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Erm, HRE/Pax, Zmajević family was from Perast, they were Catholic, Andrija was the Archbishop of Bar etc. Here's a nice source: [1]
Po završetku školovanja u Kongregaciji za propagandu vere u Rimu[3], gde je stekao zvanje doktora teologije i filozofije, Andrija Zmajević se vratio u Perast. Od 1656. do 1671. bio je opat sv. Đorđa i peraški župnik, a 1664. dobio je funkciju vikara crkve u Budvi i zvanje komesara Svete stolice. Papa Klement X imenovao ga je 1671. za nadbiskupa barskog i "primasa Kraljevstva Srbije".
If all of that doesn't qualify him as outright Croat, no sources I found can qualify him as Serb either (personally, I consider most of "Serb catholic" theories bullshit crank). I suggest you remove the ethnic designation altogether from the articles.
Duja
15:08, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, yeah - I was just reverting what I classified as Afrika paprika's bad faith editing. I just took the fact that his uncle was a famous Serbian Barroque poet.
Classifying him outright an ethnic Croat would be just if we classify Macedonians & Montenegrins because of their religion, Serbs. AFAIC, the Croatian claim on southern Dalmatia (particularely the Bay of Kotor) is much like the Serbian Radical Party's claim on Macedonia. Many Croatian historians errorously consider the Bay of Kotor as strictly ethnicly Croat up to the 20th century; when AFAIC, Catholics were in a minority. Additionally, the whole thing is based on the sole factor of religion - that they were Roman Catholic. There is a very small minority (or no) Catholic Bokelji that attained a strong Croatian national identity, compared to those who had no national affilation (the majority) or even the very few that "adopted Serbdom", to use the phrase.
I think about adding "Croatian", but I have no idea how to really put it. I don't want to make it seem like we was a Croatian, nor of ethnic Croat origins... -- PaxEquilibrium 10:30, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
I found out that they were "victims" of the Catholic conversions. Apparently, Andrija Zmajević was a famous Serbian writer that identified himself as such. The family's descendant - Vincent Zmajevic (1712-1745) was a stalwart anti-Orthodox and kept Orthodox activity in chains and despite that, kept his Serbian identity. Although, there is nothing that really puts Matija Zmajevic as a "Serb" himself, but possibly only of Serb origins. As far as I found out, their origin (before the catholic conversions) lies in the Njegusi in Old Montenegro. -- PaxEquilibrium 17:36, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
Enciklopedija.hr is not RS. Please remove it. Read on MOS:Lead. No ethnicity can be in the lead. Zmajevic indeed was a Russian admiral and that lead is proper. Sadkσ (talk is cheap) 01:18, 6 November 2019 (UTC)
Silverije I can't quite seem to figure what kind of a journal is this where Zdravka Zlodi published that article you recently cited ( https://www.bib.irb.hr/997537).
https://ru-san--sat-com.translate.goog/%D0%B8%D0%B7%D0%B4%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%B5%D0%BB%D1%8C%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%8F-%D0%B4%D0%B5%D1%8F%D1%82%D0%B5%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%BD%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%82%D1%8C/adriatic-news/?_x_tr_sch=http&_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp seems to indicate it's not a scholarly journal? I don't think we should use this, I can't even find an ISSN for it. -- Joy [shallot] ( talk) 12:53, 6 April 2022 (UTC)
An anonymous editor asked for a source for this term in [3] but it's in the Croatian Encyclopedia article that is referenced. :) -- Joy [shallot] ( talk) 18:45, 6 April 2022 (UTC)
Apparently there's another memorial somewhere: [4] Gråbergs Gråa Sång ( talk) 11:31, 9 April 2022 (UTC)
This Kako je Kolinda pokušala da obmane Putina isn't a WP:RS, but it was a little interesting. Gråbergs Gråa Sång ( talk) 11:50, 9 April 2022 (UTC)
od You will note, we do not call him Serbian, or Russian, or Croatian, or Montenegran, or Britsh. Slatersteven ( talk) 14:53, 9 April 2022 (UTC)
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Erm, HRE/Pax, Zmajević family was from Perast, they were Catholic, Andrija was the Archbishop of Bar etc. Here's a nice source: [1]
Po završetku školovanja u Kongregaciji za propagandu vere u Rimu[3], gde je stekao zvanje doktora teologije i filozofije, Andrija Zmajević se vratio u Perast. Od 1656. do 1671. bio je opat sv. Đorđa i peraški župnik, a 1664. dobio je funkciju vikara crkve u Budvi i zvanje komesara Svete stolice. Papa Klement X imenovao ga je 1671. za nadbiskupa barskog i "primasa Kraljevstva Srbije".
If all of that doesn't qualify him as outright Croat, no sources I found can qualify him as Serb either (personally, I consider most of "Serb catholic" theories bullshit crank). I suggest you remove the ethnic designation altogether from the articles.
Duja
15:08, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, yeah - I was just reverting what I classified as Afrika paprika's bad faith editing. I just took the fact that his uncle was a famous Serbian Barroque poet.
Classifying him outright an ethnic Croat would be just if we classify Macedonians & Montenegrins because of their religion, Serbs. AFAIC, the Croatian claim on southern Dalmatia (particularely the Bay of Kotor) is much like the Serbian Radical Party's claim on Macedonia. Many Croatian historians errorously consider the Bay of Kotor as strictly ethnicly Croat up to the 20th century; when AFAIC, Catholics were in a minority. Additionally, the whole thing is based on the sole factor of religion - that they were Roman Catholic. There is a very small minority (or no) Catholic Bokelji that attained a strong Croatian national identity, compared to those who had no national affilation (the majority) or even the very few that "adopted Serbdom", to use the phrase.
I think about adding "Croatian", but I have no idea how to really put it. I don't want to make it seem like we was a Croatian, nor of ethnic Croat origins... -- PaxEquilibrium 10:30, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
I found out that they were "victims" of the Catholic conversions. Apparently, Andrija Zmajević was a famous Serbian writer that identified himself as such. The family's descendant - Vincent Zmajevic (1712-1745) was a stalwart anti-Orthodox and kept Orthodox activity in chains and despite that, kept his Serbian identity. Although, there is nothing that really puts Matija Zmajevic as a "Serb" himself, but possibly only of Serb origins. As far as I found out, their origin (before the catholic conversions) lies in the Njegusi in Old Montenegro. -- PaxEquilibrium 17:36, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
Enciklopedija.hr is not RS. Please remove it. Read on MOS:Lead. No ethnicity can be in the lead. Zmajevic indeed was a Russian admiral and that lead is proper. Sadkσ (talk is cheap) 01:18, 6 November 2019 (UTC)
Silverije I can't quite seem to figure what kind of a journal is this where Zdravka Zlodi published that article you recently cited ( https://www.bib.irb.hr/997537).
https://ru-san--sat-com.translate.goog/%D0%B8%D0%B7%D0%B4%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%B5%D0%BB%D1%8C%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%8F-%D0%B4%D0%B5%D1%8F%D1%82%D0%B5%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%BD%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%82%D1%8C/adriatic-news/?_x_tr_sch=http&_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp seems to indicate it's not a scholarly journal? I don't think we should use this, I can't even find an ISSN for it. -- Joy [shallot] ( talk) 12:53, 6 April 2022 (UTC)
An anonymous editor asked for a source for this term in [3] but it's in the Croatian Encyclopedia article that is referenced. :) -- Joy [shallot] ( talk) 18:45, 6 April 2022 (UTC)
Apparently there's another memorial somewhere: [4] Gråbergs Gråa Sång ( talk) 11:31, 9 April 2022 (UTC)
This Kako je Kolinda pokušala da obmane Putina isn't a WP:RS, but it was a little interesting. Gråbergs Gråa Sång ( talk) 11:50, 9 April 2022 (UTC)
od You will note, we do not call him Serbian, or Russian, or Croatian, or Montenegran, or Britsh. Slatersteven ( talk) 14:53, 9 April 2022 (UTC)