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Not sure which should be the preferred title but these appear to be synonymous. Sitush ( talk) 20:25, 18 April 2018 (UTC)
Okay keep it for now. Reference says the some Mech also called themselves mech but they were exactly same with Boro. It is matter of research why some Boro called themselves mech. Logical Man 2000 ( talk) 13:15, 9 May 2020 (UTC)
Some people also called themselves mech, it does't mean they didn't call themselves Boro. For example - Some Boro call themselves Assamese , it doesn't mean they don't calm themselves Boro. Mech was temporary name , It's ultimate truth. We are discussing about people, not about name. Mech people means Boro people, It's the reality. Logical Man 2000 ( talk) 13:21, 9 May 2020 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 07:54, 14 May 2019 (UTC)
@ Chaipau: You have added Bodo-Kachari instead Bodo. You have just made the Mech as father of All tribes. All Bodos aren't even Mech. Mech tribe was caste name because It's Hindu origin term . Even Kachari is also caste name because It's given by Hindus. Mech is name section of Bodos imposed by strangers who lived in undivided Goalpara to Mechi river in Past. Please rethink about your writing. You can find information about it in Hodgson. So, Bodo-Kachari is inappropriate . Instead It should be Mech is section of Bodo not All. Like I'm not Mech. My Family don't have Bathou. I've never seen Bathou before the age of Internet. I was always considered as Hindu. I'm not even Shankaria. Please rethink about term. Thanks PerfectingNEI ( talk) 22:10, 24 June 2019 (UTC)
Hogdson used Bodo. So did Grierson. Keep Bodo. Using Boro is WP:OR. Chaipau ( talk) 13:44, 7 May 2020 (UTC)
Chaipau, you have great habit of making things complicated. You are the one to claim all the fake things. Hodgson claim was surely not lie. Dimasa weren't even discoved then. He was talking about Kacharis (plain kachari). Dimasa were known as Hill kacharis at that time. Chaipau can you show me where people call themselves Mech ? Don't bring politics here. This is encyclopedia. You give example of WP:FRINGE but you are pushing POV and brining WP:FRINGE. If somebody don't call themselves Boro and call themselves mech then it's new discovery. There will be many reason behind it. If You'll find such case then you can create wikipedia page again. But historically, Mech was name imposed on Boro. This is what all the scholars write. Logical Man 2000 ( talk) 15:29, 7 May 2020 (UTC)
"This is not very clear for people unfamiliar with the local names of people and places. As he admits in the end, his way of seeing the “Bodos” is twofold: he starts by using “Bodo” to designate a wide range of people (“a numerous race”), then wonders if some others are not “Bodos in disguise”. He ends on a cautionary note and refrains from unmasking the dubious tribes, registering only the Mechs and Kacharis, which is indeed better from the present linguistic point of view. However, Hodgson does not cite any linguistic argument here. His approach cannot be taken as a classification, but rather traces more or less tightly linked circles with the Bodos in the center"
Do not merge: This has been partially discussed in other places. Chaipau ( talk) 23:46, 7 May 2020 (UTC)
Misuse of Government ST list and WP:FRINGE or WP:OR. Mech and Boro are synonymous. Logical Man 2000 ( talk) 04:34, 8 May 2020 (UTC)
Keep it for now
Logical Man 2000 ( talk) 13:11, 9 May 2020 (UTC)
Mech call themselves Bodo or Boro. [1] [2]
References
Reason- Brahma is paraphrasing Hogdson (not WP:RS). Jacquesson is quoting Hogdson (not endorsing him) - removed. Logical Man 2000 ( talk) 19:44, 8 May 2020 (UTC)
@ Chaipau: As he admits in the end, his way of seeing the “Bodos” is twofold: he starts by using “Bodo” to designate a wide range of people (“a numerous race”), then wonders if some others are not “Bodos in disguise”. He ends on a cautionary note and refrains from unmasking the dubious tribes, registering only the Mechs and Kacharis, which is indeed better from the present linguistic point of view.( Jaquesson 2008:21) . Either you don't understand properly or you revert without reading. I request you to go for WP:ANI intead of reverting cited content Logical Man 2000 ( talk) 21:03, 8 May 2020 (UTC)
Jaquesson says that use of Bodo for everyone isn't correct but use of Bodo for Mech and Kacharis is correct then he quote Hodgson. Please try to understand the content instead of wasting my time. Logical Man 2000 ( talk) 21:06, 8 May 2020 (UTC)
@ Chaipau: It's very simple. We aren't talking about Race. We are talking about people. Raj-era source aren't usefull but Raj-era works have been reviewed and reused. Leave about Raj-era scholars. Recent scholars from both Mech and Non-mech community have written that Mech call themselves Boro. Write it. It's simple. I've added 3,4 books written by Mech scholars. Add content from them. Add more books and content. Please don't waste time. Logical Man 2000 ( talk) 22:31, 8 May 2020 (UTC)
You can't mix up 21st century's mech with 18th century's Mech. You can't connect them if modern mech are different group. Hodgson book is part of Mech History who called themselves Bodo. Just like Ahom Buranji are part of Ahom History. I can also say - Why should we use Ahom Buranjis ?
Stop wasting time. Nobody can write anything without reference. Even Mech category was created by Britishers. Logical Man 2000 ( talk) 22:41, 8 May 2020 (UTC)
@ Logical Man 2000: That the Mech belongs in the Bodo-Kachari peoples group is not controversial—and it is mentioned in the first sentence itself. But are they the same as the Boro people? Even Endle does not think so. [1]. He lists Boro and the Mech separately, in the first and the third rows respectively in the table. So are you now claiming that the Mech have converted to Boro since Endle? That is not what we have seen from the census and other data. And you have not shown any reference to back your claim. Chaipau ( talk) 22:53, 8 May 2020 (UTC)
Why don't you read entire book ? This name was given by others. Mech means Boro of undivided Goalpara. Kachari (Boro) means Boro of Kamrup, Darrang and Nagaon. This is just census report. I think Goalpara was part of coochbehar. So, Mech was used. Logical Man 2000 ( talk) 22:59, 8 May 2020 (UTC)
You had removed many references before, claiming them Raj-era. Just check them. Mech is just a name given by others. You are trying to degrade Boro into Mech. Logical Man 2000 ( talk) 23:03, 8 May 2020 (UTC)
Dimasa have three certificate - Hojai , Barman , Dimasa. These are just certificates. Logical Man 2000 ( talk) 23:05, 8 May 2020 (UTC)
Please check their books . I'm giving you page numbers. I can't write so much using mobile.
(Hodgson 1847 ; P=105) ( Hodgson 1847 ; P=142) ( The Kacharis 1911 ; P= xv) ( Endle 1911; P=81 ) (Endle 1884, P=v-vi) Logical Man 2000 ( talk) 23:11, 8 May 2020 (UTC)
Hodgson had written many journals. Jaquesson analysed only last part of Koch,Bodo,Dhimal - in three parts. Logical Man 2000 ( talk) 23:15, 8 May 2020 (UTC)
You already know that Race concept don't exist now. Hodgson used Bodo or Bodo tribe and Bodo race to differentiate between tribe and race. Bodo and Boro have same pronunciation, clarified by later scholars. You are just wasting time. What author meant is understandable. Logical Man 2000 ( talk) 23:47, 8 May 2020 (UTC)
Bodo , Boro , Bara , Bodo-kachari , Boro-Kachari are same thing. Britishers tried to name the race using Bodo or Boro. Just like Assam is name after Ahom. Now ,Race concept is obsolete. So, Bodo linguistic group means everyone. Logical Man 2000 ( talk) 23:54, 8 May 2020 (UTC)
You already know but you're trying to waste time. Bodo = Boro. Alphabet isn't enough to represent Varnamala. This the reason modern scholars use Boro-Garo.
And Boro is better in phonetics. Logical Man 2000 ( talk) 23:57, 8 May 2020 (UTC)
I'm sorry if you don't understand English. Read entire page. Jaquesson says that use of Bodo for Kachari and Mech is correct then he prove his claim with citation from Hodgson. Hodgson had written only Bodo who were known as Mech and Kachari to others. If you have so much problem then change the sentence to Bodos (Boros) were known as Mech to Hindu. Problem solved. Logical Man 2000 ( talk) 08:32, 9 May 2020 (UTC)
Mech name is discovered as name imposed on Bodo (Boro) people. You can't deny the History. Logical Man 2000 ( talk) 08:34, 9 May 2020 (UTC)
Hodgson Bodo means Boro. Are you above all the scholars ? Please don't waste time. Jaquesson also clarify the pronunciation. Logical Man 2000 ( talk) 08:36, 9 May 2020 (UTC)
Mech is just a name given to Boros of Goalpara. It is well known fact. S.N. Wolfenden's hypothesis isn't supported by any other scholar. His hypothesis don't fall under the category of Boro-Garo language. His hypothesis is equivalent to Ahom hypothesis of Che-Rai-Doi for Charaideo. Logical Man 2000 ( talk) 12:42, 9 May 2020 (UTC)
Hodgson's Mech belongs to 1840s, Endle's Mech bongs to 1880s , S.N. Wolfenden's Mech belongs to 1930s. They might be different communities also. So, We have to write everything. Logical Man 2000 ( talk) 12:46, 9 May 2020 (UTC)
"In linguistic discussions held over recent years, the amalgamation between people and language has stopped. If local scholars, for “nationalistic” reasons often want to parade their language as evidence that they are the true people, the oldest ones etc., very few linguists and very few anthropologists would now induce “race” from “language” or vice-versa. This precaution is all the more necessary in North-East India, where matrilinearity (a favourite keyword of ancient classificatory anthropology) is widespread among people of very different languages; and where the court language of old, Ahom, completely disappeared when the speakers gradually shifted to Assamese."
@ Logical Man 2000: We have had an extensive discussion on the issue. There is no evidence that all Mech call themselves Boro, despite what Boro nationalist writers have written. Either not go there, or provide an NPOV version of what you want to say. Chaipau ( talk) 23:09, 11 May 2020 (UTC)
You're adding your POV. You are trying to change History. S.N. Wolfenden misunderstood the use of Mech for example - Kalicharan Mech. Don't try to distort anything. Today you can also call yourself Mech. It means you're different from the original Mech. Logical Man 2000 ( talk) 03:51, 12 May 2020 (UTC)
Please create a new page called Mech-Kachari people , then all the problem will be solved. Mech-Kachari are ST-Hill in Nagaland, So they identify separately. They can't leave Kachari word for ST-Hill , They can't join Boro for ST-Hill. Historically, Kachari and Mech are names of two different region. Mech aren't Kachari and Kachari aren't Mech in History but they are same people. Among them most people call themselves Boro. Other call themselves Sarania Kachari, Sonowal Kachari , Thengal Kachari , Mech Kachari , Dimasa Kachari etc Logical Man 2000 ( talk) 16:36, 12 May 2020 (UTC)
This will create confusion because Mech of Goalpara are Boro. This is the reason Kokrajhar Chirang are part of BTR. Just like Boro can't say that all Kachari means Boro and all Mech means Boro. Similarly, Nobody can use Kachari name and say they are entire Kachari. Similarly, Nobody can use Mech name and say they are entire Mech. Identity politics of Assam creates any arbitrary community. Government of Assam is willing to create some new community called Kachari-Muslim. Then surely their population will grow exponentially but they can never claim they were entire Kachari. Logical Man 2000 ( talk) 16:55, 12 May 2020 (UTC)
Historical Mech can be divided into Boro , Rajbongshi and Mech-Kachari. Logical Man 2000 ( talk) 17:05, 12 May 2020 (UTC)
![]() | This request for help from administrators has been answered. If you need more help or have additional questions, please reapply the {{admin help}} template, or contact the responding user(s) directly on their own user talk page. |
Mech and Boro are same people. Historically, Mech was name given by others to Boro people. If I add this fact then Chaipau forcefully revert my edit. I had also given citation. Today politically there is also Mech-Kachari group. All these facts are intact. But why Chaipau want to erase basic fact that People called Boros Mech>
-- 2402:3A80:162D:3EE5:C79A:59C1:58F6:236B ( talk) 03:00, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
I'm not a sock puppet, I'm trying to tell the truth. Assamese pages are controlled by single editor Chaipau and he contact Admins to block others. 21:49, 5 June 2020 (UTC)
@ Eulerfan1999: Please discuss here. Please also note this: [2]. Chaipau ( talk) 21:13, 15 February 2021 (UTC)
![]() | This article was nominated for deletion on 5 May 2020. The result of the discussion was keep. |
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
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Not sure which should be the preferred title but these appear to be synonymous. Sitush ( talk) 20:25, 18 April 2018 (UTC)
Okay keep it for now. Reference says the some Mech also called themselves mech but they were exactly same with Boro. It is matter of research why some Boro called themselves mech. Logical Man 2000 ( talk) 13:15, 9 May 2020 (UTC)
Some people also called themselves mech, it does't mean they didn't call themselves Boro. For example - Some Boro call themselves Assamese , it doesn't mean they don't calm themselves Boro. Mech was temporary name , It's ultimate truth. We are discussing about people, not about name. Mech people means Boro people, It's the reality. Logical Man 2000 ( talk) 13:21, 9 May 2020 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 07:54, 14 May 2019 (UTC)
@ Chaipau: You have added Bodo-Kachari instead Bodo. You have just made the Mech as father of All tribes. All Bodos aren't even Mech. Mech tribe was caste name because It's Hindu origin term . Even Kachari is also caste name because It's given by Hindus. Mech is name section of Bodos imposed by strangers who lived in undivided Goalpara to Mechi river in Past. Please rethink about your writing. You can find information about it in Hodgson. So, Bodo-Kachari is inappropriate . Instead It should be Mech is section of Bodo not All. Like I'm not Mech. My Family don't have Bathou. I've never seen Bathou before the age of Internet. I was always considered as Hindu. I'm not even Shankaria. Please rethink about term. Thanks PerfectingNEI ( talk) 22:10, 24 June 2019 (UTC)
Hogdson used Bodo. So did Grierson. Keep Bodo. Using Boro is WP:OR. Chaipau ( talk) 13:44, 7 May 2020 (UTC)
Chaipau, you have great habit of making things complicated. You are the one to claim all the fake things. Hodgson claim was surely not lie. Dimasa weren't even discoved then. He was talking about Kacharis (plain kachari). Dimasa were known as Hill kacharis at that time. Chaipau can you show me where people call themselves Mech ? Don't bring politics here. This is encyclopedia. You give example of WP:FRINGE but you are pushing POV and brining WP:FRINGE. If somebody don't call themselves Boro and call themselves mech then it's new discovery. There will be many reason behind it. If You'll find such case then you can create wikipedia page again. But historically, Mech was name imposed on Boro. This is what all the scholars write. Logical Man 2000 ( talk) 15:29, 7 May 2020 (UTC)
"This is not very clear for people unfamiliar with the local names of people and places. As he admits in the end, his way of seeing the “Bodos” is twofold: he starts by using “Bodo” to designate a wide range of people (“a numerous race”), then wonders if some others are not “Bodos in disguise”. He ends on a cautionary note and refrains from unmasking the dubious tribes, registering only the Mechs and Kacharis, which is indeed better from the present linguistic point of view. However, Hodgson does not cite any linguistic argument here. His approach cannot be taken as a classification, but rather traces more or less tightly linked circles with the Bodos in the center"
Do not merge: This has been partially discussed in other places. Chaipau ( talk) 23:46, 7 May 2020 (UTC)
Misuse of Government ST list and WP:FRINGE or WP:OR. Mech and Boro are synonymous. Logical Man 2000 ( talk) 04:34, 8 May 2020 (UTC)
Keep it for now
Logical Man 2000 ( talk) 13:11, 9 May 2020 (UTC)
Mech call themselves Bodo or Boro. [1] [2]
References
Reason- Brahma is paraphrasing Hogdson (not WP:RS). Jacquesson is quoting Hogdson (not endorsing him) - removed. Logical Man 2000 ( talk) 19:44, 8 May 2020 (UTC)
@ Chaipau: As he admits in the end, his way of seeing the “Bodos” is twofold: he starts by using “Bodo” to designate a wide range of people (“a numerous race”), then wonders if some others are not “Bodos in disguise”. He ends on a cautionary note and refrains from unmasking the dubious tribes, registering only the Mechs and Kacharis, which is indeed better from the present linguistic point of view.( Jaquesson 2008:21) . Either you don't understand properly or you revert without reading. I request you to go for WP:ANI intead of reverting cited content Logical Man 2000 ( talk) 21:03, 8 May 2020 (UTC)
Jaquesson says that use of Bodo for everyone isn't correct but use of Bodo for Mech and Kacharis is correct then he quote Hodgson. Please try to understand the content instead of wasting my time. Logical Man 2000 ( talk) 21:06, 8 May 2020 (UTC)
@ Chaipau: It's very simple. We aren't talking about Race. We are talking about people. Raj-era source aren't usefull but Raj-era works have been reviewed and reused. Leave about Raj-era scholars. Recent scholars from both Mech and Non-mech community have written that Mech call themselves Boro. Write it. It's simple. I've added 3,4 books written by Mech scholars. Add content from them. Add more books and content. Please don't waste time. Logical Man 2000 ( talk) 22:31, 8 May 2020 (UTC)
You can't mix up 21st century's mech with 18th century's Mech. You can't connect them if modern mech are different group. Hodgson book is part of Mech History who called themselves Bodo. Just like Ahom Buranji are part of Ahom History. I can also say - Why should we use Ahom Buranjis ?
Stop wasting time. Nobody can write anything without reference. Even Mech category was created by Britishers. Logical Man 2000 ( talk) 22:41, 8 May 2020 (UTC)
@ Logical Man 2000: That the Mech belongs in the Bodo-Kachari peoples group is not controversial—and it is mentioned in the first sentence itself. But are they the same as the Boro people? Even Endle does not think so. [1]. He lists Boro and the Mech separately, in the first and the third rows respectively in the table. So are you now claiming that the Mech have converted to Boro since Endle? That is not what we have seen from the census and other data. And you have not shown any reference to back your claim. Chaipau ( talk) 22:53, 8 May 2020 (UTC)
Why don't you read entire book ? This name was given by others. Mech means Boro of undivided Goalpara. Kachari (Boro) means Boro of Kamrup, Darrang and Nagaon. This is just census report. I think Goalpara was part of coochbehar. So, Mech was used. Logical Man 2000 ( talk) 22:59, 8 May 2020 (UTC)
You had removed many references before, claiming them Raj-era. Just check them. Mech is just a name given by others. You are trying to degrade Boro into Mech. Logical Man 2000 ( talk) 23:03, 8 May 2020 (UTC)
Dimasa have three certificate - Hojai , Barman , Dimasa. These are just certificates. Logical Man 2000 ( talk) 23:05, 8 May 2020 (UTC)
Please check their books . I'm giving you page numbers. I can't write so much using mobile.
(Hodgson 1847 ; P=105) ( Hodgson 1847 ; P=142) ( The Kacharis 1911 ; P= xv) ( Endle 1911; P=81 ) (Endle 1884, P=v-vi) Logical Man 2000 ( talk) 23:11, 8 May 2020 (UTC)
Hodgson had written many journals. Jaquesson analysed only last part of Koch,Bodo,Dhimal - in three parts. Logical Man 2000 ( talk) 23:15, 8 May 2020 (UTC)
You already know that Race concept don't exist now. Hodgson used Bodo or Bodo tribe and Bodo race to differentiate between tribe and race. Bodo and Boro have same pronunciation, clarified by later scholars. You are just wasting time. What author meant is understandable. Logical Man 2000 ( talk) 23:47, 8 May 2020 (UTC)
Bodo , Boro , Bara , Bodo-kachari , Boro-Kachari are same thing. Britishers tried to name the race using Bodo or Boro. Just like Assam is name after Ahom. Now ,Race concept is obsolete. So, Bodo linguistic group means everyone. Logical Man 2000 ( talk) 23:54, 8 May 2020 (UTC)
You already know but you're trying to waste time. Bodo = Boro. Alphabet isn't enough to represent Varnamala. This the reason modern scholars use Boro-Garo.
And Boro is better in phonetics. Logical Man 2000 ( talk) 23:57, 8 May 2020 (UTC)
I'm sorry if you don't understand English. Read entire page. Jaquesson says that use of Bodo for Kachari and Mech is correct then he prove his claim with citation from Hodgson. Hodgson had written only Bodo who were known as Mech and Kachari to others. If you have so much problem then change the sentence to Bodos (Boros) were known as Mech to Hindu. Problem solved. Logical Man 2000 ( talk) 08:32, 9 May 2020 (UTC)
Mech name is discovered as name imposed on Bodo (Boro) people. You can't deny the History. Logical Man 2000 ( talk) 08:34, 9 May 2020 (UTC)
Hodgson Bodo means Boro. Are you above all the scholars ? Please don't waste time. Jaquesson also clarify the pronunciation. Logical Man 2000 ( talk) 08:36, 9 May 2020 (UTC)
Mech is just a name given to Boros of Goalpara. It is well known fact. S.N. Wolfenden's hypothesis isn't supported by any other scholar. His hypothesis don't fall under the category of Boro-Garo language. His hypothesis is equivalent to Ahom hypothesis of Che-Rai-Doi for Charaideo. Logical Man 2000 ( talk) 12:42, 9 May 2020 (UTC)
Hodgson's Mech belongs to 1840s, Endle's Mech bongs to 1880s , S.N. Wolfenden's Mech belongs to 1930s. They might be different communities also. So, We have to write everything. Logical Man 2000 ( talk) 12:46, 9 May 2020 (UTC)
"In linguistic discussions held over recent years, the amalgamation between people and language has stopped. If local scholars, for “nationalistic” reasons often want to parade their language as evidence that they are the true people, the oldest ones etc., very few linguists and very few anthropologists would now induce “race” from “language” or vice-versa. This precaution is all the more necessary in North-East India, where matrilinearity (a favourite keyword of ancient classificatory anthropology) is widespread among people of very different languages; and where the court language of old, Ahom, completely disappeared when the speakers gradually shifted to Assamese."
@ Logical Man 2000: We have had an extensive discussion on the issue. There is no evidence that all Mech call themselves Boro, despite what Boro nationalist writers have written. Either not go there, or provide an NPOV version of what you want to say. Chaipau ( talk) 23:09, 11 May 2020 (UTC)
You're adding your POV. You are trying to change History. S.N. Wolfenden misunderstood the use of Mech for example - Kalicharan Mech. Don't try to distort anything. Today you can also call yourself Mech. It means you're different from the original Mech. Logical Man 2000 ( talk) 03:51, 12 May 2020 (UTC)
Please create a new page called Mech-Kachari people , then all the problem will be solved. Mech-Kachari are ST-Hill in Nagaland, So they identify separately. They can't leave Kachari word for ST-Hill , They can't join Boro for ST-Hill. Historically, Kachari and Mech are names of two different region. Mech aren't Kachari and Kachari aren't Mech in History but they are same people. Among them most people call themselves Boro. Other call themselves Sarania Kachari, Sonowal Kachari , Thengal Kachari , Mech Kachari , Dimasa Kachari etc Logical Man 2000 ( talk) 16:36, 12 May 2020 (UTC)
This will create confusion because Mech of Goalpara are Boro. This is the reason Kokrajhar Chirang are part of BTR. Just like Boro can't say that all Kachari means Boro and all Mech means Boro. Similarly, Nobody can use Kachari name and say they are entire Kachari. Similarly, Nobody can use Mech name and say they are entire Mech. Identity politics of Assam creates any arbitrary community. Government of Assam is willing to create some new community called Kachari-Muslim. Then surely their population will grow exponentially but they can never claim they were entire Kachari. Logical Man 2000 ( talk) 16:55, 12 May 2020 (UTC)
Historical Mech can be divided into Boro , Rajbongshi and Mech-Kachari. Logical Man 2000 ( talk) 17:05, 12 May 2020 (UTC)
![]() | This request for help from administrators has been answered. If you need more help or have additional questions, please reapply the {{admin help}} template, or contact the responding user(s) directly on their own user talk page. |
Mech and Boro are same people. Historically, Mech was name given by others to Boro people. If I add this fact then Chaipau forcefully revert my edit. I had also given citation. Today politically there is also Mech-Kachari group. All these facts are intact. But why Chaipau want to erase basic fact that People called Boros Mech>
-- 2402:3A80:162D:3EE5:C79A:59C1:58F6:236B ( talk) 03:00, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
I'm not a sock puppet, I'm trying to tell the truth. Assamese pages are controlled by single editor Chaipau and he contact Admins to block others. 21:49, 5 June 2020 (UTC)
@ Eulerfan1999: Please discuss here. Please also note this: [2]. Chaipau ( talk) 21:13, 15 February 2021 (UTC)