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Note also that megachurches attract participants through an array of recreations services, with singles clubs, softball teams, summer camps, study groups, and such. These create a social network for the church members that many find lacking in contemporary urban society. 209.99.30.178 October 15, 2003
Why is this included on this page? Does this have anything to do with megachurches in particular? If not, this segment should be removed (which I think it should). Akhenaton06 10:12, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
FAF - I can see where a twice a year churchgoer may have a problem with the Christmas 2005 closings, but as a regular attender of megachurches, I can attest to the following rationale for the closures:
I think complaints over the closures are a bunch of foolish sniping by people who seldom go to church, or just have a problem with this type of church in general. The megachurches are as imperfect as any other church. We will get to experience the Perfect Church in eternity. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.193.253.203 ( talk • contribs) 23:46, June 23, 2006
The article Criticisms of Mega Churches recently turned up on Wikipedia:Articles for deletion. I was also aware of the material at McChurch. I would propose merging both of those pages here, after editing for NPOV. The McChurch material strikes me as somewhat better, in that it cites its sources; while the Criticisms article was forked from an article about a specific megachurch and consists mostly of quotations. These would probably be better summarized with links or citations to the source material, and factored into the McChurch criticisms; they cover similar ground, IMO. What say ye? — Smerdis of Tlön 15:15, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
Please merge this content from a deleted article in where possible.
Many Christians have expressed concerns with Willow Creek, Saddleback Church, and other Megachurches. Critics raise issues with certain aspects the churches, citing a 'Walmart-esque' business model, a humanist worldview, unconventional worship styles, and Eastern influences. The "seeker-friendly" movement has been the subject of much debate. Those who criticize these churches assert that they are more interested with, and catering to, people's (often self-centred) "wants" rather than their real "need," that of Jesus Christ. The business model of Megachurches has been compared to that of major corporations in a recent Business Week article for their market-driven philosophy. Ingrid Schlueter, a prominent Christian radio host has said, "Of all the trends I've observed, the explosion of the "seeker"-centered megachurches is one of the most disturbing," citing the extensive use of entertainment and performance in church services. External Links
Thanks. Harro 5 22:25, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
Really? The only thing left for criticism is something Al Sharpton said? Who cares what Al Sharpton says? Is this an article about megachurches or Al Sharpton's agenda?
There is criticism on megachurches. Why was it all deleted except for that? Is wiki going to PCism? Then don't treat it like it's supposed to be about Christianity. Atwhatcost ( talk) 18:41, 7 July 2017 (UTC)
I added this part. I've seen it on new shows and read it elsewhere, but I don't have a citation on it. If someone could provide, it would help. Rt66lt 02:56, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
This is only relevant to the USA, and should be quoted as such. There are as many megachurches outside the USA as in it, and the article should be updated to be global. (as seen below) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dawesi ( talk • contribs) 23:16, 20 October 2014 (UTC)
It's now more than a month since the addition of the globalize notice, and the specific problems raised then appear to have been answered, along with many others. So, is it time to remove the tag? Andrewa 01:09, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
Is this a strictly Christian phenomenon, or are the equivalents in other religions? Schizombie 06:37, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
Should the Catholic phenomenon of huge parishes (aka Megaparish, McParish) similar in sizes to megachurches be mentioned in this article?-- 67.149.66.59 16:11, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
Here is some information from the Oxford English Dictionary concerning the term megachurch in case anyone wants to use it cite or otherwise revise unsourced statements in this article. The information is drawn from the "Draft Revision June 2001" online edition of the O.E.D. [2]
The term megachurch is found under the entry mega-, comb. form. Megachurch is mentioned within the third set of meanings under that entry (bolded text is for emphasis, not part of the original):
"3. Used as a prefix to denote something of great size, quantity, importance, or excellence, as megabank, -bash, -bid, -building, -business, -city, -deal, -event, -exhibition, -festival, -firm, -game, -hype, -liner, -mall, -market, -merger, -project, -resort. megabitch n. derogatory, an extremely malicious or treacherous woman. megacarrier n., a very large travel company, esp. an airline. megacentre n., a large out-of-town shopping centre. megachurch n. U.S., a church with an unusually large membership, esp. one preaching a conservative or evangelical form of Christianity and also offering a variety of educational and social activities. megadecibel n. [< MEGA- + DECIBEL n., as if from MEGA- 2] fig. and hyperbolically, a supposed unit of extreme loudness; an extremely loud sound, an extremely high degree of noise; freq. attrib. megadose n., a very large dose (of a vitamin, drug, etc.), spec. a dose which is at least ten times the recommended daily intake; also in extended use. megahit n., an extremely successful film, television programme, song, etc.; freq. attrib. megamachine n., (a) a social system dominated by technology and functioning without regard for specifically human needs; (b) a very large or powerful machine; a network of machines. megamedia n., the mass media regarded, collectively, as a large and powerful organization; freq. attrib. megastate n., (a) any of the larger states of the United States; (b) a large and powerful republic or federation of states. megatechnics n., extensive mechanization of a society with a highly developed technology. megatrend n., an important shift in the progress of a society or of any other particular field or activity; any major movement."
For the cited usages of megachurch found below the information provided above, the O.E.D. has the following known instances of public usage:
This is enough to validate or invalidate a fair amount of the first third of the megachurch article. One thing that I do not note in the data provided here, though, is any sort of mention of two-thousand or three-thousand congregants/members being the magic number necessary to define what is and is not a megachurch. That claim needs to either be cited (not likely) or revised. → P.MacUidhir (t) (c) 21:36, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
I have a concern about the "Criticism" section. It is getting rather long, and as there is no real "praise" or "affirmation" section in the article, it is starting to make the article give undue weight to the concerns of critics. Does anyone else share this concern? How should it be addressed? The relevant standard would seem to be WP:NPOV#Undue weight. Other discussion (essays, etc...) includes Wikipedia:NPOV tutorial#Space and balance and Wikipedia:Criticism#Criticism in a "Criticism" section. GRBerry 00:22, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
There is a theme in Wikipedia. Place a reference to "African Americans" into as many articles as it is generally possible to do. Even megachurch employs the theme. I never before heard of an "African American megachurch" until the appearance of Wikipedia. What on earth is an "African American megachurch?" GhostofSuperslum 14:20, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
Following the result of Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of megachurches, List of megachurches redirects here -- the page history is still available, if anyone wishes to make use of it, in the course of expanding the encyclopedia. Luna Santin 23:37, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
I have removed the text regarding the focus or lack thereof on opposition to "liberal issues". It has been flagged for a while as uncited, and there has been a long-running disagreement amongst editors as to whether too little or too much attention is paid to these issues in Megachurches. It seems to be a matter of personal opinion. BreathingMeat 22:54, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
Ok this article is classed as a "start" I'd like to see it move to FA someday. I'd also like to see if there is a way to incorporate the list of mega churches. I have mixed feelings on this. It felt lik ebefor that list was put to bed that randomn no-mega-churches were sprouting up on the page. is there a way to include this list ... or maybe just number by state with out specific churches listed? Can we lock the list ... what do folks think. Is it worth including at all? —Preceding unsigned comment added by M-BMor ( talk • contribs) 17:41, April 15, 2007
I have a vague impression that I do not know how to define verbally that "the South", defined as the southeastern USA, is in some ways culturally distinct from the rest of the country, and that the personalities of Southern churches reflect that, and moreover that this phenomenon of "megachurches", which I first heard of through this Wikipedia article, is part of that. How are they distributed geographically? Are there any "megachurches" in northern locales like Boston, Minneapolis, Seattle, etc? Michael Hardy 22:02, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
You can add another super mega church (over 10,000 "worshipers") to VA, the McLean Bible Church in Vienna, VA according to the Hartford study now has over 12,500 members. FrancisDane ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 15:41, 12 January 2011 (UTC).
The French language link of this page actually links to "Lakewood Church". Is this appropriate? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Atticuslai ( talk • contribs) 20:40, June 5, 2007
Virtually the entire article is dedicated to criticism with only 2 sentences used as an introduction. Someone should start a radical clean-up of the article to expand it and balance opinions. 71.204.43.208 02:04, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
Maybe it's just easier to bash megachurches than to find balanced information... But could we please try to keep POV out of the information sections? "a person who combines flamboyant sermons with the organizational skills needed to turn weekly worship into a production number." Tell me this isn't biased. Having a service which is planned and runs to time doesn't make it a production number... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 123.100.101.26 ( talk) 04:05, 30 October 2007 (UTC) After my comments were deleted - Oops... sorry, thought that a counter example or (my goodness) balance was a GOOD thing on Wikipedia. Why isn't the church in Acts an example of e mega-church? Define 'flamboyant' preaching... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 123.100.101.26 ( talk) 03:06, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
To the unidentified commentator just ahead of me, have you ever been to one of the "services" at these so-called Churches? I have. They are production numbers that would make Radio City Music Hall blush. McLean Bible Church which is the one I went to with a friend does not perform weddings, baptisms or funerals. Hello? How can it be a Christian Church? FrancisDane ( talk) 15:38, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
I realize "church" almost without exception (except! perhaps among Christians!) denotes a Christian body... Church, however, does not exclude non-Christian bodies from the definition of "church" (perhaps on the basis of the original definition of ekklesia?)... so this seems to me to beg the question... what about non-Christian bodies who weekly have attendances in excess of 2k? The Belz Great Synagogue in Jerusalem, for example, comes to mind...and I have no doubt that any number of other synagogues, to say nothing of Hindu and Buddhist shrines, and possibly also muslim houses of prayer, see as many adherents in weekly attendance. If "megachurch" is an exclusively Christian term, this needs to be better clarified in the article, if not even within its lead... Tomer talk 08:14, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
Some authors have asserted that mega-churches are opposed to ecumenism, the movement dedicated to uniting churches. It would be interesting if the present article could look into these charges laid against mega-churches. [3] ADM ( talk) 20:51, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
I think the percentage of nondenominational churches is wrong. Go to the Hartford Seminary website HIRR. They list all the megachurches in the US by denomination. Off the top of my head I don't think that "most" are non-denominational but tied to the baptist, assemblies of God, etc. More and more of these mega churches are not liking the financial scrutiny of being part of a recognized denomination and are becoming non-denominational, meaning that there is no financial reporting of their activities to anyone. FrancisDane ( talk) 15:34, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
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here are a couple of links -
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-nigeria-megachurches-insight-idUSKCN0I104F20141012 https://www.csmonitor.com/World/Global-News/2015/0724/Asian-African-megachurches-overtaking-US-congregations https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2017/sep/11/eat-pray-live-lagos-nigeria-megachurches-redemption-camp 88.111.90.165 ( talk) 20:51, 10 November 2018 (UTC) EE
Niteshift36 ( talk · contribs) removed DaveDaRave19 ( talk · contribs)'s recent addition related to claims that some megachurch pastors promote prosperity gospel. It's a simple concept and it was missing. I agree that not all churches are involved in this activity, but certainly many of the largest do. If it needs to be re-written, re-write it, but its addition was useful. Walter Görlitz ( talk) 18:56, 30 March 2021 (UTC)
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
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Note also that megachurches attract participants through an array of recreations services, with singles clubs, softball teams, summer camps, study groups, and such. These create a social network for the church members that many find lacking in contemporary urban society. 209.99.30.178 October 15, 2003
Why is this included on this page? Does this have anything to do with megachurches in particular? If not, this segment should be removed (which I think it should). Akhenaton06 10:12, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
FAF - I can see where a twice a year churchgoer may have a problem with the Christmas 2005 closings, but as a regular attender of megachurches, I can attest to the following rationale for the closures:
I think complaints over the closures are a bunch of foolish sniping by people who seldom go to church, or just have a problem with this type of church in general. The megachurches are as imperfect as any other church. We will get to experience the Perfect Church in eternity. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.193.253.203 ( talk • contribs) 23:46, June 23, 2006
The article Criticisms of Mega Churches recently turned up on Wikipedia:Articles for deletion. I was also aware of the material at McChurch. I would propose merging both of those pages here, after editing for NPOV. The McChurch material strikes me as somewhat better, in that it cites its sources; while the Criticisms article was forked from an article about a specific megachurch and consists mostly of quotations. These would probably be better summarized with links or citations to the source material, and factored into the McChurch criticisms; they cover similar ground, IMO. What say ye? — Smerdis of Tlön 15:15, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
Please merge this content from a deleted article in where possible.
Many Christians have expressed concerns with Willow Creek, Saddleback Church, and other Megachurches. Critics raise issues with certain aspects the churches, citing a 'Walmart-esque' business model, a humanist worldview, unconventional worship styles, and Eastern influences. The "seeker-friendly" movement has been the subject of much debate. Those who criticize these churches assert that they are more interested with, and catering to, people's (often self-centred) "wants" rather than their real "need," that of Jesus Christ. The business model of Megachurches has been compared to that of major corporations in a recent Business Week article for their market-driven philosophy. Ingrid Schlueter, a prominent Christian radio host has said, "Of all the trends I've observed, the explosion of the "seeker"-centered megachurches is one of the most disturbing," citing the extensive use of entertainment and performance in church services. External Links
Thanks. Harro 5 22:25, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
Really? The only thing left for criticism is something Al Sharpton said? Who cares what Al Sharpton says? Is this an article about megachurches or Al Sharpton's agenda?
There is criticism on megachurches. Why was it all deleted except for that? Is wiki going to PCism? Then don't treat it like it's supposed to be about Christianity. Atwhatcost ( talk) 18:41, 7 July 2017 (UTC)
I added this part. I've seen it on new shows and read it elsewhere, but I don't have a citation on it. If someone could provide, it would help. Rt66lt 02:56, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
This is only relevant to the USA, and should be quoted as such. There are as many megachurches outside the USA as in it, and the article should be updated to be global. (as seen below) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dawesi ( talk • contribs) 23:16, 20 October 2014 (UTC)
It's now more than a month since the addition of the globalize notice, and the specific problems raised then appear to have been answered, along with many others. So, is it time to remove the tag? Andrewa 01:09, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
Is this a strictly Christian phenomenon, or are the equivalents in other religions? Schizombie 06:37, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
Should the Catholic phenomenon of huge parishes (aka Megaparish, McParish) similar in sizes to megachurches be mentioned in this article?-- 67.149.66.59 16:11, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
Here is some information from the Oxford English Dictionary concerning the term megachurch in case anyone wants to use it cite or otherwise revise unsourced statements in this article. The information is drawn from the "Draft Revision June 2001" online edition of the O.E.D. [2]
The term megachurch is found under the entry mega-, comb. form. Megachurch is mentioned within the third set of meanings under that entry (bolded text is for emphasis, not part of the original):
"3. Used as a prefix to denote something of great size, quantity, importance, or excellence, as megabank, -bash, -bid, -building, -business, -city, -deal, -event, -exhibition, -festival, -firm, -game, -hype, -liner, -mall, -market, -merger, -project, -resort. megabitch n. derogatory, an extremely malicious or treacherous woman. megacarrier n., a very large travel company, esp. an airline. megacentre n., a large out-of-town shopping centre. megachurch n. U.S., a church with an unusually large membership, esp. one preaching a conservative or evangelical form of Christianity and also offering a variety of educational and social activities. megadecibel n. [< MEGA- + DECIBEL n., as if from MEGA- 2] fig. and hyperbolically, a supposed unit of extreme loudness; an extremely loud sound, an extremely high degree of noise; freq. attrib. megadose n., a very large dose (of a vitamin, drug, etc.), spec. a dose which is at least ten times the recommended daily intake; also in extended use. megahit n., an extremely successful film, television programme, song, etc.; freq. attrib. megamachine n., (a) a social system dominated by technology and functioning without regard for specifically human needs; (b) a very large or powerful machine; a network of machines. megamedia n., the mass media regarded, collectively, as a large and powerful organization; freq. attrib. megastate n., (a) any of the larger states of the United States; (b) a large and powerful republic or federation of states. megatechnics n., extensive mechanization of a society with a highly developed technology. megatrend n., an important shift in the progress of a society or of any other particular field or activity; any major movement."
For the cited usages of megachurch found below the information provided above, the O.E.D. has the following known instances of public usage:
This is enough to validate or invalidate a fair amount of the first third of the megachurch article. One thing that I do not note in the data provided here, though, is any sort of mention of two-thousand or three-thousand congregants/members being the magic number necessary to define what is and is not a megachurch. That claim needs to either be cited (not likely) or revised. → P.MacUidhir (t) (c) 21:36, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
I have a concern about the "Criticism" section. It is getting rather long, and as there is no real "praise" or "affirmation" section in the article, it is starting to make the article give undue weight to the concerns of critics. Does anyone else share this concern? How should it be addressed? The relevant standard would seem to be WP:NPOV#Undue weight. Other discussion (essays, etc...) includes Wikipedia:NPOV tutorial#Space and balance and Wikipedia:Criticism#Criticism in a "Criticism" section. GRBerry 00:22, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
There is a theme in Wikipedia. Place a reference to "African Americans" into as many articles as it is generally possible to do. Even megachurch employs the theme. I never before heard of an "African American megachurch" until the appearance of Wikipedia. What on earth is an "African American megachurch?" GhostofSuperslum 14:20, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
Following the result of Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of megachurches, List of megachurches redirects here -- the page history is still available, if anyone wishes to make use of it, in the course of expanding the encyclopedia. Luna Santin 23:37, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
I have removed the text regarding the focus or lack thereof on opposition to "liberal issues". It has been flagged for a while as uncited, and there has been a long-running disagreement amongst editors as to whether too little or too much attention is paid to these issues in Megachurches. It seems to be a matter of personal opinion. BreathingMeat 22:54, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
Ok this article is classed as a "start" I'd like to see it move to FA someday. I'd also like to see if there is a way to incorporate the list of mega churches. I have mixed feelings on this. It felt lik ebefor that list was put to bed that randomn no-mega-churches were sprouting up on the page. is there a way to include this list ... or maybe just number by state with out specific churches listed? Can we lock the list ... what do folks think. Is it worth including at all? —Preceding unsigned comment added by M-BMor ( talk • contribs) 17:41, April 15, 2007
I have a vague impression that I do not know how to define verbally that "the South", defined as the southeastern USA, is in some ways culturally distinct from the rest of the country, and that the personalities of Southern churches reflect that, and moreover that this phenomenon of "megachurches", which I first heard of through this Wikipedia article, is part of that. How are they distributed geographically? Are there any "megachurches" in northern locales like Boston, Minneapolis, Seattle, etc? Michael Hardy 22:02, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
You can add another super mega church (over 10,000 "worshipers") to VA, the McLean Bible Church in Vienna, VA according to the Hartford study now has over 12,500 members. FrancisDane ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 15:41, 12 January 2011 (UTC).
The French language link of this page actually links to "Lakewood Church". Is this appropriate? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Atticuslai ( talk • contribs) 20:40, June 5, 2007
Virtually the entire article is dedicated to criticism with only 2 sentences used as an introduction. Someone should start a radical clean-up of the article to expand it and balance opinions. 71.204.43.208 02:04, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
Maybe it's just easier to bash megachurches than to find balanced information... But could we please try to keep POV out of the information sections? "a person who combines flamboyant sermons with the organizational skills needed to turn weekly worship into a production number." Tell me this isn't biased. Having a service which is planned and runs to time doesn't make it a production number... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 123.100.101.26 ( talk) 04:05, 30 October 2007 (UTC) After my comments were deleted - Oops... sorry, thought that a counter example or (my goodness) balance was a GOOD thing on Wikipedia. Why isn't the church in Acts an example of e mega-church? Define 'flamboyant' preaching... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 123.100.101.26 ( talk) 03:06, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
To the unidentified commentator just ahead of me, have you ever been to one of the "services" at these so-called Churches? I have. They are production numbers that would make Radio City Music Hall blush. McLean Bible Church which is the one I went to with a friend does not perform weddings, baptisms or funerals. Hello? How can it be a Christian Church? FrancisDane ( talk) 15:38, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
I realize "church" almost without exception (except! perhaps among Christians!) denotes a Christian body... Church, however, does not exclude non-Christian bodies from the definition of "church" (perhaps on the basis of the original definition of ekklesia?)... so this seems to me to beg the question... what about non-Christian bodies who weekly have attendances in excess of 2k? The Belz Great Synagogue in Jerusalem, for example, comes to mind...and I have no doubt that any number of other synagogues, to say nothing of Hindu and Buddhist shrines, and possibly also muslim houses of prayer, see as many adherents in weekly attendance. If "megachurch" is an exclusively Christian term, this needs to be better clarified in the article, if not even within its lead... Tomer talk 08:14, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
Some authors have asserted that mega-churches are opposed to ecumenism, the movement dedicated to uniting churches. It would be interesting if the present article could look into these charges laid against mega-churches. [3] ADM ( talk) 20:51, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
I think the percentage of nondenominational churches is wrong. Go to the Hartford Seminary website HIRR. They list all the megachurches in the US by denomination. Off the top of my head I don't think that "most" are non-denominational but tied to the baptist, assemblies of God, etc. More and more of these mega churches are not liking the financial scrutiny of being part of a recognized denomination and are becoming non-denominational, meaning that there is no financial reporting of their activities to anyone. FrancisDane ( talk) 15:34, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
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here are a couple of links -
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-nigeria-megachurches-insight-idUSKCN0I104F20141012 https://www.csmonitor.com/World/Global-News/2015/0724/Asian-African-megachurches-overtaking-US-congregations https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2017/sep/11/eat-pray-live-lagos-nigeria-megachurches-redemption-camp 88.111.90.165 ( talk) 20:51, 10 November 2018 (UTC) EE
Niteshift36 ( talk · contribs) removed DaveDaRave19 ( talk · contribs)'s recent addition related to claims that some megachurch pastors promote prosperity gospel. It's a simple concept and it was missing. I agree that not all churches are involved in this activity, but certainly many of the largest do. If it needs to be re-written, re-write it, but its addition was useful. Walter Görlitz ( talk) 18:56, 30 March 2021 (UTC)