizenship. The problem for her is that the visa she applied for in 1998 seems like it was the first one that would have allowed her to work legally in the US, although it seems clear she was working in NYC from 1996 onward, some say 1995.
People republished this quote a few days ago in another article [2] Here it is. Melania's own words appear in italics:
"Melania told PEOPLE she came to the United States to model in 1996 on a visa. She explained the process:
"You come on visa and you have a few times you need to fly back to Europe to stamp the visa and you come back and have another visa," she said. "I apply for the visa after two years when I was here. I went through long process through the lawyers – you need to show all your work, why you're coming here, [etc]. I went from five years when I had the green card you apply for citizenship – you cannot even apply before."
The words in bold are the statement about the 1998 visa. This application sounds exactly like what a fashion model would have to do to get an H-1B3 because she says "you need to show all your work". Fashion models seeking an H-1B3 have to show the US Citizenship and Immigration Service that they are of "distinguished merit and ability". [3] They need to show "tear sheets" i.e. pages published in magazines showing photographs of them doing modelling work, the more the better, the more prestigious the magazine the better. [4] You don't need to "show all your work" to get a visa that doesn't allow you to work, and you don't need to show your work to get a green card.
In this account, she's talking like she came to the US in 1996 on a tourist or business visa which she renewed by flying back to Slovenia periodically until 1998 when she applied for the visa that did allow her to work, i.e. the H-1B3. A person holding an H-1B3 can, in some cases, "adjust status" to a green card, which can explain how Melania got her green card in 2001. Reports that Melania got her green card because she was married previously to someone other than Donald Trump [5] seem less credible, in part because Melania denies this and no hard evidence that she was married then is available, and also because if she did have a green card due to marriage in 2001 she could apply to become a citizen in three years, i.e. two years earlier than she did. She is complaining in that People quote that she had to wait five years before she could "even apply".
There are claims that when Melania posed for the photos that place her as working in NYC in 1995 she was not paid and hence she would not have been in violation of whatever visa she held at that time. However, according to advice for models hoping to work in the US maintained online by the Daryanani Law Group, "As with any individual coming to the US to perform productive labor, models coming to work in the US must first secure a work visa, even if it is unpaid work for a fashion show. If not, there could be potentially serious repercussions to both the model’s future US visa applications as well as to the sponsoring US agency." [6] Jrandomcanuck ( talk) 02:01, 11 August 2016 (UTC)
Ok so now we have a new problem, which is that the now-first sentence of the section says that "Trump's account" may have contained inconsistencies without describing what that account was. Can the issue be solved by restoring the sentence but changing it from "Trump said" to "Trump indicated"? Generally speaking, nodding means "yes" and I'm not aware of any reliable source suggesting that Trump did not in fact take this position on her immigration history. -- Dr. Fleischman ( talk) 04:19, 11 August 2016 (UTC)
References
People magazine only put part of this cover story online. To see the quote referred to above see footnote 2. where the relevant section was republished August 6 2016
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The H-1B3 category for fashion models requires that the distinguished merit and ability be demonstrated for the model. In order to show "recognition" in the fashion industry, an applicant must show several significant fashion "tear-sheets." Frequently models will work in Europe or Asia to get fashion jobs which will qualify them for a U.S. visa.
The H-1B3 category for fashion models requires that the distinguished merit and ability be demonstrated for the model. In order to show "recognition" in the fashion industry, an applicant must show several significant fashion "tear-sheets." Frequently models will work in Europe or Asia to get fashion jobs which will qualify them for a U.S. visa.
Michael Wildes, an immigration attorney who worked for the Trump organization, told Univision's investigative unit that she obtained a green card four years earlier in 2001, 'based on marriage
I don't think I want to get into the fray on this article, but I don't see anything in the edit history to suggest this has already addressed. IMHO either this should be added to the article in the section on her immigration status... or someone should give a cogent reason for not including it. rce,
Melania Trump Photographer Says She Did Not Get Paid Amid Illegal Immigration Accusations
One of the inconsistencies in her account is that her description of having to return periodically to Slovenia to get her visa renewed suggests she was on a regular tourist visa. This would not have allowed her to work for pay legally in 1995. However,
“ | Jarl Ale de Basseville told Inside Edition: "She didn’t get paid. No magazine at the time paid their models." | ” |
"Inside Edition" probably counts as a reliable source, and it's verifiable that "Inside Edition" reported it. The verifiable fact is something that was said: that Jarl Ale de Basseville said that she was not paid.
Dpbsmith (talk) 16:38, 7 August 2016 (UTC)
On the other hand, the Daryanani Law Group Blog contains a pageCite error: The <ref>
tag has too many names (see the
help page). discussing immigration issues for models wishing to work in New York that warns models to secure a work visa prior to modelling "even if it is unpaid work for a fashion show", adding that if proper documents are not obtained, "there could be potentially serious repercussions to both the model's future US visa applications as well as to the sponsoring agency". The story that some of Trump's earliest work was "unpaid" could have been floated in the interest of anyone involved wishing to avoid these potentially serious repercussions....
Jrandomcanuck (
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15:49, 11 August 2016 (UTC)
I immigrated to the U.S. legally. It is hard to do. Websites maintained by lawyers were excellent sources of information for me as I navigated through the process. Can someone explain why a law firm specializing in advising fashion models for decades in NYC about how to obtain proper visas is not a reliable source worthy of using as a citation in Wikipedia, on a matter that falls specifically into their area of expertise, i.e. is it legal to work without a work visa in the US even if you are not paid for that work?
If whatever a law firm puts on the internet is suspect, why is whatever the photographer who took the recently published controversial photos of Ms Trump says taken to be "reliable"? A photographer who employed undocumented models, if this were the case and if this fact came to the attention of the US Citizenship and Immigration Service, is subject to penalties under US law. Therefore that photographer would have an incentive to come up with a story. Unfortunately for people who think that even if photos place Ms Trump as working in New York in 1995 any problem will go away if the story is she was not being paid, the USCIS takes a dim view of any work done without a work visa paid or unpaid.
It is of interest in an account of Ms Trump's immigration status that someone she worked with in 1995 says he did not pay her, but it is also of interest that lawyers working in New York specializing in advising people like Ms Trump warn all models not to work without a work visa even if its unpaid work. Jrandomcanuck ( talk) 02:55, 13 August 2016 (UTC)
on Visa policy of the United States but found nothing. Anyway, it doesn't matter: you'll soon find that Wikipedia has lots of articles that aren't up to snuff, but that's almost never a reason to ignore our standards. We have so many bad articles that, were that an acceptable argument, we would have no content guidelines left! Also, our sourcing and content guidelines are taken most seriously for biographies of living persons (BLPs), especially controversial material on BLPs, which this undoubtedly is. Rebb ing 07:45, 13 August 2016 (UTC)usalawyers
References
He said it was possible she came to the U.S. on a visitor visa to check out the modeling agency, a practice he said was common when foreign models were considering making the jump to New York. 'They come to meet the client to see if they really should come to New York,' he said, noting that the process often includes taking photos to build a portfolio to attract bigger-name modeling contracts.
Keeping in mind the importance of our NPOV mission, I wonder if anyone has concrete information about Ms. Melania Trump's language skills. The reason I ask is that if she truly speaks both fluent French and German, she should have English pretty well mastered, in terms of case, word-strings, syntax and tense. I've noticed some English language irregularities that might not happen if fluent in both Romance and Germanic descent languages. I am only raising this as a question, not affirming or denying anything. Whoever raises these discussions, I am not certain; I've heard claims of 12 languages... KSRolph ( talk) 01:02, 29 July 2016 (UTC)
The webiste with the false claiming was secured 155 times between März 8, 2006 and Mai 29, 2016. According to this it was updated with a new picture inbetween and claimed a graduate starting 2006. To say it was created 2012 as Melanie Drumpf confessed in a tweet seems wrong. It is a lie over a lie. To have a - political correct expressed - false statements (over here one would say lie) about degrees qualifies for directly elected politicians in most Europe states to step down immediatly. (It is about to happend right now in Germany with a Member of regional parlament Ms. Petra Hinz claiming to have had a minor diploma called Staatsexamina. She only refuses to do, as long as she is in hospital.) I wonder, if this is not checked in the immigration paperwork before one gets US citizen? https://web.archive.org/web/20060703002515/http://melaniatrump.com/bio/ https://web.archive.org/web/20090513030608/http://www.melaniatrump.com/bio/ https://web.archive.org/web/20091205170719/http://www.melaniatrump.com/bio https://web.archive.org/web/20130201061342/http://www.melaniatrump.com/bio/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.177.211.2 ( talk) 12:42, 10 August 2016 (UTC)
I have removed a sentence saying that she testified under oath that she had a degree. The edit went way beyond that and into BLP territory, suggesting possible perjury, for which the sourcing was nowhere near strong enough. One of the sources was Jezebel (website) and another was Racked.com; neither of those qualify as a Reliable Source. The third was the Washington Post which is fine as far as it went, but it didn't go nearly as far as the deleted sentence. In a search just now I found no other reliable source with any mention of this at all. Without SIGNIFICANT coverage from RELIABLE sources it does not belong here. -- MelanieN ( talk) 20:29, 22 August 2016 (UTC)
I have removed, as a potential BLP violation, this material which was just added: "On August 22, 2016, Trump's lawyer Charles J. Harder threatened to take legal action against tabloids such as The Daily Mail because he believed that their statements towards Trump are "100% false". These claims include that Trump was an escort in the 1990s. [1]" The source is reliable: The New York Times. But "lawyer says he might sue" talk is common, kind of a nothingburger of a story unless it results in an actual suit. And it has the unfortunate result of sneaking tabloid accusations that are in themselves BLP violations into a Wikipedia article. -- MelanieN ( talk) 05:10, 23 August 2016 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | → | Archive 5 |
So was she born in '70 or '74?
Different sources on the net have either one or the other. IMDB.com, for example, shows her year of birth as 1970. Amchow78 00:22, 12 November 2005 (UTC)
The article says she anglicized her name to "Knauss", but Knauss is not an Anglo name; it's German/Swedish.
@ Vesuvius Dogg: I grant the validity of your concerns as expressed at my TalkPage on 2015-09-05, where you wrote: "From WP:BLP: "In the case of public figures, there will be a multitude of reliable published sources, and BLPs should simply document what these sources say. If an allegation or incident is noteworthy, relevant, and well documented, it belongs in the article – even if it is negative and the subject dislikes all mention of it. If you cannot find multiple reliable third-party sources documenting the allegation or incident, leave it out. Professor JR, you have made wholesale deletions from this page, incorrectly concluding that Melania Trump's comments in 1999 to Howard Stern are tabloid-sourced (although Joyce Wadler's interview, which repeated the "not much" quote and elicited Knauss' own response to it, originally appeared in The New York Times, and Bloomberg is anything but a tabloid, although you removed that August 2015 reference entirely). I'm under the impression that any potentially unflattering insights related to Melania Trump and not already echoed on her own promotional website is unsuitable, in your eyes, for inclusion, up to and including the rather benign fact that she is raising her child in both English and Slovenian, and that she has been unavailable for recent interviews but both supports and intends to play a role campaigning for her husband. Believe me, I take WP:BLP seriously, but I feel like you are stripping the article almost to the point of non-utility, deferring to its bare-bones major source, which is Mrs. Trump's own promotional website focussed on her jewelry and caviar cold cream. That's a shame, because there are RS sources to give the article depth and balance, so it reads less like the PR copy which has previously been suggested for deletion. After a partial restoration of some of what you've removed, I'd appreciate moving the discussion to the article's Talk page (if you continue to object to what I've added) so that we can together find consensus." Vesuvius Dogg (talk) 12:07, 5 September 2015 (UTC)
@
Vesuvius Dogg: Please note that I have added back in the sourced bilingual bit about the Trumps' son, as well as making a few other minor edits to this article, but have left out the nude-photo stuff, etc., as in my opinion it's probably not worthy, and a bit gratuitous, to call attention to it here. See what you think.
---
Professor JR (
talk)
10:29, 7 September 2015 (UTC)
Donald Trump is interviewed by HollywoodReporter and is asked about his wife.
Headline-1: The Donald Trump Conversation: Murdoch, Ailes, NBC and the Rush of Being TV's "Ratings Machine"
QUOTE: When will you get Melania out there talking about you? "Pretty soon. She wants to do it. She is a very confident person. You've seen her on The View, and you've seen her on different shows. Larry King. You've seen her being interviewed. She's got a great style, and she would be an amazing first lady with heart." -- AstroU ( talk) 05:12, 20 August 2015 (UTC) -- PS: FYI for future editing.
Headline-2: The Donald Trump Conversation: Murdoch, Ailes, NBC and the Rush of Being TV's "Ratings Machine
QUOTE: "What would Melania care about as first lady?" She would care very much about women's issues. We're talking about mostly medical issues but women's issues. She was very strong on that with me the other day. Ivanka and Melania said, "You're not getting fairly treated on your feeling toward women." My mother was this incredible woman. I have known incredible women. I have many women executives, frankly, that are better than my men executives. I pay them the same or more." -- AstroU ( talk) 05:17, 20 August 2015 (UTC) -- PS: FYI for additional future editing.
More news for more future editing (a lot of comments brought out by Barbara Walters. There are pictures and direct quotes in this article/interview.
Headline-3: Barbara Walters Is Shocked that Melania Trump Is Smart Because She's Also Beautiful
QUOTE: "Barbara Walters: ... maybe because she's so beautiful, we don't expect her to be as smart as she is." -- AstroU ( talk) 22:15, 21 November 2015 (UTC) -- PS: FYI for future: (a lot of informatin here.)
Many Wikipedia articles have audio for readers who are interested. Does she (or Donald Trump) say 'Mel-Lawn-ia' or 'Mel-Layne-ia'. Americanized might be 'layne' but the European might be 'lawn' in my lifetime experience. -- Charles Edwin Shipp ( talk) 21:12, 17 August 2015 (UTC) -- PS: This would be to improve the article.
Many Wikipedia articles have audio for readers who are interested. -- Charles Edwin Shipp ( talk) 08:46, 13 October 2015 (UTC)
According to people who knew the family, he was. FYI. Vesuvius Dogg ( talk) 19:10, 14 February 2016 (UTC)
Speaking of 'notability', the future First Lady just became more 'notable'. People vote for First Lady, too.
Headline-1: Things just got ugly: Trump retweets unflattering image of Heidi Cruz compared to Melania before Ted hits back at Donald saying 'real men don't attack women'
QUOTE: "Trump retweets unflattering image of Heidi Cruz compared to Melania; Ted hits back at Donald saying 'real men don't attack women' " -- AstroU ( talk) 13:17, 25 March 2016 (UTC) -- PS: FYI for future editing. NOTE the very interesting and attractive pictures and a video from Heidi Cruz. Call it "The First Lady Wars". They do this for media attention.
We have conflicting reports about whether Melania Trump actually graduated with a degree from the University of Ljubljana. Does anyone have definite and unequivocal evidence that she does indeed have a degree from said institution and that said degree is in "design and architecture"?
Here are the conflicts:
So which one is it? Does she have or not have a degree?
Let's keep the discussion civilized folks.
— Ahnoneemoos ( talk) 22:00, 27 March 2016 (UTC)
Who is this person apart from Donald Trump? Does the person's innate biographical interest rise to the level of entry in an encyclopaedia, or is it just, as it appears, celebrity accessorising? I believe this entry should be stricken. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.242.138.173 ( talk) 22:47, 14 December 2013 (UTC)
I agree. Apart from some minor modelling, the only details of her life here are about her relationship to Trump, including tabloid style details of her wedding, etc. Ashmoo ( talk) 08:19, 16 July 2015 (UTC)
Since she might the the First Lady, it would be wise to wait and see. -- Charles Edwin Shipp ( talk) 19:40, 6 August 2015 (UTC) -- The real question is, "Are Wikipedia readers interested in learning about Melania Trump?"
The “potential First Lady” argument is inappropriate, and she really is famous only because she is married to Trump. But she is kind of famous, so I would say leave the article. If you disagree, then what about all the other Trump’s relatives that have their own Wikipedia articles – would you strike them down also? I would argue that not that many people would know these people, if it were not for Donald Trump. SyaWgnignahCehT ( talk) 21:41, 11 August 2015 (UTC)
If you go to the Sports Illustrated Swimsuit edition infobox, you'll see almost every model in that edition is important enough for a Wikipedia page. (This is totally not my specialty but somehow I ended up here.) >> M.P.Schneider,LC ( parlemus • feci) 05:11, 22 February 2016 (UTC)
The question was raised last year, things changed since, and also in WP the quality of sources is also important. When the question was raised there were some articles in gossip magazines, nothing really of quality, so, the comment about "celebrity accessorising" was a fair point.For ex. Ivanka Trump was mentioned by Forbes, big difference, it is a serious source, not a tabloid or men magazine.But since last year Mrs. Trump also got coverage in quality sources, for ex. Washington Post, etc. Bialosz ( talk) 09:51, 29 March 2016 (UTC)
For some reason her commercial ventures have disappeared from the article. Shouldn't they be restored to her career history? Vesuvius Dogg ( talk) 15:53, 7 May 2016 (UTC)
Melania Trump stated that she speaks Italian, in addition to the languages listed in this WP article. She stated this when being interviewed by Greta Von Susteren. The interview aired on the Fox News Channel on Saturday, May 28, 2016. I think this should be added to this article. I would have done so myself, but I don't know the proper citation or link. Lyttle-Wight ( talk) 00:48, 29 May 2016 (UTC)
Knavs is itself a Slavicisation of German Knauss, right? -- YOMAL SIDOROFF-BIARMSKII ( talk) 16:10, 19 July 2016 (UTC)
Please add Reince Priebus' quote into Wikipedia that It'd be reasonable to fire the speechwriter. Source: http://www.bostonherald.com/news/us_politics/2016/07/rnc_chairman_reince_priebus_itd_be_reasonable_to_fire_melania_trumps — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.65.234.214 ( talk) 15:37, 19 July 2016 (UTC)
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I guess someone that it was funny to list her school as Velvet Jones School of Technology. This needs to be removed.
96.59.200.129 (
talk)
21:48, 19 July 2016 (UTC)
Is there any evidence that the Trumps have ever actually contributed money to The Breast Cancer Research Foundation? That's actually a highly-regarded organization. If she's done something good, it would be nice to mention it. I would be impressed.
OTOH, "associated" violates WP:WEASEL. If all she did was show up at one of their parties, that's not significant. That's like saying you're associated with the Metropolitan Opera because you saw an opera there. Unless someone has a WP:RS to show that she was doing some meaningful charity work, the section should be deleted. -- Nbauman ( talk) 22:34, 19 July 2016 (UTC)
And one of the sources is just a collection of photos from some BCRF event and I presume, she's in there. That's not enough. So I removed it. Volunteer Marek ( talk) 22:58, 19 July 2016 (UTC)
Strike that, both sources are just photos. Volunteer Marek ( talk) 22:59, 19 July 2016 (UTC)
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Please add them following to subsection 2016 NRC Speech Controversy. Source: https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2016/07/19/politics/melania-trump-michelle-obama-speech/index.html
Melania Trump's speech, July 2016:
"From a young age, my parents impressed on me the values that you work hard for what you want in life, that your word is your bond and you do what you say and keep your promise, that you treat people with respect. They taught and showed me values and morals in their daily lives. That is a lesson that I continue to pass along to our son," Trump said.
And we need to pass those lessons on to the many generations to follow. Because we want our children in this nation to know that the only limit to your achievements is the strength of your dreams and your willingness to work for them."
Michelle Obama's speech, on August 25, 2008:
"And Barack and I were raised with so many of the same values: that you work hard for what you want in life; that your word is your bond and you do what you say you're going to do; that you treat people with dignity and respect, even if you don't know them, and even if you don't agree with them.
And Barack and I set out to build lives guided by these values, and to pass them on to the next generation. Because we want our children -- and all children in this nation -- to know that the only limit to the height of your achievements is the reach of your dreams and your willingness to work for them."
Rs21867 (
talk)
05:55, 19 July 2016 (UTC)
{{
edit semi-protected}}
template.
MediaKill13 (
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10:56, 20 July 2016 (UTC)![]() | This
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Can you please remove the campaign-advertising words (Jason Miller's statement) from the article, or at least display them in a less prominent way. They are certainly full of marketing lies, what is of no encyclopedic value for the biography of Mrs. Trump, as such campaigning language is widely known and nothing notable in particular. Repeating those by-word only multiplicates their advertising effect and outreach, what Wikipedia (as far as I knew up to now?) is not for.
92.225.134.220 ( talk) 11:48, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
Is the talk page template above that says "This article was proposed for deletion by an editor in the past." necessary? It does not even link to a deletion discussion. --- Another Believer ( Talk) 15:22, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
The most prominently displayed part is the "statement by the campaign's senior communications advisor, Jason Miller:
In writing her beautiful speech, ..."
That is far from being neutral (called "NPOV" here wasn't it?). Wikipedia, do you get paid for such blatant campaign-advertising?? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.225.134.220 ( talk) 11:22, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
The entire RNC Speech section must be deleted until an editor is willing to write about it in a NPOV manner. The last few sentences read: "Following Trump's speech, various media outlets reported the similarities, stating that Trump's speech was "awkward", embarrassing" and "an act of plagiarism". Various media outlets also suggested that members of Donald Trump's presidential campaign should respond to the accusations. Prior to delivering the speech, the Cable News Network (CNN) reported that Trump and a speechwriter had been "working on the speech" for the past "five to six weeks"."
These comments from "various media outlets" were in fact made by individuals who are self described commentators, not hard news reporters. Claims that a speech was "awkward, and embarrassing" are inappropriate to include in an encyclopedic article. Wikipedia is not a tabloid, the perceptions of a few media hosts immediately following a speech have no place here.
50.189.1.9 ( talk) 06:28, 19 July 2016 (UTC)
My mother gave me a very similar speach many times before either lady was born. When I here either speech it reminds me of my mother. Should I complain that both stole my mom's speech. No, every mother should be saying the same same thing to their children. Saltysailor ( talk) 04:19, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
Please add this to wikipedia https://www.yahoo.com/news/melania-trump-speech-writer-mciver-000000807.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.65.234.214 ( talk) 17:54, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
It seems like users are divided about mentioning that media have questioned if she have used the lyrics to the song Never Gonna Give You Up. On the one hand, Volunteer Marek had removed the information because the article is "a freakin' BLP". On the other hand Ribbet32 mentioned that this information was published by reputable sources such as Time Magazine and New York Magazine. So I propose that we should have a discussion whether to include it in the article or not. Yoshiman6464 ( talk) 16:14, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
It has been proposed that the article Melania Trump speech plagiarism controversy be merged/redirected into 2016 Republican National Convention#Melania Trump's speech. Obviously some of the material will be retained at this article as well. To discuss whether the "controversy" article should remain as a separate article or be merged/redirected, please go to Talk:Melania Trump speech plagiarism controversy. -- MelanieN ( talk) 20:11, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
Skibumpmc, you have now removed reliably sourced and highly significant content from the lead section twice without explanation ( here, here). Please do not edit war. Could you please explain why you're in favor of removing this information? -- Dr. Fleischman ( talk) 19:28, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
It seems like the speech would warrant its own article for BLP purposes, especially considering a lot of the fallout, excuses and fingerpointing is not going to be about her specifically. This fiasco is truly one for the ages and meets notability requirements. —Мандичка YO 😜 22:46, 19 July 2016 (UTC)
I agree, a separate article seems appropriate. I redirected Melania Trump speech plagiarism controversy to this article for now, but I would welcome its expansion. --- Another Believer ( Talk) 14:53, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
Disagree, a separate article is not needed. It's a minor point, not noteworthy of an article, the news channels have already cited several speeches by Obama that were allegedly plagerized, that would require a separate article for each speech according to this type of reasoning. An aide has taken credit for the noted error in Melania's speech already, so its not worth of an article. Melania's speech was well received. StarMountain ( talk) 17:53, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
I was bold and moved content over to Melania Trump speech plagiarism controversy. Please help improve if you are interested. --- Another Believer ( Talk) 19:09, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
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After the mention of her plagiarism, it should be noted that Meredith McIver made a statement explaining the issue.
Bobbert723 (
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23:03, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
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Remove this sentence: Television personality Barbara Walters, impressed with Trump's intelligence when she met her, has said of her: "Maybe because she's so pretty, we don't expect her to be as smart as she is."[36]
Source not credible and neither Walters or Rush are qualified experts who can discuss her intelligence or IQ. Characterization, not a fact.
R2D2 28 (
talk)
22:51, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
Hi, I've tagged the lead with {{ undue weight section}}. In my opinion, the plagiarism accusation is a recentism that will soon become pretty much forgotten, a minor episode in the life of M. Trump. As such, its inclusion in the lead as an independent paragraph goes against WP:NPOV, which states: "For example, discussion of isolated events, criticisms, or news reports about a subject may be verifiable and impartial, but still disproportionate to their overall significance to the article topic. This is a concern especially in relation to recent events that may be in the news." -- Eleassar my talk 20:20, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
It's totally appropriate to cover the plagiarism in depth in this article. It's really the main thing for which she is known and has received a large amount of news coverage and commentary across the planet, so the current coverage is not undue in any way. If anything, it's too short. -- Tataral ( talk) 22:10, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
Someone should check this article for copyright violations. Just sayin' Volunteer Marek ( talk) 19:12, 19 July 2016 (UTC)
The following edit, below, needs to be added to clarify the matter, and be balanced, but I can not add it, since I am not a registered editor. Please, no one lecture me on "registering," since I don't think highly of being bullied and arguing. I can contribute just fine, as it is, and my contributions can stand or fall on their own.
This article is "semi-protected," and this edit can't be done by me, but here it is, if it helps:
To be more precise, McIver places some of the blame on Ms. Trump: "In a statement issued by the campaign, Meredith McIver took the blame but made it clear that Mrs. Trump knew the passages were from the first lady's speech." [1]
Thank you. 96.59.186.103 ( talk) 23:02, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
References
As of June 19. 2016, Melania Trump's personal online website claims that Melania earned a "a degree in design and architecture at University in Slovenia." [1] The official RNC schedule also states that Melania Trump obtained a degree in design and architecture at University in Slovenia. [2].Several news agencies, including The Huffington Post [3], Politico [4], and Gawker [5] have disputed these claims, noting that she dropped out after the first year at university. Other than the Trumps' statements indicating otherwise, there is no evidence that Melania Trump was awarded a degree from any U.S. or foreign institution. -- Sterilizedusername ( talk) 18:11, 19 July 2016 (UTC)
• Sbmeirow • Talk • 05:45, 29 July 2016 (UTC)
The article currently says: "Her biography in the 2016 Republican National Convention official program also incorrectly stated that she had obtained a degree in Slovenia." Should this sentence be removed? It strikes me as not particularly biographical and perhaps a little coatrack-y. This article is about Trump, not about the RNC. And lots of ordinarily reliable media outlets said that Trump got the degree before the truth was exposed. Why would we call out the RNC and not mention those media outlets? -- Dr. Fleischman ( talk) 18:41, 29 July 2016 (UTC)
References
The summary says she is/was a fashion-designer, but there is no mention of this in her career on the page. If she was a designer, add that information. If she wasn't a designer, then remove it from the summary. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alchemista2 ( talk • contribs) 03:34, 26 July 2016 (UTC)
In the wake of Melania's plagiarism scandal, and the incorrect assertion in the RNC program that she obtained a degree from the University of Ljubljana, the Trump campaign has scrubbed from the Internet her own promotional website, which included the falsehood about her college credentials. I note that the sentence claiming that she worked "with photographers including Helmut Newton, Patrick Demarchelier, and Mario Testino" is also sourced back to Melania's website, and an RS interview repeating that fact clearly drew from the website (and also claimed she was a college graduate). I have independently researched Melania's modeling claims and found no independent evidence she worked with any of these three photographers. Can anyone find them? Otherwise I will delete. Vesuvius Dogg ( talk) 01:55, 29 July 2016 (UTC)
There's currently a bit of an edit war going on regarding whether her web site redirect is notable enough to include in this article or not. I suggest we talk it out here before making further edits. Pinging DrFleischman and Jason Quinn. Funcrunch ( talk) 07:18, 2 August 2016 (UTC)
I agree that the sudden disappearance of her website got significant coverage and should be mentioned here (just a mention, not a big deal). -- MelanieN ( talk) 00:38, 3 August 2016 (UTC)
Consequences of Providing False Testimony During Naturalization - did Melania Knaves lie about having an Architecture degree?
Can someone expand this section, or add in, and find out if journalists have looked into her application?? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.191.132.75 ( talk) 15:37, 31 July 2016 (UTC)
Politico has
a good overview of her visa history and the current situation. At the very least it should be used to source info about her immigration, but it should also be used to source generally a statement about her disputed visa status.
czar
11:40, 4 August 2016 (UTC)
Is it germanize or rather Germanize? 75.172.241.80 ( talk) 08:28, 5 August 2016 (UTC)
References
New York Post's " Menalia Trump like you’ve never seen her before has been making headline in the past few days. Can we add it to the article? -- 74.190.106.98 ( talk) 07:01, 3 August 2016 (UTC)
I think we should aim for some consensus on whether we should be referring to the subject of the article as "Melania Trump" or "Melania Knauss." My position is that we should use "Trump" throughout our article.
Currently it looks like there's an attempt to use "Knauss" for sections related to her pre-marriage life and "Trump" for sections related to her married life. This doesn't seem to comport with the relevant guideline or the bulk of the reliable sources. Most (but not all) of our cited sources appear to use "Trump" for Melania's pre-married life as well. The guideline says we should use what is used by the majority of independent, reliable English-language sources with extra weight given to sources written after Melania changed her name. Also, the current approach reads illogically, with phrases such as "Knauss has a sister" (present tense, so should be "Trump has a sister") and "In early August 2016, it was reported that Knauss' account..." (she was "Trump" both in 2016 and for most of the time of her account). -- Dr. Fleischman ( talk) 17:55, 8 August 2016 (UTC)
To distinguish between people with the same surname in the same article or page, use given names or complete names to refer to each of the people upon first mention. For subsequent uses, refer to the people by given names for clarity and brevity. When referring to the person who is the subject of the article, use just the surname unless the reference is part of a list of family members or if use of the surname alone will be confusing.
I changed the sentence from "Melania said" to she "nodded in agreement" because the writer she nodded her head to is the only source saying Melania came anywhere near to saying she entered the US with that specific visa. No one else is quoting Melania saying she even knows what an H-1B3 is, or what might distinguish it from a B-1 or B-2. She may have nodded in agreement to affirm that she possessed a visa rather than any particular visa.
(the quote in the Politico story referred to Mickey Rapkin: “When I interviewed Melania, I mentioned that she’d come to New York on that H-1B visa, and she nodded in agreement,” Rapkin wrote in an email to POLITICO.")
It isn't the biggest point in the world. I meant that change as a minor part of something larger I was working on but it got too late and I stopped.
Here's what I was working on: I discovered that when Melania was interviewed by People magazine for their Sept 2015 cover story on the Trumps [1], she described in more detail than anyone now discussing this seems aware of, a series of visas and status documents starting in 1996 with a series of fairly easy to get temporary visas, to the last harder to get visa she applied for in 1998, to her green card and ultimately on to US citizenship. The problem for her is that the visa she applied for in 1998 seems like it was the first one that would have allowed her to work legally in the US, although it seems clear she was working in NYC from 1996 onward, some say 1995.
People republished this quote a few days ago in another article [2] Here it is. Melania's own words appear in italics:
"Melania told PEOPLE she came to the United States to model in 1996 on a visa. She explained the process:
"You come on visa and you have a few times you need to fly back to Europe to stamp the visa and you come back and have another visa," she said. "I apply for the visa after two years when I was here. I went through long process through the lawyers – you need to show all your work, why you're coming here, [etc]. I went from five years when I had the green card you apply for citizenship – you cannot even apply before."
The words in bold are the statement about the 1998 visa. This application sounds exactly like what a fashion model would have to do to get an H-1B3 because she says "you need to show all your work". Fashion models seeking an H-1B3 have to show the US Citizenship and Immigration Service that they are of "distinguished merit and ability". [3] They need to show "tear sheets" i.e. pages published in magazines showing photographs of them doing modelling work, the more the better, the more prestigious the magazine the better. [4] You don't need to "show all your work" to get a visa that doesn't allow you to work, and you don't need to show your work to get a green card.
In this account, she's talking like she came to the US in 1996 on a tourist or business visa which she renewed by flying back to Slovenia periodically until 1998 when she applied for the visa that did allow her to work, i.e. the H-1B3. A person holding an H-1B3 can, in some cases, "adjust status" to a green card, which can explain how Melania got her green card in 2001. Reports that Melania got her green card because she was married previously to someone other than Donald Trump [5] seem less credible, in part because Melania denies this and no hard evidence that she was married then is available, and also because if she did have a green card due to marriage in 2001 she could apply to become a citizen in three years, i.e. two years earlier than she did. She is complaining in that People quote that she had to wait five years before she could "even apply".
There are claims that when Melania posed for the photos that place her as working in NYC in 1995 she was not paid and hence she would not have been in violation of whatever visa she held at that time. However, according to advice for models hoping to work in the US maintained online by the Daryanani Law Group, "As with any individual coming to the US to perform productive labor, models coming to work in the US must first secure a work visa, even if it is unpaid work for a fashion show. If not, there could be potentially serious repercussions to both the model’s future US visa applications as well as to the sponsoring US agency." [6] Jrandomcanuck ( talk) 02:01, 11 August 2016 (UTC)
Ok so now we have a new problem, which is that the now-first sentence of the section says that "Trump's account" may have contained inconsistencies without describing what that account was. Can the issue be solved by restoring the sentence but changing it from "Trump said" to "Trump indicated"? Generally speaking, nodding means "yes" and I'm not aware of any reliable source suggesting that Trump did not in fact take this position on her immigration history. -- Dr. Fleischman ( talk) 04:19, 11 August 2016 (UTC)
References
People magazine only put part of this cover story online. To see the quote referred to above see footnote 2. where the relevant section was republished August 6 2016
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The H-1B3 category for fashion models requires that the distinguished merit and ability be demonstrated for the model. In order to show "recognition" in the fashion industry, an applicant must show several significant fashion "tear-sheets." Frequently models will work in Europe or Asia to get fashion jobs which will qualify them for a U.S. visa.
The H-1B3 category for fashion models requires that the distinguished merit and ability be demonstrated for the model. In order to show "recognition" in the fashion industry, an applicant must show several significant fashion "tear-sheets." Frequently models will work in Europe or Asia to get fashion jobs which will qualify them for a U.S. visa.
Michael Wildes, an immigration attorney who worked for the Trump organization, told Univision's investigative unit that she obtained a green card four years earlier in 2001, 'based on marriage
I don't think I want to get into the fray on this article, but I don't see anything in the edit history to suggest this has already addressed. IMHO either this should be added to the article in the section on her immigration status... or someone should give a cogent reason for not including it. rce,
Melania Trump Photographer Says She Did Not Get Paid Amid Illegal Immigration Accusations
One of the inconsistencies in her account is that her description of having to return periodically to Slovenia to get her visa renewed suggests she was on a regular tourist visa. This would not have allowed her to work for pay legally in 1995. However,
“ | Jarl Ale de Basseville told Inside Edition: "She didn’t get paid. No magazine at the time paid their models." | ” |
"Inside Edition" probably counts as a reliable source, and it's verifiable that "Inside Edition" reported it. The verifiable fact is something that was said: that Jarl Ale de Basseville said that she was not paid.
Dpbsmith (talk) 16:38, 7 August 2016 (UTC)
On the other hand, the Daryanani Law Group Blog contains a pageCite error: The <ref>
tag has too many names (see the
help page). discussing immigration issues for models wishing to work in New York that warns models to secure a work visa prior to modelling "even if it is unpaid work for a fashion show", adding that if proper documents are not obtained, "there could be potentially serious repercussions to both the model's future US visa applications as well as to the sponsoring agency". The story that some of Trump's earliest work was "unpaid" could have been floated in the interest of anyone involved wishing to avoid these potentially serious repercussions....
Jrandomcanuck (
talk)
15:49, 11 August 2016 (UTC)
I immigrated to the U.S. legally. It is hard to do. Websites maintained by lawyers were excellent sources of information for me as I navigated through the process. Can someone explain why a law firm specializing in advising fashion models for decades in NYC about how to obtain proper visas is not a reliable source worthy of using as a citation in Wikipedia, on a matter that falls specifically into their area of expertise, i.e. is it legal to work without a work visa in the US even if you are not paid for that work?
If whatever a law firm puts on the internet is suspect, why is whatever the photographer who took the recently published controversial photos of Ms Trump says taken to be "reliable"? A photographer who employed undocumented models, if this were the case and if this fact came to the attention of the US Citizenship and Immigration Service, is subject to penalties under US law. Therefore that photographer would have an incentive to come up with a story. Unfortunately for people who think that even if photos place Ms Trump as working in New York in 1995 any problem will go away if the story is she was not being paid, the USCIS takes a dim view of any work done without a work visa paid or unpaid.
It is of interest in an account of Ms Trump's immigration status that someone she worked with in 1995 says he did not pay her, but it is also of interest that lawyers working in New York specializing in advising people like Ms Trump warn all models not to work without a work visa even if its unpaid work. Jrandomcanuck ( talk) 02:55, 13 August 2016 (UTC)
on Visa policy of the United States but found nothing. Anyway, it doesn't matter: you'll soon find that Wikipedia has lots of articles that aren't up to snuff, but that's almost never a reason to ignore our standards. We have so many bad articles that, were that an acceptable argument, we would have no content guidelines left! Also, our sourcing and content guidelines are taken most seriously for biographies of living persons (BLPs), especially controversial material on BLPs, which this undoubtedly is. Rebb ing 07:45, 13 August 2016 (UTC)usalawyers
References
He said it was possible she came to the U.S. on a visitor visa to check out the modeling agency, a practice he said was common when foreign models were considering making the jump to New York. 'They come to meet the client to see if they really should come to New York,' he said, noting that the process often includes taking photos to build a portfolio to attract bigger-name modeling contracts.
Keeping in mind the importance of our NPOV mission, I wonder if anyone has concrete information about Ms. Melania Trump's language skills. The reason I ask is that if she truly speaks both fluent French and German, she should have English pretty well mastered, in terms of case, word-strings, syntax and tense. I've noticed some English language irregularities that might not happen if fluent in both Romance and Germanic descent languages. I am only raising this as a question, not affirming or denying anything. Whoever raises these discussions, I am not certain; I've heard claims of 12 languages... KSRolph ( talk) 01:02, 29 July 2016 (UTC)
The webiste with the false claiming was secured 155 times between März 8, 2006 and Mai 29, 2016. According to this it was updated with a new picture inbetween and claimed a graduate starting 2006. To say it was created 2012 as Melanie Drumpf confessed in a tweet seems wrong. It is a lie over a lie. To have a - political correct expressed - false statements (over here one would say lie) about degrees qualifies for directly elected politicians in most Europe states to step down immediatly. (It is about to happend right now in Germany with a Member of regional parlament Ms. Petra Hinz claiming to have had a minor diploma called Staatsexamina. She only refuses to do, as long as she is in hospital.) I wonder, if this is not checked in the immigration paperwork before one gets US citizen? https://web.archive.org/web/20060703002515/http://melaniatrump.com/bio/ https://web.archive.org/web/20090513030608/http://www.melaniatrump.com/bio/ https://web.archive.org/web/20091205170719/http://www.melaniatrump.com/bio https://web.archive.org/web/20130201061342/http://www.melaniatrump.com/bio/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.177.211.2 ( talk) 12:42, 10 August 2016 (UTC)
I have removed a sentence saying that she testified under oath that she had a degree. The edit went way beyond that and into BLP territory, suggesting possible perjury, for which the sourcing was nowhere near strong enough. One of the sources was Jezebel (website) and another was Racked.com; neither of those qualify as a Reliable Source. The third was the Washington Post which is fine as far as it went, but it didn't go nearly as far as the deleted sentence. In a search just now I found no other reliable source with any mention of this at all. Without SIGNIFICANT coverage from RELIABLE sources it does not belong here. -- MelanieN ( talk) 20:29, 22 August 2016 (UTC)
I have removed, as a potential BLP violation, this material which was just added: "On August 22, 2016, Trump's lawyer Charles J. Harder threatened to take legal action against tabloids such as The Daily Mail because he believed that their statements towards Trump are "100% false". These claims include that Trump was an escort in the 1990s. [1]" The source is reliable: The New York Times. But "lawyer says he might sue" talk is common, kind of a nothingburger of a story unless it results in an actual suit. And it has the unfortunate result of sneaking tabloid accusations that are in themselves BLP violations into a Wikipedia article. -- MelanieN ( talk) 05:10, 23 August 2016 (UTC)