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I've added two more sources. So now it has citations to independent articles from Dr. Dobbs Journal, LWN.net, itWorld and tvTelecom, along with one other independent cite. They were described by one helpful person on #wikipedia-en-help as 4 "gold-standard-in-depth-sources". They span a period of 9 months. I think that qualifies as wp:notability ★NealMcB★ ( talk) 19:05, 20 July 2015 (UTC)
It's a bit small, I'm not sure if there is anything that can be done to make it a bit bigger so it fills out the box? 185.112.0.202 ( talk) 10:51, 7 September 2018 (UTC)
I've added some information about matrix.org's recent breach.
While it isn't related to the protocol itself, I think it's worth mentioning as this does affect the matrix ecosystem as a whole.
On a more general note, should information about matrix.org be posted here?
I don't think matrix.org is notable enough to receive its own page.
GautamC129 (
talk)
02:22, 13 April 2019 (UTC)
I'm concerned that the current text on this page confuses the Matrix protocol (the topic of the page), and various integrations that the Riot app (the flagship app using Matrix) has with other systems that are not part of the Matrix protocol. For example, Riot integrates with Jitsi Meet to provide audio/ video conferencing, and JM does use WebRTC, but AFAIK WebRTC is not part of the Matrix protocol itself. -- Danylstrype ( talk) 12:33, 22 May 2020 (UTC)
@ Marviiin wanted to remove the stylized [matrix] from the lede, but due to apparent conflict of interest I thought this could use discussion. I see File:Matrix logo.svg uses this stylization. With a quick web search, heiCHAT ( Heidelberg University) uses this stylization. I recall seeing the brackets associated elsewhere too, but don't have references available right now. Per MOS:TMSTYLE, I think it's appropriate to keep the stylized version. 84.250.17.211 ( talk) 20:20, 22 July 2020 (UTC)
[matrix]
[matrix]
VectorEmbeddedPage.js
seems to display
alt text [matrix], even if what you said is true. I see that's also the case on the Element page you linked to. And yes, I linked to both commits appropriately; thanks for finding and linking to a pull request. The Git log graph actually looks like so:
* 264bce7c Merge branch 'tmp1' into develop |\ | * 0ada7b5d Update i18n | * 3e37f21e Revert "[matrix]" to "Matrix" | * 96f0d3a0 Capitalize and fix [matrix] [...] |/ / * | 398033e7 Merge pull request #14572 from vector-im/t3chguy/devdep * | 398033e7 Merge pull request #14572 from vector-im/t3chguy/devdep |\ \ | |/ |/| | * d328cab5 Move dev dep to the right place |/ * da7550e0 Merge pull request #14552 from vector-im/dependabot/npm_and_yarn/lodash-4.17.19Both were merged, though that's irrelevant WP:OR here from me. 92.234.32.44 geolocates to the UK. 84.250.17.211 ( talk) 22:08, 24 July 2020 (UTC)
[matrix]in title and alt text. As far as I'm aware, this is a primary/secondary source too.
Matrixis still dominant on web searches. 84.250.17.211 ( talk) 01:17, 26 July 2020 (UTC)
Okay. So it seems to me to be clear that the primary sources (official website, Element and @ Marviiin here) has referenced the unstylized name to be canonical (particularly that GitHub pull request comment & commit). I largely agree with @ Dexxor's comment where transcriptions of logos should go. I also agree with @ K4rolB's comments that many of those examples I gave could constitute as WP:OR in those articles (except for capitalization). But here, we have an example of primary/secondary source(s) formerly saying [matrix], later changed/fixed to Matrix, and at least one third-party source mentioning [matrix] once. I note generally Wikipedia articles should be built on what third-party sources say about a subject, not what primary sources want to say about themselves; most of the references in the article use Matrix, not [matrix]. Is it appropriate to start a larger WP:RFC for this, or should we consider a third-party source such as Heidelberg University page as unreliable and proceed with removing the stylized name from the article? Alternative options (for an RFC) would be an option to say "sometimes stylized as", or "sometimes incorrectly stylized as". The lattermost statement could be referenced to the self-published GitHub pull request comment, at best (which is also not a reliable reference for this article imo). 84.250.17.211 ( talk) 04:40, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
sometimes, seems sensible and neutral. I found it a bit difficult to propose a WP:RFCNEUTRAL question here. I'm not opposed to starting an RFC, so I've left the
{{
Disputed inline}}
there for now. A proposed neutral question (without options to choose from) for an RFC could be: Should this article's lede mention [matrix]?, or perhaps less confusingly, Do you support the inclusion of [matrix] as a stylized name in this article?
84.250.17.211 (
talk)
01:30, 26 July 2020 (UTC)Any reliable reference for the date of introduction?
Special:Diff/897572769 changed it to be different than what the reference stated; I've tagged {{
Failed verification}}
appropriately. Pinging @
Marviiin if he knows more.
84.250.17.211 (
talk)
04:47, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
Sept 3rd 2014, as per https://matrix.org/blog/2014/09/03/welcome-to-the-matrix-blog, also corroborated via https://www.computerworld.com/article/2694500/matrix-wants-to-smash-the-walled-gardens-of-messaging.html Marviiin ( talk) 15:03, 2 August 2020 (UTC)
Maybe this article should tell something about the performance and scalability issues of the current implementations of Matrix, but I am not sure if there are much or any good, reliable sources about that. -- ilmaisin ( talk) 21:25, 26 October 2020 (UTC)
Perhaps for the "History" section? From Thunderbird team outlines plans for the email client:
-- Mortense ( talk) 21:08, 6 June 2021 (UTC)
@ David Eppstein: I'm not sure as to the best way to include this in the article prose (which is in rather poor shape) but the underlying Matrix protocol is a directed acyclic graph as described in the Matrix spec here. Elli ( talk | contribs) 19:34, 2 October 2022 (UTC)
User:Pppery You seem to have removed all clients [1]. Note that many of those already had a Wikipedia article, while others may be considered notable. Many similar articles have a similar listing of apps which support said protocol. All you specified as a reason was the blanket claim "Wikipedia is not a directory" that I contest would apply here at all. Would you rather a new article for comparison of matrix clients and servers be created instead? (fixed my typo) bkil ( talk) 18:35, 10 June 2024 (UTC)
I fail to follow your aim with such edits. Is your intention to eventually remove all other instances of such tables throughout Wikipedia? Telegram (messaging service)#Clients, ICQ#Clients, OSCAR protocol#Implementations, ActivityPub#Software using ActivityPub, QUIC#Source code (edit: extended list) - bkil ( talk) 19:50, 10 June 2024 (UTC)
We have quite a few articles for "Comparison of features of apps implementing X" already. Why would you find a Matrix specific one inappropriate? Surely not all existing Matrix clients & servers are notable, but quite a few would probably qualify, and the notability criteria for an item within a list is also lower than for articles. - bkil ( talk) 19:50, 10 June 2024 (UTC)
Really unhappy with the removal of the table which I found highly informative and helpful in getting an understanding of available options and their status. The given argument of "Wikipedia is not a directory" does not seem convincing. What harm is done by the table? It added great value to the WP article which now is a lot more uninformative. What's the rationale here? Fantasiasod ( talk) 11:51, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
how to change life to poar people he very sad all the time all the years we shod not happy but still smil but de smile is fake 103.148.155.149 ( talk) 12:16, 13 June 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Matrix (protocol) article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
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Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | The following Wikipedia contributors may be personally or professionally connected to the subject of this article. Relevant policies and guidelines may include
conflict of interest and
neutral point of view. Their edits to this article were last checked for neutrality on 03:39, 25 July 2020 (UTC) by 84.250.17.211 ( talk).
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![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
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I've added two more sources. So now it has citations to independent articles from Dr. Dobbs Journal, LWN.net, itWorld and tvTelecom, along with one other independent cite. They were described by one helpful person on #wikipedia-en-help as 4 "gold-standard-in-depth-sources". They span a period of 9 months. I think that qualifies as wp:notability ★NealMcB★ ( talk) 19:05, 20 July 2015 (UTC)
It's a bit small, I'm not sure if there is anything that can be done to make it a bit bigger so it fills out the box? 185.112.0.202 ( talk) 10:51, 7 September 2018 (UTC)
I've added some information about matrix.org's recent breach.
While it isn't related to the protocol itself, I think it's worth mentioning as this does affect the matrix ecosystem as a whole.
On a more general note, should information about matrix.org be posted here?
I don't think matrix.org is notable enough to receive its own page.
GautamC129 (
talk)
02:22, 13 April 2019 (UTC)
I'm concerned that the current text on this page confuses the Matrix protocol (the topic of the page), and various integrations that the Riot app (the flagship app using Matrix) has with other systems that are not part of the Matrix protocol. For example, Riot integrates with Jitsi Meet to provide audio/ video conferencing, and JM does use WebRTC, but AFAIK WebRTC is not part of the Matrix protocol itself. -- Danylstrype ( talk) 12:33, 22 May 2020 (UTC)
@ Marviiin wanted to remove the stylized [matrix] from the lede, but due to apparent conflict of interest I thought this could use discussion. I see File:Matrix logo.svg uses this stylization. With a quick web search, heiCHAT ( Heidelberg University) uses this stylization. I recall seeing the brackets associated elsewhere too, but don't have references available right now. Per MOS:TMSTYLE, I think it's appropriate to keep the stylized version. 84.250.17.211 ( talk) 20:20, 22 July 2020 (UTC)
[matrix]
[matrix]
VectorEmbeddedPage.js
seems to display
alt text [matrix], even if what you said is true. I see that's also the case on the Element page you linked to. And yes, I linked to both commits appropriately; thanks for finding and linking to a pull request. The Git log graph actually looks like so:
* 264bce7c Merge branch 'tmp1' into develop |\ | * 0ada7b5d Update i18n | * 3e37f21e Revert "[matrix]" to "Matrix" | * 96f0d3a0 Capitalize and fix [matrix] [...] |/ / * | 398033e7 Merge pull request #14572 from vector-im/t3chguy/devdep * | 398033e7 Merge pull request #14572 from vector-im/t3chguy/devdep |\ \ | |/ |/| | * d328cab5 Move dev dep to the right place |/ * da7550e0 Merge pull request #14552 from vector-im/dependabot/npm_and_yarn/lodash-4.17.19Both were merged, though that's irrelevant WP:OR here from me. 92.234.32.44 geolocates to the UK. 84.250.17.211 ( talk) 22:08, 24 July 2020 (UTC)
[matrix]in title and alt text. As far as I'm aware, this is a primary/secondary source too.
Matrixis still dominant on web searches. 84.250.17.211 ( talk) 01:17, 26 July 2020 (UTC)
Okay. So it seems to me to be clear that the primary sources (official website, Element and @ Marviiin here) has referenced the unstylized name to be canonical (particularly that GitHub pull request comment & commit). I largely agree with @ Dexxor's comment where transcriptions of logos should go. I also agree with @ K4rolB's comments that many of those examples I gave could constitute as WP:OR in those articles (except for capitalization). But here, we have an example of primary/secondary source(s) formerly saying [matrix], later changed/fixed to Matrix, and at least one third-party source mentioning [matrix] once. I note generally Wikipedia articles should be built on what third-party sources say about a subject, not what primary sources want to say about themselves; most of the references in the article use Matrix, not [matrix]. Is it appropriate to start a larger WP:RFC for this, or should we consider a third-party source such as Heidelberg University page as unreliable and proceed with removing the stylized name from the article? Alternative options (for an RFC) would be an option to say "sometimes stylized as", or "sometimes incorrectly stylized as". The lattermost statement could be referenced to the self-published GitHub pull request comment, at best (which is also not a reliable reference for this article imo). 84.250.17.211 ( talk) 04:40, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
sometimes, seems sensible and neutral. I found it a bit difficult to propose a WP:RFCNEUTRAL question here. I'm not opposed to starting an RFC, so I've left the
{{
Disputed inline}}
there for now. A proposed neutral question (without options to choose from) for an RFC could be: Should this article's lede mention [matrix]?, or perhaps less confusingly, Do you support the inclusion of [matrix] as a stylized name in this article?
84.250.17.211 (
talk)
01:30, 26 July 2020 (UTC)Any reliable reference for the date of introduction?
Special:Diff/897572769 changed it to be different than what the reference stated; I've tagged {{
Failed verification}}
appropriately. Pinging @
Marviiin if he knows more.
84.250.17.211 (
talk)
04:47, 25 July 2020 (UTC)
Sept 3rd 2014, as per https://matrix.org/blog/2014/09/03/welcome-to-the-matrix-blog, also corroborated via https://www.computerworld.com/article/2694500/matrix-wants-to-smash-the-walled-gardens-of-messaging.html Marviiin ( talk) 15:03, 2 August 2020 (UTC)
Maybe this article should tell something about the performance and scalability issues of the current implementations of Matrix, but I am not sure if there are much or any good, reliable sources about that. -- ilmaisin ( talk) 21:25, 26 October 2020 (UTC)
Perhaps for the "History" section? From Thunderbird team outlines plans for the email client:
-- Mortense ( talk) 21:08, 6 June 2021 (UTC)
@ David Eppstein: I'm not sure as to the best way to include this in the article prose (which is in rather poor shape) but the underlying Matrix protocol is a directed acyclic graph as described in the Matrix spec here. Elli ( talk | contribs) 19:34, 2 October 2022 (UTC)
User:Pppery You seem to have removed all clients [1]. Note that many of those already had a Wikipedia article, while others may be considered notable. Many similar articles have a similar listing of apps which support said protocol. All you specified as a reason was the blanket claim "Wikipedia is not a directory" that I contest would apply here at all. Would you rather a new article for comparison of matrix clients and servers be created instead? (fixed my typo) bkil ( talk) 18:35, 10 June 2024 (UTC)
I fail to follow your aim with such edits. Is your intention to eventually remove all other instances of such tables throughout Wikipedia? Telegram (messaging service)#Clients, ICQ#Clients, OSCAR protocol#Implementations, ActivityPub#Software using ActivityPub, QUIC#Source code (edit: extended list) - bkil ( talk) 19:50, 10 June 2024 (UTC)
We have quite a few articles for "Comparison of features of apps implementing X" already. Why would you find a Matrix specific one inappropriate? Surely not all existing Matrix clients & servers are notable, but quite a few would probably qualify, and the notability criteria for an item within a list is also lower than for articles. - bkil ( talk) 19:50, 10 June 2024 (UTC)
Really unhappy with the removal of the table which I found highly informative and helpful in getting an understanding of available options and their status. The given argument of "Wikipedia is not a directory" does not seem convincing. What harm is done by the table? It added great value to the WP article which now is a lot more uninformative. What's the rationale here? Fantasiasod ( talk) 11:51, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
how to change life to poar people he very sad all the time all the years we shod not happy but still smil but de smile is fake 103.148.155.149 ( talk) 12:16, 13 June 2024 (UTC)